Originally posted by RPGFanatic

Whether people admit it or not WoW provides the most content there is an any game, WoW has many downfalls being labeled the number one repitive game with every expansion pack its always 10 lvls, but personally WoW has came a long way from 40 man AQ to raids that can be turned into 10 or 25 and now even 5 mans thats can be turned into 10's or 25's. Even if you get sick of PvE you can stroll over to the bg's maybe do some arena, or wait until the next wintergrasp, and if not that go back and do some old quests to dab into its wonderful and well thought out storyline. The problem is not many games can compare to it for its content. Now people who say the game gets old fast are the people who are the nazi raiding guilds who clear raids fast and effeciently, now im not bashing them because I too was in that situation but it started to feel like a second job instead of a game so I played in moderation, and for people who bashed WoW for getting old too quick, if you havent downed every boss and worked your way to 2050 arena rating or even picked up 100,000 honorable kills, you have done anything to even scratch a dent in the content WoW offers. With this post I mean no misintent to anyone and am by any meanings trying to say not everyone has a right to an opinion.

If you have to repeat a raid 20 times to get the epics you need to progress, that doesn't mean WoW has 20x the content, it still has that one piece of content that you have to repeat over and over.  If you think timesinks are content then I honestly feel bad for you.  If you think the story behind kill 5 boars is exciting then I question your intelligence.

Originally posted by dinanm3atl

I need another MMORPG to play. BAD!

Ultima Online was my first MMORPG and it is still my favorite game. EQ was a good game. WoW is a good game. PotBS was a big let down. WAR was good but just too repetitive...

 

So what is out there? What should I try? I like fantasy or historical MMORPG. I can do sandbox(like UO) but the last one was Darkfall and apparently that is terrible...

 

So what to do?

 

Help!

try Eve it's very complex

Eve.  Eve.  What can one say about Eve?  I cannot even remember all the games that I have quit over the years for one reason or another.  There were several games that I quit, knowing that I would return at some point.  Eve is the only game I have given into nerdrage - deleting everything I had and swearing that I would never return - after playing off and on for over four years.  It was over something stupid, and I simply could not accept CCP's incompetence and attitude toward it.

Still, it is the closest you are going to get to sandbox these days.

try EQ2.. might be low populated those days tho..

Heh.... Funny people and their clouded thoughts.
Wow is a good game.
Walmart is a good store.
McDonalds is a good restaurant.

These things can not be denied. Does it make them excellent? No. But they are good. They each are considered the best in their field business wise.

And I would say that most of the people I know that have quit WoW are reminiscent or nostalgic. They may be bitter and spiteful of the game, but you can always get them in a conversation about the "good times" and see that they enjoyed it.

EvE is freaking complex and expansive. I would say its not worth the effort to play the game unless you can invest a good chunk of time per day into it for the first 2 months. After that you can start to get away with less time.

If you want some good MMO suggestions, I would suggest explaining what you like in an MMO. I haven't been able to find a game like pre-Trammel UO. And I don’t think one will ever exist. One of the reasons it was so good is the community was so good. Now you have children and groups of people who intentionally or not try to destroy games and exploit them.
 

Since I did like EQ maybe EQ2 is my answer. 100% new content... even if the PvE is repetitive it is still 'new'.

What UO did was the kind of MMO I like the best. A good risk/reward PvP system. Full loot. No power items or god like items. No 110,000 hit points. Spells require more than mana. I could go on but you get the idea. I like skills over levels.

Can I do digital copy of EQ2? I think I saw a trial. I will check out that out me thinks.

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Golarum

Originally posted by heartless

I mean, I don't know about most people and their feelings towards WoW, what I do know though is that it's a game that 11 million people enjoy. And please don't give me that whole "just because 11 million, blah blah" nonsense. WoW is a game and a game is a form of entertainment. If it wasn't fun or entertaining to those 11 million people, they wouldn't be playing it.

 

Actually players will play a game if it's got a lot of hype even if they don't like it, because WoW has become a gaming culture because of the hype.

I have a lot of real life friends who play WoW and they are miserable in the game, the only reason they stay is that they are part of a guild and they made some friends they don't want to let down. Or they don't see other games as casual as WoW. Or that they invested so much time in it that they don't feel good leaving the game.

Another thing is that the 11 million players worldwide is far from being accurate now that China had trouble running the game for a while.

