It's like saying "We don't have confidence that our game will have high subscription retention".   Every game I can think of that has a lifetime subscription has been a failure.  (EG. WW2 Online)

I thought about getting Champions since Cryptic made City of Heroes which was a decent game, but then I saw the lifetime subscription thing, coupled with the game being published by Atari of all companies....

Well not every game. LotRo has a lifetime package and has been doing "Ok" . If Champions last for more then 13 months @ 15.00 a month = 195.00. So if the game can last more then that then the lifetime package will be the way to go. Only time will tell. =)

*Rolls eyes*

Good lord, not this old and tired argument again ...

Look, offering a lifetime sub doesn't mean the game is a failure.

Perfect example: LotRO. It's not running WoW numbers but it seems to be doing a hell of a lot better than other MMOs.

Anyhoo .. I don't like CO, and I wouldn't buy the lifetime .. but I'm glad it's there for those that want it, and I hope more MMO companies offer it.

Like the previous poster said. LOTRO did it and it wasn't a total failure. To me though, A game that has regular sub fees, an item mall and lifetime subs is a game that is trying to make as much money in as little time as possible. I'm on the fence with the game.  I want to tranfer my Aion pr-order over to this game. But I'm scared to get burned by another mmo. There have been too many lately that just aren't fun.

Yeah, I'd hardly call LotRo a 'failure,' since it consistently ranks in the top two or three non-WoW titles in terms of sub numbers and favorable reviews.

As with Turbine, I suspect Cryptic needs an infusion of capital as the development process draws to a close and they've blown their financial wad on the high costs of making a game.  It is also a very smart PR move, as fans who can afford it absolutely love the option.  MMOs are already one of the best entertainment values around ($15 bucks a month for unlimited access, you can't beat that), and essentially making the game free to play after a year is a no-brainer.

I wish every MMO did this.  I paid for two lifetime LotRo subs, will be paying for the Champions lifetime, and am hopeful (but doubtful) for a lifetime option on TOR, APB, and FF14.

 No, it just means "we need money ASAP" as in the need to fullfill some multi-million dollar debt or quota, along with the RMTs + retail fee, they just shout the need for short-term income, something monthly fees cannot deliver.

Hardly.  It's a smart move.  Getting the money up front is (almost) always better than getting it in installments.

... But remember guys! To be a success an MMOG has to have over 11 million subs worldwide!!!

Not

WoW is an aberration, it is an anomaly that should never, ever be considered a benchmark for an MMOGs success or failure level. 50k to 100k unique users might be a success for some companies, or even less than that.

As for the Lifetime subscription being a sign of a bad game destined to fail... that is ridiculous.

Lord of the Rings had lifetime subs... I consider that a good investment.

And yet, Hellgate London also had lifetime subs.

I thought about buying the CO lifetime sub, because usually its a good investment.. after 2 years it pays for itself. But then I remembered that Bill Roper was involved in CO now. And they're implementing a microtransaction system.

I decided I'll just stick to Aion until FF14 comes out.

I played lotro for awhile and was almost convinced to get the life-time until I realized it was only a trick to make you feel secure. If I had paid for the life time I'd likely be playing now because I'd feel as if I should be. Thank god I didn't and I was able to leave once I got bored of orcs/goblins 24/7 (Moria anyone?) LOL

Anyways, just my two cents but getting a life-time subscription is a waste of your hard earned cash unless you plan to play the game (and feel as if you should be) for a long long long time...most people are bored of an mmo after 1-2 years anyway.

You do realize, as others have said, that LotRO has a lifetime sub?  Many people would not consider that game a failure.  I think it's a subscription option that needs to be added to more games.  I would have saved a fortune on CoH had it offered this option.  My husband has been playing WoW for 4 years.  I also wish they had a lifetime sub.  I think it's great that MMO's are offering alternatives to the monthly fee.

Lord of the Rings Online is a failure....

Less than 200,000 subscriptions and less than 1% of the total market share = failure.

