Originally posted by rr2real

Originally posted by Xasapis

Whatever game you're paying money to skip content instead of adding content is a flawed game. If that game was of good quality, you'd be gaining that sword as a natural progression of your PvP gameplay.

 

yea but there are people out there that will get it faster and make it unfair

Unfair you say? So the people with the fat wallets (presumably you) should have an advantage and just buy the place out? That's not a game, that's real life.  :p

 

How is that possible in a non-RMT game? There are no shortcuts and the path is the same for everyone.

Originally posted by todayisblue

Originally posted by rr2real

Originally posted by Xasapis

Whatever game you're paying money to skip content instead of adding content is a flawed game. If that game was of good quality, you'd be gaining that sword as a natural progression of your PvP gameplay.

 

yea but there are people out there that will get it faster and make it unfair

Unfair you say? So the people with the fat wallets (presumably you) should have an advantage and just buy the place out? That's not a game, that's real life.  :p
sosdfso
 

because i don't like to sit at my computer 24/7 grinding out gear if i deem that it will be better to buy the item than to spend my time and money getting it i'll buy it

Originally posted by todayisblue

...

Unfair you say? So the people with the fat wallets (presumably you) should have an advantage and just buy the place out? That's not a game, that's real life.  :p

 

This is not about fairness or RL money. This is about RMT affecting the quality of the core game by its existence. I wouldn't care at all if the RMT did not affect the core game, for all I care they could spend their entire fortune in ingame items. Unfortunately, for that to happen, the RMT has to dump down the core game. Which ultimately affects the quality of the game I play and the time I spend.

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by todayisblue

...

Unfair you say? So the people with the fat wallets (presumably you) should have an advantage and just buy the place out? That's not a game, that's real life.  :p

 

 

This is not about fairness or RL money. This is about RMT affecting the quality of the core game by its existence. I wouldn't care at all if the RMT did not affect the core game, for all I care they could spend their entire fortune in ingame items. Unfortunately, for that to happen, the RMT has to dump down the core game. Which ultimately affects the quality of the game I play and the time I spend.

what do you care if i buy x sword and you grind for it?

Originally posted by rr2real

Originally posted by todayisblue

Originally posted by rr2real

Originally posted by Xasapis

Whatever game you're paying money to skip content instead of adding content is a flawed game. If that game was of good quality, you'd be gaining that sword as a natural progression of your PvP gameplay.

 

yea but there are people out there that will get it faster and make it unfair

Unfair you say? So the people with the fat wallets (presumably you) should have an advantage and just buy the place out? That's not a game, that's real life.  :p
sosdfso
 

because i don't like to sit at my computer 24/7 grinding out gear if i deem that it will be better to buy the item than to spend my time and money getting it i'll buy it

you're using circular arguements and failing to comprehend the OP's point. everyone else is in agreement. let's move along

/thread.
 

Originally posted by todayisblue

Originally posted by rr2real

Originally posted by todayisblue

Originally posted by rr2real

Originally posted by Xasapis

Whatever game you're paying money to skip content instead of adding content is a flawed game. If that game was of good quality, you'd be gaining that sword as a natural progression of your PvP gameplay.

 

yea but there are people out there that will get it faster and make it unfair

Unfair you say? So the people with the fat wallets (presumably you) should have an advantage and just buy the place out? That's not a game, that's real life.  :p
sosdfso
 

because i don't like to sit at my computer 24/7 grinding out gear if i deem that it will be better to buy the item than to spend my time and money getting it i'll buy it

you're using circular arguements and failing to comprehend the OP's point. everyone else is in agreement. let's move along

/thread.
 

Exactly, you know that thing people say "No one has a wrong opinion"? Yea Im sorry this rr2real has a wrong opinion. 

