Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Mortemia

Whoa, getting a bit defensive here eh? Don't worry, I'm not here to bash YOUR game.

I wasn't talking about Champions Online here, just MMORPGs generally that has taken steps towards item shops, getting away from their customers with €s glowing in their eyes.

Though I don't see why Cryptic wants to take this approach either. I just hate the idea of not giving everything for customers that are already paying for the product.

 

Yes, exactly. I used to spend more than $100 a month on games (still do occasionally) before I started playing MMOs. It's not the cost that bothers me. It's simply not fair to give any competitive advantage to people who can spend more money. Period.

And before someone spouts the "life's not fair" cliche - I don't care about 'life' not being fair. We are Human beings with morals and ethics. Fairness IS supposed to be our goal. If not, don't ever complain about ANYTHING.

This guy never played a MMO... or he is just blind.

Even LOTRO a amazing leveling game had gold farmers all around and level up services (Bree spam was terrible)

CoH a game WITHOUT endgame AND economy (before issue 11 ish) HAD gold sellers and level up services.

Even F2P games are full of bots farming something (either levels or gold) to sell ....

There is no MMO + RPG without them. The difference here is that Cryptic is not trying to sell gold or levels on its own cash shop (that would be stupid, cause a chinese farmer would just sell it cheaper...). They are trying a new business system... and like you or not, its here and most likely not going anywhere.

Be ready for changes on the MMORPG market or you will have to stop playing them... oh wait, you never played  a MMORPG so you are safe ;-)

The issue is that Cryptic is assuming or expecting their consumers to:

1 - Purchase the game

2 - Pay a sub fee

3 - Use the store for MT's

----

For me, any of the 2 are acceptable but asking or expecting the consumer to do all 3 is going too far.

And as someone else said, these companies know that you won't make money in the store selling useless things and that the real money comes when the store opens up to game changing things.

Granted, I have no clue if this will ever happen or exactly what the CO's store will have in it, but I personally am going to give the game several months and see to what extent the MT's effect (or do not effect) game play and then make my decision to play.

I dont care what the devs say about the items they will be selling. Do you really think they will just sell cosmetic items? Wait until the game releases, you will see the real intentions for the shop.

Originally posted by Moretrinkets

I dont care what the devs say about the items they will be selling. Do you really think they will just sell cosmetic items? Wait until the game releases, you will see the real intentions for the shop.

That is correct, but if you had read what the devs said numerous times. YOU CAN GET ANYTHING IN THE GAME THROUGH QUESTS, DROPS ETC> that can be bought in the game shop. I hope you kids understand it now.

are all the people complaining about the item mall in the 10-17 year old age bracket? if so that would make sense to me. most of them dont have the means to spend the cash on the item mall so therefore they are pissed about it. asking mom and dad to fork out the cash so you can have that cape to make you look cooler than everyone else first  just isnt going to fly.

I like the option of buying stuff in order to save time.

In fact, the only thing I DON'T want to pay extra for is cosmetics, I think those should be included in the sub fee.

But if they end up selling perks like extra xp or gold, or something else that would otherwise be a grind, I'll pony up because time is money and at least I'd have the option.

But I doubt they will. This is going to be like CoX's costume packs.

As long as the cash shop isn't in your face every 5 minutes(which it isn't) unlike FreeRealms, then it shouldn't matter if there's one in the game.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

I have said before that I do not believe that they will NEVER put in buyable items that give competitive advantages. Even if that's not the plan now, they might well change their minds later on.

That's the problem then isn't it. Slippery slope is a logical falacy for a reason. Just because they do one thing does not mean that they will change and then do something else.

I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

Also, if you don't believe Cryptic, how can you believe that ANY and ALL MMOG's won't have balance effecting items for sale? Obviously you won't believe anyone based on their 'policy' or a promise during a dev interview. Is Blizzard going to change their minds and put high end raid gear in their TCG? Will Aion start selling Godstones?

Originally posted by templarga

The issue is that Cryptic is assuming or expecting their consumers to:

1 - Purchase the game

2 - Pay a sub fee

3 - Use the store for MT's

----

For me, any of the 2 are acceptable but asking or expecting the consumer to do all 3 is going too far.

And as someone else said, these companies know that you won't make money in the store selling useless things and that the real money comes when the store opens up to game changing things.

