Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Xasapis

You sure it was me saying all these things? I doubt it.

What I'm saying is that as far as raid content is concern, the current team is not very hot on new ideas. A good portion of the current raid content is recycled vanilla raids.

Also hard modes etc. do not count as multiple encounters in my book. It's just one encounter that can be approached in different ways. So Sapphiron & dragons is just one encounter for me.

One last thing. Just because I don't play, don't mean that I'm out of touch with the game. Doesn't mean that I hate the game either, I think I've established that multiple times. Having said that, I believe I can criticise the game and its shortcomings (imo of course) as much as I want. Feel free to disagree with me without parroting the subscription numbers. Because it isn't the subscription numbers that made WoW such a big success.
 

 

The problem is you turn so easy the words it always takes 50 lines to counter the "story" and put out the "true facts".

1. "A good portion of the current raid content is recycled vanilla raids". This is of course a plain and utter lie as patch 3.1 and patch 3.2. are concerned and if you are eluding to Nax. Nax before WotLK was played by 1% of the people, now it is being played by 80% of the people. So your argument is worthless for 99% of the people.

Right. Because rehashed bosses with rehashed gear drops in a 1 room instance counts as completely new raid content? If you call 3.2 "new raid content" then you might as well call reality television "new and original TV content"

Thats assuming of course you've got out of Naxx 10, zorndorf.

 

It's a bit late, but since I was tagged as a hater in a fit of sweeping generalisation, I'll try to explain why this is not true and why people should avoid generalising.

Yes, I no longer play WoW. My memories of the game were excellent however and I have never forgotten the good times I spent there. Unfortunately, along with the good things, we have to tolerate certain weaknesses. These weaknesses can be objective (a general problem) or subjective (a lack of a certain style of gameplay). Regardless of their nature, as long as the positive are more than the negative, people usually stay with the game (sometimes however RL intervenes and disrupts our plans).

When the negative starting overtaking the positives, then people are faced with two choices, either wait for things to get fixed or leave. At this point, regardless if people are playing or not the game, when the nag and complain, it's because they care. When you don't care, you don't bother looking back (with the exception of the people with the ex-girlfriend syndrome). The point is however, that, although you're vocal and sometimes overly whiney, you love (not hate) the game that you nag about.

Even now that I reached the point where I will not return to WoW, because certain design decisions will never stop being part of the game (arena system, achievement system etc.), I do remember fondly the times I spent in the game and I never mean ill when I criticise it. I just have a firm opinion on what's fun for me personally, and since this is a free forum, I'm vocal about how I see the game becoming better in my opinion. Or, if I see a design decision that I feel is bad, I describe in what way that decision is detrimental to my own fun factor.

So, next time you feel like generalising, please keep in mind that not everyone is here to throw cheap snide comments. When somebody presents a criticism it's easy to tag a label, harder to consider his point of view and the possibility that his experiences, game preferences and expectations make that criticism valid in his eyes, whether others agree with it or not.

As I stated in the text you quoted, I don't evaluate the game for others, I evaluate the games in my own tastes. These forums are for other people to share their opinion, whether they share my tastes or not.

For me WoW at this point has certain features that are deal breakers. For example, as far as PvP is concerned, arena is such a deal breaker. I liked the battlegrounds and the wintergasp, but I was not interested in a FPS type ladder system inside an MMO. It was too much of an immersion breaker for me. Others of course enjoy it, just not me.

The whole achievement system. If reputation grinding was a time sucking activity, achievement grinding is a life sucking one. This is THE main reason I left WoW. I'm a lore freak and an achiever. However, the grind associated with the achievements combined with my heavy raid schedule (I used to belong in a top server guild) was unbearable. It would have obliterated my social life, had I stayed in the game with the current incarnation of the achievement system.

Also, I considered to forego the achievement system and play the rest of the game as if it did not exist. Alas, at this point the whole game is very heavily structured that way. At the level I was playing there wasn't much to do that made sense to me. For me, the game shifted for a raiding game into an achievement game, a route I did not enjoy.

