Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimsmith08

Looking forward to the NDA drop on this..

 

Just saying this: If the open Beta doesn't let you see everything which was in closed Beta and the NDA doesn't drop - WATCH OUT.

 

Open beta is the full game.  From 1-40.

Well, full game minus the last big patch or two because of Open Beta observations. But yeah, I'm guessing there isn't a chunk of game content that they're holding in secret to be only available come release if that's what you mean.
 

I think we can expect some good things from this dev team though as far as additional content and mechanics over time come release.

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by gorillaz951 
 

I agree with nearly everything you say.
 

Both are very fun MMOs, but the fun is delivered differently in time consumed. Champions will be fun right off the bat. Aion maybe not as fun (But don't get me wrong, it will still be great). Aion is more like Lineage 2 was. You had to really put effort and time into your character. It will be rough and tiresome along the way, but worth it in the end. With Champions you are awesome all the time. But your awesomeness won't feel as rewarding 30 levels later.

Two different games to fit different gamestyles. I'll be playing both for sure.

And btw, I have played both betas.

 

 

This is a pretty good summation without getting into ridiculous details.  After playing both games, I chose CO.  If I didn't have a job, and had nothing but time to spend playing MMOs all day, I think Aion would likely be more rewarding.

Yeah I'm kind of in the same boat. I tried Aion, but it didn't hook me right away. CO hooked me like a bad habit right from the start.

I object to the term "generic WoW clone" based on the simple fact that most of the newer MMO's will never attain the success of WoW in either monetary recompense or subscription numbers.

(PS: I'm not a WoW Fan)

When talking about CO, at least have the decency to call it a CoH clone...

Originally posted by Butterball

I object to the term "generic WoW clone" based on the simple fact that most of the newer MMO's will never attain the success of WoW in either monetary recompense or subscription numbers.

(PS: I'm not a WoW Fan)

 

When talking about CO, at least have the decency to call it a CoH clone...

you seem a bit confused...the title was not in reference to CO, it was my opinon as to why we have so many of what people like to call "WoW clones" ( even tho WoW cloned alot of features of other games ).  Its the fact that the majority of people seem to be vocal about change in the genre but when a game comes out that seems to be good ( such as a game with no classes ) they show little or no interest in the game.
 

Originally posted by 4Renziks

1s't this is not a flame or a troll post, because in fact I have never played champions and iam only using whats on paper.  Also, for the sake of argument I want to leave the micro transaction arguement out of the equation because this is merely a business decision and while it could have a major impact for alot of people , i want to discuss the game itself and not it business decisions.  

I feel Champions Online is not getting enough attention...at least on these forums.  Here is a game that is getting rid of the same ole classes system, is not elves and orcs, has a butt load of customazation options, and has a list of things that are new or farely new but still seems niche.  The argument that is a superhero genre is ludicrious because if you look at all the super hereo movies that have been comming out in the last 8 years paints a different picture. 

Here is a random list of things I find interesting about Champions:

Create a character - yes finally i dont have to choose between 4 types of hair, skin tone, and 1 accessory.  This is a big big big thing here that i think people still dont get...you can make a character look like you want.

Custom skill tweaking - Yes, thats right! you can change the color of your powers to fit your character, and in some cases change where the power emits ( hands, chest , eyes ).  

There is armor! - Even tho i played CoX for about a year and enjoyed it, i did miss those item drops that boost my character, this changes with Champions and in addition to all the cosmetic customazation you can now itemize gear and statistics, very cool!

Public quests - Round 2 of public quest, and most people say one of the best features of WAR, It fits perfectly in a super hereo setting and here is to hope cryptic improves on the forumul

Active blocking - I dont know if this has been done before, but i like it...instead of having dice decide when you block, you decide...very cool.

Create your own nemesis -  this one iam sceptical...it will be fun to create my arch enemie, but it would have been cooler if this game had villians, but i guess it doesnt fit the lore and this could be a good subsitute..ill have to wait till level 25 to see.

Dozen + ways to travel - Pff Aion and your 45sec fly (not a flame , well kinda but i hope this game does well too)  Champions gives you alot of options in terms of travel...and it has Aerial fighting just like the game mentioned. 

Sidekicks - not new, but a system like this should be in every MMO imo.

1 server - i always like this about EvE and i hope it workds to CO benefit.

Final, NO CLASSES - thank allah, thank budda, thank jesus, thank the sun....classes are so 2000.

