What do you make of this thread on the official forum? On July 15, a dev posted asking for questions on CO's microtransactions model, promising they'd give an in depth reply soon and that he might even offer a response in a day or a week. The thread is now up to 4000+ posts and the Devs have not commented once in the thread. There's a lot of negative reactions in the thread, do you think they've just decided to ignore the issue altogether? Have they commented on microtransactions at all in the beta forums?

Here's a link to the thread:
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=23349

I think this is the biggest issue for MMORPGs currently. I don't like the idea of paying a subscription fee, which ostensibly is meant to pay for content updates and server upkeep, and then having to pay more for certain content. If it works for CO, it could become the norm for future MMOs, and I think it opens a can of worms for developers to find other ways to tack on "surcharges" in addition to subscription fees.

Here we go again, champions should just sell packs of cards to little kids for $5 a pack...then it will be ok. 

Originally posted by CayneJobb  I don't like the idea of paying a subscription fee, which ostensibly is meant to pay for content updates and server upkeep, and then having to pay more for certain content.

Already happening in some mmo's

WoW,EQ,EQ2 etc all have expansions you have to buy or you miss out on that content.

Originally posted by Leucrotta

Originally posted by CayneJobb  I don't like the idea of paying a subscription fee, which ostensibly is meant to pay for content updates and server upkeep, and then having to pay more for certain content.

 

Already happening in some mmo's

WoW,EQ,EQ2 etc all have expansions you have to buy or you miss out on that content.

Ignorance is bliss. Equating expansion packs (adding content to core game) to RMT item shop (removing content from core game). Hilarious. 

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Leucrotta

Originally posted by CayneJobb  I don't like the idea of paying a subscription fee, which ostensibly is meant to pay for content updates and server upkeep, and then having to pay more for certain content.

 

Already happening in some mmo's

WoW,EQ,EQ2 etc all have expansions you have to buy or you miss out on that content.

Ignorance is bliss. Equating expansion packs (adding content to core game) to RMT item shop (removing content from core game). Hilarious. 

its paying more for some content isnt it?  alot of mmos dont charge for their expansion like Lineage, lineage2, Eve etc

so what makes it much different then buy some content from a shop?

Expansions are kinda forced to buy or miss out, while fluff from a shop isnt needed.

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Leucrotta

Originally posted by CayneJobb  I don't like the idea of paying a subscription fee, which ostensibly is meant to pay for content updates and server upkeep, and then having to pay more for certain content.

 

Already happening in some mmo's

WoW,EQ,EQ2 etc all have expansions you have to buy or you miss out on that content.

Ignorance is bliss. Equating expansion packs (adding content to core game) to RMT item shop (removing content from core game). Hilarious. 

Please provide a link to where it says they are removing content from the game and putting it in MT
 

I'm not a fan of MTs with subs too but that's the trend.  People are slowly but surely finding MTs acceptable even if they are paying a subscription.  

But the CO critics seem to be most angry about this game going MT.  Those same critics are looking at SW:TOR and Aion.  SW:TOR is already on record saying there will be MTs.  Aion is made by NCSoft...if they haven't stated it already (I don't follow the game extensively) then you can probably bet it will happen in the near future.

The MT argument against CO is legitimate but it is also diminishing.  MTs are rarely the real reason for not liking this game.  Most people have a particular hatred towards the company, developer, genre or are upset the game doesn't match their individualistic vision.  They may just be tired of MMOs in general.  But instead of just moving on quietly, some find the need to vent about not liking CO or any other MMO when it may be simply they need a break from MMOs in general.

Originally posted by SpectralHunt

I'm not a fan of MTs with subs too but that's the trend.  People are slowly but surely finding MTs acceptable even if they are paying a subscription.  

But the CO critics seem to be most angry about this game going MT.  Those same critics are looking at SW:TOR and Aion.  SW:TOR is already on record saying there will be MTs.  Aion is made by NCSoft...if they haven't stated it already (I don't follow the game extensively) then you can probably bet it will happen in the near future.

The MT argument against CO is legitimate but it is also diminishing.  MTs are rarely the real reason for not liking this game.  Most people have a particular hatred towards the company, developer, genre or are upset the game doesn't match their individualistic vision.  They may just be tired of MMOs in general.  But instead of just moving on quietly, some find the need to vent about not liking CO or any other MMO when it may be simply they need a break from MMOs in general.

Ya, alot of games get boring after constent play, playing 5+hours everyday for 3months what do you expect?
 

