Originally posted by popinjay

 

Our system of government makes a tyrant impossible. It's why the framers made it that way.

 

Executive. Legislative. Judical. It builds for checks and balances so tyranny is the last thing on my mind.

 

The only thing I could foresee turning the U.S. government into a tyranny (however unlikely) is if more and more of these people start wearing guns, walking around and "just speaking their minds". Soon or later they are going to run into people who don't agree just as vigorously.

 

Even in states where people are allowed to wear them, most DON'T. If a bunch of people started walking around like this guy with signs about anything they wanted, sooner or later people being people are gonna clash. Then the "other side" (whichever that is) starts to arm up. When that happens, it will be bad and spread overnight. There are some who are trying to make this happen by saying "race wars" and such.

 

 

The day some of that kicks off is the day "tyranny" starts. And the ironic thing is it would have been the morons who were saying it was going to happen, would have been the ones to have triggered it.

You are wrong!  Only the citizens have the power to make tyranny impossible.  The government power comes from the consent of the people it governs.  The Constitution and 3 branches of government are nothing but tools for people who WANT to live in a free republic.   It is the duty of every citizen to defend the Constitution other wise its just a piece of ancient parchment.

---

Originally posted by Porfat

---

Originally posted by popinjay

 

Our system of government makes a tyrant impossible. It's why the framers made it that way.
 

Executive. Legislative. Judical. It builds for checks and balances so tyranny is the last thing on my mind.
 

The only thing I could foresee turning the U.S. government into a tyranny (however unlikely) is if more and more of these people start wearing guns, walking around and "just speaking their minds". Soon or later they are going to run into people who don't agree just as vigorously.
 
Even in states where people are allowed to wear them, most DON'T. If a bunch of people started walking around like this guy with signs about anything they wanted, sooner or later people being people are gonna clash. Then the "other side" (whichever that is) starts to arm up. When that happens, it will be bad and spread overnight. There are some who are trying to make this happen by saying "race wars" and such.
 
 

The day some of that kicks off is the day "tyranny" starts. And the ironic thing is it would have been the morons who were saying it was going to happen, would have been the ones to have triggered it.

---

You are wrong!  Only the citizens have the power to make tyranny impossible.  The government power comes from the consent of the people it governs.  The Constitution and 3 branches of government are nothing but tools for people who WANT to live in a free republic.   It is the duty of every citizen to defend the Constitution other wise its just a piece of ancient parchment.

---

They also have the power to make tyranny possible, which is what I was saying which you missed.

If tons of armed citizens in opposing groups started picking each other in this country, there were be violence shortly after that. It's the American way; "either you listen to me (Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc etc etc) I'll wipe you off the face of the earth." The gun just shows those nuts are serious.

Any government would not allow it's citizens to do that and you can guarantee that's when a "tyrant" would strip the Constitution. When the actions of people made the Constitution's ideals threatened.

In the same way as if a cop came upon a scene with two people holding a gun on each other, he's not going to sit around and listen to the debate of "my constitutional right to own a gun". He's going to order BOTH people put down those weapons, lie face down, shut the hell up and then he's going to TAKE the guns. The courts will figure it out later.

Constitutional rights do not trump public safety. And if these townyellers and some other people started going at it, you can BET there would be a suspension of carrying permits, right or NO right. Thus, the very nutcakes pushing against tyranny were the main ones to help bring it about.

Just like some self-fulfilling prophecy.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

 2nd ammendment rights, I know. But there are limits on rights. You have free speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded room or threaten someone's life. A limit on the 2nd ammendment should be that you are not permitted to go anywhere near any president with a firearm unless you are a member of law enforcement.

 

I'm 100% sure they had constant eyes on this guy, but what happens the next time when 5 people show up with guns? Then 10-20? You can only watch so many people.

 

If I was in Obama's family, I would be outraged.
 

 

If this was 2 years ago, and a muslim man with a turban and a gun strapped to his leg was outside waiting for bush to arrive what would have happened? He would have been taken in in a second and probably added to the terrorist watch list.

You might as well just link the vid here if your gonna paraphrase Cenk.

www.youtube.com/watch

Originally posted by protoroc

Originally posted by Sabiancym

 2nd ammendment rights, I know. But there are limits on rights. You have free speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded room or threaten someone's life. A limit on the 2nd ammendment should be that you are not permitted to go anywhere near any president with a firearm unless you are a member of law enforcement.

 

I'm 100% sure they had constant eyes on this guy, but what happens the next time when 5 people show up with guns? Then 10-20? You can only watch so many people.

 

If I was in Obama's family, I would be outraged.
 

 

If this was 2 years ago, and a muslim man with a turban and a gun strapped to his leg was outside waiting for bush to arrive what would have happened? He would have been taken in in a second and probably added to the terrorist watch list.

 

You might as well just link the vid here if your gonna paraphrase Cenk.

www.youtube.com/watch

After listening to the comments from the newscasters in voice, and not reading about it.

They were stuttering and shocked. LIKE THIS IS NEW AND OMG worthy.