 

There is probably more that i havent covered...but iam excited for a change.  I hope this game gets more advertisment and attention then CoH got..for now i will just  have to accept anything that is not WoW formulaic will be niche.

 

 

 

 

WEll said.  CO doesn't seem to get much advertizing but I'm excited to play it too.  I am sooooooooooooooooooo sick of hack and slash and elves and orcs.............. Change is GOOD!

Originally posted by 4Renziks

you seem a bit confused...the title was not in reference to CO, it was my opinon as to why we have so many of what people like to call "WoW clones" ( even tho WoW cloned alot of features of other games ).  Its the fact that the majority of people seem to be vocal about change in the genre but when a game comes out that seems to be good ( such as a game with no classes ) they show little or no interest in the game.

 

See - one problem is that 'no classes' ISN'T a good thing to many people, including me.

It IS different, but not better. To provide a worthy alternative to WoW, a game has to be different and at least AS GOOD.

I am neither a WoW zealot, nor a basher. WoW does some things well, and others poorly. What I would like is a cross between WoW and Warhammer Online. WoW's performance and PvE (without the end game gear grind), with Warhammer's PvP (minus the CC and the end-game suck). That would be a good game, and worth switching for.

perhaps the confusion lies more in how you worded the title of the thread.

and no, I wasn't confused, merely attempting to put a little accuracy into the discussion.

Using a description as a "WoW clone"  does not make sense when dealing with a MMO based on a Superhero setting, thereby my insistence that CO should be considered a CoH clone.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

See - one problem is that 'no classes' ISN'T a good thing to many people, including me.

This is just because you have no imagination and you need the game to tell you what to do next. that's why today's MMO are so linear.

After playing this the past 2 weeks cb im so jonesing to play this game tommorow.. playing solo was hella fun.. now that my bro is gonna be in open beta as well this is gonna be a blast.  Dont be put off by the cash shop this game is very addicting and the gamplay/combat is best ive ever played in a mmo minus the occasional beta bug here and there. if you are somone who is unsure i suggest you get  in the open beta just to try it first hand. Theres over 50000+ keys ... see you in game

From what i've seen when i've been checking when a friend playes, only one faction only instanced pvp wich is booring. if it were ffa the one faction thing would be ok. The thing about just having one server would be ok if everyone wouldnt be in different "channels" so it feels deserted anyways.

Let me summarize this post for you lazy readers.

"I have never played the game but I have seen some videos and articles and this game looks like the best game since the invention of computer gaming because to begin with it doesn't have stinking elves."

You obviously didn't play AoC or WAR did you?

Just wait another a little more and actually try the freaking game for yourselves instead of some hyping fanboy who didn't even PLAY THE GAME!

It could be the best game ever or it could suck ball. Time will tell. See for your self during the OPEN beta... oh wait...

Originally posted by Butterball

and no, I wasn't confused, merely attempting to put a little accuracy into the discussion.

Using a description as a "WoW clone"  does not make sense when dealing with a MMO based on a Superhero setting, thereby my insistence that CO should be considered a CoH clone.

That's probably because you don't understand the expression "WoW Clone", it doesn't only means it is the same setting (fantasy) but it means the gameplay, quest driven, level base and classe base, dumbdown crafting etc..........

So games like Champions Online, Fallen Earth, Eathrise, Spellborn think outside the box and try to do something different, in setting and gameplay. So this is why the OP refer as why their is so many "WoW Clone" in the industry, because when something new/different comes out people are too scared of it and want their old gameplay back. So companies tries to get their part of the cake and copie WoW.

Originally posted by urbanmonkey

Let me summarize this post for you lazy readers.

"I have never played the game but I have seen some videos and articles and this game looks like the best game since the invention of computer gaming because to begin with it doesn't have stinking elves."

You obviously didn't play AoC or WAR did you?

Just wait another a little more and actually try the freaking game for yourselves instead of some hyping fanboy who didn't even PLAY THE GAME!

It could be the best game ever or it could suck ball. Time will tell. See for your self during the OPEN beta... oh wait...

 

I didnt hype this game really, all i did was say what i thought was interesting features of the game...this for some reason got in your crawl.  From your other post i see your not a fan of the game, but maybe you should eat your own words.

