The removal of the proffesions and skill system really killed the magic of this game. If they could change just one element of NGE that would be the one that might bring people back. But of course they won't. It's such a shame it could have been a great game.

This thread's already pretty full, but I'd like to throw my two credits into the ring.

On the developers' refusal to re-think the NGE, despite massive protests....

I often see people making comments to the effect that SOE just refused listen to the player base. But there's more to it than that.

SOE knew perfectly well that its current player base would hate the idea of the NGE. They knew perfectly well a ton of people would quit the game because of it, as evidenced by the fact that they waited just long enough for everyone to buy Trials of Obi-Wan before announcing the NGE. (That in itself was quite literally purposeful swindling in action.)

They knew, they just didn't give a damn. They didn't care that half the current player base would quit, because they figured that, once the NGE turned Star Wars Galaxies into Walaxies of Starwarcraft, those who quit would be replaced by millions of new customers who liked the new WoW-style game.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't buy Sony products anymore, including the PS3, games they develop/publish (including all Station MMOs) through SOE or any other child company, blank DVD-Rs, TVs, MP3 players, phones... I will never pay SOE or its parent company one cent again, at least not willingly (I might miss their brand on some piece of software or product, or in some fine print).

---

Originally posted by mikejm78

 

<Mod Edit>

---

There's no truly good reason to smash you for enjoying the game as it is now. You weren't there before the NGE, so any loss you might feel is experienced only vicariously, by what pre-NGE players say.

Remember, however, that veterans have every reason to be furious about what happened, and even though you enjoy the game, some of them will posit that you shouldn't play anyway, because you're in essence voting with your wallet.

---

Originally posted by mikejm78

 

<Mod Edit>

---

It is unwise to speak so freely of such things on this forum. I encourage you to edit your post before someone else quotes you.

Every body in the guild i was running quit when the cu hit and we have not looked back.

If you enjoy the game that's cool, i did try it a few times with the free trial, but it just didn't do anything for me.

Originally posted by warmaster670

I so agree.

It makes me angry to think what SWG would be now if SOE had applied the same time and care to Galaxies as CCP did to Eve.

I truly think that with balancing, bug fixing, proper expansions and graphic imnprovements, SWG would now have subs of around five million."

If you think this game would have ever got anywhere near 5 milliong subs your dreaming.

 

 

Five million? I don't think so...

Refresher course for those Vets that have been drinking the NGE bashing koolade for too long.

At Launch: Tons of bugs. I remember losing my equipment after a week. Overall a poorly designed game. However, the star wars theme kept me interested. Kept playing for about 2 months then quit because of all the bugs. Was a MASTER BE / CH.

Friend Reached Jedi: I resubbed, because I thought that it was very unique and overall cool idea. (Not just some fairy tale like it was at launch. My friend mastered 27 professions before reaching Jedi.) Played for about a month and then said screw this...

Came back after Lightspeed xpac / pre-nge: Liked space combat and not the dreaded I missed the shuttle... but in the end still thought the game was crap and dropped out after a couple weeks.

Post-NGE: I accually liked the game better than I did at launch. (Given I wasn't a fan of the game prior to NGE. Bug ridden mess with absolutely no direction and lack of coordination amoung content.) However, the community was so outraged by the NGE I couldn't enjoy it, and there was more bugs inserted in now. (Jedi quest mobs getting stuck in mountains and tents.) Also, My jedi friend said he would light my house on fire with me in it if I sub to the game. (Apparently, he was upset that the years of game time getting pretty much wiped out.)

In Conclusion, this game would of head towards the trash can regaurdless of the direction SOE took it. I will say it would be further away from the trash can than it is now, but definitally would still be heading that way without NGE. The fundamentals of this game has always been FUBAR. I could make a list, but I don't want to make this post a novel of about what is jacked up then and what is jacked up still. THE ONLY thing this game had going for it was the community, and when that was destroyed that was then beginning of the end. This game sucked then and it sucks now... PERIOD.

Originally posted by Homergdog

Originally posted by warmaster670

I so agree.

It makes me angry to think what SWG would be now if SOE had applied the same time and care to Galaxies as CCP did to Eve.

I truly think that with balancing, bug fixing, proper expansions and graphic imnprovements, SWG would now have subs of around five million."

If you think this game would have ever got anywhere near 5 milliong subs your dreaming.

 

 

 

Five million? I don't think so...

Refresher course for those Vets that have been drinking the NGE bashing koolade for too long.