Originally posted by 4Renziks

Originally posted by SpectralHunt

I'm not a fan of MTs with subs too but that's the trend.  People are slowly but surely finding MTs acceptable even if they are paying a subscription.  

But the CO critics seem to be most angry about this game going MT.  Those same critics are looking at SW:TOR and Aion.  SW:TOR is already on record saying there will be MTs.  Aion is made by NCSoft...if they haven't stated it already (I don't follow the game extensively) then you can probably bet it will happen in the near future.

The MT argument against CO is legitimate but it is also diminishing.  MTs are rarely the real reason for not liking this game.  Most people have a particular hatred towards the company, developer, genre or are upset the game doesn't match their individualistic vision.  They may just be tired of MMOs in general.  But instead of just moving on quietly, some find the need to vent about not liking CO or any other MMO when it may be simply they need a break from MMOs in general.

Ya, alot of games get boring after constent play, playing 5+hours everyday for 3months what do you expect?
 

That's the same question I'm asking anyone who dislikes CO for the gameplay.  Heck, any MMO.  But I am finding if you ask those same people again, you'll find a more real underlying reason for complaining, which I summed up.

 To 4renziks:

That's how RMT shops work I'm afraid. Have no doubt that the RMT shop will work in exactly the same manner in CO. 

Say you want a power and that power is both sold in the RMT shop and is a drop from an instance boss. Lets forget for a moment that the developers can make the instance boss drop a horrible grind so its even more enticing to go and buy the power. The fact remains that you can pay your way to basically not bother playing that specific dungeon (thus the remove content).

A more healthy approach (still greedy but better than a totally bad option) would be to buy an adventure pack, in other words buy to open a certain amount of content to be played.

To Spectralhunt:

The only reason (in my opinion) that the RMT shop is not available for review in the open "beta" is because the outcry would have been much much worse than it already is. As it stand now, a good portion of people will at least subscribe for a month, before they have the chance to experience how pervasive the RMT shop will be. 

Personally, the only reason I'm staying clear of CO is the RMT shop. The way these shops work ingame is counter beneficial to players from a design standpoint. And I fear that things will get worse if CO does not achieve the quota of subscriptions they are aiming for.

Originally posted by Xasapis

 To 4renziks:

That's how RMT shops work I'm afraid. Have no doubt that the RMT shop will work in exactly the same manner in CO. 

Say you want a power and that power is both sold in the RMT shop and is a drop from an instance boss. Lets forget for a moment that the developers can make the instance boss drop a horrible grind so its even more enticing to go and buy the power. The fact remains that you can pay your way to basically not bother playing that specific dungeon (thus the remove content).

A more healthy approach (still greedy but better than a totally bad option) would be to buy an adventure pack, in other words buy to open a certain amount of content to be played.

 

To Spectralhunt:

The only reason (in my opinion) that the RMT shop is not available for review in the open "beta" is because the outcry would have been much much worse than it already is. As it stand now, a good portion of people will at least subscribe for a month, before they have the chance to experience how pervasive the RMT shop will be. 

Personally, the only reason I'm staying clear of CO is the RMT shop. The way these shops work ingame is counter beneficial to players from a design standpoint. And I fear that things will get worse if CO does not achieve the quota of subscriptions they are aiming for.

You're nailing the issue here. Even so we don't know what they will do. We can suppose what they will likely do all day. In any event, if there is demand for it, the RMT will succeed. While I have never done it, the fact is, people buy gear, levels, etc.. with Cash all the time in multiple games. The demand is definately there. In this way, even though at first glance I find it distasteful, at least the money is going to the developer and not some sweat shop runner.
 

 Then I would have asked for a non RMT shop server, which is not going to happen. The people who want to buy their way into the game could stay in the "cheat mode enabled" servers, while the rest could play on "normal mode" servers instead.

Besides, just because gold sellers exist in every game, doesn't make it right for developers turning into one. Especially since they cashing in with a full subscription model in the first place.

Originally posted by Xasapis

To Spectralhunt:

The only reason (in my opinion) that the RMT shop is not available for review in the open "beta" is because the outcry would have been much much worse than it already is. As it stand now, a good portion of people will at least subscribe for a month, before they have the chance to experience how pervasive the RMT shop will be. 

Personally, the only reason I'm staying clear of CO is the RMT shop. The way these shops work ingame is counter beneficial to players from a design standpoint. And I fear that things will get worse if CO does not achieve the quota of subscriptions they are aiming for.