Walmart is the biggest store chain in the world, and McDonald is the biggest restaurant chain in the world. Does that make them good? Not at all, walmart produces the biggest crap on this planet and McDonald, well you know where I'm going with that.

As I always say, Blizzard is handled by very smart people, as a business they are doing great, but is WoW a good game in terms of a quality game? Not at all.

Peace

Please don't compare Walmart and MCDonald's with a form of entertainment. Walmart is a store which sells, amongst other items, basic necessities (food, medicine, etc). Walmart is also less expensive than other stores and almost always has items in stock. MC Donald's offers cheap and easily accessible food. Not everyone can afford a $25+ gourmet meal 3 times per day.

WoW, on the other hand, is not a necessity and people play it because it, or something about it, entertains them, not because they have to. You cannot compare things which provide basic necessities with games, games aren't required for people's survival. A lot of people visit doctors for one reason or another, using your logic, all doctors should be considered bad.

In your case, your miserable friends are probably exaggerating because I find it hard to believe that a sane human being will pay money to be miserable, even if they feel some sort of a social attachment to their in-game friends. There are multitude of other ways of communicating with people besides the game. For example, I stopped playing WoW but I keep in contact with friends I made there through email, other games, Facebook, etc. Hell, I still keep in touch with some people I played UO with like 10 years ago.

Also, as far as I know, most of the Chinese WoW players use the Singapore servers which didn't experience any downtime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Boring_task_experiment

How do you think WoW gets popular?  Word of mouth.

 

And that's different from other MMOs, exactly how?

The only difference is that a sub par game like WoW has been able to "word of mouth" 11 million people world wide while better games can't even manage to reach 1/4th of that. How's that possible?

Id like to answer OP in this thread but... I dont know what to answer, atm I cant see any playable mmo. EvE is good but it has a very long learning curve and it keeps getting longer and longer. AoC PvE is descent but... well the flaws win over the perks in general. CoX is great for some time... but after the 14day trial well, it stops being great and with the player mishs everyone just farms the studios or whatever they were called.

My bet would rather lay on an upcoming title. But then again this genre attracts the worst of publishers and developers. Companies in for a good buck rather then quality gaming. One can only hope something good will come out in the near future, perhaps fallen earth, earth rise or SWTOR may be any good, then theres the wildcard MO.. but knowing the studio itl probably be shit, atleast for the average gamer.

Anyway good luch with your quest, youl need it.

Originally posted by dinanm3atl

Since I did like EQ maybe EQ2 is my answer. 100% new content... even if the PvE is repetitive it is still 'new'.

I think this is probably a good choice.  Definitely do the trial at least.  I've played all the big name MMOs out nowadays, and I would say EQ2 is the best PvE game on the market.  It has an enormous amount of content, gets regular updates and expansions and will be around for a long time, and has come so far from its dreadful launch.  It's not without it's problems, but is definitely worth checking out.

I'd recommend the Antonia Bayle server as it has the best population and the game is a little top-heavy, so it will be easier to find groups.  That being said, it probably has the worst community as well (due to the larger population), so you'll have to try it out and see if it's for you or not.

Anyway, let us know what you decide and if you enjoy yourself.

Cheers

I think the WoW arguments are hilarious...

I'm one who has endless nastalgic thoughts and feelings for Pre-Trammel and immediately Post-Trammel UO. I also played EQ a LOT, DAoC, then WoW, GW, etc.... So I also liked both UO and WoW very much, even though completely different games. (I'm talking about wow prior to any expansions here).

UO, in my mind, was the best MMORPG to date, especially the first 2-3 years, until Felucia died out completely. The first two years of DAoC being the second best (also due to sandbox activity, player-driven events, I.E. keeps), 2 years of EQ being the 3rd, and Wow being the 4th.

In regards to WoW being a 'good game...' WoW was an amazing game....

Unfortunately, as with most MMO's, as they released expansions the older content became deserted. Today, you can't start up from level 1 and enjoy the game unless you like to solofest your butt off until level 70...It's not possible unless you know people who play and are willing to help. As others have stated, the game has also turned into a "hey look what I have, its a better staff than yours, hahaha" lame, never-ending equipment grind for kiddies who like to show off shiney new gear and gloat about it.

