Solid review. I take it the Lifetime Subscription offer is not for you?

Would you consider it if they increase content / make expansion quickly?

Edit: I loved COH until about 1-2 months later, then I found myself grinding for badges. I cancelled when I realized, " I am running around for mini titles?"

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

Solid review, definitely agree with most of your points (though never got past lvl 20 myself, too many alts...).

One thing I will say though is that a decent proportion of the negativity of your review revolves around issues of balance and competitiveness. Clearly you're approaching the game with a very PVP-centric perspective, and that's fine (I do enjoy PVP myself) but keep in mind that this is not, and has never been, the main direction of Cryptic's work. Just as with CoX, it's sorta been tacked on more as a fan service afterthought than the central focus of the game, probably once again with the intention of fleshing it out with later (paid) expansions.

With that in mind then, I would qualify my agreement with your review by saying that fans of PVP may be frustrated by having to go with cookie-cutter power sets in order to stand a fighting chance, but this will not be an issue for PVE fans (especially those who tend to play in groups rather than solo) - there's plenty to do, and plenty of viable powers to do it with, and against mobs the only thing your power choices will affect is the difficulty level of the game. If you're a diehard PVPer with a penchant for spandex, I'd say hold out for DCU which is (according to the hype) built around player hero vs villain conflict right out of the box.

 

I agree that PvP was what I had the most major issue with, and yes as a PvE game it probably doesn't get much better then CO.  Now for a slight down turn though, I think Cryptic has been planning PvP with Villains in the future...  as they've said already they already have 2 planned expansions and are working on the content.... the nemesis system, the one I love so much, could easily be flipped into a villain system.  Personally I think the Devs wanted to get the jump on DCUO so they've let PvP fall to the wayside until they can polish out the balance and maybe flip the switch so your nemesis can be a controllable PvP character later on.  Then again I could be wrong, but it just seems like such a setup.

 

To LoboMau:

The missions are not cookie cutter CoX,  I like the open missions style of CO, every now and then you'll get some surprise missions where they'll ask you to do something out of the ordinary.  Between the two I like COs missions a lot better.

 

What i find to be funny is that they have 2 expansions planned but they havent even finished and balance the final product. What i also find amazing is that they are basically fallowing COX footsteps. I was in COH Beta and it was a nightmare for though who didnt have high end graphics cards at first because of a serious memory leak etc.... They fixed it and even compensated some players with free game time woot woot i was one of them HEHE. Then COV came out and it was pimpin but the had originally planned it so you could got from good guy to bad buy and viceversa but it didnt make it in COV. Now they have the new expansion that allows you to make a hero go bad and a bad guy go good. I think CO is fallowing in COX footsteps in almost every respect. The arent having the exact same problems but close enough. They have the same basic set of NEW stuff compared to COX when they first released. They basically took an old game tried to make it diffrent enough with more stuff and are having the problems one would expect with a copycat. Content and balancing!!! PS. I am still trying to get in the patching thing is a genuing nightmare thank god I got a free beta key so I can maybe play before i have to preorder if i preorder!!!!

Originally posted by fansede

 Solid review. I take it the Lifetime Subscription offer is not for you?

Would you consider it if they increase content / make expansion quickly?

 

Edit: I loved COH until about 1-2 months later, then I found myself grinding for badges. I cancelled when I realized, " I am running around for mini titles?"

I would consider the lifetime sub if they didn't make you buy it before the game actually launched.  The should offer the lifetime sub within at least the first 6 months.  Noone will enjoy the lifetime sub if something happens and the population drops, nor will they like it if the next content update destroys the balance or gameplay.  The first few months of an MMORPG are critical.  The launch itself might be good enough, but its what comes directly after launch I'm worried about.

@ Jsand199:  

Yes some quests are repeatable, not all of them.  The majority of repeatable quests don't follow a particular story line... for instance in the starting area of canada theres a guy that you have to escort to safety.  You can do that quest as many times as you want (although it doesn't yield that much XP)  but you can find similar quests in all areas... roughly at all levels.