One more step down the road to being anti american I go!

Originally posted by Sabiancym

This could have gone in the other thread, but it's too crowded and this is crazy enough to deserve it's own thread.

 

If the guy did show up with a sidearm and a sign that said that, then he is, in my opinion, an idiot.  However, he is an idiot that is well within his rights as they currently stand in this country.  Everyone has the right to do stupid things; it is a right we all take advantage of at least once a day. ;)

Still, in looking closely at the photo, a few things catch my attention:  the angle on the sign appears to me, from the angle of the picture, wrong for him to be actually holding it with either hand, let alone both.  There's a few inches' distance between his right hand and the sign, and his left arm is at the wrong angle entirely for him to be holding that sign at that angle.  While it is possible that the cardboard backing on the sign has been folded, allowing him to hold it with one hand (his right, the left is still at far too incorrect an angle), it appears that the cardboard has been folded flat - if he had folded it back to use as a handle, the angle of the fold would need to be wider than it appears in the photo.  Also, it appears as if the sign has three layers:  the bottom cardboard, something written on bright yellow paper, then the Jefferson quote on top of that.  There is also the fact that the white paper on which the Jefferson quote is written doesn't quite line up correctly with the rest of the sign.  In fact, there are areas along the right hand side of the sign (right side as you are looking at the photo) that look slightly pixellated.

I've had more than a little experience with protesters, notably Westboro Baptist and folks protesting our military's overseas deployments...while blocking said troops from returning home, no less and in those experiences, it has been extraordinarily rare (as in, I personally have never seen it, rare) for protesters to "paste over" old signs for re-use.

Just a few observations from the peanut gallery, but it wouldn't be the first time the media crossed the line on truth in journalism, would it?

---

Originally posted by Nifa

---

Originally posted by Sabiancym

This could have gone in the other thread, but it's too crowded and this is crazy enough to deserve it's own thread.

 

---

If the guy did show up with a sidearm and a sign that said that, then he is, in my opinion, an idiot.  However, he is an idiot that is well within his rights as they currently stand in this country.  Everyone has the right to do stupid things; it is a right we all take advantage of at least once a day. ;)
 
Still, in looking closely at the photo, a few things catch my attention:  the angle on the sign appears to me, from the angle of the picture, wrong for him to be actually holding it with either hand, let alone both.  There's a few inches' distance between his right hand and the sign, and his left arm is at the wrong angle entirely for him to be holding that sign at that angle.  While it is possible that the cardboard backing on the sign has been folded, allowing him to hold it with one hand (his right, the left is still at far too incorrect an angle), it appears that the cardboard has been folded flat - if he had folded it back to use as a handle, the angle of the fold would need to be wider than it appears in the photo.  Also, it appears as if the sign has three layers:  the bottom cardboard, something written on bright yellow paper, then the Jefferson quote on top of that.  There is also the fact that the white paper on which the Jefferson quote is written doesn't quite line up correctly with the rest of the sign.  In fact, there are areas along the right hand side of the sign (right side as you are looking at the photo) that look slightly pixellated.
I've had more than a little experience with protesters, notably Westboro Baptist and folks protesting our military's overseas deployments...while blocking said troops from returning home, no less and in those experiences, it has been extraordinarily rare (as in, I personally have never seen it, rare) for protesters to "paste over" old signs for re-use.
 
Just a few observations from the peanut gallery, but it wouldn't be the first time the media crossed the line on truth in journalism, would it?

---

So it seems, from the outcome of previous town hall meetings, that guns are less dangerous than purple t-shirts. I think if I were going to a meeting where there was a good chance that SEIU members would be present, I would excersize any legal right I had to bear arms as well.

Originally posted by Nifa

Originally posted by Sabiancym

This could have gone in the other thread, but it's too crowded and this is crazy enough to deserve it's own thread.

 

If the guy did show up with a sidearm and a sign that said that, then he is, in my opinion, an idiot.  However, he is an idiot that is well within his rights as they currently stand in this country.  Everyone has the right to do stupid things; it is a right we all take advantage of at least once a day. ;)

 

Still, in looking closely at the photo, a few things catch my attention:  the angle on the sign appears to me, from the angle of the picture, wrong for him to be actually holding it with either hand, let alone both.  There's a few inches' distance between his right hand and the sign, and his left arm is at the wrong angle entirely for him to be holding that sign at that angle.  While it is possible that the cardboard backing on the sign has been folded, allowing him to hold it with one hand (his right, the left is still at far too incorrect an angle), it appears that the cardboard has been folded flat - if he had folded it back to use as a handle, the angle of the fold would need to be wider than it appears in the photo.  Also, it appears as if the sign has three layers:  the bottom cardboard, something written on bright yellow paper, then the Jefferson quote on top of that.  There is also the fact that the white paper on which the Jefferson quote is written doesn't quite line up correctly with the rest of the sign.  In fact, there are areas along the right hand side of the sign (right side as you are looking at the photo) that look slightly pixellated.