That's fair.  Here's the thing.  As it stands now, I find CO enjoyable without having any of the RMT items (if they do affect gameplay). So to me, it's worth the retail box and subscription.  Does that mean I will love CO till the end of time? Of course not.  I may be done with it in a few months.  I could play it for years.  The point is, as it stands now, to me it's worth the cost.

If CO isn't good enough to play as it stands now, it never will be for you.  

Originally posted by Xasapis

 Then I would have asked for a non RMT shop server, which is not going to happen. The people who want to buy their way into the game could stay in the "cheat mode enabled" servers, while the rest could play on "normal mode" servers instead.

Besides, just because gold sellers exist in every game, doesn't make it right for developers turning into one. Especially since they cashing in with a full subscription model in the first place.

Mind you, I still oppose RMTs but I wouldn't go as far as to say they are cheat mode.  Let's be honest here.  Gear difference is simply a matter of time.  Those who have more freetime can run raids constantly and therefore have the ability to gather said gear.  It does not make them inherently better players.  If I were a professional who makes a lot of money per hour then it would be logical to buy the same items instead of grinding it out because to that person, time is money.

Actually, developers have every right to try to make money off their game.  It's their game...  If they want to charge you by the minute, they can do so.  They are a business that is trying to make money.  You as the consumer have the right not to use their services if you think they've gone overboard.

What is unfair are gold sellers who profit from a game they didn't have a hand in developing.

 How much more pervasive do you think the RMT shop would have been if the outcry was not as strong as it is now? My guess is that they would have emulated the F2P games completely while strapping the subscription on top of that. If nothing else, this kind of negative buzz have a positive effect for the future CO players. For now.

I have a feeling that the naysayers are going to be very disappointed when they finally do release the MT shop and it has nothing but a few costume packs.

They never said that there absolutely will be game effecting items in the MT shop. They said that if they add them that they would available in the game as well. They have also said that they would not be selling items that upset the balance of the game. So sorry, no raid gear, no OP powers, no free XP or game currency. If you wanna be the biggest badass on the server then you're gonna have to work for it just like everyone else.

But who said that they wont tweaked the game to get players into the MT..There are not many honest companies out there..Sure you can have a sub..But if i was a owner of the said game..I will tweak the game just enough to get players in the MT..And it does not have to be urber stuff to get..So that puts the player in the game longer because it was tweaked and some what pushes the player to the MT..How Brilliant ! I am for hired!

I know I'm beating a dead horse by opening this thread, but I think it's important enough to still talk about.

For the record, Cryptic Studios stands alone (so far) as the only company confirmed to have a subscription and regular RMT for game content in the US market, for CoX, Champions and Star Trek Online. There is absolutely no other games that we know for sure is or will be using this sort of business model in the US. I admit it's quite possible that other companies are getting ready to do the same thing, but I suspect they are watching closely to see what happens with Champions Online first.

It is, of course, not at all the same as expansion packs as Leucrotta suggests. Cryptic has stated that they also already have plans for an expansion for CO, so that's entirely separate.
source: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=570736#post570736

WoW and its subscription-based cousins have microtransactions for non game-content things only, such as server transfers or name changes, etc. This is a different animal. They also have a handful of items obtainable through the TCGs, but these are not a core element of the game, they are obtained outside of the game, they are very minor items and there are only a few.

We currently do not know the business model to be used by SW:TOR. There was a mention by EA that SW:TOR would include microtransactions, however this was later debunked by Bioware's Sean Dahlberg. "This unfortunately was a big misunderstanding and I want to be clear: we have made no official statements about the business model for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™."
source: http://swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=9509

Aion is already confirmed to be a regular subscription-only game. I don't know why you think it makes a difference that it is by NCSoft. Just because it is an Asian company? Not even Asian companies are crazy enough to try to have a subscription AND an item mall in the same game in the US. All of NCSoft's other games are subscription-only in the US except for CoX (which is developed by Cryptic) and Guild Wars (which of course has no sub).

No matter what they sell in the store, its a big step in the wrong direction to have MT store in a game with monthly subscription.

If you want to sell stuff then fine! But then you have to lower the price for subscription or something. Cryptic (and SOE) is just being greedy and I hope people dont support this new buisness model.

Originally posted by CayneJobb

WoW and its subscription-based cousins have microtransactions for non game-content things only, such as server transfers or name changes, etc. This is a different animal. They also have a handful of items obtainable through the TCGs, but these are not a core element of the game, they are obtained outside of the game, they are very minor items and there are only a few.

Well they said that the MT items in CO won't be a core element of the game either. Why are you assuming otherwise?