Vanguard has concepts that doesn't sell to the current MMO playerbase (this is not saying players want ezmode).
Everquest 2 has concepts that worked and is well supported by SOE.

Playing both games for 2+ years since launch. EQ2 has molded much better in all areas of adventuring. Sure it may have zones and instances, but seamless worlds is only something nice to put on a box description. Players don't spend 15 bucks a month just to look at something, players spend money for meaninful content and experience, this is where EQ2 wins. VG has alot of eye candy, but the ,meat of the game still has problems, class balance, bugs that will never go fixed due to lack of resources.

Vanguard will give you that fast "fix" nonetheless, but I wouldn't invest in the game if you're looking for something long term 2-4 years from now, EQ2 could give you that long term satisfaction.

Also yes, population wise its a night and day difference. EQ2 has a 250-350k population. VG has a 5 - 15k population (even I feel its much much lower than that).

If you need any indepth feedback I can provide for both games as I was an end-game raid leader in both.

Personally, I can't think of any reason whatsoever to play EQ2. The game doesn't have the slightest advantage when it's compared to WoW. So if you want to play that sort of game, just go with Warcraft.

However, Vanguard is a considerably different beast to WoW. It has strong disadvantages and advantages. To me the key feature is the additional complexity of the gameplay - there's some real challenge to the game, which I was missing in Warcraft, and I'm willing to put up with all the downsides (low pop, bugs) in order to explore those challeneges.

Originally posted by Antipathy

I've recently started Vanguard after several years of WoW. The challenge level of the game is considerably higher, and I'm really enjoying it.

 

Hello Kitty Online is more challenging than WoW these days :(

Again from my experience with VG since launch, this "challenge and complexity" folks speak of I have yet to see. To me the game didn't pose..hardly any "thinking" criteria when getting things done. I would say the difficulty of VG is equal to that of EQ2 which happens to be greater than Warcraft but less than EQ1.

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Again from my experience with VG since launch, this "challenge and complexity" folks speak of I have yet to see. To me the game didn't pose..hardly any "thinking" criteria when getting things done. I would say the difficulty of VG is equal to that of EQ2 which happens to be greater than Warcraft but less than EQ1.

Well - I'm guessing complexity would depend on the class you play. But the Vanguard Disciple blows away anything I've seen anywhere else in terms of playing complexity.

For example, someone posted the opening rotation for a disciple on the VG forums recently:

After ensuring that Inner Light is up and putting a Kiss of Heaven on the tank before he pulls, my initial rotation is:
Blooming Ridge Hand, Knife Hand, Blessed Wind, Crescent Kick (Endowment of Balance goes up, Jin regen), Void Hand (Endowment of Life goes up on my defensive target, normally my tank, +1500HP for 2 minutes), Leech's Grasp (because I'm low on endurance by now, need that boost), Soul Cutter, Void Hand, Knife Hand (Endowment of Mastery goes up, -10% endurance and energy costs for groupmates within 10 metres), Crescent Kick, Ra'Jin Flare (Endowment of Enmity goes up, +10% damage buff, self only).
I put up Endowment of Enmity last as it prevents me from stealing aggro from the tank.  If I do get aggro from the tank, then I'll use Baiting Strike, and start spamming Soul Cutter, and, if my health drops below 40%, Feign Death.
 

On top of managing rotations that complex, disciples have to use chain attacks, manage aggro, and be aware of their Jin levels.

Oh - and disciples are healers. All the above is just their secondary role - their main role is to watch health bars. I've heard blood mages are similarly complex (but in a different way). Nothing in WoW comes remotely close - and during the time I played EQ2 (admittedly only to level 30) I didn't see anything particularly complex either

Well OP, if grouping is important to you then the only real choice you have between these games is EQ2. Sure Vanguard is better in many ways, but the population is very low. That low population is even more dramatic in a game with such a huge open game world.

EQ2 is much better.

I tried both and ended up playing VG longer. I think I got bored with EQ2 after 1 week. I played VG for a couple months before finances and free time forced me to drop all my subs but one.

VG has more challenging gameplay and an explorer's dream game world. The character models are a bit cheap looking, but so are EQ2's.

I actually found it easier to find groups in VG than EQ2. Maybe it was the server I was on?

I unfortunately went back on my decision to never play anything SOE put out after the fail of SWG. I started in VG from the first day and played for a few months. I would not recommend VG as the population continues to drop and I personally did not enjoy the community.

I would say if you can't find a game that really sparks your interest, just join a F2P until something better comes out. That was the biggest reason I joined RoM, nothing was out that really looked Great.