I've had more than a little experience with protesters, notably Westboro Baptist and folks protesting our military's overseas deployments...while blocking said troops from returning home, no less and in those experiences, it has been extraordinarily rare (as in, I personally have never seen it, rare) for protesters to "paste over" old signs for re-use.

 

Just a few observations from the peanut gallery, but it wouldn't be the first time the media crossed the line on truth in journalism, would it?

It's on video and he was interviewed.

Can I just quickly remind all the Americans in this thread that they live in a 1st world country and not Somalia. There seems to be an obsession on these forums about end-times, tyrants, revolutions and other such nonsense. Not happening in your life-time, I think a lot of you have over-active minds.

Continue.

Originally posted by Bigdavo

Can I just quickly remind all the Americans in this thread that they live in a 1st world country and not Somalia. There seems to be an obsession on these forums about end-times, tyrants, revolutions and other such nonsense. Not happening in your life-time, I think a lot of you have over-active minds.

Continue.

Thank you!! My sentiment exactly! Finally someone with some common sense. To many people with far too much imagination and too much time on their hands making predictions that sound like something out of a Mad Max movie or a Fallout game.

how is this guy a lunatic?

Originally posted by Bigdavo

Can I just quickly remind all the Americans in this thread that they live in a 1st world country and not Somalia. There seems to be an obsession on these forums about end-times, tyrants, revolutions and other such nonsense. Not happening in your life-time, I think a lot of you have over-active minds.

Continue.

I think there is a decent amount of people who actually want a civil war.  They want to be the patriotic heroes they read about and quote daily.  They would like nothing more than for one of these things to get out of hand so they can have an excuse for declaring a war.

Although it's no where near the majority of people on either side of the issue.

Originally posted by Swafdawg23

how is this guy a lunatic?

The guy is a fanatic for a political cause, would not say he is a lunatic, he knew exactly what he was doing with enough intelligence to spit out his rights.

But the Second Amendment was important 200 years ago, when the colonists army were made up of local militia groups.  This guy thinks it still applies literally as much today as it did then, and to me it seems like his actions were meant to promote intimidation not only at the town hall meetings but against the current U.S. Presidency in general.  This right-wing militia type behaviour is shocking, and while I do not beleive he is a lunatic ... I do beleive he may be tunnel visioned by his cause and possibly could be dangerous to those around him.

Just to be clear, only stating my opinion on the guy since he placed himself in a position to be judged and talked about... not making an argument for or against the right to bear arms.

(edit = typo)

How do some of you people even manage to walk out your front door in the morning if you live in such fear and piss yourselves so easily?

The Republcan bashers are off base here. The guy is a Libertarian. He doesn't like Republicans or Democrats, and he's just exercising his right to free speech, and right to bear arms.

If you don't like those rights, then change the constitution with an Amendment.

I watched the interview of this guy with Chris MAtthews. MAtthews came off like an insulting dolt, and this guy was calm and articulate. He' not a threat to Obama, or any other person that isn't trying to harm him or rob him. The gun is for self defense, and he's allowed to carry it in his State.

If you don't believe the State is allowed to make this sort of rule, then again, Amend the Consitution to get rid of States rights.

Originally posted by Bigdavo

Can I just quickly remind all the Americans in this thread that they live in a 1st world country and not Somalia. There seems to be an obsession on these forums about end-times, tyrants, revolutions and other such nonsense. Not happening in your life-time, I think a lot of you have over-active minds.

Continue.

So, exercising one's rights is believing that one lives in a third world country, near end times, et cetera?

 dont see any problems here.

I like how this garnered more attention on the news than anything else. In one of the news videos, they remain to "keep a close eye" on the man, and will "give updates as soon as possible if something happens".

Rather than take the opportunity to talk about the reform bill, they are, yet again, talking about stupid crap that wouldn't make a bit of difference anyway.

Who is talking about the actual bill on the news? Actually citing it, not just making random remarks. I don't care what a politician says, they can say whatever the hell they want, it doesn't matter because it's not written in stone. I want to see more news discussion of the Actual bill. Not just tabloid coverage of the stupidest questions ever.. so they can glean a laugh from the fanbois.

Originally posted by aeroplane22

I like how this garnered more attention on the news than anything else. In one of the news videos, they remain to "keep a close eye" on the man, and will "give updates as soon as possible if something happens".

Rather than take the opportunity to talk about the reform bill, they are, yet again, talking about stupid crap that wouldn't make a bit of difference anyway.

Who is talking about the actual bill on the news? Actually citing it, not just making random remarks. I don't care what a politician says, they can say whatever the hell they want, it doesn't matter because it's not written in stone. I want to see more news discussion of the Actual bill. Not just tabloid coverage of the stupidest questions ever.. so they can glean a laugh from the fanbois.

Maybe it turns into this when politicians and lobbyists instead of working on a compromise and a solution  for the common good, resort to finger pointing and a general defeatism, could be they see any reform bill as an illusion without a desirable outcome.

Don't take what I just said seriously, Im just very dissapointed by the animosity on both sides instead of actualy trying to work together.