Tons of posts all contain the bickering back and forth between skill and stats which is better.  Darkfall uses a decimal system for their weapons and armor, for example a rank 0 sword has .36 damage and a chain breastplate has 1.22 slashing protection(not exact figures).  Now a rank 40 sword has say .56 damage, upon first look this seems irrelevant and leads the population to say look at this the gear doesnt make much difference the damage increase from rank to rank is to small to matter.  Now im not a math wizard and i dont understand their system fully but im assuming it goes something like weaponskill*str stat*weap base damage = hit damage.  You can figure this is how it is calculated by the damage increase over playtime using the same rank weapon ie weaponskill str as a new player with rank 0 vs 50 skill 30 str with a rank 0 weapon.

What does all this mean?  it means even though the fanbois like to claim the new player can win versus a seasoned player its purely bs.  They can flame and say oh but i do everyday and id like to say no you prolly think their a seasoned player because people with 75-100 skill wear banded armor just like 10-30 skill level people do.  Lets put this in even clearer perspective, char A is fairly new has 220hp and 25 weaponskill.  Player B has 280 hp and 100 weaponskill.  both are using no armor and a rank 0 sword.  Player A is hitting for around 6-13 damage depending on weapon type.  Player B is hitting for around 15-28 depending on weapontype.  Even if player A is really coordinated and Player B is a Mental retard with one arm, the fight will most likely go to the person hitting 3 times hard than the other specially since 28x8 kills player A while 13x25 is what it will take to kill player B.

Skill will help you in a fairly evenly stat'd match but when it comes down to which is more important stats/gear way supercedes player skill.  Theres players hitting for 50-90 with high end stats vs newbs hitting for 6-10 whos going to win?  Find a wall and autorun into it for about 2 months, and macro skills for another 2 months while you fulltime play another game so when you finally do decide to play darkfall youll at least be competitive stat wise.

My two cents rebutle if you like fanbois but you know Stats > Player skill

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

oO, if you like MMORPG's DFO is NOT the game for you oO. DFO took the char progression system removed the normal factors that limit the gring, increased them then decided to leave out the rest of the RPG aspect. DFO pretty much is a battle arena style world with char skill progression and thats it. The RPG element is missing almost completely.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

 

oO, if you like MMORPG's DFO is NOT the game for you oO. DFO took the char progression system removed the normal factors that limit the gring, increased them then decided to leave out the rest of the RPG aspect. DFO pretty much is a battle arena style world with char skill progression and thats it. The RPG element is missing almost completely.

uhm what ??

"normal factors" ?? lol

"RPG element is missing" ?? lol 

There are plenty of RPG elements in Darkfall

Everybody is RPing all the time....it just so happens that everybody is RPing as sociopathic teenagers .

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

 

oO, if you like MMORPG's DFO is NOT the game for you oO. DFO took the char progression system removed the normal factors that limit the gring, increased them then decided to leave out the rest of the RPG aspect. DFO pretty much is a battle arena style world with char skill progression and thats it. The RPG element is missing almost completely.

uhm what ??

"normal factors" ?? lol

"RPG element is missing" ?? lol 

Such a well thought and intelligent response to his reply, I guess there is nothing else left to be said.  Those responses ending in "lol" are the absolute height of intellect and wit...I can't even keep a straight face with that.

You are going to have to do a little better than that bub.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

 

oO, if you like MMORPG's DFO is NOT the game for you oO. DFO took the char progression system removed the normal factors that limit the gring, increased them then decided to leave out the rest of the RPG aspect. DFO pretty much is a battle arena style world with char skill progression and thats it. The RPG element is missing almost completely.

uhm what ??

"normal factors" ?? lol

"RPG element is missing" ?? lol 

First gring should have been grind lol.

Alright now on to what it seems like you didn't understand. The Factors that normally limit grind in an MMORPG are things such as Skillcaps. In DFO instead of having a skillcap "A reasonably obtainable goal" you get access to every skill. Does it stop there? Nope lol instead of saying ok This is Magic, you have air magic here are the spells. DFO decided to take the grind many steps further and say OK here is Air Magic, now go skill up each individual spell. Does it stop there? No DFO decided it needed to go even further. Now that you hav these spells skilled up would like to use less mana or make them do more dmg etc? Me: SURE!, DFO: Good here now grind these up as well HAA HAA HAA!

They've taken the Skill system from UO and turned it into the twisted hell of Grind. I mean everything needs to be skilled up. For crying out loud resting and running need to be skilled up, I don't just mean sprinting I mean you're regular running. I am surprised they decided to show the player base mercy and not require skill to drinking and eating.

And now on to RPG elements, sorry there is no way even the blindest of the blind can miss the fact that DFO is missing a large chunk of what makes the RPG side of an MMO. DFO is pretty much the ANTI RP MMO.