Originally posted by Nagalium

From what i've seen when i've been checking when a friend playes, only one faction only instanced pvp wich is booring. if it were ffa the one faction thing would be ok. The thing about just having one server would be ok if everyone wouldnt be in different "channels" so it feels deserted anyways.

There is ffa pvp.

4 types of PvP in the games:

1- Duel 1 vs 1

2- Arena 5 vs 5

3- BASH 20 players FFA, like a last man standing, this one is outside map

4- Finally, there are the Apocalypse maps, which kind of serve as a Danger Room (if you're familiar with Marvel's X-Men comics). The Apocalypse maps are supposed to act as training aids to get heroes ready for a major event. In this case, one team gets to play as the "bad guys" as the teams battle to eliminate the two leaders on each team. The battle is set inside a prison with narrow corridors that serve as choke points. To prevent one team from simply rushing into the enemy's main area at the start of the match, sentry guns and crews clog the hallways and must be eliminated before you can advance past them. On top of that, there are various computer stations that you can seize; doing so can call in reinforcements in the form of minions and even other heroes.

One server with different channel is so much better, you never have to worry if you pick the wrong server or not or if you meet someone who plays on a different server and you have to pay to transfert I don't understand how it can feels deserted, it is not like there will be a thousand channels at anyone time with 1 player in each, they open more when more people log in.

You see, back in the days when there was no instance, you and you friend teamed up to go do a cerrtain thing, but when you got there, a group was already going it, so there was no way for you to do it. After came the instance for donjons and raids, so you don't have to wait for the group to leave, that took away apart of the interaction in the community. Now we have a game with one server and many channels, so let say there is 4 channels open, you see 3 of them have 100 ppl and one as 50 ppl and you want to solo stuff, then you go to the channel with less ppl and the other way around if you want to group.

Like Cryptic said, they need 100 000 to break even and start making profit, so if they have 100 000 or less, your server will never feel empty unlike a regullar let say WoW server which can hold what 5000 ppl from each faction. One server gives you more freedom/choice as if you what to see ppl or not.

I have to say I think the OP worded the title improperly as well.

Essentially what I think he's trying to say is along the lines of "The lack of attention that CO is getting, is why we have so many wow clones". At least I think that's what he meant.

Anyways, couple things I wanted to point out from skimming the thread:

Villainy: They are looking at doing player villains, but they want it to be done right. They don't want you to "be exactly like heroes, except pretend you're evil". They want to make sure being a villain is more than just a colour swap.

MicroTransactions: I hate to burst the bubble of people freaking out about this, but most games have microtransactions in one form or another. EVE has PLEX you can buy with real money and sell for ingame money. WoW you can pay to change your characters sex, name, server, even faction and race now. Oh WoW also has their TCG, where if you buy their cards you can sometimes get an item ingame. Pay to go to or watch a Blizzcon feed and you get ingame pets. All of this stuff is nothing new. As far as the stuff CO will have in their store, the majority of it will be attainable ingame, if not all of it. Anything that affects gameplay will be attainable ingame. The rest of the stuff will just be cosmetic, more likely than not.

PvP: They DO have pvp, you even get experience and item drops/unlocks through it. You could level 1-40 only doing PvP if you wanted. There's even a "DotA" style pvp scenario (think battlegrounds).

The customization in this game goes so deep it's crazy. Even your powers become somewhat customizeable, you and another guy may be shooting the same beam power, but they may look completely different, yours may come out of your eyes where his comes from his hand, his might be purple where yours could be green, his might actually have different graphics than yours depending on the rank. Two heroes might team up, each using the "single blade" attack set, but where one might be using a crazy anime style katana, the other might be using a gothic looking ice flail, or any number of other things.

Originally posted by Blurr

I have to say I think the OP worded the title improperly as well.

Essentially what I think he's trying to say is along the lines of "The lack of attention that CO is getting, is why we have so many wow clones". At least I think that's what he meant.

Anyways, couple things I wanted to point out from skimming the thread:

Villainy: They are looking at doing player villains, but they want it to be done right. They don't want you to "be exactly like heroes, except pretend you're evil". They want to make sure being a villain is more than just a colour swap.

MicroTransactions: I hate to burst the bubble of people freaking out about this, but most games have microtransactions in one form or another. EVE has PLEX you can buy with real money and sell for ingame money. WoW you can pay to change your characters sex, name, server, even faction and race now. Oh WoW also has their TCG, where if you buy their cards you can sometimes get an item ingame. Pay to go to or watch a Blizzcon feed and you get ingame pets. All of this stuff is nothing new. As far as the stuff CO will have in their store, the majority of it will be attainable ingame, if not all of it. Anything that affects gameplay will be attainable ingame. The rest of the stuff will just be cosmetic, more likely than not.