Granted, I have no clue if this will ever happen or exactly what the CO's store will have in it, but I personally am going to give the game several months and see to what extent the MT's effect (or do not effect) game play and then make my decision to play.

You're loading your wording by saying that they are 'expecting' you to buy things from the MT shop. Does Blizzard 'expect' you to buy their TCG? No, of course not, but there are some perks for doing so.

Originally posted by Aganazer

 I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

THIS, this has so much thisness it transends the normal definitions of this and redfines it.

The arguement that people against MT's are poor or underage is a stupid one and you know it.  I spend plenty of money on entertainment. The differance though is if I feel that entertainment is worth the extra money.  When i went to see the new Star Trek i felt it was worth going to the best theater in town to see. When i went to see GI Joe... i went to the cheapest theater in town.   Sure its only a $5 differance, but to me Gi Joe simply didnt look like a good enough movie to warrent me spending extra money.

The arguement that we can get anything in the cash shop ingame is also FALSE. Anything with INGAME EFFECTS can be earned in the game.  However many people played CoH for the cosmetic fluff myself inculded. Once my $15 a month was no longer getting me the content developed and supplied to me that I wanted, i quit the game. i am not going to pay an additional $20 to recieve the full game.

Many of the fluff lovers in CoX and soon to be CO would be MUCH happier, if those MT costume items were able to be earned ingame. But they arnt. Their is no way for me to earn that set of bug wings, i HAVE to give more money to use them. Thats where it doesnt sit well... Thats where I have to go "well is this game worth me paying more for over another game?" Once you MT the services people want on top of sub fees, you have to 1) be clearly better than any game with only sub fees or only mt's.  and 2) should be better than any current game following the same buisness model in order to take those customers.

so I have played CO.... its an okay game, the control scheme is a tad kiddie, the server instance shards are to small, and its rather generic overall. Fun, but not so fun that I feel they deserve more than the cheap theater prices.

Originally posted by Aganazer

That's the problem then isn't it. Slippery slope is a logical falacy for a reason. Just because they do one thing does not mean that they will change and then do something else.

I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

Actually 'slippery slope' is a tried and true method of manipulating people. Take a little, then a little more, ...

Some people here in this thread have already stated an interest in 'sentencing people to death for traffic violations'. Some 'residents' will support any hare-brained idea.

Originally posted by templarga

And as someone else said, these companies know that you won't make money in the store selling useless things and that the real money comes when the store opens up to game changing things.

 

Well if someone said it, then it must be true!

Hahahaha....

So all the games selling fluffy stuff are just a .... I don't know... myth? Wow! .................................................................................

I've played a couple "free" games that had MT where you could buy game changing items. I never bought any, and I still had fun playing the game. I played a couple games where you could buy non game changing items. I never bought any of those and I still had fun playing the game.

Moral to this story? A game is either fun or it isn't. If it's fun, who cares if someone else might spend real world money to get something extra? That in no way makes the fun you had any less fun... unless you let it.

Me personally? I had fun playing CO. Whether it has MT or not, game-changing or not, it's still fun. I'll still play it.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Aganazer

That's the problem then isn't it. Slippery slope is a logical falacy for a reason. Just because they do one thing does not mean that they will change and then do something else.

I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

Actually 'slippery slope' is a tried and true method of manipulating people. Take a little, then a little more, ...

Some people here in this thread have already stated an interest in 'sentencing people to death for traffic violations'. Some 'residents' will support any hare-brained idea.

Yes, it is a good method of manipulation.  This is why people will fight tooth and nail against MT in any form.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Aganazer

That's the problem then isn't it. Slippery slope is a logical falacy for a reason. Just because they do one thing does not mean that they will change and then do something else.

I mean, as an example, does your state support the death penalty? If so, are you worried that they might start sentencing people to death for traffic violations? Of course not. The residents wouldn't support it. Its ridiculous to even consider.

Actually 'slippery slope' is a tried and true method of manipulating people. Take a little, then a little more, ...

Some people here in this thread have already stated an interest in 'sentencing people to death for traffic violations'. Some 'residents' will support any hare-brained idea.

 

Yes, it is a good method of manipulation.  This is why people will fight tooth and nail against MT in any form.

Yet MT has been around since UO and exists in most mmo's. What makes this mmo special? Oh yea, it hasn't released, so all the so called "prophets" are working to create the future they predict. Uo has MT, WOW has mt, any game that had a collector's edition essentially sold you items for money. Why is this game so different?

Cheers!