As stated though, their way of "dynamic questing" when civilians come up to you and tell you about a mission,  in the Desert those missions are repeatable as you will find a number of quest giving civilians that will continuously give you quests if you defeat the monster holding them hostage.  Again, the XP they yield is minimal, but its what you'd expect from a repeatable quest.

Overall it IS different then CoX, but not so much that you won't be able to see similarities.  Some parts make me feel like Cryptic tried a bit too hard to make it different.. at least with the combat aspect.

@Kopema:

The END builder is necessary when you start the game to gain your Endurance back.  That means you use it in every fight at the beginning, middle and end, broken up only by your main damage dealing/support  powers.    Some frameworks allow you to get a certain set of powers that will allow you to not need the END builder, or to remove it from your bar entirely.  This is actually a good thing, because then you aren't waiting to use your attacks,  you just always are using your attacks.   It increases the fun by 70%. (that is a very real percentage)   

What I did notice last night however, was that (at least for telepathy)  the innate passive was broken.  (I bugged it)  The innate passive is supposed to gain you endurance whenever you hold a target.  Most of telepathys moves hold or stun or make your target sleep for a small period of time. This used to be a simple way to rid yourself of having to build end.  You just mass crowd control and then take apart the enemies one by one.  Now however,  when I'm gaining END from held enemies, its coming back as 0, nomatter what the enemy or how many I hold.      This will more then likely be fixed soon enough....  but pay close attention to the powers you choose.  Innate passives are great extra end builders because they do not need to be slotted on your bar to work.  They are also good because you can use innate passive power sets (like telepathy or darkness) as secondary sets and have then assist in gaining you END.

I hope that clears it up for you.

A good review the only aspect I would really question or disagree with is the Missions/Level design, which I would rate at 4/10 and thats generous imo.

Quests are really, really simplistic,  Do X of Y, escort and clear instance occur wayyyy too often, you are forced into farming is thrown in for good measure (well to consume time) but its hardly consistent or relevent to the superhero genre, its a really regressive system and redefines the terms repetitious and linear, worse is that since alpha there seems to have been no additional mechnics integrated so this really could be all we ever see.....

With the possible exception of MC the zones are imo badly realised. Despite their size they end up feeling cramped and messy due to poor layout and disregard for the theme. As an avatar you are treated as a supert-enforcer rather than an independent agent and the enemies are predominantly just dumb animals you are sent to cull.

The nemesis is indeed a potentially cool feature, but although you design their appeareance and give them powers they stop being anything you hoped for and become generic Masterminds the moment you leave the creator....fine if that's coincidentally the nemesis you wanted but it falls considerably short of designing the enemy you hoped for...

Overall quest and level design seems to be the stuff of yesterday's mmo (I'm talking pre Ultima) and as thats what occupies more of your time than anything else it pretty much destroys the whole experience. :(

Here's hoping the next mmo release actually has the guts to do something original.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

I agree that PvP was what I had the most major issue with, and yes as a PvE game it probably doesn't get much better then CO.  Now for a slight down turn though, I think Cryptic has been planning PvP with Villains in the future...  as they've said already they already have 2 planned expansions and are working on the content.... the nemesis system, the one I love so much, could easily be flipped into a villain system.  Personally I think the Devs wanted to get the jump on DCUO so they've let PvP fall to the wayside until they can polish out the balance and maybe flip the switch so your nemesis can be a controllable PvP character later on.  Then again I could be wrong, but it just seems like such a setup.

 

It would seem that you would be able to do this in the Level 40 PvP arena. The one where there is a prison break and one side has 2 Champions and the other 2 Villians there to help out. Makes more sense to be able to play as your Nemesis when you are on the Villian side.

Originally posted by tyanya

A good review the only aspect I would really question or disagree with is the Missions/Level design, which I would rate at 4/10 and thats generous imo.

