Aren't they pretty much the same game? If people like WoW, they will probably like Aion. So what? I play for more than loot rewards and am disappointed by both games.

Originally posted by pb1285n

 You guys have NO clue what you are talking about. Let me clear some things up

1. Warcraft was not a well known brand when WoW came out, it was known among the gaming community but RTS for the most part is a niche genre.

2. Having a popular IP does not garner subs. Everyone said Matrix Online would kick the crap out of WoW and we saw how that ended up.

3. Games do not have to be complete, polished, accesible, or even that good to be popular. WoW was not polished and lacked an end game when it was released and at peak times you could wait 15+ minutes to log on.

What does a game need to be popular?

1. Low system requirements
 

2. Easy to use

 

3. People to talk about it

 

The majority of WoW players only joined because a friend or family member were playing. The problem with most MMOs is that the MMO community keeps it to themselves. Everyone was talking about World of Warcraft and people want to be apart of the crowd.

No one talked about LOTRO (Best Buy has walls of special additions still waiting to be sold)
No one talked about Age of Conan (you can get the special addition for $10)
No one talked about Warhammer
No one talked about Vanguard

but besides all that a lot of it came down to luck. Any game could have become what WoW is and any future can take its place. It all comes down to luck. Your idea of what a good game is, or what people want in a game is nothing but your bias. People will play anything that is popular.

I think the next big game will be released at a time when burnt out WoW players begin to look for a new game. I don't think it'll be a game we expect either.

I think Aion has a chance to be pretty popular too. First of all it doesn't have much of a competition at the moment, secondly it purposely went for a lower system requirement because of its PvP roots (it is not as low as WoW but WoW is also how many years old. For computers now a day it is low), thirdly it is simple to pick up.

<quote>You guys have NO clue what you are talking about</quote>

i am already impressed by your knowledge.

let

  sarcasm = 0

in

  sarcasm

end

Originally posted by pb1285n

 You guys have NO clue what you are talking about. Let me clear some things up

1. Warcraft was not a well known brand when WoW came out, it was known among the gaming community but RTS for the most part is a niche genre.

2. Having a popular IP does not garner subs. Everyone said Matrix Online would kick the crap out of WoW and we saw how that ended up.

3. Games do not have to be complete, polished, accesible, or even that good to be popular. WoW was not polished and lacked an end game when it was released and at peak times you could wait 15+ minutes to log on.

What does a game need to be popular?

1. Low system requirements
 

2. Easy to use

 

3. People to talk about it

 

The majority of WoW players only joined because a friend or family member were playing. The problem with most MMOs is that the MMO community keeps it to themselves. Everyone was talking about World of Warcraft and people want to be apart of the crowd.

No one talked about LOTRO (Best Buy has walls of special additions still waiting to be sold)
No one talked about Age of Conan (you can get the special addition for $10)
No one talked about Warhammer
No one talked about Vanguard

but besides all that a lot of it came down to luck. Any game could have become what WoW is and any future can take its place. It all comes down to luck. Your idea of what a good game is, or what people want in a game is nothing but your bias. People will play anything that is popular.

I think the next big game will be released at a time when burnt out WoW players begin to look for a new game. I don't think it'll be a game we expect either.

I think Aion has a chance to be pretty popular too. First of all it doesn't have much of a competition at the moment, secondly it purposely went for a lower system requirement because of its PvP roots (it is not as low as WoW but WoW is also how many years old. For computers now a day it is low), thirdly it is simple to pick up.

I agree.  Everyone forgets (or chooses to ignore) the reasons WoW got as many subs as it did.  Not only was it accessible but it introduced new game mechanics.  It introduced questing as a form of leveling.  The reason people played was because it didn't feel like you were grinding, you were just completing objectives the whole time.  Why do you think everyone since then puts the little stupid exclamation point above the NPC's head?  This was UNHEARD of before WoW came out.

The next really successfull game needs to innovate like that, present something that the playerbase hasn't seen before while also try to give the veteren MMO'er things they come to expect.

