Originally posted by hoopty

 

The Game is MMORPG..But it belongs in its own Category.This site is not set up for 1000s of flash games that are so called mmorpg.And further more these games should not be mixed in with the "Normal" mmorpg games anyway

Then define the category and define WHY.  Define "Normal".  What is not normal about it?

At present it meets the MMORPG rules apparently?  So, WHY do you think it does NOT deserve to be listed alongside the other MMORPGs listed here.  If you can't think of a reason and / or a definition of MMORPG than includes most of the games already listed but excludes games like Farm Town then it should be listed here.  And so should the thousands of other games like it.

Another bright side is that this now means there is proof it does not take millions of dollars to develop a MMORPG?

 Long story short, you know why it shouldn't be listed here. It ISN'T what people are looking for when they look for a MMORPG. You are correct that it probably does fit MMORPG's rules  .... the rules need to be modified. Guild Wars shouldn't even be listed on the site, but it's fairly close and also fits all the rules to be listed on this site.

 These mindless debates kill me .... (It's called common sense)

And the part that needs to be modified is the hub for social interaction.To be an MMORPG, it should be based on a virtual world where you can run into each and every siongle player playing that is on your respective server. And key word: WORLD not a place.

There is probably more that should be modified, but that could at least once and for all weed out what MOST do not consider to be an mmorpg.

Hmm, it could be argued that Farm Town and its associated game variations do not offer the full "Role Playing" aspect of an MMORPG, due to the fact that you are limited to only one character class - that of a farmer, and that you are bound to only one predetermined location with no option to explore - other than a marketplace location and other peoples farms - which are technically a modified version of your own, I suppose...

...but then that IS a very slim and debatable argument...lol

Originally posted by Bama1267

 Long story short, you know why it shouldn't be listed here. It ISN'T what people are looking for when they look for a MMORPG. You are correct that it probably does fit MMORPG's rules  .... the rules need to be modified. Guild Wars shouldn't even be listed on the site, but it's fairly close and also fits all the rules to be listed on this site.

 These mindless debates kill me .... (It's called common sense)

Well, actually it's not 'common sense'.

We are all looking for something different.

FWIW - I agree that there is something wrong with the MMORPG.com rules/guidelines when a game like Farm Town meets all the criteria. 

For me, it's central to the whole 'instancing' idea.  But I am not sure how to word it.
Which is why i want to see if someone can read the original post and tell me why it isn't an MMORPG without using words like 'feeling' etc.

Originally posted by Butterball

Hmm, it could be argued that Farm Town and its associated game variations do not offer the full "Role Playing" aspect of an MMORPG, due to the fact that you are limited to only one character class - that of a farmer, and that you are bound to only one predetermined location with no option to explore - other than a marketplace location and other peoples farms - which are technically a modified version of your own, I suppose...

...but then that IS a very slim and debatable argument...lol

It's also the best argument so far...

Originally posted by Bama1267

 Guild Wars shouldn't even be listed on the site, but it's fairly close and also fits all the rules to be listed on this site.

Here we go redefining MMORPG, from Square Enix to underground korean companies must know that :-D

Well, to the debate, yes, that game is a MMORPG (technically) and the pre-requisites of being listed on mmorpg.com not only support the RPGs but others as well. But the *untold* point is, this site lists only binaries (if I'm not wrong). So why shouldn't it be listed here? only because it's against the expectation of mmorpg.com's members.

Originally posted by vatzcar

Originally posted by Bama1267

 Guild Wars shouldn't even be listed on the site, but it's fairly close and also fits all the rules to be listed on this site.

 

Here we go redefining MMORPG, from Square Enix to underground korean companies must know that :-D

Well, to the debate, yes, that game is a MMORPG (technically) and the pre-requisites of being listed on mmorpg.com not only support the RPGs but others as well. But the *untold* point is, this site lists only binaries (if I'm not wrong). So why shouldn't it be listed here? only because it's against the expectation of mmorpg.com's members.