Quests are really, really simplistic,  Do X of Y, escort and clear instance occur wayyyy too often, you are forced into farming is thrown in for good measure (well to consume time) but its hardly consistent or relevent to the superhero genre, its a really regressive system and redefines the terms repetitious and linear, worse is that since alpha there seems to have been no additional mechnics integrated so this really could be all we ever see.....

With the possible exception of MC the zones are imo badly realised. Despite their size they end up feeling cramped and messy due to poor layout and disregard for the theme. As an avatar you are treated as a supert-enforcer rather than an independent agent and the enemies are predominantly just dumb animals you are sent to cull.

The nemesis is indeed a potentially cool feature, but although you design their appeareance and give them powers they stop being anything you hoped for and become generic Masterminds the moment you leave the creator....fine if that's coincidentally the nemesis you wanted but it falls considerably short of designing the enemy you hoped for...

Overall quest and level design seems to be the stuff of yesterday's mmo (I'm talking pre Ultima) and as thats what occupies more of your time than anything else it pretty much destroys the whole experience. :(

Here's hoping the next mmo release actually has the guts to do something original.

I can completely see what you are saying, and I'll explain quickly why I disagree.   As most MMOs today have similar missions, you have to ask yourself, are these missions any better then whats already out there?  Are the levels any different?  Maybe canada and the desert are boring at the early levels, and .. honestly they are.  But the later levels.. with the prison strong hold, and the crazy frog-land thing in canada are a nice chop into what you thought you knew about the area.  

The levels really are vast.. to some extent.. and there is much to see and experience.  The missions are fairly on par with other MMOS and being linear really does get broken up by the dynamic spawns of your nemesis.  The crisis zones are also a nice addition.  Although playing through the game twice is very repetetive in many senses... the first time through was fun.. and some missions really made me feel they at least put some thought into them.

It is an ok game but the masses never seemed to go crazy over super-hero mmos. Even if the game was completely awesome they still wouldn't show the love it desrves.

Originally posted by kopema

Reader's Digest version:  "Combat : 6/10"

(I have no clue what "using frameworks to rid myself of the END builder" means, but no part of it sounds fun.)

They can add quests and new cape designs forever.  But if the fundamental gameplay of an MMORPG - the part you spend 90% of your time either doing or in one way or another preparing to do - isn't engaging, there basically is no game.

I agree with the jest of his review but the combat is the one area I am in the enjoy it very much group.  It is fast paced and yeah you do have  to build EN, but the game has finally allowed me to create my own custom classes.  I messed with it yesterday creating a fire throwing mind blade carrying  stun/sleep samauri.  With the ability to sleep and hold and the fires dot damage it actually caused many of my enemies to run right into my melee because I was kiting them with temparary stuns constantly.   So yeah I had to get VERY creative but I have found a melee build that really does rock in PVP but you have to realize going in total melee builds are going to be at a disadvantage in PVP

Originally posted by treysmooth

Originally posted by kopema

Reader's Digest version:  "Combat : 6/10"

(I have no clue what "using frameworks to rid myself of the END builder" means, but no part of it sounds fun.)

They can add quests and new cape designs forever.  But if the fundamental gameplay of an MMORPG - the part you spend 90% of your time either doing or in one way or another preparing to do - isn't engaging, there basically is no game.

 

I agree with the jest of his review but the combat is the one area I am in the enjoy it very much group.  It is fast paced and yeah you do have  to build EN, but the game has finally allowed me to create my own custom classes.  I messed with it yesterday creating a fire throwing mind blade carrying  stun/sleep samauri.  With the ability to sleep and hold and the fires dot damage it actually caused many of my enemies to run right into my melee because I was kiting them with temparary stuns constantly.   So yeah I had to get VERY creative but I have found a melee build that really does rock in PVP but you have to realize going in total melee builds are going to be at a disadvantage in PVP

Well, something you may not be aware of also, the CO developers tried to balance the Melee/Ranged disparity by having PvE enemies run towards Melee users. They implemented it on the 2nd to last patch before OB....