I have a friend who still plays and claims it as 'the best game ever' but I can't wait until WoW COMPLETELY and UTTERLY dies... Can you imagine 11 million people spread throughout many other MMO's, populating servers and making games more playable and viable (well, in a way it would suck, bringing all the carebears out to more hardcore games, heh)? That'd be great IMO!  But instead we have 11 million people wasting their time with WoW, who don't and won't know it until they get bored, give it up, and realize they hate the game more than they once loved it, as with ALL WoW players who quit.

WoW should NEVER be considered a 'GOOD GAME' from here on out, though! A good game wouldnt forc eyou to solo the first entire half of the game, a good game would offer grouping content and more choices. However, the designers/devs being paid behind the scenes of WoW are just friggin geniuses that somehow captivate and HOLD onto their subscribers. The only 'good' part about WoW is how amazingly polished and 100% ready every single patch is that they released, which is what I think truly keeps players around...Not to mention a superior lack of cheaters( as far as I know, anyway). I'd guess when you generate $20 million/month just from subs it isn't too tough to do, though.

Wow-bashing is getting so old and lame. I like how our standards are changing tho, and the people who continue to argue that WoW is a bad game are just starting to look dumber and dumber.

So what the game isn't complex? If people wanted complex, they'd place something else. The game is what it is. Most people think its good and have enjoyed it at some point... but seriously how long can a game last? I've moved on from WoW and can't stand playing it anymore for so many reasons. But I did have fun.

And even if I didn't, I'm a respectable enough person to recognize when a game is good even if I don't like it. In fact, most games are good. I just don't like most of them. I can't believe how arrogant some people are, thinking that what they don't like is always BAD. Grow up some.

Now onto the good stuff. I recommend EVE Online because I just started playing it and I'm blown away. BUT you need to give it time and patience. It's very rewarding if you do. Force yourself to try and learn the game; play for a few hours and understand whats going on and what its potential is. Totally worthwhile, and there is a 21-day free trial through Steam. If its torture to get into it, then there are other options.

EQ2 maybe, since you liked EQ. I didn't like the combat. It revolves too much around this opportunity tool type thing, and you end up repeating the same short 3-button chain over and over. It gets more complex in groups but I like to solo as often as I group. The rest of the game is amazing, and if I wanted I could get around the combat and get totally into it. The times I played it, I just got pulled away by other games. Not EQ2's fault.

In parallel to EQ2 is Vanguard. I can't vouch for it though because I only played to level 10. See how I did that? I didn't say a game was Bad that I didn't play for more than a couple hours.

I'm biased towards EVE because I love it at the moment. But I also love Space and spaceships, so that helped me get into it.

I agree with Goob. I play WoW. Yea, I'm kinda sick of it and some of them stuff that's rumored seems to make me want to dry heave (why the f*ck does alliance get a race like Worgen that can transform and Horde only gets the goblins..great...more things exploding...)

I havn't played EVE, but I might give it a try. I personally like Wizard 101 (cus I kinda like the Harry Potter thing. Not die hard fan, but still like it). and Perfect World International as well as Runes of Magic.  It comes down to that we play games we like. Everyone is different. Not everyone likes WoW or games like Dragonica or FPS (yes, I suck at FPS), but I do actualy enjoy watching others play them and get into the madness by cheering them on. STOP THE NEGATIVITY PEOPLE! LOVE FOR GAMING! NO MATTER IT'S FORMAT!

If you're looking for a deal Newegg as of last week had PotBS for $4.99 with free shipping.  Basically you're paying 5 bucks for a month to see if you enjoy the game or not; be forewarned, I've heard it's got either a really nasty community or a very nice one depending on the server you pick but for $5 you get a free month, can't beat that.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Golarum

Originally posted by heartless

I mean, I don't know about most people and their feelings towards WoW, what I do know though is that it's a game that 11 million people enjoy. And please don't give me that whole "just because 11 million, blah blah" nonsense. WoW is a game and a game is a form of entertainment. If it wasn't fun or entertaining to those 11 million people, they wouldn't be playing it.

 

Actually players will play a game if it's got a lot of hype even if they don't like it, because WoW has become a gaming culture because of the hype.

I have a lot of real life friends who play WoW and they are miserable in the game, the only reason they stay is that they are part of a guild and they made some friends they don't want to let down. Or they don't see other games as casual as WoW. Or that they invested so much time in it that they don't feel good leaving the game.

Another thing is that the 11 million players worldwide is far from being accurate now that China had trouble running the game for a while.

