We wanted to love WAR.  We tried, so very hard.  We played Destruction and Order.  I LOVE MY BRIGHT WIZARD!  However...

A few things killed the game for us, and I'm betting money that what caused us such heart aches also have driven others away.  

1.  RVR.

No, the RVR concept was not at fault, nor was it the fault of the classes, or anything like that.  I'm an old DAoC hand, I remember the joy, the fierce pride, and fun of the "Frontier Days" of DAoC.   We didn't go out there to take keeps, and forts for gear.  We didn't go for the "I hope I win the spin and get my loot"... no we went there because it was OUR TURF, and by the GODS we were gonna defend it!  

WAR doesn't have any "fun" in the RVR!   I got so frustrated, running with the big groups.. it was always the same thing:  "Hey, the Destruction raid is over there, so we'll go over here and take those undefended keeps..."   It was all about getting people gear.

EXCUSE ME, but that is not, has not, and will never be "fun" for me.  I personally blame Blizzard for this mentality.  It's about getting "Mine's"  People wanted the gear first, and foremost.   There was no sense of ownership, no over-riding reason to RVR other then gear.  

They should have never tied gear in with the RVR.. let me rephrase that, you can tie "kills" to rewards that can later be gained in town, but tying the taking of a keep to gear?  That was fail from the word go.   Speaking of gear, running instanced to get gear.. GEAR should be 90% crafted.

2.  The lag issues.  

Yes, I WANT 500 people in an RVR scrum, no doubt about it... not gonna happen.  The internet, the computers... it's just not there yet.  Someday, maybe...  Since it's not feasible, shard the RVR areas.  Is that the popular choice?  Not at first, but it's better to have stable play then "LAG OUT".  

3.  CC.  Sorry, even as a  BW I could see the effect of CC being bad.  It's just... not good in RVR.  No one likes being disabled.  Sure it would be fine if it was once in a while, but we all know that wasn't the case in game.

4.  RvRvR was a success in DAoC... WAR needed that, it doesn't have it... and let's face it, it got old fighting the same enemies over and over.  I'm sure there were good lore reasons not to do that, but they should have.

5.  "The rest of the game".  Crafting sucked, the PVE just wasn't inspired and there wasn't much else to do.  There was no sense of adventure like DAoC had.  It was too... structured.  

Perhaps one day we might fire the game back up, but I'm thinking no.  And that makes us very sad.  WAR was the last great MMO we had high hopes for being fun, and it just wasn't.    

Originally posted by MrVicchio

5.  "The rest of the game".  Crafting sucked, the PVE just wasn't inspired and there wasn't much else to do.  There was no sense of adventure like DAoC had.  It was too... structured.  

   

Yeah this is the feeling i was left with, too.

Scenarios were ok to drop in on for some quick hits, but the overall PvP held no meaning for me. And the rest of the game doesn't do anything particularly well (Crafting is horrible).

Plenty of other games out there, tho. You're pretty much guaranteed to find one you like if you poke around and get some free trials.

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by MrVicchio

5.  "The rest of the game".  Crafting sucked, the PVE just wasn't inspired and there wasn't much else to do.  There was no sense of adventure like DAoC had.  It was too... structured.  

   

 

Yeah this is the feeling i was left with, too.

Scenarios were ok to drop in on for some quick hits, but the overall PvP held no meaning for me. And the rest of the game doesn't do anything particularly well (Crafting is horrible).

Plenty of other games out there, tho. You're pretty much guaranteed to find one you like if you poke around and get some free trials.

Far be it from me to defend Warhammer, but I like the crafting in the game. My favourite crafting in WoW is Alchemy + Herbalism, and I like Apothecary + Cultivation a LOT more. Talisman Making needs some work, for sure. There could be a lot more crafting, but they made it clear before release that armour and weapons would not be crafted. I knew that going in.

As for RvR not being meaningful - hell yes, that's right. Mythic clearly wanted RvR to be painless (probably to not discourage PvEers from participating). War is quite pathetic when comes to consequences.  This is one of my biggest beefs with the design. It's STILL way more meaningful than WoW's PvP, though.