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by pb1285n

 You guys have NO clue what you are talking about. Let me clear some things up

1. Warcraft was not a well known brand when WoW came out, it was known among the gaming community but RTS for the most part is a niche genre.

2. Having a popular IP does not garner subs. Everyone said Matrix Online would kick the crap out of WoW and we saw how that ended up.

3. Games do not have to be complete, polished, accesible, or even that good to be popular. WoW was not polished and lacked an end game when it was released and at peak times you could wait 15+ minutes to log on.

What does a game need to be popular?

1. Low system requirements
 

2. Easy to use

 

3. People to talk about it

 

The majority of WoW players only joined because a friend or family member were playing. The problem with most MMOs is that the MMO community keeps it to themselves. Everyone was talking about World of Warcraft and people want to be apart of the crowd.

No one talked about LOTRO (Best Buy has walls of special additions still waiting to be sold)
No one talked about Age of Conan (you can get the special addition for $10)
No one talked about Warhammer
No one talked about Vanguard

but besides all that a lot of it came down to luck. Any game could have become what WoW is and any future can take its place. It all comes down to luck. Your idea of what a good game is, or what people want in a game is nothing but your bias. People will play anything that is popular.

I think the next big game will be released at a time when burnt out WoW players begin to look for a new game. I don't think it'll be a game we expect either.

I think Aion has a chance to be pretty popular too. First of all it doesn't have much of a competition at the moment, secondly it purposely went for a lower system requirement because of its PvP roots (it is not as low as WoW but WoW is also how many years old. For computers now a day it is low), thirdly it is simple to pick up.

 

<quote>You guys have NO clue what you are talking about</quote>

 

i am already impressed by your knowledge.

 

let

  sarcasm = 0

in

  sarcasm

end

But yet you provided no counterpoint so you must agree with him

Originally posted by beeker255

Originally posted by Aikko

Originally posted by Scalebane

Last guy that challenged WoW openly doesn't have a job right now. 

Who was that :o ?
 

 

I think Aion will do well, there no telling how well till it goes live. But i do know the ppl who have been in beta and who i've spoke to really enjoy it and can't wait for the launch.

 

Mark Jacobs of Mythic.

same happened to the former CEO of Funcom (AOC) lololol

AION has the potential to be a blockbuster game.  But if they can't control botting, like in Lineage 2, it will not have staying power.

Botting destroys the economy.  Botted farmers eventually control the game economy.  Botting destroys the PvP experience.  Botted up mega chars dominate.  The game becomes not fun for the average player.

Hey everyone! This is probably like my third post on this site, ever.  I'm really surprised that I'm not seeing more FFXI-Aion comparisons;  There are massive threads on fansites for individuals making the ffxi-aion jump.  The crafting system is extremely similar (risk=reward with the procced weps) and it seems like the group dynamics are also comparable (not the job system mind you, but the specific group roles). It also uses a skillchain system which was rumored to include team chains (if anyone has any info on whether or not this is still being implemented that would be great).  I think Aion has a good chance to succeed because its tapping into this stable and fairly large demographic.  FFXI is still a contender in the west and especially one in the east.  It's also quite dated to be retaining such an active community.  

I really believe polish is going to be the determining factor for the majority of western gamers.  I haven't played Aion yet.  But I hope it's successful.  I'm not really concerned about whether or not it challenges Blizzard.  But it would be nice to see an mmo retain subscription numbers after that "honeymoon period."  Watching one mmo fail after another is kinda disheartening.  Even if its not revolutionary, a breath of fresh air would be nice.

EDIT: It's actually my second post.

EDIT:EDIT: Polish and art direction. Don't forget art direction

It will occupy slot 2 in subscriptions until SW:TOR  and/or GW 2 is released .  I'm expecting it to dwindle in size to that of Lineage 2 then . You already see the botting/goldselling problem in Asia  and we can expect the same to occur in EU and NA, after which we will see a steep decline in # of subscribers  . It' s high time MMO-devs start to realize folks are fed up with grind and MMO's which are totally gear-dependent . I think NCsoft is also making the mistake of "asianating " NCsoft west .The entire division is now under control of korean CEO's - there is nothing "west " left about it - and that will prove to be a huge mistake in the long term .