Originally posted by MegaWolf

 

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Originally posted by John.A.Zoid
If you've tried them both then shouldn't you know which one you prefered?
\

---

 

no... i don't, hence this thread...

Vanguard seems to be the better choice. I prefer a game that focuses more on grouping. The only concern is the population and being able to find people to group with. Plus i heard the free trial area of Vanguard doesn't do the game much justice.

It's not that it doesn't do it justice, it's that once you leave the trial island you are faced with a huge world and everyone is spread out.

As far as the question, it depends. EQ 2 has more players and is very polished. I like the classes in eq 2, especially my shadow knight. However, the world is just too cute for me. It also feels a bit artificial. like the devs created some sort of valey and just populated it.

I LOVE the world in Vanguard. it feels right. on moment you can be in a forest that feels like a forest and after traveling you can be on a sandy tropical beach watching the sun set while destroying lizard folk!

however, if you are the type of person who is not proactive and needs to find a lot of pickup groups then vangaurd won't be for you.

Vanguard is for:

soloers (some content is difficult so you might have tackle it at higher lvl)

players in an established guildplayers who are proactive and will actively seek out active guilds.

I was in the mood for a high fantasy game, loaded both eq 2 and vanguard up and to my tastes, vanguard, despite it's issues, is a more interesting world.

Eq2 is about things like "mr. stipple stash has misplaced his spectacles, can you help him find them". It's cutsey. oh, I'm sure there are more serious quests but I just couldn't take it anymore.

I like the danger in VAnguard. I actually die in that game.

Originally posted by Sovrath

It's not that it doesn't do it justice, it's that once you leave the trial island you are faced with a huge world and everyone is spread out.

As far as the question, it depends. EQ 2 has more players and is very polished. I like the classes in eq 2, especially my shadow knight. However, the world is just too cute for me. It also feels a bit artificial. like the devs created some sort of valey and just populated it.

I LOVE the world in Vanguard. it feels right. on moment you can be in a forest that feels like a forest and after traveling you can be on a sandy tropical beach watching the sun set while destroying lizard folk!

however, if you are the type of person who is not proactive and needs to find a lot of pickup groups then vangaurd won't be for you.

Vanguard is for:

soloers (some content is difficult so you might have tackle it at higher lvl)

players in an established guildplayers who are proactive and will actively seek out active guilds.

I was in the mood for a high fantasy game, loaded both eq 2 and vanguard up and to my tastes, vanguard, despite it's issues, is a more interesting world.

Eq2 is about things like "mr. stipple stash has misplaced his spectacles, can you help him find them". It's cutsey. oh, I'm sure there are more serious quests but I just couldn't take it anymore.

I like the danger in VAnguard. I actually die in that game.

LMAO

I wrote this almost 2 years ago about EQII mate, enjoy....

www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Torak/012008/1053_The-wonderful-world-of-EQII-or-Poohbear-has-left-the-building

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Sovrath

It's not that it doesn't do it justice, it's that once you leave the trial island you are faced with a huge world and everyone is spread out.

As far as the question, it depends. EQ 2 has more players and is very polished. I like the classes in eq 2, especially my shadow knight. However, the world is just too cute for me. It also feels a bit artificial. like the devs created some sort of valey and just populated it.

I LOVE the world in Vanguard. it feels right. on moment you can be in a forest that feels like a forest and after traveling you can be on a sandy tropical beach watching the sun set while destroying lizard folk!

however, if you are the type of person who is not proactive and needs to find a lot of pickup groups then vangaurd won't be for you.

Vanguard is for:

soloers (some content is difficult so you might have tackle it at higher lvl)

players in an established guildplayers who are proactive and will actively seek out active guilds.

I was in the mood for a high fantasy game, loaded both eq 2 and vanguard up and to my tastes, vanguard, despite it's issues, is a more interesting world.

Eq2 is about things like "mr. stipple stash has misplaced his spectacles, can you help him find them". It's cutsey. oh, I'm sure there are more serious quests but I just couldn't take it anymore.

I like the danger in VAnguard. I actually die in that game.

LMAO

I wrote this almost 2 years ago about EQII mate, enjoy....

www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Torak/012008/1053_The-wonderful-world-of-EQII-or-Poohbear-has-left-the-building

Father?

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Sovrath

It's not that it doesn't do it justice, it's that once you leave the trial island you are faced with a huge world and everyone is spread out.

As far as the question, it depends. EQ 2 has more players and is very polished. I like the classes in eq 2, especially my shadow knight. However, the world is just too cute for me. It also feels a bit artificial. like the devs created some sort of valey and just populated it.