The daily quests. Both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it was a good source of money. A curse because it involved roughly two hours (for all of them) of the same quests over and over again for months. Tolerable, because they were sustaining my heavy raiding expenses, but I was pulling my hair everyday that I had to repeat the process.

The dungeons. Both group and raid ones. In TBC they started becoming smaller. In Lich King they became microscopic. That's no longer a dungeon run, that's a corridor run. The encounters were also carbon copy in mechanism with what I've seen multiple times in the past, with one major exception. Phasing. I even liked the dragon flying instances (my guild mates hated them), it was something different and something refreshing.  Still, they were way too small. I still can't understand how they managed to drop the ball with the instances, when the world quest design was such a pleasure to experience.

Hmm, this post is actually on topic. Hehe.

Anyway, at this point I don't care if you don't think that my criticism is not valid. You don't seem to have the capacity to distinguish between constructive criticism and trolling. That's a weakness you need to work on.

As for being an ex player, all ex players are also potential players again, it's just one button away. Just because you're currently playing the game, doesn't mean that you're more important than I am. And I never mentioned anywhere that I'm the center of the universe. Unlike some other people, I am well aware about what I want and enjoy and what others want and enjoy. I'm open minded enough to consider all points of view presented.

As for Blizzard developers, they can do what they like. They are certainly open minded enough to consider all ideas presented in other games and implementing them. If Blizzard was following you advice, a good deal of the innovations currently in the game would have never made it there.

In the end we're both irrelevant, yapping in a forum where a small minority knows it exists and an even smaller bothers to participate.

Originally posted by Xasapis

As I stated in the text you quoted, I don't evaluate the game for others, I evaluate the games in my own tastes. These forums are for other people to share their opinion, whether they share my tastes or not.

That's the thing. Fanbois do not understand that quoting subscription numbers or xfire numbers got nothing to do with most opinions. Many of us do not play games because they are popular - and if we indeed are bored or jaded with a game there usually is reasons for that.

Some of us do not like the direction WoW has taken and no amount of fanboi rant will change the fact. Many of us used to be fans of the game (I do mean fans in less fanatical ways). If you are having fun with the game, great, you should continue playing. You should also state why you do like the game instead of trying to prove preferences of someone else wrong.

Blizzard could release a completely different game.

No modification to WoW is likely to compare to experiencing and exploring a new game world.

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Since some of the servers are shrinking due to people leaving currently a server merge or 10 might be in order soon.. Especially after Aion and Champions Launch. Which will pull even more people off the servers enmass.

Also a complete overhaul of the graphics engine would be nice. Make the game look like something other than a giant disney cartoon but something a little more serious. Lets face it the Orcs in WAR are much better looking than WOWs then again the Elves and Humans and goblins are also better looking in pretty much every game out...

Thats about it Server Merges and COMPLETE graphics overhaul. Gameplay in WOW isnt so bad though it can actually be fun at times.

What servers are shrinking?  OMG...do you even play this game?  LOL!  We got queue's like when the game first launched.    The one server I play on for PvP has more people than ever and some times it get so crowded we're killing each other to get to MOB's to do daily's!   Yeah it is that crowded.    BG's are hopping like crazy.    If WoW is dying then why is my server bursting at the seams?
 

 I want leveling gear sets so I can get my Bloodfang set and level it to max level, I don't need any other piece of armor.

I too want mounted combat, something a little better and more fluid than jousting.

I want customizable mounts, options to put more armor, less armor and some color options for that armor.

I demand more class specific quest, because I'm a rogue I want a quest in a dungeon that I can do using rogue abilities, I don't want the option to solo a dungeon.

I want the option to not kill someone when I fight, I just want to leave him with 1 hp and humiliation emote that would go with such action.

I want some other things but this is all I can remember now.