Some parts of the combat were very fun... especially at the beginning when I was new and was still learning concepts and effects, and momentum and the like.   For solely solo players this game will not hold their attention for a very long time as theres only so much to do and see... but hopefully they keep with the content updates and find a way to balance PvP so this game will actually keep a modest amount of subscribers.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

hopefully they keep with the content updates

Content is going to be a big deal for me. Right now I can't see myself being involved in the game for more than about 2 months without some content updates. Even if they don't get them out quick enough, its not a big deal for me. I'll just take a break for a few months and play some Fallen Earth or return to F2P DDO for a while. That's pretty much what I'd do for CoX. I'd play for a month every time an issue would be released, but then play another game in the mean time. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game, just that its fun in short bursts.

Have you decided if you're gonna play CO? If not, what else are you looking at?

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Meh, game sucks. My score is 5/10

Best review I've seen of this game so far

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by maskedweasel

hopefully they keep with the content updates

 

Content is going to be a big deal for me. Right now I can't see myself being involved in the game for more than about 2 months without some content updates. Even if they don't get them out quick enough, its not a big deal for me. I'll just take a break for a few months and play some Fallen Earth or return to F2P DDO for a while. That's pretty much what I'd do for CoX. I'd play for a month every time an issue would be released, but then play another game in the mean time. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game, just that its fun in short bursts.

Have you decided if you're gonna play CO? If not, what else are you looking at?

I'm really still deciding, I think its going to come down to the wire.. right before head start I will probably make a decision on what I want to do.  Aganazer, you've been in the beta a long time, you've probably seen more then I have, if the content seems repetetive for me at times I could only imagine how it is for you....   but a big part of me wants to make this thing final..  actually have a max level character that will stay there that I could come back to.

But, I still have time to decide.  As for what I'm looking forward to... nothing in the MMO field has caught my attention for the near future.  SW: ToR is really my next major game I'm looking forward to. In the mean time I'll probably try for the DCUO beta, probably spend some time on my consoles (they've been gathering dust lately).  

More than likely though, I'll probably convince myself to buy this game at the final hour of OB, sub for a month as I run through the content, and then just wait it out until they have something new I'd like to experience... but I really hate doing that.

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Meh, game sucks. My score is 5/10

Best review I've seen of this game so far

Numbers mean different things to different people.

Here's the real bottom line:   It's not as good as City of Heroes.

I found CoH pretty thin after just a few days.  But this game's got nothing on it.

Originally posted by kopema

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Meh, game sucks. My score is 5/10

Best review I've seen of this game so far

 

Numbers mean different things to different people.

Here's the real bottom line:   It's not as good as City of Heroes.

I found CoH pretty thin after just a few days.  But this game's got nothing on it.

I wouldn't go that far, the major difference between CO and CoH is that the content is spaced out so much.  In CoH you pretty much hit all the major content out of the box.. this is both bad and good.  Its terrible in the later levels because its boring and you keep rerolling your characters, but its fun in the beginning because theres no waiting to get to the good parts.

In CO its different... to get to the fun stuff you have very defined level barriers... 5 - 14 - 25 - 32 - 40  each of those levels gives you a monumental power, special missions, or gets you into the next tier of PvP (which I don't care about anyways).  When you first start out though, everything can feel very shallow as far as combat.... the real winner in this game is content...  

I guess we now know why they are pushing for subscription plus micro transaction;  the only way to milk a decent profit from a small player base.

Am I understanding correctly that the game's tutorial(s) are not "skippable" by subsequent alts?

I have to believe that Cryptic will eventually (and soon!) add an option to skip past that tutorial content for your alts.

Thanks for the good review. I do not like the "superhero game genre", but I have been following this game nonetheless as I'm WoW'ed out, LotRO'ed out, and Aion does not interest me in the slightest. I had been thinking about trying CO, but now I'm not so sure.