Originally posted by rikwes

It will occupy slot 2 in subscriptions until SW:TOR  and/or GW 2 is released .  I'm expecting it to dwindle in size to that of Lineage 2 then . You already see the botting/goldselling problem in Asia  and we can expect the same to occur in EU and NA, after which we will see a steep decline in # of subscribers  . It' s high time MMO-devs start to realize folks are fed up with grind and MMO's which are totally gear-dependent . I think NCsoft is also making the mistake of "asianating " NCsoft west .The entire division is now under control of korean CEO's - there is nothing "west " left about it - and that will prove to be a huge mistake in the long term .

 

 

Yep.   As long as NCSoft fails to realize that that Western gamers are different than Asian gamers, they'll continue to just deliver, at best, niche based games to the US.   Lineage series proved this.   Lineage 2 could have been huge here, if only NCSoft had taken the time to Westernize it.    So once again, we'll see Aion go the way of Lineage 2.   Right now I just do not see Aion being that big in the US or Europe - at all.

I think aion will make it to #2, whats also great about wow is that blizzard always put in so much content, and even ones that keep people wondering and talking all day.  It takes time to get more people to play the game and spread the words, and ncsoft is putting in alot of content in the future, my friends and i already played the closed beta and we absolutely love it!  we've played wow for years too, but we've all agreed to move to aion~

And for those that talk bad about the game, why not try it out?   aion isnt a game that pleases everyone, but it does please more than millions of people.  when it all comes down to it, it is all for fun and enjoyment!

Originally posted by tanoril

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by pb1285n

 You guys have NO clue what you are talking about. Let me clear some things up

1. Warcraft was not a well known brand when WoW came out, it was known among the gaming community but RTS for the most part is a niche genre.

2. Having a popular IP does not garner subs. Everyone said Matrix Online would kick the crap out of WoW and we saw how that ended up.

3. Games do not have to be complete, polished, accesible, or even that good to be popular. WoW was not polished and lacked an end game when it was released and at peak times you could wait 15+ minutes to log on.

What does a game need to be popular?

1. Low system requirements
 

2. Easy to use

 

3. People to talk about it

 

The majority of WoW players only joined because a friend or family member were playing. The problem with most MMOs is that the MMO community keeps it to themselves. Everyone was talking about World of Warcraft and people want to be apart of the crowd.

No one talked about LOTRO (Best Buy has walls of special additions still waiting to be sold)
No one talked about Age of Conan (you can get the special addition for $10)
No one talked about Warhammer
No one talked about Vanguard

but besides all that a lot of it came down to luck. Any game could have become what WoW is and any future can take its place. It all comes down to luck. Your idea of what a good game is, or what people want in a game is nothing but your bias. People will play anything that is popular.

I think the next big game will be released at a time when burnt out WoW players begin to look for a new game. I don't think it'll be a game we expect either.

I think Aion has a chance to be pretty popular too. First of all it doesn't have much of a competition at the moment, secondly it purposely went for a lower system requirement because of its PvP roots (it is not as low as WoW but WoW is also how many years old. For computers now a day it is low), thirdly it is simple to pick up.

 

<quote>You guys have NO clue what you are talking about</quote>

 

i am already impressed by your knowledge.

 

let

  sarcasm = 0

in

  sarcasm

end

But yet you provided no counterpoint so you must agree with him

looking up the word sarcasm in a dictionary will help you to understand.

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by Celestian

 

---

Originally posted by Pyrostasis
Dont forget EvE online, its surpassed WAR back in january with 300,000 active subs. Not sure if that puts them at #2 or #3 all depends on LOTRO's sub numbers.