The thing that would get me back into WoW would be an engine upgrade.  No change to the graphic style, just a redo of the model detail and animations so it looks/feels not dated.  Similar to WAR graphic wise, stylized but not 12 polies per MOB ;)

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Britney Spears or Jonas Brothers don't have a 60% market share of the pop scene.

And in fact - you don't need to pay 180 dollars EACH year to just listen to their music.

Makes you think about defining "popularity".

Since Wow makes the MOST money of one single game in 30 years of video game markets, that would mean it can only be compared with other products that dominated their market  with the same amount.

Coca Cola, Microsoft, Disney are a good start, but they didn't have the same NUMBER of competitors as Wow has.

Simply WoW isn't it :))) ?

And no Britney Spears is NOT one of those.

Yet, you will find many foiks who do not feel Coca Cola, Microsoft and Disney make the 'best' products, even though they are no doubt quite popular.

WOW is a quality product, and it appeals to the masses, who are not known for their discriminating tastes.

And defintely Z...you put all other fans to shame, no one defends a game harder than you do, though for the life of me I can't see why.  I'd think you would be too busy playing the game you enjoy (you do play, right, because as much as you are on the forums I'm thinking it can't be very often)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Britney Spears or Jonas Brothers don't have a 60% market share of the pop scene.

And in fact - you don't need to pay 180 dollars EACH year to just listen to their music.

Makes you think about defining "popularity".

Since Wow makes the MOST money of one single game in 30 years of video game markets, that would mean it can only be compared with other products that dominated their market  with the same amount.

Coca Cola, Microsoft, Disney are a good start, but they didn't have the same NUMBER of competitors as Wow has.

Simply WoW isn't it :))) ?

And no Britney Spears is NOT one of those.

 

Yet, you will find many foiks who do not feel Coca Cola, Microsoft and Disney make the 'best' products, even though they are no doubt quite popular.

WOW is a quality product, and it appeals to the masses, who are not known for their discriminating tastes.

And defintely Z...you put all other fans to shame, no one defends a game harder than you do, though for the life of me I can't see why.  I'd think you would be too busy playing the game you enjoy (you do play, right, because as much as you are on the forums I'm thinking it can't be very often)

 

I was thinking the same thing, maybe there's an addon for WoW that let's you go to mmorpg.com forums from in game.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Britney Spears or Jonas Brothers don't have a 60% market share of the pop scene.

And in fact - you don't need to pay 180 dollars EACH year to just listen to their music.

Makes you think about defining "popularity".

Since Wow makes the MOST money of one single game in 30 years of video game markets, that would mean it can only be compared with other products that dominated their market  with the same amount.

Coca Cola, Microsoft, Disney are a good start, but they didn't have the same NUMBER of competitors as Wow has.

Simply WoW isn't it :))) ?

And no Britney Spears is NOT one of those.

 

Yet, you will find many foiks who do not feel Coca Cola, Microsoft and Disney make the 'best' products, even though they are no doubt quite popular.

WOW is a quality product, and it appeals to the masses, who are not known for their discriminating tastes.

And defintely Z...you put all other fans to shame, no one defends a game harder than you do, though for the life of me I can't see why.  I'd think you would be too busy playing the game you enjoy (you do play, right, because as much as you are on the forums I'm thinking it can't be very often)

 

You know whats funny wiht you because you play EVE, you think you are high and mighty above everyone else.  You act like such a condecending twat to most posts, and actually get away with it because no one says anything to you.    You think because wow is popular it is somehow less of a good product than eve or lotro or anything else?  You patronise alot of wow players and act like anything popular is somehow bad and anything less popular is world bloody class.  My frind you have some trully twisted logic. 

For your information Disny are world leaders in animation and world class 3d animation, I for one bet u are using windows OS.  Oh let me get this staright u will come back saying u are suing Linux, sure thing bud.  And yes coca cola is popular because pepsi is shit simple as that.  So dont act high and mighty all the time please.  Maybe other games that are less popular are crap, or is it things that get world wide recognition and are market leaders shit, and the rest of the products world class?  In some cases that may work and in sme cases it may not, but for sure as hell u are using windows as I type.