If you wish explain to me what you believe makes DFO an RPG.

Edited to Add: And LOL @ Maughann!

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

never said i didnt like the game. actually im playing and enjoying it(most of the time).  this post was to make sure new players realize when they come into the game even though there is no "level system" they will still be newbies in terms of stats and even if their gods in fps they will still get slaughtered by veteran players. 

alot of the problem with darkfall is the illusion new players have when they start playing that they will be able to fight anyone 1v1 and have a fair chance. This post was to clarify they wont their new players and will need to skill up like any other mmo to compete against the other players.  Dont worry if someone is killing you in 5 swings youll get there someday(although with the horrid grind probably someday is farther away then they will be willing to suffer through).

I just read through this and I came to the conclusion.

THE THREAD IS A JOKE.

None of us "fanboys" said that PLAYER skill > Stats

We said SKILL LEVELS are better than STATS LEVELS. I hope you understand this time and don't take it the wrong way.

Skills are like Polearm Mastery, Fireball, Firebolt, Greatsword Mastery

Stats are like Strength, Vitality, Quickness, Wisdom, Intelligence

Don't worry about it Darth. I am beginning to think that his posts meanings are lost in translation somewhere.

All you did was post a well thought out observation about the "you are viable from day 1" mantra.

There is truth to that, but it comes with quite a few caveats attached.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

If you dont like MMORPG's there are plenty of action games out there for you to play. In MMORPG's however player accumulate skills and stats over time and are able to use them.

Wow!

What a fan-freaking-tastic post! Such insight!

You really scored one for the home team with that one. I especially like how you use the OP's scenario and then present the numbers in a different way to demonstrate how their representation isn't necessarily accurate and that player skill can, in fact, be more important than stats, regardless of the difference between any given characters.

Very well played, Darth.

/sarcasm off

Seriously...  
Vaz gives a break-down of how stats work in DF to illustrate the disparity between characters at different skill (stat)  levels to show that player skill will not make a big difference when one's stats are significantly higher than another's.

You respond by stating that in MMORPGs, you gain skills and stats over time...

Brilliant.

... and then you add that if they don't like MMORPGs that there are plenty of action games...

Who said anything about not liking MMORPGs? Who the hell are you talking to, Darth?

I'm gonna post this again. The OP was apparently confused about the point of the other thread. He started this one in response to the other one but he got the wrong idea.

None of us "fanboys" said that PLAYER skill > Stats

We said SKILL LEVELS are better than STATS LEVELS. I hope you understand this time and don't take it the wrong way.

Skills are like Polearm Mastery, Fireball, Firebolt, Greatsword Mastery

Stats are like Strength, Vitality, Quickness, Wisdom, Intelligence

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

I'm gonna post this again. The OP was apparently confused about the point of the other thread. He started this one in response to the other one but he got the wrong idea.

None of us "fanboys" said that PLAYER skill > Stats

We said SKILL LEVELS are better than STATS LEVELS. I hope you understand this time and don't take it the wrong way.

 

Skills are like Polearm Mastery, Fireball, Firebolt, Greatsword Mastery

Stats are like Strength, Vitality, Quickness, Wisdom, Intelligence

Oh really? Better not go back thru some of the threads over the last 6 months where Darth and Javac both have said that a more skilled player could beat a better equipped player, and better equipment = better stats.

In fact they weren't the only fawnbois that said that, several others have as well. I leave it to you to find the threads, not worth my time.

Originally posted by vaylha

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

I'm gonna post this again. The OP was apparently confused about the point of the other thread. He started this one in response to the other one but he got the wrong idea.

None of us "fanboys" said that PLAYER skill > Stats

We said SKILL LEVELS are better than STATS LEVELS. I hope you understand this time and don't take it the wrong way.

 

Skills are like Polearm Mastery, Fireball, Firebolt, Greatsword Mastery

Stats are like Strength, Vitality, Quickness, Wisdom, Intelligence

 

Oh really? Better not go back thru some of the threads over the last 6 months where Darth and Javac both have said that a more skilled player could beat a better equipped player, and better equipment = better stats.

In fact they weren't the only fawnbois that said that, several others have as well. I leave it to you to find the threads, not worth my time.

 

I'll back that up as well.
 

Those were some of the debates we had before launch.  Some of us skeptics kept on pointing out that over time newbies were going to stop joining the game because of the disparity in skill levels between new players and veterans.

We were told this would never happen in DarkFall because of two things:

1) Player skill could overcome higher skill levels.

2) Skill decay

Well, it became apparent fairly early that #2 was never implemented. 

Now that the game has progressed far enough... #1 has proven to be wrong as well. 

So, once again the skeptics were right. 