Walmart is the biggest store chain in the world, and McDonald is the biggest restaurant chain in the world. Does that make them good? Not at all, walmart produces the biggest crap on this planet and McDonald, well you know where I'm going with that.

As I always say, Blizzard is handled by very smart people, as a business they are doing great, but is WoW a good game in terms of a quality game? Not at all.

Peace

Please don't compare Walmart and MCDonald's with a form of entertainment. Walmart is a store which sells, amongst other items, basic necessities (food, medicine, etc). Walmart is also less expensive than other stores and almost always has items in stock. MC Donald's offers cheap and easily accessible food. Not everyone can afford a $25+ gourmet meal 3 times per day.

WoW, on the other hand, is not a necessity and people play it because it, or something about it, entertains them, not because they have to. You cannot compare things which provide basic necessities with games, games aren't required for people's survival. A lot of people visit doctors for one reason or another, using your logic, all doctors should be considered bad.

In your case, your miserable friends are probably exaggerating because I find it hard to believe that a sane human being will pay money to be miserable, even if they feel some sort of a social attachment to their in-game friends. There are multitude of other ways of communicating with people besides the game. For example, I stopped playing WoW but I keep in contact with friends I made there through email, other games, Facebook, etc. Hell, I still keep in touch with some people I played UO with like 10 years ago.

Also, as far as I know, most of the Chinese WoW players use the Singapore servers which didn't experience any downtime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Boring_task_experiment

How do you think WoW gets popular?  Word of mouth.

 

And that's different from other MMOs, exactly how?

The only difference is that a sub par game like WoW has been able to "word of mouth" 11 million people world wide while better games can't even manage to reach 1/4th of that. How's that possible?

Only a small subset of MMORPGs are different from that, the sandbox games, and Asheron's Call too, that's like a themepark/sandbox combo.  The gameplay in those games does not focus on repetitive content with no variance at all, but rather they have systems in place that allow for content to be dynamically created by players through war, trade, politics, and city building among other things.  They actually make use of their large player populations to provide content for everyone else, and this is very rarely repetitive because other players tend to provide a sufficient challenge and they can continue to surprise you.  Exploration tends to be useful in these types of games as well, you actually find something of value in a dungeon without having to take some stupid quest.  Basically these sandbox games provide many different ways to play, and that's why they're superior to the WoW style game.  They're basically living breathing worlds.

Originally posted by Weioo

I think the WoW arguments are hilarious...

I'm one who has endless nastalgic thoughts and feelings for Pre-Trammel and immediately Post-Trammel UO. I also played EQ a LOT, DAoC, then WoW, GW, etc.... So I also liked both UO and WoW very much, even though completely different games. (I'm talking about wow prior to any expansions here).

UO, in my mind, was the best MMORPG to date, especially the first 2-3 years, until Felucia died out completely. The first two years of DAoC being the second best (also due to sandbox activity, player-driven events, I.E. keeps), 2 years of EQ being the 3rd, and Wow being the 4th.

 

In regards to WoW being a 'good game...' WoW was an amazing game....

Unfortunately, as with most MMO's, as they released expansions the older content became deserted. Today, you can't start up from level 1 and enjoy the game unless you like to solofest your butt off until level 70...It's not possible unless you know people who play and are willing to help. As others have stated, the game has also turned into a "hey look what I have, its a better staff than yours, hahaha" lame, never-ending equipment grind for kiddies who like to show off shiney new gear and gloat about it.

I have a friend who still plays and claims it as 'the best game ever' but I can't wait until WoW COMPLETELY and UTTERLY dies... Can you imagine 11 million people spread throughout many other MMO's, populating servers and making games more playable and viable (well, in a way it would suck, bringing all the carebears out to more hardcore games, heh)? That'd be great IMO!  But instead we have 11 million people wasting their time with WoW, who don't and won't know it until they get bored, give it up, and realize they hate the game more than they once loved it, as with ALL WoW players who quit.

WoW should NEVER be considered a 'GOOD GAME' from here on out, though! A good game wouldnt forc eyou to solo the first entire half of the game, a good game would offer grouping content and more choices. However, the designers/devs being paid behind the scenes of WoW are just friggin geniuses that somehow captivate and HOLD onto their subscribers. The only 'good' part about WoW is how amazingly polished and 100% ready every single patch is that they released, which is what I think truly keeps players around...Not to mention a superior lack of cheaters( as far as I know, anyway). I'd guess when you generate $20 million/month just from subs it isn't too tough to do, though.