---

 

Surpassed Warhammer with 300k subs in January? Eh? In January Warhammer had like 750k players. It wasn't till after that it went DOWN to 300k (I am one of those people that left).

I know EvE guys like to preach about how great it is but seriously.

As to Aion, I've enjoyed what I've seen so far but it's a PVP game, it won't be remotely near the scale of WoW. I'll be playing it. It might put the nail in Warhammer and it might be 2nd place but I just can't imagine it'll be very popular for long due to the PVP focus.
 

  

If LOTRO had any substantial amount more they would report it, but they don't, they may have a respectable 280k atm.

 

Not really. Turbine is a privately held company and as such never releases revenue info. It has nothing to do with being succesful or not.

So it's still between EVE and LOTRO. No one is quite sure which is larger.

And back onto the topic I don't see AION holding onto more than 200k subs personally.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by Celestian

 

---

Originally posted by Pyrostasis
Dont forget EvE online, its surpassed WAR back in january with 300,000 active subs. Not sure if that puts them at #2 or #3 all depends on LOTRO's sub numbers.

---

 

Surpassed Warhammer with 300k subs in January? Eh? In January Warhammer had like 750k players. It wasn't till after that it went DOWN to 300k (I am one of those people that left).

I know EvE guys like to preach about how great it is but seriously.

As to Aion, I've enjoyed what I've seen so far but it's a PVP game, it won't be remotely near the scale of WoW. I'll be playing it. It might put the nail in Warhammer and it might be 2nd place but I just can't imagine it'll be very popular for long due to the PVP focus.
 

  

If LOTRO had any substantial amount more they would report it, but they don't, they may have a respectable 280k atm.

 

 

Not really. Turbine is a privately held company and as such never releases revenue info. It has nothing to do with being succesful or not.

So it's still between EVE and LOTRO. No one is quite sure which is larger.

 

And back onto the topic I don't see AION holding onto more than 200k subs personally.

i dont see your logic there . Warhammer has 200k + subs even now does nt it ? That game was totally misconcieved . I dont think you can have played Aion or if you did you proberbly played a few levels . I d say its it ll retain between 1-2 million subs in its first few months and then continue to rise by word of mouth and reputation if its endgame is any good a bit like Warcraft did . We are so used to writing off new mmos that its usually a safe bet to say it ll only be getting several thousand subs . Normally you d be right but this time i doubt it .
 

Aion is far too good a game to write off like Warhammer or AoC or Vanguard . Its pvp centric gameplay may not appeal to all but it will certainly attract people who are fed up with WoW being too easy ,finding War pvp too dull or Age of Conan lacking too much end content .

I hope Aion does take WOW, I have only ever played it for 30 days or less.  Some of my old guild loved it but I could never get into it, I would love to see it crumble :D

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by rikwes

It will occupy slot 2 in subscriptions until SW:TOR  and/or GW 2 is released .  I'm expecting it to dwindle in size to that of Lineage 2 then . You already see the botting/goldselling problem in Asia  and we can expect the same to occur in EU and NA, after which we will see a steep decline in # of subscribers  . It' s high time MMO-devs start to realize folks are fed up with grind and MMO's which are totally gear-dependent . I think NCsoft is also making the mistake of "asianating " NCsoft west .The entire division is now under control of korean CEO's - there is nothing "west " left about it - and that will prove to be a huge mistake in the long term .

 

 

 

Yep.   As long as NCSoft fails to realize that that Western gamers are different than Asian gamers, they'll continue to just deliver, at best, niche based games to the US.   Lineage series proved this.   Lineage 2 could have been huge here, if only NCSoft had taken the time to Westernize it.    So once again, we'll see Aion go the way of Lineage 2.   Right now I just do not see Aion being that big in the US or Europe - at all.

Aion seems pretty westernized compared to Lineage 2. So I don't realy see what you are talking about. They are night and day.

Second only to WoW, eh?

Well, so much for the hype behind Aion being only from the fans/players.

Looks like NC has officially tossed their hat into the ring.
 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Second only to WoW, eh?