 Well it isn' an MMORPG and even the company itself recognizes that. Its practically 1 step away from Diablo 2 which are both great games but not mmorpg's. Just out of curiosity this is what wikpedia has it listed as and can says it better than most:

 It provides two main modes of gameplay—a cooperative role-playing component and a competitive player vs. player (PvP) component—both of which are hosted on ArenaNet's servers. Three stand-alone episodes and one expansion pack were released in the series from April 2005 to August 2007.

 Its listed as a CORPG, but this debate is old. I don't mind it being listed here but you have to draw the line somewhere. :p

Originally posted by thexrated

One day those flash games can be as complex and massively multiplayer as the mainstream MMORPGs are today. I thought there was a company that was already about to do that? Provide MMOs that are playable through a flash window.

Unity 3D

The dev kit is more expensive than flash, but you can do full 3D and pixel shading with it. Check out Crane Wars and Velociraptor Safari.

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by hoopty

 

The Game is MMORPG..But it belongs in its own Category.This site is not set up for 1000s of flash games that are so called mmorpg.And further more these games should not be mixed in with the "Normal" mmorpg games anyway

 

Then define the category and define WHY.  Define "Normal".  What is not normal about it?

At present it meets the MMORPG rules apparently?  So, WHY do you think it does NOT deserve to be listed alongside the other MMORPGs listed here.  If you can't think of a reason and / or a definition of MMORPG than includes most of the games already listed but excludes games like Farm Town then it should be listed here.  And so should the thousands of other games like it.

Another bright side is that this now means there is proof it does not take millions of dollars to develop a MMORPG?

You can call any Flash game a MMORPG..How ever its not the Normal..To what we have here..The games we have here are the usual 3d ..By looking at the Farm website those games are not 3d.The graphic are not with the times of 2009..Those games at Farm reminds me of my child hood years..Back then it was "Normal" to have these games..But this is 2009 an technology has changed' so those games are out dated and NOT Normal in this day and age.Any one can make flash games and they are cheap..Can you make a game that is a Real MMORPG like AION??Lets compare a real MMORPG  Game with a Flash game..So you tell me are flash games normal with the technology of 2009? The answer is NO!Can they make a Madden football 2010 in a flash game to look like the Original for a Pc? NO..That is why the Flash Games need there own catergory.They don't belong with the Big dogs and that being said the flash games need there own porch..

I agree with MMORPG of a flash game..But it does not belong with the Big Dogs..There cheap and anyone can make a flash game..

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by Butterball

Hmm, it could be argued that Farm Town and its associated game variations do not offer the full "Role Playing" aspect of an MMORPG, due to the fact that you are limited to only one character class - that of a farmer, and that you are bound to only one predetermined location with no option to explore - other than a marketplace location and other peoples farms - which are technically a modified version of your own, I suppose...

...but then that IS a very slim and debatable argument...lol

 It's also the best argument so far...

Yep, I think that guy is teh winnar .. Farm Town might fall into the category of MMO, but I don't think it could be described as an RPG.

I play an adult/sex MMO and it meets all the criteria, but it's not listed.  

Originally posted by Bama1267

 Well it isn' an MMORPG and even the company itself recognizes that. Its practically 1 step away from Diablo 2 which are both great games but not mmorpg's. Just out of curiosity this is what wikpedia has it listed as and can says it better than most:

 It provides two main modes of gameplay—a cooperative role-playing component and a competitive player vs. player (PvP) component—both of which are hosted on ArenaNet's servers. Three stand-alone episodes and one expansion pack were released in the series from April 2005 to August 2007.

 Its listed as a CORPG, but this debate is old. I don't mind it being listed here but you have to draw the line somewhere. :p

 

yes, that's true. but just being a GW fan I don't like it to be pushed out-of-genre in broader perspective. and thank you for not taking my comment as a personal attack :-)

P.S. sorry for going off-topic for a while

Originally posted by hoopty
...

.....The games we have here are the usual 3d ..By looking at the Farm website those games are not 3d.The graphic are not with the times of 2009..Those games at Farm reminds me of my child hood years..Back then it was "Normal" to have these games..But this is 2009 an technology has changed' so those games are out dated and NOT Normal in this day and age.Any one can make flash games and they are cheap...