Originally posted by Reccoo

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Britney Spears or Jonas Brothers don't have a 60% market share of the pop scene.

And in fact - you don't need to pay 180 dollars EACH year to just listen to their music.

Makes you think about defining "popularity".

Since Wow makes the MOST money of one single game in 30 years of video game markets, that would mean it can only be compared with other products that dominated their market  with the same amount.

Coca Cola, Microsoft, Disney are a good start, but they didn't have the same NUMBER of competitors as Wow has.

Simply WoW isn't it :))) ?

And no Britney Spears is NOT one of those.

 

Yet, you will find many foiks who do not feel Coca Cola, Microsoft and Disney make the 'best' products, even though they are no doubt quite popular.

WOW is a quality product, and it appeals to the masses, who are not known for their discriminating tastes.

And defintely Z...you put all other fans to shame, no one defends a game harder than you do, though for the life of me I can't see why.  I'd think you would be too busy playing the game you enjoy (you do play, right, because as much as you are on the forums I'm thinking it can't be very often)

 

 

You know whats funny wiht you because you play EVE, you think you are high and mighty above everyone else.  You act like such a condecending twat to most posts, and actually get away with it because no one says anything to you.    You think because wow is popular it is somehow less of a good product than eve or lotro or anything else?  You patronise alot of wow players and act like anything popular is somehow bad and anything less popular is world bloody class.  My frind you have some trully twisted logic. 

For your information Disny are world leaders in animation and world class 3d animation, I for one bet u are using windows OS.  Oh let me get this staright u will come back saying u are suing Linux, sure thing bud.  And yes coca cola is popular because pepsi is shit simple as that.  So dont act high and mighty all the time please.  Maybe other games that are less popular are crap, or is it things that get world wide recognition and are market leaders shit, and the rest of the products world class?  In some cases that may work and in sme cases it may not, but for sure as hell u are using windows as I type.

I guess you listen to Britney Spears because se is a good singer huh?

Vista from MS is the best OS ever right?

He is not acting high and mighty and feel elitist cause he is playing EVE.

Its just that people who gave EvE a try , and mind me a real try and not install, "OMG WHERE ARE DA SWORDS-HOW I MOVE?", uninstall, can clearly see that a MMO with just 300k subs can be more deep and interesting than the top sellers.

Even If after 1 month of EvE I dont play it anymore cause its just not the game for me I firmly believe its a great game that will last longer that WoW for sure.

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Reccoo

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Britney Spears or Jonas Brothers don't have a 60% market share of the pop scene.

And in fact - you don't need to pay 180 dollars EACH year to just listen to their music.

Makes you think about defining "popularity".

Since Wow makes the MOST money of one single game in 30 years of video game markets, that would mean it can only be compared with other products that dominated their market  with the same amount.

Coca Cola, Microsoft, Disney are a good start, but they didn't have the same NUMBER of competitors as Wow has.

Simply WoW isn't it :))) ?

And no Britney Spears is NOT one of those.

 

Yet, you will find many foiks who do not feel Coca Cola, Microsoft and Disney make the 'best' products, even though they are no doubt quite popular.

WOW is a quality product, and it appeals to the masses, who are not known for their discriminating tastes.

And defintely Z...you put all other fans to shame, no one defends a game harder than you do, though for the life of me I can't see why.  I'd think you would be too busy playing the game you enjoy (you do play, right, because as much as you are on the forums I'm thinking it can't be very often)

 

 

You know whats funny wiht you because you play EVE, you think you are high and mighty above everyone else.  You act like such a condecending twat to most posts, and actually get away with it because no one says anything to you.    You think because wow is popular it is somehow less of a good product than eve or lotro or anything else?  You patronise alot of wow players and act like anything popular is somehow bad and anything less popular is world bloody class.  My frind you have some trully twisted logic. 