Well, so much for the hype behind Aion being only from the fans/players.

Looks like NC has officially tossed their hat into the ring.
 

Quite frankly I think you are right. Let's hope they know what it takes to be a top contender. My guess is they have the talent but they are a rather arrogant company and might not realize that players won't stand for their standard level of service.

Originally posted by tryklon

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by tryklon

Originally posted by Stratford

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Asian MMOs just won't make the cut in the US.  Lineage II, Final Fantasy Whatever (just die, already), they were both touted as the Next Great MMORPG.  But American gamers can only take so much of the fuzzy, glowy, cutesy graphics and animation and sound and grind. 

Lineage 2 and FFXI both are doing quite well in the US.  Maybe you can't take any more, but there are many NA gamers that are looking forward to Aion.  Me being one of them.

West in not only united states you know? Fortunately in europe we are not so anti-asian as i see in this forums the americans are... we are already ahead of that, and many other things fortunately

Not everyone in the United States shares this one guy's opinion, you know?  But thanks for doing exactly the same thing he did by lumping an entire region of people together under a stereotypical statement.  Kind of ironic.

There are many, many people in the US that enjoy and immerse themselves in Asian culture, especially Japanese culture.

 

 

 

Offcourse there is, but as a user of this forum you must admit that the american population shows a great disrespect for the asian gaming culture in general, this is certain.

Mustn't admit anything. You're still generalizing and trying to place an entire country's population into one big category... A very vocal *portion* of the NA population is xenophobic... Not everyone is.

I do not fall into that category, and I really resent when people carelessly group me in with it because I happen to fit their criteria - being from America in this case.

People are free to like or dislike whatevcer they want, but what i see here is a "oh, its asian its crap" attitude from the so called american crowd

Yes... you see it here... from certain ignorant people who are also rather vocal about it. People here =/= "entire American population".

 

PS to stratford: I sure hope Final Fantasy wont die already, I had the best tgaming time i can remenber playing final fantasys on my old playstaion 1 and super NES

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by WSIMike

Second only to WoW, eh?

Well, so much for the hype behind Aion being only from the fans/players.

Looks like NC has officially tossed their hat into the ring.
 

 

Quite frankly I think you are right. Let's hope they know what it takes to be a top contender. My guess is they have the talent but they are a rather arrogant company and might not realize that players won't stand for their standard level of service.

Yeah... that's a topic between some friends who all came from Hindemith (you might remember some of them, or recognize their names, actually)... 

Will NC Soft lose some of that arrogance and learn from their mistakes with L2, or will they repeat history and let Aion go down a similar road.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by WSIMike

Second only to WoW, eh?

Well, so much for the hype behind Aion being only from the fans/players.

Looks like NC has officially tossed their hat into the ring.
 

 

Quite frankly I think you are right. Let's hope they know what it takes to be a top contender. My guess is they have the talent but they are a rather arrogant company and might not realize that players won't stand for their standard level of service.

Yeah... that's a topic between some friends who all came from Hindemith (you might remember some of them, or recognize their names, actually)... 

Will NC Soft lose some of that arrogance and learn from their mistakes with L2, or will they repeat history and let Aion go down a similar road.

 

I don´t really think so, I mean, if you check the sites of the upcomming MMO's you´ll see they are worried about showing off what they´ve got different from games like WoW, such as Fallen Earth and Earthrise and so on. But if you head to the Aion page or try to look for info, all you got is: "Our game has a DEEP character creator and Wings, yay...". The question is, are the players looking for this ?

My take is no, surely the "simple" MMO market is taken by WoW and I don´t think someone can do it really better, specially a NCsoft with their grid-fest model, which is hated on this side of the globe. I think it´s gonna be a big fail imho, and actually I´m most likely not going to play this game after such announcements, I mean, why do they need to go comparing to WoW for ? Can´t they just say: "We´ve got a great game because of X,Y and Z and we hope we get a lot of player coming in".

The last to compare itself with WoW was WAR and look the hole they got thrown off....