The reason for the expansions has entirely to do with the game mechanics.  All there is to do is kill bosses and get better equipment, this invalidates all previous content, and so they release expansion with new bosses to kill and new items to upgrade to.  A good game would focus on variety rather than progression (after a certain point of course).  The boss monsters could still be there, but they'd serve a different purpose of giving xp to the players that killed it and maybe some kind of special item that provides a useful purpose in certain situations, but wouldn't be a replacement for previously obtained items.

Also they have 11 million subscribers, and it costs $15 a month I think?  That would be $165 millon per month

Originally posted by Scottc 

Only a small subset of MMORPGs are different from that, the sandbox games, and Asheron's Call too, that's like a themepark/sandbox combo.  The gameplay in those games does not focus on repetitive content with no variance at all, but rather they have systems in place that allow for content to be dynamically created by players through war, trade, politics, and city building among other things.  They actually make use of their large player populations to provide content for everyone else, and this is very rarely repetitive because other players tend to provide a sufficient challenge and they can continue to surprise you.  Exploration tends to be useful in these types of games as well, you actually find something of value in a dungeon without having to take some stupid quest.  Basically these sandbox games provide many different ways to play, and that's why they're superior to the WoW style game.  They're basically living breathing worlds.

My whole point is that most MMO's, yes, even the sandbox ones operate the same way. Sure, some are more theme park-like than others but the premise is the same: you and a whole bunch of other people are playing online at the same time. All MMOs are based around a "carrot-on-a-stick" concept.

WoW just happened to have something about it that makes 11 million people want to play it. It wouldn't make sense for 11 million people to want to play and even pay for it if it were a bad game, especially when there are other alternatives out there.

So seriously, how can you sit there and tell me that WoW is a bad game that people play and pay for because of word of mouth and conflicting feelings?

The fact is, you dislike WoW for some reason and that's your personal opinion but it does not make WoW a bad game. It's not Walmart and it's not MC Donald's. WoW is a form of entertainment and while people go to MC Donald's and Walmart due to basic necessities, they play WoW because they like it.

Edit: BTW I only have one active MMO subscription to EVE Online.

Originally posted by Vallanor

Originally posted by dinanm3atl

Since I did like EQ maybe EQ2 is my answer. 100% new content... even if the PvE is repetitive it is still 'new'.

 

I think this is probably a good choice.  Definitely do the trial at least.  I've played all the big name MMOs out nowadays, and I would say EQ2 is the best PvE game on the market.  It has an enormous amount of content, gets regular updates and expansions and will be around for a long time, and has come so far from its dreadful launch.  It's not without it's problems, but is definitely worth checking out.

I'd recommend the Antonia Bayle server as it has the best population and the game is a little top-heavy, so it will be easier to find groups.  That being said, it probably has the worst community as well (due to the larger population), so you'll have to try it out and see if it's for you or not.

Anyway, let us know what you decide and if you enjoy yourself.

Cheers

Leveled to 7 as a High Elf Ranger. Haven't left starting hour. Didn't take too long. Feels like WoW but I am going to keep going.

Age of Conan seems like it could also be a choice if EQ2 won't hold me. Waiting for new Star Wars as lots of local friends are going to play and that makes it a LOT more fun.

To be honest there are a few... but not much.

Developers have been avoiding the whole sandbox game for a long time now.   But there are four on the market or soon to be on the market games...

Darkfall- which isnt really a true sandbox, but its close.   Although I havent tried it, it has had some really harsh reviews and it is a monthly subscription.

Mortal Online- Not out yet, still in early/mid beta, looks good, but so do many games that arent out yet.   So far has had favorable reviews from those few beta testers who have said something.  Did I mention its expensive.

Roma Victor- A true full Sandbox, no magic, no fantasy, and slow game play and more than its share of bugs and glitches.  But its price is the best...   MMORPG has the price wrong on the page for it, its actually only 9.95GPB (about 20USD)  and no monthly  fee makes it really the best priced sandbox.    But it isnt a easy game or a fast game.  

Eve Online- Its a space ship game no indipentant avatars you are your ship, time based skill leveling, and slower game play.   But market fair price and monthly fee... its really the only space sandbox out there....