For your information Disny are world leaders in animation and world class 3d animation, I for one bet u are using windows OS.  Oh let me get this staright u will come back saying u are suing Linux, sure thing bud.  And yes coca cola is popular because pepsi is shit simple as that.  So dont act high and mighty all the time please.  Maybe other games that are less popular are crap, or is it things that get world wide recognition and are market leaders shit, and the rest of the products world class?  In some cases that may work and in sme cases it may not, but for sure as hell u are using windows as I type.

 

I guess you listen to Britney Spears because se is a good singer huh?

Vista from MS is the best OS ever right?

He is not acting high and mighty and feel elitist cause he is playing EVE.

Its just that people who gave EvE a try , and mind me a real try and not install, "OMG WHERE ARE DA SWORDS-HOW I MOVE?", uninstall, can clearly see that a MMO with just 300k subs can be more deep and interesting than the top sellers.

Even If after 1 month of EvE I dont play it anymore cause its just not the game for me I firmly believe its a great game that will last longer that WoW for sure.

See this is where u fail.  did i say britney spears is the best eevr, for her fans she is good, its everyone opinion.  Millions like MJ does thta make him shit>  He was a fuucking genius.  So yeha i spoose he was shit for some people  But for some reason anything that is popular is rubbish and crap here. For some reason  u feel after 1month of playing eve its a great game and will last longer than wow.  The total crap on these forums just gets to epic proportions. 

---

Originally posted by Reccoo

 
See this is where u fail.  did i say britney spears is the best eevr, for her fans she is good, its everyone opinion.  Millions like MJ does thta make him shit>  He was a fuucking genius.  So yeha i spoose he was shit for some people  But for some reason anything that is popular is rubbish and crap here. For some reason  u feel after 1month of playing eve its a great game and will last longer than wow.  The total crap on these forums just gets to epic proportions. 

---

I never said that popular = bad. I said that popular != good. Or isnt always good!
The fact that its popular doesnt guaranty quality and especially doenst mean there are not better things!
FYI I have been playing  WoW for almost 5 years (I quit when 3.2 was announced) and I hate to see the game declining. Still blizzard is happy making a more commercial product but I dont want the games I play to have commercial success, I want them to be good!
EVE is better by design. Its a well made sandbox game, its natural to last longer.

Allow me to quote a great post found in another forum:

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Just because something is popular does NOT make it good. People are trained chimps and marketing departments know exactly how to string people along.

 

Numbers do not a good ANYTHING make. Just because people are sheep that doesn't make something good.

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Popular does NOT make something good, it also doesn't make it bad. But some people seem to think popularity gives an indication of quality. Popularity only gives an indication of popularity, NOTHING more.

 

Popularity in no way comes with how well-made anything is. Ikea furniture is popular, you saying its well made? I can assure you it isn't.

The problem with taking the good out of the old is good is an opinion. The things someone liked about WoW are the things I hated about it. The things I like about one movie, or band, or painting, or whatever are the things someone else hates. Your definition of good and mine are diametrically opposed. So, who's definition do we use? Do we use the popular one because its popular even if, again, popular has nothing to do with good?

Everyone has their guilty pleasures, I've got a few songs and movies that I'm sure some people would nyerk their pants laughing over. It's not good, and i'll admit they're not good, but they're catchy. Theres a reason there is a genre of music called pop. Music producers know EXACTLY what you want to hear and they have a guy that'll make that music on a computer and pick some random chick with big **** and say "You're the new pop sensation!" There's not really a level of skill involved in that on the part of the artist. Its a catchy, stupid, guilty pleasure dreamed up by a 55 year old man in a suit.

I mean, there's a reason serious musicians look down on pop music. There's a reason serious actors do independent films. Its not about the money, in fact they might lose their *** on it. Its about the art, its about substance. If it happens to make them money that's awesome, but its not about that.