As for CC: Once you get to Tier 3, there is a SICK amount of it in this game. I honestly don't know what they were thinking. That this was going to be exclusively a PvE game, perhaps? No idea. Only snare and (perhaps) KB should be in the PvP action. Do like WoW, and limit much of the CC to non-humanoid targets.

Is this going to be the Why I left Warhammer post?

When I login the game I wanna do PVP but most of the time have situations as below:

1. No people

2. Small group doing undefended objects

3. Warband doing something that I was not interested in such as PQ, scenario

4. Nothing to do because all keeps and battle objects were under control, still waiting opponent to retake

5. Opponents is overwhleming to game 

How to play under such situations? 

If I wanna play PVE there will be so many games with much better and entertaining PVE contents than Warhammer. 

I agree with everything written here.  Most of which I couldn't say better, so I won't.  The only thing I will add to this topic:  About a month ago I decided to re-sub and see what was going on in the world of WAR.  After reinstalling the game, updating, etc. I was shocked to learn I was unable to enter the game. 

Account deleted?  No.  Credit Card registration problem?  No.

Problem was that the game is so effin bugged that there is actually a bug that PREVENTS old players from joining in again.  I mean come on... I'm no game dev. but it's bad form to block folks who are WILLING TO GIVE YOU CASH TO PLAY YOUR GAME!!!!

I talked to a service rep the next Monday (weekend resub).  I was shocked to hear him say that this bug existed and that there was nothing they could do about it.  I told him no disrespect, but that's pretty fucked up.  He replied by saying simply, "Yeah, it's pretty bad when the CS reps are more professional than the dev squad.

GG Mythic... you sunk your own battle ship.

I agree with OP that the game did not work for me either, but "PVP for gear" really is one of the few things that made sense in RvR and is an historic part of raiding.  Vikings raided the coasts of Britain in real-life RvR (in a sense) to gain loot.  PVP should really be all about gear.

i play a shaman on Iron Rock.....Lag..no issues really  at all  i simply dont notice it   sure i get a hitch here and there but overall nothing...CC doesnt play a huge roll for Pugs  due to CC times and such but yeah for premades  thats how you down people..plain and simple....

still playing and still loving the game....but there are still balance issues and w/e im not getting into that war

I'm a former member of Warhammer Online and didnt sub after first month. Seems like i didnt miss to fun, WAR started to lose too much players.

"the PVE just wasn't inspired"

I agree with the OP here, I'm not much of a PVP player and love PVE and questing. To me it is the most fun part of a game.

What filled me with remorse is that I am a big fan of the Warhammer Fantasy table top game and buy the monthly mag diligently. When I entered Warhammer I though I would find a wonderful world full of Warhammer lore and questing ,discovering storylines "FAIL".

By Tier 3 I was so bored of PVE I was actually doing PVP to releave my boredom and I must say that Warhammer still has the best Battlegrounds I have experienced, way better than WOW in excitement but just not enought to keep a person going. The Castle sieges were terrible as was detailed in other posts as you can wait for days for a Siege and usually when it happens, there is nobody to defend so you get slaughtered or so many people pitch up it's lag heaven and you get DCed.

I don't know why Warhammer couldn't have been built like Aion with a PVE and PVP module alongside each other, I mean the game looks good, the classes are fun to play, BG's are great just content is so lacking in both areas.

A great game that is just not meeting it's full potential. Hopefully the Warhammer 40K mmo will be better :(.

I like the crafting system, it is simple enough to be fun and not the horrible clunky systems you find in AOC and Aion.

The new patch that is on the test server atm, seems to fix many things, it sort of shows that the devs haven't given up and are still trying to please everyone.

I love warhammer, but I am fairly new to the game, so only time will tell.  I have yet to notice this shortage of players that I keep hearing about.

Originally posted by MrVicchio

We wanted to love WAR.  We tried, so very hard.  We played Destruction and Order.  I LOVE MY BRIGHT WIZARD!  However...