Look sorry, but that is just not a convincing argument.

Should MMORPG.com de-list Ultima Online? because it looks a bit dated?

WWIIoL is definitely looking old now - but the engine has been and is being rebuilt.

And as for the technology changing... is that an argument for or against Farm Town?
I could say 'due to changing technology Farm Town represents the new breed of MMORPG... casual, simplified, accessible.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by Butterball

Hmm, it could be argued that Farm Town and its associated game variations do not offer the full "Role Playing" aspect of an MMORPG, due to the fact that you are limited to only one character class - that of a farmer, and that you are bound to only one predetermined location with no option to explore - other than a marketplace location and other peoples farms - which are technically a modified version of your own, I suppose...

...but then that IS a very slim and debatable argument...lol

 It's also the best argument so far...

Yep, I think that guy is teh winnar .. Farm Town might fall into the category of MMO, but I don't think it could be described as an RPG.

Other social MMOs are RPGs. 

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by hoopty
...

.....The games we have here are the usual 3d ..By looking at the Farm website those games are not 3d.The graphic are not with the times of 2009..Those games at Farm reminds me of my child hood years..Back then it was "Normal" to have these games..But this is 2009 an technology has changed' so those games are out dated and NOT Normal in this day and age.Any one can make flash games and they are cheap...

Look sorry, but that is just not a convincing argument.

Should MMORPG.com de-list Ultima Online? because it looks a bit dated?

WWIIoL is definitely looking old now - but the engine has been and is being rebuilt.

And as for the technology changing... is that an argument for or against Farm Town?
I could say 'due to changing technology Farm Town represents the new breed of MMORPG... casual, simplified, accessible.

Utima is not a Flash game either, so your point is moot..And besides it is one of the longest running games still on the Web and making money..The original Ultima Online client is 2D and, while it was state of the art when released, it is intended to be used on low-end machines that cannot support the more taxing 3D client.

I find Flash Games as a time killer when i download a Real Mmorpg at the same time..And sorry Farm town flash games are nothing, compare to what we have to day..Don't get me wrong i like flash games..But they are not the top dogs..

 The fact that Farm Town meets MMORPG's requirements, taken with the fact that Adventure Quest (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/379) and Disciple (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/405) ARE listed, and are both browser and flash based seems to support the idea that Farm Town SHOULD be listed. In addition, role playing is defined as:

-------------

 1 : to act out the role of
2 : to represent in action <students were asked to role{ndash}play the thoughts and feelings of each character — R. G. Lambert>
intransitive verb
: to play a role

----------------

and since, while the roles available to play are certainly very limited, you can indeed roleplay a farmer on Farm Town, I can't think of any reason not to list Farm Town. Yes, it's sub-par to my standards (and likely those of most of the MMORPG.com community), but so are Disciple and Adventure Quest. The only difference is that Disciple and Adventure Quest are based in the traditional fantasy setting that MMOs started in. But the genre is clearly welcoming new settings (STO, SWtOR, Hello Kitty Online [hard to believe this one is listed either, actually], Global Agenda, etc.)

I don't want to see it listed on this site because I consider it sub-par. Then again, Furcadia is listed too. So I have no argument against it whatsoever. And there are obviously people that think it is good enough to be played. Is it an MMO? Yes, technically. Should it be listed? I don't see why not. Do I want to see it here? No, not really.

Originally posted by Draco91

 The fact that Farm Town meets MMORPG's requirements, taken with the fact that Adventure Quest (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/379) and Disciple (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/405) ARE listed, and are both browser and flash based seems to support the idea that Farm Town SHOULD be listed. In addition, role playing is defined as:

-------------

 1 : to act out the role of
2 : to represent in action <students were asked to role{ndash}play the thoughts and feelings of each character — R. G. Lambert>
intransitive verb
: to play a role

----------------

and since, while the roles available to play are certainly very limited, you can indeed roleplay a farmer on Farm Town, I can't think of any reason not to list Farm Town. Yes, it's sub-par to my standards (and likely those of most of the MMORPG.com community), but so are Disciple and Adventure Quest. The only difference is that Disciple and Adventure Quest are based in the traditional fantasy setting that MMOs started in. But the genre is clearly welcoming new settings (STO, SWtOR, Hello Kitty Online [hard to believe this one is listed either, actually], Global Agenda, etc.)