There is a reason WoW is popular. You're a fool if you think any other MMO (outside of a Blizzard made one) has the ability to be as popular as WoW. Its not going to happen. WoW will run on any pile of garbage computer. Its easy enough for the housewife with the crying kid in one arm to play. Its made by blizzard which has made a few other games in the past that were popular. Thats how WoW got its numbers, and thats why no other MMO that isn't made by them will never have those numbers.

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Original poster: Ouchy Dathurts on Aionsource

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Xasapis

I think the development of WoW has reached a cap. They are pretty much recycling raid content at this point. I don't foresee much in terms of innovation. In my opinion, all the big innovations will be kept for the upcoming MMO.

 

Inside Wow they made a LOT of innovations in Wotlk.

A few examples?

Phasing.

Mounted rides on those Warcraft 3 vehicules in both PVE and PvP.

Dual specs. Temendous playing value (both for Dps and combo classes).

Massively played PvP action which became even TOO popular (hence the new 120 vs 120 Wintergrasp without lag (on EU servers at least)).

Experience shut down and leveling through PvP (actually my son says he likes the PvP experience gains very much. he purely levels on PvP and AV brings in lots of experience).

------- Wow is the money maker. ---------

31% of the complete total revenus of the Activision Blizzard Group comes from WOW.

The rest (and future projects) ..... is thin air and unpublished hope.

And add the the next Wow expansion, which will bring sea/ship battles, will be the BIG thing announced at Blizzcon.

 

Phasing is a nice idea, but it's used VERY infrequently.  Besides the DK starter area, I think only the wrathgate area and the Sons of Holdir area in eastern Storm Peaks use it.  Well, Varithimas disappears too after you do the quest, but that's not exactly awe-inspiring.
 

Dual-Specs are very overrated.  They don't benefit all classes.  Why should my mage use it?  In case I want a different dps spec?  Shamans and paladins get the most benefit from it, with other classes gettling less.  This was put it because of all the people who whined (rather loudly) about respec costs.  I liked the original idea that you pick ONE talent tree and that's your tree.   It's also another money sink, Blizzard seems to be big on them.

Plus Xasaspis was dead on about recycling content.  They reused Naxx for Wrath, didn't take much work to tweak the mobs to 80th from 60th, add some different loot and done.  Heroics that were added in BC are recycling 5 mans.  The "hard modes" of raid instances are.. you guessed it... redoing the same instance in a different way.  Blizzard does less work on designs, but gets the players to repeat them over and over. 

For the absurd amount of money that blizzard makes from subscriptions alone, they don't add a lot of content via patches.  Pick any other MMO out there and you'll see that they get more content patches more often and make less money.

Well Zorndorf, for accusing me of "pure and utterly nonsense" most of your post was actually just that.

Not that I need to justify myself but yes, I have a toon of every class on 2 different servers (1 for horde, 1 for alliance).  The lowest level of all of them is 70, my spriest who is farming AV for honor.

Dual-Spec is overrated.  You mentioned druids, well guess what a Balance druid can heal just fine in 5-mans.  The gear that Balance druids get is typically very similar to Resto druids, they'll both have good mana pools and +spellpower.  Of course the Resto would heal better, but if you're just doing 5 mans a Balance druid can heal just fine.  Before you rant, my druid is Balance and has healed in heroic 5 mans with little difficulty.  So really the Dual spec would be for 2 specs, feral vs caster.   See, what I mean by less benefit? 

The pvp vs pve spec is questionable.  Ask 10 mages what the best pvp spec is and you'll get 10 different answers.  Some say frost for snares and AoE blizzard, others say Arcane for slow and resists, others say fire for high burst damage.  Same thing with rogues, Assassination is quite popular now but Subtlety surely has some pvp-friendly talents.  Dual-speccing here is questionable as you are still just replacing one DPS spec for a different DPS spec which may or may not be better depending on numerous factors.

Your final statement:

While you can easely troll with a word like "overrated".