I LOVE the world in Vanguard. it feels right. on moment you can be in a forest that feels like a forest and after traveling you can be on a sandy tropical beach watching the sun set while destroying lizard folk!

however, if you are the type of person who is not proactive and needs to find a lot of pickup groups then vangaurd won't be for you.

Vanguard is for:

soloers (some content is difficult so you might have tackle it at higher lvl)

players in an established guildplayers who are proactive and will actively seek out active guilds.

I was in the mood for a high fantasy game, loaded both eq 2 and vanguard up and to my tastes, vanguard, despite it's issues, is a more interesting world.

Eq2 is about things like "mr. stipple stash has misplaced his spectacles, can you help him find them". It's cutsey. oh, I'm sure there are more serious quests but I just couldn't take it anymore.

I like the danger in VAnguard. I actually die in that game.

LMAO

I wrote this almost 2 years ago about EQII mate, enjoy....

www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Torak/012008/1053_The-wonderful-world-of-EQII-or-Poohbear-has-left-the-building

lol, that was a great blog post.

Remember, Pooh's tummy is always rumbley and Tigger is down in mexico, shacked up with a mexican whore and drinking himself into oblvion. Wait, can I say that on TV?

I agree, games like oblvion or even gothic are far  more the mmo than many mmo's... without the people.

And it's funny because I've been avidly playing oblvion for quite some time.

I have quite a few mods an some mods that make the fighting a bit harder.

Well, last night I was playing and was having some problems with some baddies in a cave. Without "really" thinking, I thought to myself, "I wonder if I'm going to have to get a group for this..."

then I laughed.

In terms of gameplay, world design, and classes, I like Vanguard better.

In terms of dev resources, content, expansions, depth, and having an actual decent population of players, I like EQ2 better.

Both are different games, you should pick what you like better.  Both have trials so try them out.  I've played both extensively, enjoyed my time in them.  But now I'm back in EQ1 and having the best time in MMO's in a long time

Vanguard is suffering from lower population - both player and developer, which can be worrying and makes its future uncertain.

Other than that, it's superior to EQ2.

I loved EQ 1, and was so excited when EQ 2 was released.

But it turned out to be entirely differnt to EQs initial launch content and really was terrible in almost every respect, despite being rather childish as people wrote above it happened to have the least interested armour ever created for an MMO you could be brown, light brown or dark brown.

Streamlined and mindnumbing linearity its dreadful and ruined my hopes of sticking with EQ forever more.

Vanguard tried to be old style EQ and the world is far more similar its open expansive and so on but its just I find a bit slow and tedious after a time I didnt last long in vanguard and nor did any of my friends.

So if you got to choose head back to EQ for a nostalgia trip sometimes and forget this dreadful duo.

Originally posted by Sovrath
 

lol, that was a great blog post.

Remember, Pooh's tummy is always rumbley and Tigger is down in mexico, shacked up with a mexican whore and drinking himself into oblvion. Wait, can I say that on TV?

I agree, games like oblvion or even gothic are far  more the mmo than many mmo's... without the people.

And it's funny because I've been avidly playing oblvion for quite some time.

I have quite a few mods an some mods that make the fighting a bit harder.

Well, last night I was playing and was having some problems with some baddies in a cave. Without "really" thinking, I thought to myself, "I wonder if I'm going to have to get a group for this..."

then I laughed.

Yeah I don't remember exactly what was going through my head at the time...I think I was just trying to say that I didn't understand why SOE was writing on the pre-teen level for content and I was really annoyed with the voice overs.

Recently they (SOE) did a study of their player base and found that the majority of their players are in the 20-30+ range - "surprise" as that is the genres norm despite popular opinion when it comes to a certain big title game. It's amazing to me that that many grown people are able to endure the adolescent mumbo jumbo they put it their games.

There definetly needs to be a move back to content writen on an adult level (UO, EQ, AC at least) as that is mostly who is playing MMO's...adults.

Well after reading all the feedback i decided to give Vanguard a try and i have been playing the demo all day. I am enjoying the game so far and realy like the mechanics of the game. It also looks great on my computer. Ive seen plenty of people walking around and i kind of prefer a smaller population anyway. I used to play EQmac and that had a very low pop but was very fun and more personal because you deal with a lot of the same people.

 Vanguard is a better game, though its far less supported

Having a defensive target in VG is interesting, but that doesn't off-set how dissappointing it is to have Silius as a lead developer and producer. Vg only has 3 developers left now that Tiraslee has been demoted to community class liasion.  Would you rather play EQII with a full staff and tons of support or VG, with 2 developers who must obey every stupid dececion that Silius makes?  You choose.