-Jive

Originally posted by rr2real

...

because i don't like to sit at my computer 24/7 grinding out gear if i deem that it will be better to buy the item than to spend my time and money getting it i'll buy it

But that's exactly the catch. The core game was dumped down so you are either forced to grind or spend money on the RMT to avoid it. Do you understand that the grind was specifically introduced with the RMT transactions in mind? The grind in this case was intentional, so you would feel necessary to buy from the RMT.

Originally posted by rr2real

...

what do you care if i buy x sword and you grind for it?

If it wasn't for the RMT shop, the developers would try to battle the grind. Instead, because of the RMT, they try to introduce even more, just so as to make the RMT items appealing.

I can't see playing a game with a RMT shop, to me it undercuts character progression/community; when someone can buy their way to the top you don't have a real game imo. Think about the people that buy accounts... does anyone really respect them for spending money on something they didn't really earn in game? are they good players? Think about salary caps in sports, there is a good reason for those.

Game companies with a good game can undoubtedly make a profit with monthly subs, the only reason to try something else is because you don't have a good game and are desperatly trying to find some other way of making money without actually making a good game.

Much depends on how the microtransactions are implemented, however there are other threads on this forum that have reviewed the mechanics of RMT quite thoroughly.  Some other points to consider.

In some parts of the world, (particularly in eastern Asia) RMT/cash shops are the preferred payment model vs subscriptions, and games developed primarily for that market of course use what the customers demand.

But even in the west, there are many people who actually can't afford to pay monthly subs, quite a few of them in fact, so they enjoy the "F2P" model with occasional purchases from the cash shop.  (or not, many never pay a dime)

There are also casual gamers who might try a game if they could "pay as they go".  I myself pay for anywhere from 3-7 monthly sub fees which  can add up to almost a grand a year just to play a couple of MMO's.  I have to skip trying other games because I just can't afford yet another fee.

Also, as pointed out by others, MMORPG's are getting more expensive to make (no, they are, do a bit of research and you'll find much written about it) and even companies who used to follow the subscription only model are now experiementing with other methods of revenue enhancement.  (yes, even Blizzard does it to some extent with their account transfer fees, items in game from trading cards etc)

No doubt, games designed around the cash shop can be quite bad, but unfortunately, having a subscription based model is no guarantee of quality, looking right at AOC, WAR and DF as recent examples of games released before they were really ready for prime time. (and we'll see more coming up I suspect, looking at you MO)

We'll see lots of experiments in RMT in the next few years, from item shops to selling of actual content areas, to in game selling of currency.  No telling where it will all end up, but as others have speculated, eventually a few of the most profitable and acceptable to customers will be adopted by a majority of the development houses.

In Asia there are other payment options involved, much more appealing to the gamers than the companies. Such a payment method is the one by the time gaming. 300hrs (10hrs per day if divided) cost the same as a monthly subscription. The difference is that you can be as casual or hardcore as you like with that model, unlike our subscription model.

I don't have an issue with F2P games with RMT shops. Thy are designed in a certain way, the way of the dumped down core gameplay in favour of the RMT shops. This is the reason I avoid them. The best of them can barely match the quality of the worst subscription based MMO.

As I also said, I don't have a problem paying more in terms of subscription, if need be. Or paying for an expanded gameplay (in terms of modules). In this manner the game is getting expanded and more content is added to be experienced.

The best compromise I can think of is DDO, which is a much better deal than CO. I can pay a premium fee and have the whole game open to me, or go F2P and pay whatever I can afford or want to play next. CO on the other hand is forcing both a premium subscription fee and an RMT shop on top of that, bringing the worst of both worlds in one model. I definitely hope that this particular model is not well received. Especially if you consider that they intend to use it on Star Trek Online as well.

Originally posted by rr2real

what do you care if i buy x sword and you grind for it?

I don't because I won't grind and you'll be paying ridiculous amounts of money to play a game most people won't play for more than a few hours. Forcing massive grinds to encourage micro-transactions sucks. This is the big lie behind micro-transactions. To get enough money from players they HAVE to do something to make them pay. Those things can't be  just aesthetic or meaningless. They're always going to be  game breaking for most players. If you could actually build a low budget MMO that didn't suck micro-transactions would work but no one has done it yet.