 

A few things killed the game for us, and I'm betting money that what caused us such heart aches also have driven others away.  

 

1.  RVR.

 

No, the RVR concept was not at fault, nor was it the fault of the classes, or anything like that.  I'm an old DAoC hand, I remember the joy, the fierce pride, and fun of the "Frontier Days" of DAoC.   We didn't go out there to take keeps, and forts for gear.  We didn't go for the "I hope I win the spin and get my loot"... no we went there because it was OUR TURF, and by the GODS we were gonna defend it!  

WAR doesn't have any "fun" in the RVR!   I got so frustrated, running with the big groups.. it was always the same thing:  "Hey, the Destruction raid is over there, so we'll go over here and take those undefended keeps..."   It was all about getting people gear.

EXCUSE ME, but that is not, has not, and will never be "fun" for me.  I personally blame Blizzard for this mentality.  It's about getting "Mine's"  People wanted the gear first, and foremost.   There was no sense of ownership, no over-riding reason to RVR other then gear.  

They should have never tied gear in with the RVR.. let me rephrase that, you can tie "kills" to rewards that can later be gained in town, but tying the taking of a keep to gear?  That was fail from the word go.   Speaking of gear, running instanced to get gear.. GEAR should be 90% crafted.

 

2.  The lag issues.  

 

Yes, I WANT 500 people in an RVR scrum, no doubt about it... not gonna happen.  The internet, the computers... it's just not there yet.  Someday, maybe...  Since it's not feasible, shard the RVR areas.  Is that the popular choice?  Not at first, but it's better to have stable play then "LAG OUT".  

 

3.  CC.  Sorry, even as a  BW I could see the effect of CC being bad.  It's just... not good in RVR.  No one likes being disabled.  Sure it would be fine if it was once in a while, but we all know that wasn't the case in game.

 

4.  RvRvR was a success in DAoC... WAR needed that, it doesn't have it... and let's face it, it got old fighting the same enemies over and over.  I'm sure there were good lore reasons not to do that, but they should have.

 

5.  "The rest of the game".  Crafting sucked, the PVE just wasn't inspired and there wasn't much else to do.  There was no sense of adventure like DAoC had.  It was too... structured.  

 

Perhaps one day we might fire the game back up, but I'm thinking no.  And that makes us very sad.  WAR was the last great MMO we had high hopes for being fun, and it just wasn't.    

Blizzards fault you say?  Hmm, what an interesting and unique concept-I wonder if anybody has thought about that before.  I mean after all, Blizzard is the grandfather of all MMOs companies and basically wrote the book on MMO development, right?  Right.....

ANYWAYS, you should look into Aion.  It looks very promising and 1) has a ton of rvr and really encourages it. 2) Has AMAZINGLY smooth gameplay with almost no stutter and lag even in very populated areas.  3)  Has about a quarter of the CC that WAR does, and also less AOE-fest.  4) Has Elyos vs Asmodian vs Balaur.  Elyos and Asmodian are player control, while Balaur is npc yet all the factions are in a war against each other. 5) Crafting is actually important in this game and used often unlike Warhammer.  You even gain experience towards your character's level when you craft.

---

Originally posted by Crosswire

I like the crafting system, it is simple enough to be fun and not the horrible clunky systems you find in AOC and Aion.

---

There is no way you can compare this to AoC, AION or any other MMO except maybe for a F2P game. That's about as in-depth as it seemed.

I'm not even sure you can call it a crafting system, you can't even make armor or weapons.

Based on how the game turned out and especially this crafting system, I'd actually wonder what they did spend near 100 million dollars on.

You will find 500 man pvp seiges in darkfall

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 4.  RvRvR was a success in DAoC... WAR needed that, it doesn't have it... and let's face it, it got old fighting the same enemies over and over.  I'm sure there were good lore reasons not to do that, but they should have.

the thing is, it really isnt a lore thing. the way they went with it actually makes no sense. those factions never would have teamed up together, they would have been separate...they flippin hate each other...and there are even faction splits among the factions, lol. different gods they worshipped, etc. not only did they f up the lore side of it that way, they f'ed up the pvp, its the same reasons why my wife and i both quit, also.

