This question pertains to those who have played Dark Ages of Camelot (DAoC).  If you played DAoC you know as well as I do that the RvR system has not been succeeded by any game as of late. The complexity of Mythic's RvR system in Dark Ages of Camelot was shown through the use of the Tower and Keep system, battles including three different realms (Midgard, Hibernia, and Albian) clashing for the ownership of foreign or domestic strongholds to caputre relics yeilding power to give it's owning realm a step up in battle. Attacks on keeps and towers in which all three realms were present each bringing their own 200+ force to colide in a zerg of death. The offensive use of siege weapons to blow holes in keep walls or to raise towers, or deploying bastilas or trebuchette's in an attempt to defend your keep.

Are there any games that even come close to this caliber of a game? 

Never played DAoC, but it seems like it would be epic.

DAoC, as a whole, is not even close to being perfect.  But, it's RvR system is.  Never have I played a gamer where not two but three opposing forces wage war in a triangle of hate.  These days MMO developers think that having one side fight the other is the best thing since sliced bread.  I don't think they could get away with four sides, but three sides is is a perfect number.  Having three sides is a lot more action altogether, a lot more competitive, increasingly more tactical, and a lot more fun.

I was a Midgardian myself and there was nothing like defending a keep from hibernia from the North and then have Albian show up and start attacking from the south.  It's even better when they both get into the Keep's courtyard and attack each other.  LMAO everytime.

Originally posted by Tixter

Never have I played a gamer where not two but three opposing forces wage war in a triangle of hate. 

Planetside.

Well i played DOAC for quite a bit in its early days and dont recall it being perfect..the keeps for the most part were irrelevant hence they added darkness falls and so on to try to give it consequence..

DOACS best features to me were..the cloak symbols..the armour dye..the overall dark ages setting and lore...but it had a very EQ lite feel to its PvE and though i enjoyed sieges to an extent they never turned out as wel as one expected...

Why mythic didnt however just make DoAC 2 with a warhammer label slapped on with tons if improvmenets..and instead made..WoWhammer I have no idea.

An improved upon DAoC would be something I would consider playing.  While I enjoyed my time in DAoC up until the release of ToA I think we all should let this game die with as much dignity as it has remaining.  My mind still boggles at the extreme failure of WAR - why Mythic did not improve upon a tested RvR system?!? 

DAoC was the greatest MMO ever since original UO.

Too bad Mythic desided to ruin it with their "NGE" called Trials of Atlantis...if they had kept the same theme they had in start they'd still have 300k subscripters if not more.

Originally posted by kishe

DAoC was the greatest MMO ever since original UO.

 

Too bad Mythic desided to ruin it with their "NGE" called Trials of Atlantis...if they had kept the same theme they had in start they'd still have 300k subscripters if not more.

I dunno about the "greatest" but it was definately pretty darn good before ToA. I remember servers always full and jumping round the clock.

Game companies really, really need to learn that once you put a bullet to the head, you can't just expect a "rez" once you bandage it up and say "all better now". DAoC has been dead now a heck of a lot longer then it was alive.

Mythic was always in incompetent company at running DAoC & I have no clue why anyone thought WAR would be any different.

I think a lot of PvP games would do so much better if they used a 3rd faction instead of the standard 2 (Good vs Evil). Having a 2nd enemy is one reason why DAOC fondly remains in the heart of many players

Die Hibbies!

PvE in DAoC was also very good. Lots of cool dungeons, places to camp, and good grouping dynamics.

Mythic has this issue where they think they need to do what other games are doing.

With DAOC, they thought they needed to create raids and a lot of hardcore PVE content like EQ had. It was a major mistake (admittedly so) and DAOC never recovered from it.

With WAR, they felt they needed the game to be very WOW-like (in parts) but it wasn't like WOW - more like a bad attempt to copy WOW.

Its funny, if Mythic would just be Mythic and do the things they do like great RVR and some really cool features like public quests, I think their games could be fantastic.

However, they are too busy trying to copy other games to bring in new players. The beauty of DAOC, when it launched, was  that it was its own game. It felt different and was different from the other games on the market.

I also think Mythic fell into the trap of trying to only cater to the high level players. For example, the level 20 command, to me, killed the low level game and made DAOC one of the hardest games to enter. To fix that, they introduced task dungeons and a lot of solo aspects to the game which ultimately made the game feel like anything but what it was when it came out.

I love DAOC (the older pre-TOA) DAOC and would go back in a heartbeat but Mythic needs to do some things with this new server to make the game viable again. The level 20 command needs to go away, buffbots need to be done away with much less controlled, among other things.