PvP: They DO have pvp, you even get experience and item drops/unlocks through it. You could level 1-40 only doing PvP if you wanted. There's even a "DotA" style pvp scenario (think battlegrounds).

The customization in this game goes so deep it's crazy. Even your powers become somewhat customizeable, you and another guy may be shooting the same beam power, but they may look completely different, yours may come out of your eyes where his comes from his hand, his might be purple where yours could be green, his might actually have different graphics than yours depending on the rank. Two heroes might team up, each using the "single blade" attack set, but where one might be using a crazy anime style katana, the other might be using a gothic looking ice flail, or any number of other things.

I have a pre-order, have downloaded the client and am waiting for it to be unlocked so that I can play the Beta.  I have my reservations about the in game item shop, but I played COX and didn't notice that one having a major impact on the game.  When I have played the game I will make up my mind(the only one I have a right to make up) about the playability/enjoyability of the game.  I will then play the game as it is released and see if they screwed it up or improved it with the release.  Playing the game is, in my opinion, the only true way to decide if I like the game.  To be truthful, while I hope others enjoy the game, my enjoyment of it is my only interest.  Note: I do not decide which movies to watch based on the opinion of the critics why would I base my opinion of which game to play on them - critics being those for or against the movie or game. 

Let's all see what the beta shows, and after that the release.  Here's hoping for an immensely entertaining game.

 Aion = grind like wow with a lot less content, better graphics, worse sound

Champions = the customization here is very robust, but the zoned maps may turn hc mmo fans off . . . depends

Both great games. When I played Aion I thought pft Champions doesn't have a chance until I played it. The one really good thing about zoned maps is the ability quickly and easily add content.

I think players looking for a fun change from WoW should look into Champions over Aion because it's a different experience. Don't get me wrong I like Aion, but Lineage II + WoW = Aion . . . if that is a formula you like jump in. If you played CoH and hated it don't play Champions, but if you kinda liked it then you'll enjoy Champions.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

To the shills and fanboys defending the cash shop:

 

I don't care what Roper or anyone else says. He's selling a product. Like any other salesman, he will say what it takes to convince you to spend your money. Once you have been playing for a year and the game-effect items come in, remember I told you so.

Been playing eq2 with a similar system for at least a year.  Honestly don't even know what they sell as nothing ever had any value or interest to me.  Sounds like CO is just following the same path already set in eq2.  Cosmetic items that really don't matter at all...

So just move to another game if the fear of the unknown is too much to handle.  I think there are a few games left that don't have any MT systems.  But I'll bet you in a year or two at most there won't be any games that haven't put in a cosmetic style MT.  From what SoE says a lot of people just love little cosmetic purchasable items and they are making a food amount of money on it.

Really this is just a bunch of people spreading FUD in the hope that CO will decide to not put MT in the game.  I got news for you, it ain't gonna happen and the MT won't hurt sales at all. 

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

To the shills and fanboys defending the cash shop:

 

I don't care what Roper or anyone else says. He's selling a product. Like any other salesman, he will say what it takes to convince you to spend your money. Once you have been playing for a year and the game-effect items come in, remember I told you so.

 

Been playing eq2 with a similar system for at least a year.  Honestly don't even know what they sell as nothing ever had any value or interest to me.  Sounds like CO is just following the same path already set in eq2.  Cosmetic items that really don't matter at all...

So just move to another game if the fear of the unknown is too much to handle.  I think there are a few games left that don't have any MT systems.  But I'll bet you in a year or two at most there won't be any games that haven't put in a cosmetic style MT.  From what SoE says a lot of people just love little cosmetic purchasable items and they are making a food amount of money on it.

Really this is just a bunch of people spreading FUD in the hope that CO will decide to not put MT in the game.  I got news for you, it ain't gonna happen and the MT won't hurt sales at all. 

It isn't just CO and EQ2.  City of Heroes/Villains has been selling unlock packs for how long now?  Even WoW has its "cash shop", except ITS version has WAAAAAAY more effect in game (name changes, recustomizations, server moves, and now FACTION changes [which really is the big one]).