At Launch: Tons of bugs. I remember losing my equipment after a week. Overall a poorly designed game. However, the star wars theme kept me interested. Kept playing for about 2 months then quit because of all the bugs. Was a MASTER BE / CH.

Friend Reached Jedi: I resubbed, because I thought that it was very unique and overall cool idea. (Not just some fairy tale like it was at launch. My friend mastered 27 professions before reaching Jedi.) Played for about a month and then said screw this...

Came back after Lightspeed xpac / pre-nge: Liked space combat and not the dreaded I missed the shuttle... but in the end still thought the game was crap and dropped out after a couple weeks.

Post-NGE: I accually liked the game better than I did at launch. (Given I wasn't a fan of the game prior to NGE. Bug ridden mess with absolutely no direction and lack of coordination amoung content.) However, the community was so outraged by the NGE I couldn't enjoy it, and there was more bugs inserted in now. (Jedi quest mobs getting stuck in mountains and tents.) Also, My jedi friend said he would light my house on fire with me in it if I sub to the game. (Apparently, he was upset that the years of game time getting pretty much wiped out.)

In Conclusion, this game would of head towards the trash can regaurdless of the direction SOE took it. I will say it would be further away from the trash can than it is now, but definitally would still be heading that way without NGE. The fundamentals of this game has always been FUBAR. I could make a list, but I don't want to make this post a novel of about what is jacked up then and what is jacked up still. THE ONLY thing this game had going for it was the community, and when that was destroyed that was then beginning of the end. This game sucked then and it sucks now... PERIOD.

 

The game would be doing just fine or very well today, if not for the NGE... PERIOD.

I suppose it would depend on your definition of fine or very well. The post I quoted implied that SWG was growing prior to NGE when it was accually in a decline. NGE happened because they were in a decline and needed to attract new players. Here is the an example of what the estimated population was and what my personal estimate would be today.

500,000 subs prior to NGE (I think everyone would agree on this stat.)

20,000 or so post NGE today (Hard to get an accurate number as SoE to this day won't aknowledge this huge **** up.)

Here is my personal opinion on what it would be if NGE never happened. This is based on limited player growth, dated games stagnate, and all those annoying things about Pre-NGE (Buffing to put armor on.... as an example.)

100,000 or so subs today without NGE.

Now, 20k to 100k is not a huge gap in numbers, but the lost revenue and steady decay of subs over the past 5 YEARS it is an amazing loss. You gotta realize the rapid loss in subs from NGE to 50k or so happened within a year. Where if NGE never happened the rate of decay would of been MUCH slower...

If NGE never happened and we estimate 400k more subs steady decay over 5 years of 100k per year.

2005 = 72 million dollar loss (Comparison of 500k subs to 50k subs at end of year)
2006 = 54 million dollar loss (400k subs to 40k subs)
2007 = 36 million dollar loss (300k subs to 30k subs)
2008 = 18 million dollar loss (200k subs to 20k subs)
2009 = 9 million dollar loss (100k subs to 20k subs)

Estimated Overall loss for NGE = 189 million dollars

This is from my neutral point of view and this is to say a very steady rate of decay. Any number of factors could of happened that could of made this number higher or lower, but I think its safe to say it would be in that ballpark. Needless to say, I am suprised that people still have jobs over at SoE. If I was a shareholder and saw this kind of waste, you bet your bottom dollar that I would use my influence to make heads roll. As I think its safe to say that this "mistake" cost SoE around a quarter of a BILLION dollars. That is a very kind estimate... if you take a Pre-NGE fanboy and dream that SoE had talentented game designers to take SWG to the next level it would be a considerably higher number...

We get a review every time one of the team leaders leave? I guess some drama followed by a  vet trial is due too.

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

We get a review every time one of the team leaders leave? I guess some drama followed by a  vet trial is due too.

Not really that much drama.  When those lead devs left  the Agency, it opened a void in staff which Chris Fields was asked to fill.  Chris left his mark on SWG with this Zombie quest city.  Now its up to Tony to make this GCW Update what the community has been asking for.

Originally posted by Homergdog

I suppose it would depend on your definition of fine or very well. The post I quoted implied that SWG was growing prior to NGE when it was accually in a decline. NGE happened because they were in a decline and needed to attract new players. Here is the an example of what the estimated population was and what my personal estimate would be today.

500,000 subs prior to NGE (I think everyone would agree on this stat.)

20,000 or so post NGE today (Hard to get an accurate number as SoE to this day won't aknowledge this huge **** up.)