And the last sentence is a pure laugh. Wow added already far more content in 2009 to WotLK than any other mmorpg on the market for those same 8 months....

Really?  You seriously believe that?   You don't play or even pay attention to other MMO's do you?   In 9 months we got two patches, 1st one added some dailies and 1 raid zone, that's it.  Second one ... add some dailies, 1 raid zone and one 5 man instance.  Hardly "more content that any other mmorpg" by a long shot.  If you were level 76 or lower, you wouldn't hardly notice either 3.1 or 3.2 patches.  Vanilla WoW we averaged a new patch roughly every 2.5 months, as you can see the average wait time is almost double.  As for other MMO's there are too many to list here but many of the bigger named ones have added more content, with less subscription dollars, more often than Blizzard.

I get it you're a fanboy, you're defending your game you are passionate about.  Good for you.  Don't just blindly take everything Blizzard throws at you at face value.

the only way they could wow better is by rebooting the game go go lvl 60 wow, wut?

and/or World of Diablo.

No more level cap increase, do what AoC is gona do with their coming x-pac, alternate advancement.

My alt just hit 70, but i just dont think im gona level another 10 more. Yes, its only 10 more, but its too boring leveling...

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Being "popular" has NOTHING to do with owning the ECONOMIC market position.

"It is the people who speak with their monthly MONEY that decide WHAT is being played massively out there"

And btw... WOW is NOT cheap: It costs 180 dollars each year just to log in to its servers....

No matter how much you as an individual want to downplay Wow's "succes".

By this sheer "fact" (1.2 billion dollars revenus on a yearly basis), WOW is the single most succesful game in the game's industry.

Is it the best? Of course, for MOST people YES. People are free to PAY or NOT...and for 5 years MORE than 50% voted YES with their monthly pocket money.

In fact the sheer market share in the MMO field is frightening.

Two possibilities (as the market is FREE) OR ...  WOW is that good OR ....the competition is that weak.

In view of what I had to endure for the past 5 years I clearly think it is the latter.

 Edit: and for the poster above: why do you quote someone else pathetic post to find a point. Referring to house wives and kids is not even worth mentioning. Are not ALL people created equal? Or is only the frustrated teenager capable or worthy of playing video games?

Being popular is the basis of all economics actually... And it is practically the sole reason for WoW's success. Popularity and polish. It is so popular because it's everywhere. I have lots of friends that play it, and most of them don't even know about their options in the field of MMOs. It's not that the competition is worse than WoW, it's that WoW has become so mainstream that it has become completely socially acceptable to play. Because let's face it, the only types of games that are socially acceptable by the general consensus are Guitar Hero, Madden, WoW, and DDR. You know what I do when I come across my friends that play WoW? I tell them to check out the 2 week trials on AoC, WAR, LotRO, etc. Not one of them has gone back to WoW. The only reason for WoWs success is it's own success. Successful doesn't mean good. Van Gough died a poor and unappreciated man, and then Andy Warholl came along and became the most popular artist of his time. Tell me which is a better painting, Starry Night, or a Soup Can?

The homogenisation of healing and damage gear and the dual spec were both very big improvements in my book. Perhaps because I played a healer and hated the need for farming alts so as to maintain my top position as a raider. So, in not so many words, I would agree with Zordorf that for healer (and tank) classes especially, the gaming mechanics introduced have improved the gaming experience considerably.

Overall I'd say that dual spec is beneficial for raiders because:

• Tanks choosing a farming spec as secondary. can double as PvP spec
• Healers choosing a farming spec as secondary, can double as PvP spec
• DPS choosing a PvP spec as secondary

DPS seem to gain more in term of versatility than the rest, but still, the gain for tanks and healers can't be dismissed (in my opinion).

Of course the benefits are more prominent the higher the content people try to tackle. If people only care for 5-man, they'll find these changes less beneficial. But for top end raiders these changes were a considerable improvement. Especially considering how time consuming raiding is and how much time those changes could save (no need for farming alts for example).