So when did trying to generate money considered a failure? I wish I could afford the $199.99, but I have bills to pay. I will be picking up the $69.99 deal though (that's roughly the price of a console game and not hard to swallow). I think part of that money is to show investors that their MMO could turn a profit. Thus justifying investors to fork over more cash to fuel STO. I mean come on now........Cryptic is no Blizzard. The company has nothing to stand on other than these 2 MMOs. They are still a independent developer, whether you want to believe that or not.

i have no idea how champions online will turn out, but i bought a lifetime to LOTRO, and love it. i'd buy a lifetime to pretty much all mmos i'm intrested in. i'd kill to be able to just log into any mmo i like, they'd all remain installed, and when i felt like playing i would. thats the great thing about lifetimes. i've had probably about 13 or 14 mmos come and go on my harddrives over the last few years, but LOTRO is the only one thats always there. i understand about that feeling of should be playing, but honestly, that happens to me even with a 15$ a month sub. LOTRO is paid for now, it's really no different to me, then crysis, for when i want to play it.

Lifetime sub is a fantastic idea if you can afford it. I've spent over $500 on wow since release. Between me and my wife that would be a $600 savings, if they offered a $200 lifetime sub.. And that is just for wow, not all of the other games we play. If I didn't  have to go to the trouble of setting up payment every time, I would be more willing to log back into a game I played in the past.

And don't sweat Bill Roper's presence. Cryptic was established before he ran his own company into the ground. You can bet your bottom dollar they have him on some sort of leash, since it is Cryptic's Pee Pot now.

Originally posted by Emotep

Lord of the Rings Online is a failure....

Less than 200,000 subscriptions and less than 1% of the total market share = failure in my opinion (which by the way, does not take into account any of the financial data or success/failure metrics that Turbine uses to determine whether or not their investment of manpower and capital is worth continuing).

 

Fixed that for you.

Lol, honestly why do people who have no knowledge of a company's internal data think they can throw around subjective, nearly meaningless words like 'success' or 'failure?'

Have you ever owned a business?  I doubt it, but if you have, you'd know that success is being open for business, and generating revenue that is higher than your expenses.  'Failure' is the opposite, and results in closure.  Yes there are varying degrees of both, but since you're throwing around simplistic generalizations, here is one that is actually contains a kernel of truth.

Turbine's bean-counters aren't stupid.  They know there is no way in hell they (or anyone else) will ever approach huge market share due to WoW.  But (and this is where you're having a disconnect) they clearly don't define success/failure in terms of market share.  If they did, the game would go away.

LotRo is a healthy game at the moment.  This is not arguable.  All I have to do to disprove your claims is look to see if the servers are still up.

/debate

*edited for grammar

Originally posted by Emotep

Lord of the Rings Online is a failure....

Less than 200,000 subscriptions and less than 1% of the total market share = failure.

 

 

thanks for posting almost year and a half old graphs..... and considering it's making turbine a fair amount of money, not a failure.

Originally posted by Emotep

Lord of the Rings Online is a failure....

Less than 200,000 subscriptions and less than 1% of the total market share = failure.

 

200k is a very sustainable number for a game to survive and generate a profit on.  It really depends on how much resources were put into the game to really qualify it as a failure.  100 million dollars spent to obtain 200k users is a failure.  5 million spent to get 200k users is a huge success. 

I would not call lotro a failure, but I wouldn't say that it is living up to the potential of the intellectual property it has either.  

What scares me about the life time subscriptions is the feeling that the company is just going to change gameplay in the future that will nearly force players into some other sort of revenue grab to get additional monies to make up for "lost" subscriber fees.  Seeing that there will be microtransactions in this game gives me more reason to think this is the destiny for the game. 

It is simply business strategy.  if you pay monthly it will probably be what 14.99 so 199.99 goes 13 months.  

If you eliminate WOW from the numbers you will see most MMO's last about 6 to 8 months before it settles down.  8 months on out numbers ussually decline unless you are really lucky.  If they can lock in alot of people with the lifetime subscription they come out ahead.  

It just really tells me they have no faith in the longevity of the game outside the MMO norm.  They expect it to last no more than any other MMO.  As any business today will base their projections on the businesses before them.  

For us users we have to decide if it is worth it to us.  I know personally the last few MMO's I have played have not kept me for more than 6 months.  So I am not gonna fall for the lifetime ploy.  The 6 month is looking attractive however.   

Easy way to determine validity of this offer.

Does the lifetime subscription come with at least a 1 year gaurantee of service?

If it does then it's a great deal and everyone should jump on board.  If they are not giving at least 1 year promise, there is no point in doing it, they have no confidence in their game.