Here is my personal opinion on what it would be if NGE never happened. This is based on limited player growth, dated games stagnate, and all those annoying things about Pre-NGE (Buffing to put armor on.... as an example.)

100,000 or so subs today without NGE.

Now, 20k to 100k is not a huge gap in numbers, but the lost revenue and steady decay of subs over the past 5 YEARS it is an amazing loss. You gotta realize the rapid loss in subs from NGE to 50k or so happened within a year. Where if NGE never happened the rate of decay would of been MUCH slower...

If NGE never happened and we estimate 400k more subs steady decay over 5 years of 100k per year.

2005 = 72 million dollar loss (Comparison of 500k subs to 50k subs at end of year)
2006 = 54 million dollar loss (400k subs to 40k subs)
2007 = 36 million dollar loss (300k subs to 30k subs)
2008 = 18 million dollar loss (200k subs to 20k subs)
2009 = 9 million dollar loss (100k subs to 20k subs)

Estimated Overall loss for NGE = 189 million dollars

This is from my neutral point of view and this is to say a very steady rate of decay. Any number of factors could of happened that could of made this number higher or lower, but I think its safe to say it would be in that ballpark. Needless to say, I am suprised that people still have jobs over at SoE. If I was a shareholder and saw this kind of waste, you bet your bottom dollar that I would use my influence to make heads roll. As I think its safe to say that this "mistake" cost SoE around a quarter of a BILLION dollars. That is a very kind estimate... if you take a Pre-NGE fanboy and dream that SoE had talentented game designers to take SWG to the next level it would be a considerably higher number...

hehe kinda glad you aint a stockholder, I mean if stockholders or people into business would think the way you made up that list, WOW the world would be in big trouble.

You see you missing so many things, for starters you have to take a look at the player bas prior to the CU which was perhaps around 150/200k, the was a very small influx of returning players at the CU, but they already left again due to the NGE.

Then the true fact is that no company makes a 100 profit from sub-fee's, so your list is truly nonsense. Like I said glad you not a stockholder.

I will agree that SOE lost money and defintitly lots of money, but the figure's you show are just to funny to even consider you thought about it in a business sense as you are missing just far to much to make you fantasy list credible.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

We get a review every time one of the team leaders leave? I guess some drama followed by a  vet trial is due too.

 

Not really that much drama.  When those lead devs left  the Agency, it opened a void in staff which Chris Fields was asked to fill.  Chris left his mark on SWG with this Zombie quest city.  Now its up to Tony to make this GCW Update what the community has been asking for.

I see. Is the GCW update gonna be what the community is asking for or what Tony thinks will get him up the ladder? Ya know, like zombies.

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

We get a review every time one of the team leaders leave? I guess some drama followed by a  vet trial is due too.

 

Not really that much drama.  When those lead devs left  the Agency, it opened a void in staff which Chris Fields was asked to fill.  Chris left his mark on SWG with this Zombie quest city.  Now its up to Tony to make this GCW Update what the community has been asking for.

 

I see. Is the GCW update gonna be what the community is asking for or what Tony thinks will get him up the ladder? Ya know, like zombies.

<checks Fan Faire note>
 

There have been a number of popular GCW threads pitched by the community that were used for the bases of thier list.

1) All professions will have a stake in the GCW.  Meaning everyone will have something to do.  Combat, Crafting and Social.

2) Empire Day Event is an example of what is wanted to achieve in rounding out the total coverage.

3) Planitary Control will play a role in daily life on a given planet.

4) Planitary Control will dictate what Space Blockade is present (this was a welcome surpise to hear).

5) Player Bases will be revamped to provide a benefit to defending instead of blowing bases.

6) Neurtal play a role in the GCW (Ex. BH get more money for helping the loosing side) [there will be an ongoing result board]. However, as a Neutral does these hunts, they accumalate a bounty on themselves more easily as they haven't chosen a side.

Of course this is a tall order to deliver but this is what Loche and Teasquare want to achieve with the GCW.

Here is what another SWG member Pyro posted about this panel:

planned scope

a) planetary free floating space blockades. they may even consider launch restrictions, keeping in mind the lower level grinders trying to launch from tatooine. penalty of imp blockade in space on rebels on the ground to be determined

b) special vendors only appearing when your side is winning on that planet or in the galaxy

c) empire dominated planets might have at-at spawns with profitable gcw rewards for the rebs who take them out.

d) entertainers can entertain troops, much like the USO. they will try to make it more involved that performing for 4 mins like empire day

e) player cities may align themselves with a faction. they may put up propaganda, just like with empire day. Cities who make that choice will be vulnerable periodically to counter-propaganda by the other side, costing that city PR metrics.

f) crafters donate finished goods or even raw resources

g) financial donations with titles

Here is the Power Point outline of the GCW panel:

*Update 16:

*GCW:

- The war will be a constant backdrop to the game.