 

I don't want to see it listed on this site because I consider it sub-par. Then again, Furcadia is listed too. So I have no argument against it whatsoever. And there are obviously people that think it is good enough to be played. Is it an MMO? Yes, technically. Should it be listed? I don't see why not. Do I want to see it here? No, not really.

Really those Browser and flash games and Farm town games should go to this website... www.mpogd.com/  IMO.

Also note..To get players to support your thoughts..Its like going to the Dentist pulling teeth..Craig is the main man you need to write to..

Craig is responsible for the business end of the site. If you are interested in discussing advertising, contests or just the site in general you can contact him at  admin@mmorpg.com

Edit correction

Originally posted by hoopty

Originally posted by Draco91

 The fact that Farm Town meets MMORPG's requirements, taken with the fact that Adventure Quest (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/379) and Disciple (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/405) ARE listed, and are both browser and flash based seems to support the idea that Farm Town SHOULD be listed. In addition, role playing is defined as:

-------------

 1 : to act out the role of
2 : to represent in action <students were asked to role{ndash}play the thoughts and feelings of each character — R. G. Lambert>
intransitive verb
: to play a role

----------------

and since, while the roles available to play are certainly very limited, you can indeed roleplay a farmer on Farm Town, I can't think of any reason not to list Farm Town. Yes, it's sub-par to my standards (and likely those of most of the MMORPG.com community), but so are Disciple and Adventure Quest. The only difference is that Disciple and Adventure Quest are based in the traditional fantasy setting that MMOs started in. But the genre is clearly welcoming new settings (STO, SWtOR, Hello Kitty Online [hard to believe this one is listed either, actually], Global Agenda, etc.)

 

I don't want to see it listed on this site because I consider it sub-par. Then again, Furcadia is listed too. So I have no argument against it whatsoever. And there are obviously people that think it is good enough to be played. Is it an MMO? Yes, technically. Should it be listed? I don't see why not. Do I want to see it here? No, not really.

 

Really those Browser and flash games and Farm town games should go to this website... www.mpogd.com/  IMO.

 

Also note..To get players to support your thoughts..Its like going to the Dentist pulling teeth..Craig is the main man you need to write to..

Craig is responsible for the business end of the site. If you are interested in discussing advertising, contests or just the site in general you can contact him at  admin@mmorpg.com

 

Edit correction

Heh, believe me, I'm not trying to get Farm Town put up on this site. But, if there is someone that actually wants it up here, I don't think it would be right to deny them, since, as I said above, it seems to meet all the criteria. I thought it was an interesting topic and decided to put my two cents in :) Thanks much for the info though^^ I guess any Farm Town supporters that wander in will be able to use it as well.

Originally posted by Draco91
...

I don't want to see it listed on this site because I consider it sub-par. Then again, Furcadia is listed too. So I have no argument against it whatsoever. And there are obviously people that think it is good enough to be played. Is it an MMO? Yes, technically. Should it be listed? I don't see why not. Do I want to see it here? No, not really.

FWIW, I don't want to see it here either.

But this is why I raised the issue.

When MMORPG.com created the 'rules' for games to be listed here they may have been impossible to meet except for all but the very best games from professional developers.

I don't believe it is the case any more.  Games like Farm Town are now becoming increasingly common and the tools to make them are readily available and very user friendly even for rank amateurs.

Now, I don't want to be a 'snob' about this.  I like games - all games.  I respect Farm Town for what it is, but, should it be listed here?

Is that what MMORPG.com and /or its members want?

This is an issue I think needs review. The issue is not going away and with games like Champions Online muddying the waters between Multi player and Massive Multi player then we can expect a lot of confusion in future.

I am a proponent of '500 players in one WORLD (or instance)' FWIW.