Unfortunately, the more we learn about Tasos, Aventurine, and DarkFall... the more we find out that the skeptics were correct.

Ok you guys still don't understand. The OP made this thread in response to the thread that said it takes 1400+ hours to get max STATS. He thought that meant skills which was different. Hopefully you will understand after an additional explanation.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Ok you guys still don't understand. The OP made this thread in response to the thread that said it takes 1400+ hours to get max STATS. He thought that meant skills which was different. Hopefully you will understand after an additional explanation.

The only thing I am not understanding is how you keep stating the OP is confused, and this post is is somehow related to a different post.

As far as I can tell, the OP has posted twice in this forum, and both are in this thread. The only thing in common would be that both posts are discussing STATS.

So now I am confused as to how you concluded that the OP is confused.

that is unless the two of you have been communicating privately, which would explain my confusion.

Please clarify.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Ok you guys still don't understand. The OP made this thread in response to the thread that said it takes 1400+ hours to get max STATS. He thought that meant skills which was different. Hopefully you will understand after an additional explanation.

It seems that the OP stated why he made this thread. That reason seems to be due to the numerous people saying a freshly made char could take out a vet char and the deciding factor was player skill. I myself thought this was the case when DFO was pretty new and thought so because even the Devs promoted this belief. However that has been proven false. Not just by the OP's thread, but due to my own personal experience and many others experiences. I hope that clears up your confusion.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

I'm gonna post this again. The OP was apparently confused about the point of the other thread. He started this one in response to the other one but he got the wrong idea.

None of us "fanboys" said that PLAYER skill > Stats

We said SKILL LEVELS are better than STATS LEVELS. I hope you understand this time and don't take it the wrong way.

 

Skills are like Polearm Mastery, Fireball, Firebolt, Greatsword Mastery

Stats are like Strength, Vitality, Quickness, Wisdom, Intelligence

Actually... I have seen multiple claims by fans over the past several months where it's said that a new character could beat a more developed one through player skill alone.. that stats wouldn't matter. 

Seeing as how some fans would say, and have said, some much more outlandish things to praise and boost DF, it's not a leap, nor even a small step, to believe some have claimed that as well. Nor would it be unusual to see them set up a false argument for the same reason.

I assume you would be as persistent in correcting those fans as you are here....?

And no, I'm not mistaking "stats" with "skills". 

 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

I'm gonna post this again. The OP was apparently confused about the point of the other thread. He started this one in response to the other one but he got the wrong idea.

None of us "fanboys" said that PLAYER skill > Stats

We said SKILL LEVELS are better than STATS LEVELS. I hope you understand this time and don't take it the wrong way.

 

Skills are like Polearm Mastery, Fireball, Firebolt, Greatsword Mastery

Stats are like Strength, Vitality, Quickness, Wisdom, Intelligence

Actually... I have seen multiple claims by fans over the past several months where it's said that a new character could beat a more developed one through player skill alone.. that stats wouldn't matter. 

Seeing as how some fans would say, and have said, some much more outlandish things to praise and boost DF, it's not a leap, nor even a small step, to believe some have claimed that as well. Nor would it be unusual to see them set up a false argument for the same reason.

I assume you would be as persistent in correcting those fans as you are here....?

And no, I'm not mistaking "stats" with "skills". 

 

Anyone who has played DF and is even mildly successful at it will tell you the same thing, charecter development  is far more important then the individual players ability to play well in a semi FPS setting. All anyone has to do is look at the damage tables and calculate out the mathmatical equations to put it in plain view for everyone. An advanced player has a significant advantage that no new player is going to overcome, even if you put them in identical gear, in a pvp fight.

The opposing views point can only be argued when the lesser developed charecter has a significant outside advantage, such as ganking a player at half health who is fighting mobs, or ganking an advanced player . To me personally i dont really reguard that as skill,so much as taking advantage of lopsided game mechanics. yes there is an element of skill in recognizing and useing terrain or other things to improve you chance at successfully fighting, however ganking,newbie killing, or harvesting afk or naked players is not an indicator of skill, much as some like to believe it is.

If you look at the DF forums, they are all about what skills to take,how to grind them out, or how the grind is bad. The reason isnt because people like that kind of things, its simply because its the simple truth that Charecter development superseeds any kind of player ability by a large margin, probably at least  75/25 ratio. Look at the Red Army VS sinister alliance fight from last night, its a perfect example of more developed charecters vs lesser developed charecters. It was the exact same with the Mercs on EU-1. Both those groups have some very good players, who have actual player skills, but they are both aggressively persuing charecter development as the priority, not dueling or pvp activities.

you admit you don't understand their system and then go on to post another 200+ words on how the system works....

you people need to get your facts straight and get evidence before posting on these forums.  Still if it is true then i can see your point.