Even though I love the game still, it feels like a thin shell of the game I loved and cut my MMO teeth on.

EDIT: Typos

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Originally posted by templarga
Mythic has this issue where they think they need to do what other games are doing.
With DAOC, they thought they needed to create raids and a lot of hardcore PVE content like EQ had. It was a major mistake (admittedly so) and DAOC never recovered from it.
With WAR, they felt they needed the game to be very WOW-like (in parts) but it wasn't like WOW - more like a bad attempt to copy WOW.
Its funny, if Mythic would just be Mythic and do the things they do like great RVR and some really cool features like public quests, I think their games could be fantastic.
However, they are too busy try to copy other games to being in new players. The beauty of DAOC when it launched was  that it was its own game. It felt different and was different from the other games on the market.
I also think Mythic fell into the trap of trying to only cater to the high level players. For example, the level 20 command, to me, killed the low level game and made DAOC one of the hardest games to enter. To fix that, they introduced task dungeons and a lot of solo aspects to the game which ultimately made the game feel like anything but what it was when it came out.
I love DAOC (the older pre-TOA) DAOC and would go back in a heartbeat but Mythic needs to do some things with this new server to make the game viable again. The level 20 command needs to go away, buffbots need to be done away with much less controlled, among other things.
Even though I love the game still, it feels like a thin shell of the game I loved and cut my MMO teeth on.

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Yeah Mythic has good ideas but a shitty engine. They should buy some Korean L2 developers to show them how to program a decent netcode (and animations if we are at it).

Have to agree with others, if Mythic had stopped trying to copy other games they'd have been far more successful in the long run.

WAR should have pulled far more ideas from DAOC than it did which was why I didn't care for it.

I'd love to see a DAOC 2 but i think the game might have been a one time phenomenon, no way to really recapture the magic.

Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 

 

Yeah Mythic has good ideas but a shitty engine. They should buy some Korean L2 developers to show them how to program a decent netcode (and animations if we are at it).

Personally, if DAoC ended up looking like a Korean L2 or Aion I more then likely would have passed on it.  To me, DAoC was gritty, and real and worked just fine with it's style.  All the flashy jumping around, and twirling and oversized weapons are, to me, not what the game was about.

There's always WAR...../barf.

you guys know the game is still around, right?

the good thing about older games, is the communities.  Some of the most friendly people Ive met in MMO's have been in older games like DAoC

Originally posted by Rayx0r

you guys know the game is still around, right?

the good thing about older games, is the communities.  Some of the most friendly people Ive met in MMO's have been in older games like DAoC

/agreed

I just started the trial back up (I sadly sold my account couple years ago).  I am loving it.  And now they are going to merge all remaining servrees into one mega server which will bring back alot of people.  Add those people into the ones playing alreayd and your going to have a real bumping server.

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Originally posted by Whipp555
Well i played DOAC for quite a bit in its early days and dont recall it being perfect..the keeps for the most part were irrelevant hence they added darkness falls and so on to try to give it consequence..
DOACS best features to me were..the cloak symbols..the armour dye..the overall dark ages setting and lore...but it had a very EQ lite feel to its PvE and though i enjoyed sieges to an extent they never turned out as wel as one expected...
Why mythic didnt however just make DoAC 2 with a warhammer label slapped on with tons if improvmenets..and instead made..WoWhammer I have no idea.

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Ok you know about darkness falls, but you keep saying "DOAC"

its DAOC you nub

DAOC
DAOC

TYPE IT FIFTY TIMES SO YOU STOP SCREWING IT UP

DAOC DAOC DAOC

and consequences, wtf are you talking about? RvR was FUN. Thats all you needed.
FUn. No stupid ass consequences or benefits.

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Originally posted by Illius

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Originally posted by -aLpHa-

 
 
Yeah Mythic has good ideas but a shitty engine. They should buy some Korean L2 developers to show them how to program a decent netcode (and animations if we are at it).

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Personally, if DAoC ended up looking like a Korean L2 or Aion I more then likely would have passed on it.  To me, DAoC was gritty, and real and worked just fine with it's style.  All the flashy jumping around, and twirling and oversized weapons are, to me, not what the game was about.

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He was talking about the engine. Not the graphics.

Im not super techie but Im pretty sure there is a difference.

Ones code and ones art style.

Originally posted by logangregor

 

 

He was talking about the engine. Not the graphics.

Im not super techie but Im pretty sure there is a difference.

Ones code and ones art style.

My bad, not very techie myself so I wasn't exactly sure what he was talking about.  It's just that I have fond memories of DAoC and would be reduced to tears if it started to look like Lineage 2.