I like how the people who are so against micro transactions are using arguments about paying for epic gear and that game companies want you to buy it so they increase the grind to force you into paying yet there is not one single game that is worth a damn that has micro transactions that let you buy anything more than crap items that  give zero gameplay advantages, aside from EQ2 which limits it to a specific server.

Micro transactions to buy good gear would likely never happen in a good game.

Micro transactions to buy crap like a new dress doesn't change a thing and just upsets those on welfare that want a new dress.

Originally posted by Xasapis

The best compromise I can think of is DDO, which is a much better deal than CO. I can pay a premium fee and have the whole game open to me, or go F2P and pay whatever I can afford or want to play next. CO on the other hand is forcing both a premium subscription fee and an RMT shop on top of that, bringing the worst of both worlds in one model.

I hope you realize with the subscription to DDO the cash shop is still there and can still be used by those who are paying to play DDO.  For them it's the same model being used by CO.

But... for some reason DDO isn't going to be "dumped" down the same way as CO because?... Why?

I'd also like to point out that you have no idea how CO is going to be.  Judging by another game that's almost exactly like the CO model and game, CoX.. I would say you are way off base.

But, please, continue with your unfounded remarks.

Microtransactions doesn't suck in itself, it's the rmt parasite market that suck. They hack accounts, steal ingame items, use bots, exploit the hell outta whatever game they sell ingame gold for and so on. In many ways I wish most developers go about selling the gold themselfes. Then we mostly would've gotten rid of the parasites that plague our favourite genre.

I wouldn't use it myself, but I know alot of people buy ingame gold cause they don't want to farm it themselfes for whatever reason and if developers sold that gold themselfes atleast I would know the money would go to the right pocket, even though I'm for the most part against that practice.

You mean that you can still use the RMT even as a subscriber? Interesting, didn't notice that. My compromise doesn't sound that good any longer, hehe.

What's the difference between a gold seller selling gold to help bypass a grind and the developer selling gold to help bypass a grind? For a player's point of view, none. They are both gold sellers.

The positive effect is that you don't risk getting banned for buying gold and the negative effect is that the developer is more inclined to introduce more grinds so as to sell more gold, instead of trying to figure a way to lessen them. The "unofficial" gold seller can't affect the game for those who don't participate in gold selling, while the "official" gold seller does affect the game by creating even more grinds so as to increase his revenue.

Originally posted by JMoney95

 

Micro transactions to buy good gear would likely never happen in a good game.

Micro transactions to buy crap like a new dress doesn't change a thing and just upsets those on welfare that want a new dress.

Which is why there are no good micro-transaction games. There aren't any micro-transaction games that sell only crap like a new dress. They don't exist. The cake is a lie.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by Xasapis

The best compromise I can think of is DDO, which is a much better deal than CO. I can pay a premium fee and have the whole game open to me, or go F2P and pay whatever I can afford or want to play next. CO on the other hand is forcing both a premium subscription fee and an RMT shop on top of that, bringing the worst of both worlds in one model.

I hope you realize with the subscription to DDO the cash shop is still there and can still be used by those who are paying to play DDO.  For them it's the same model being used by CO.

But... for some reason DDO isn't going to be "dumped" down the same way as CO because?... Why?

I'd also like to point out that you have no idea how CO is going to be.  Judging by another game that's almost exactly like the CO model and game, CoX.. I would say you are way off base.

But, please, continue with your unfounded remarks.

There is a BIG difference!

If you are a subscriber in DDO you get 500 TP every month to spend in the store + you get 25 TP for every 100 favor you get in the game so you will never have to buy anything extra. The way cryptic is going with CO is just greedy and I will never touch that game because of it.
 

But please, continue with your unfounded remarks...