I played at launch and for about 6/7 weeks after. I went back for a short period when they offered the free two weeks to vets.

I found the same as everybody else and quickly realized little had changed when I returned.

Unfortunately the game was over-hyped and lacked enough depth to keep people occupied for long periods. Scenarios took people away from open RvR leaving the zones a complete ghost town. It's a shame as the game had potential but it was badly implemented.

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 4.  RvRvR was a success in DAoC... WAR needed that, it doesn't have it... and let's face it, it got old fighting the same enemies over and over.  I'm sure there were good lore reasons not to do that, but they should have.

 

the thing is, it really isnt a lore thing. the way they went with it actually makes no sense. those factions never would have teamed up together, they would have been separate...they flippin hate each other...and there are even faction splits among the factions, lol. different gods they worshipped, etc. not only did they f up the lore side of it that way, they f'ed up the pvp, its the same reasons why my wife and i both quit, also.

They didn't go aganist the lore in game faction wise The empire/high elves and dwarfs do join forces regularly to fight large threats and the disorder forces do fight together although they normally have there own agenda's and end up backstabbing each other.

Originally posted by Newhopes

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 4.  RvRvR was a success in DAoC... WAR needed that, it doesn't have it... and let's face it, it got old fighting the same enemies over and over.  I'm sure there were good lore reasons not to do that, but they should have.

 

the thing is, it really isnt a lore thing. the way they went with it actually makes no sense. those factions never would have teamed up together, they would have been separate...they flippin hate each other...and there are even faction splits among the factions, lol. different gods they worshipped, etc. not only did they f up the lore side of it that way, they f'ed up the pvp, its the same reasons why my wife and i both quit, also.

 

They didn't go aganist the lore in game faction wise The empire/high elves and dwarfs do join forces regularly to fight large threats and the disorder forces do fight together although they normally have there own agenda's and end up backstabbing each other.

maybe, occasionally, they are not really friendly to each other though. it would have been a pairing out of need, not because they wanted to be allies.

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by Newhopes

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 4.  RvRvR was a success in DAoC... WAR needed that, it doesn't have it... and let's face it, it got old fighting the same enemies over and over.  I'm sure there were good lore reasons not to do that, but they should have.

 

the thing is, it really isnt a lore thing. the way they went with it actually makes no sense. those factions never would have teamed up together, they would have been separate...they flippin hate each other...and there are even faction splits among the factions, lol. different gods they worshipped, etc. not only did they f up the lore side of it that way, they f'ed up the pvp, its the same reasons why my wife and i both quit, also.

 

They didn't go aganist the lore in game faction wise The empire/high elves and dwarfs do join forces regularly to fight large threats and the disorder forces do fight together although they normally have there own agenda's and end up backstabbing each other.

maybe, occasionally, they are not really friendly to each other though. it would have been a pairing out of need, not because they wanted to be allies.

Disorder forces hate anyone and everyone apart from the greenskins who just love to fight, order however are  the other way round even though the Elves and drawfs don't really get along those two races have a strong bonds with the Empire and will help even when there's little or no benefit to themselfs.

As some1 who played the old paper warhammer games i really wanted to love this game, as im hearing alot of people in this thread say.  As an old-school RPer i was lookin' forward to some massive pve content as well as a little pvp/rvr when i didnt feel like raiding.  Im sure u all know how i felt when i got to the end game stuff.  Then there was the monoteny that the rvr became.  I think some of this was due to the terrible seige engines employed.  Sucks that this IP was pretty well ruined for me, kinda hard not to feel bitter and rant a bit

Originally posted by sylentnyte

You will find 500 man pvp seiges in darkfall

And you'll be playing a game that looks like a copy of Hexen 2 made in some guy's basement.