- Everyone, of every profession, will be able to make a meaningful contribution for their faction via GCW categories.

*Combat

* Morale

*Supplies

* Public Relations

- Neutrals may contribute to the GCW by “helping” either (or blth) faction sides.

*But not without repercussions.

- War is tracked by various metrics that can be used to determine the general “health’ of each faction

- These metrics can be used to determine, at any time, which side is “winning” the war

-There is no current timeframe for this update
 

In short, the devs know what is expected from the GCW update and want to deliver on as much as possible for it.  The GCW is the overall backdrop of the game and know its so lacking in its current state.

Will Tony and Jesse use this to advance out of SWG?  Possibly but not right now until they get through the current line of updates.  Tony is now juggling 2 hats taking on producer and Jesse has proven to be dedicated to SWG.  However, SWG has been a SOE proving ground for the company and we see folks do a year with it then move up or out to other projects pretty quickly.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

I have seen plenty of "this game use to be good" posts.  Theres a whole section here with them.  I didn't need one with a rating score attached.  I want to know what does a virgin player think of this game who doesn't have our taint  An honest re-review of the systems today.

 

Hell, I could have gone down to my local Game Stop and got this reveiw in 2 minutes.

Yeah, and if that person didn't like the game, you'd want someone who never played an MMO before to review it because playing a game that is nowhere near as bas as SWG is would make them biased against horribly unfun buggy games.

SWG is currently a bad game, not just by the standard of what it used to be, but by the standard of what else is available.  As has been said several times in this thread, the only thing SWG has going for it is the Star Wars name, and the in-game implementation of that is done very poorly.

The main difference between what SWG was and what SWG is, is that it once had potential to be a great game, and now it has no potential to be even a decent game.  Sure gameplay used to be much more fun, but it was always a broken buggy mess.  It is currently as buggy and broken as it ever was, and it lacks the potential to be something more than what it currently is.

SWG would be a great starter MMO for anyone new to the genre.  After playing the worst of what the genre offers, everything else will look great by comparison.  As an added bonus, the companies behind those other games will hide the fact that they hate you, while with SWG, the folks at SOE are more than happy to have their loathing of you right out in the open.

how many does SOE pay for agood score? i bet this game is still a trap!

Should this be called a "Re-Re-Re-Re-Review"?

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

I have seen plenty of "this game use to be good" posts.  Theres a whole section here with them.  I didn't need one with a rating score attached.  I want to know what does a virgin player think of this game who doesn't have our taint  An honest re-review of the systems today.

 

Hell, I could have gone down to my local Game Stop and got this reveiw in 2 minutes.

 

Yeah, and if that person didn't like the game, you'd want someone who never played an MMO before to review it because playing a game that is nowhere near as bas as SWG is would make them biased against horribly unfun buggy games.   No, it would be acceptable for that player to use examples from other games to show the flaws in SWG.  For me, I wouldn't expect a winning score.  The real problem for such a review is for every positive point, there would be ten bais rebukes of why the review was wrong.  This based on what the game was and not its current state.

SWG is currently a bad game, not just by the standard of what it used to be, but by the standard of what else is available.  What standard SWG use to be is considered a loosing formula based on Marketing Research of the WOW player.  Raph Kostner is going to have to work much harder and provide results to make it work.  If that standard is such a good money maker, why hasn't someone made another AAA World Simulator? More to your point, it should not have been released as bug ridden as it was then nor as incomplete as it was. As has been said several times in this thread, the only thing SWG has going for it is the Star Wars name, and the in-game implementation of that is done very poorly.  True enough but how many of these posters who stated SWG's one positive are scarred vets of the game?  What would a un-tainted opinion be?

The main difference between what SWG was and what SWG is, is that it once had potential to be a great game, and now it has no potential to be even a decent game.  By this, you express yourself as a person of absolutes. SWG has as much potential today as it did before the NGE.  In thoery, the inderdependance of the World Simulator locks out the inclusion of new systems that would off balanced one profession over another, as apposed to open development a linear system can achieve. The main differance of the 2 versions is you were happy before the changes and now your much less than happy with it.  Sure gameplay used to be much more fun, but it was always a broken buggy mess.  Very true statement and I agree.  It is currently as buggy and broken as it ever was, and it lacks the potential to be something more than what it currently is.  Now I have to disagree.  Much of the old code has been gutted and replaced with new systems that work better.  This, however, doesn't mean they have the resources, time and people to tackle the one true bug that can fix its problems plegueing it since launch; the base game engine.  Without a true game engine upgrade, there will never be fixes to LOS, true collision, Atmospheric Flight or better client side resource used such as multi-core chip use.  But it will never happen as the vocal veterian base continue to warn new players away, Lucas Arts refuses to market and thus kill the game.

SWG would be a great starter MMO for anyone new to the genre.  Sorry, I disagree.  SWG is a lousey starting MMO as it is so complicated and lacking in documentaition of the different systems for a new player.  This coupled with the different mission and quest systems and Pre-NGE material has a strong overwhelming affect on the new.  After playing the worst of what the genre offers<Absolute again>, everything else will look great by comparison<like AoC, WAR, DDO etc. etc.>.  As an added bonus, the companies behind those other games will hide the fact that they hate you, while with SWG, the folks at SOE are more than happy to have their loathing of you right out in the open.  Totally different topic, but none of them hate you.  They simply don't care about your day to day drama.  Your a number on a spreadsheet that reacts to a game change.  You find this out when you ask the question Why?

 

 

The ground game engine needs to be scraped, it is not fun. The space part of the game needs pvp objectives to fight over that give bonuses to the side owning or capturing it.

There is no real feature in the game that provides people with an experience worth $15 a month.

I have tried many times to go back.  The game just isn't as fun as it once was.  Sure, pre-NGE had it's bugs and it's issues.  But the game was far more fun back then and had far more depth in it's gameplay.  Now it's just a very shallow very weak wow clone with blasters and lightsabers.

I agree with the first response.  If SOE and LEC had spent the last 4 years adding content and polish to what was already in place (pre-nge) instead of nuking the game and trying to rebuild it from scratch they'd have seen the game really grow.   Instead, all they have are a very small number of players and a game that isn't really unique any longer and is sub-par compared to the games it is now trying to mimic.  A real shame too.  SWG could have been so much more than it is now.

I do think this was a decent re-review though.  Everything said is true.  For someone who's never played the original I can see where it would be fun to play for a while.  But the end-game is really lacking.  The PVP battles are nothing compared to in the past (so few players now) etc.  But for a person who wants a bit of star wars SWG could probably provide several weeks to a few months of fun for someone who isn't jaded like those of us who were around from the beginning are.

The main pointer im only going to add is read the last 10 odd page of people saying if there was a classic server or if they released a server with Pre cu.

Count them and mulitpy that by a sub of £8.99.

SOE are sitting on a goldmine and wont do anything about it

./facepalm twice for effect

Originally posted by Gortz

The main pointer im only going to add is read the last 10 odd page of people saying if there was a classic server or if they released a server with Pre cu.

Count them and mulitpy that by a sub of £8.99.

 

SOE are sitting on a goldmine and wont do anything about it

 

./facepalm twice for effect

It would Boom then Bust.  SOE would do the samething Lucas did when he released the original theatrical versions of the Star Wars movies on DVD.  It would be un-altered in the mechanics.  No color corections, digital processing, sound quality upgrade to THX or any additions that made the following versions seem complete.

But Han shot first.

SOE would release the same bug ridden version of SWG that we had prior to the NGE.  It had the most corrected code to that date.  It would have all the troubles from before of bugs, unbalanced professions (Jedi), No FRS, Very empty Space content and less than updated graphics.  It would be a new server so no conversions of existing characters back to Jedi or any progress with the Jedi Village.  Weapons looted or crafted would stil have the CU nerf.  With all that, the launch would be botched as they have no techs that could correct server issues.  Remenber Theed Starport disappearing?

The new players to the Pre-NGE would leave and the old would have a new hate for SOE as they undersupport it for X reason.  It took 75 devs to run Pre-CU, some less after and now around 10-20 to run NGE.  Will SOE hire more folks to run a game that already proved to be a loosing formula.  Carefully read MMOChart.com over the years and different events and you will see SWG was loosing subs from day one.  SOE hasn't the ability nor the monitary will to fix it.

The perfect world situation: Pre-CU mechanics  bug free and balanced with Atmospheric Flight, Collision Dectection, with the addition of the better content of the Post NGE balanced for the World Simulator enviroment.  A Hybred of the game we see today.

That all said, I am from the school  "Han shot first"