Been wondering this a bit lately.

Do I want to get into beta for FFXIV, or wait for its full retail release.

Part of me says "Hell Yes", and the other part says "Hell No".

The "Hell Yes" side is because I'm really frigging eager to see this new game in action - also very eager to see what Shanree 3.0 will look like (I recreated Shanree in FFXI after the first one got deleted, so she's 2.0... yes I know, geeky). 

Edit: (reminded by one of the replies) Another reason is because I would like to be able to help SE in ironing out any bugs or glitches, to help the game launch "that much better". That's a great way to show support, in my opinion... and is, after all, what beta testing is for :-p.

The "Hell No" side is because I really want the game to be a completely brand-new experience from day 1 when it comes out. One thing I look back on fondly in FFXI was just getting started with the NA PC launch... No one knew anything, where anything was, how things worked (people trying to buy things with Beastman Seals, etc). We were all learning and helping each other out as we learned things, and it was great. I really think the strong community of FFXI started on day 1 because of that "shared newbness" we all experienced.

I really want to experience that again.

Thing is... I don't think it'll ever be like that in FFXIV... or in any new MMO, to be honest. MMOs are way more popular now than they were when XI came out and "Beta Testing" has become the time that many people rush to get in to learn everything about the game before it launches... all the fastest leveling spots, the best builds, etc. so they can race ahead of everyone else when the game goes live.

In the Aion beta I already see people referring to other players as "n00bs" for not "building their characters correctly" or "not playing the game right", or for - heaven forbid - asking a question. I already see people talking about what's the best gear to have, what's the fastest way to level, etc. etc. Elitism is already rearing its ugly head... and the game is still in *beta*. By the time the game comes out next month, I won't be surprised if people expect you to follow online guides and templates on "how to play the game correctly". 

And it's not just Aion... I see it in other MMOs as well. 

I guess I could just ignore all that and do my own thing... I just don't think that same sense of "everyone's starting from scratch" is going to be as prevalent in FFXIV as it was at FFXI's NA launch. Instead of people sharing info in shout as it was in FFXI, I wouldn't be surprised to see comments like "lrn2ply n00b, kthxbye" when someone asks a question. I'm half expecting to have people declaring the "right way" to play FFXIV soon after launch. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

Anyway, was curious about others' take on it?

Hell yes, simply because I would probably actually do some bug reporting for a game that I'm this interested in.

If you can take a dive into beta, you probably should.

I understand your argument, but my inner cynicism tells me that no matter what happens, there will be people calling others "n00bz" and telling them what they are supposed to do right at launch - MMO genre is not very new, and most games end up rather similar - if not nearly the same. There won't be as much "newness" once you start the game at launch.

And, in any case, you'd expect all sorts of guides and lists being available before the launch of the game, so all the people willing to "learn" will do it way ahead and contribute to the situation similar to one you've described.

I know if I was interested in another Final Fantasy MMO, I'd dive into beta just to see how it's turning out, but hey - it's just me.

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Hell yes, simply because I would probably actually do some bug reporting for a game that I'm this interested in.

Yeah.. that's actually something I forgot to mention in my "Hell Yes" portion lol. I should edit that in :-p.

Same... I would like to help SE iron out the bugs as much as possible. Outside of a subscription, I really think that's a big way to show your support of a new game... or even an existing one.

There is noob, then there is retard.

If the tell is hy i juz gut a kwes wher is mankirk wife at yo!... can you really resist replying, stfu noob?

If we wipe because the healer is trying to tank... do you really want to keep him in your group? Do you really think its worth your time to play with someone like that and even try to explain hes supposed to heal the tank?

If you bring a dps thatd do more dps by autoattacking than actually trying to use his skills, do you really want to waste an hour teling him to press 1,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,2,3,333333 and so on?

Noobs are ok, but some people just take stupidity to a whole new level.... so much for positive reinforcement parenting, look at what we're stuck to play with. LFGuild 20yo + w/ proof req. for Aion.

I'm just hoping people who play FFXI that move on will be willing to accept people who once played FFXI (i quit cuz i hated the controls and character movement, and wont play FFXIV if its still the same way)

PS: Those spies keep trying to backstab me! Can't a sniper be left alone to hit the headshot?

Originally posted by jackmcleod

 

PS: Those spies keep trying to backstab me! Can't a sniper be left alone to hit the headshot?

I agree with your statement on noobs vs. retards, I can put up with noobs who have a positive attitude and are willing to learn and ask questions.

I would much rather take some along with me like that than a retard.

PS: Equip a Razorback :P

Of course I would be interested in partaking in the FFXIV Beta.  I was a member of the FFXI community for almost 6 years, and loved every minute of it until I decided to move on.  I always take Betas with a grain of salt, accepting the game for its faults, and attempting to look at a game for the possibilities. 

People far too often look at games in their beta states and take them as the end-all be-all.  People saying the graphics blow, the game mechanics are broken, etc.  THey are only there in order to help the devs enhance the experience, yet they gripe.  I wish they only let a select few join the beta, and hopefully they choose some way to let the FFXI followers join first, because they will want what's best for the game.  Instead of the 13 year old kids who get on and think the graphics should look like they are Gears of War 2 quality during beta.  I wish the devs could somehow do background checks on the people they let in.  Possibly by using playonline ID's, etc.  We'll see, but yes I am expecting to fully partake in the beta, and give  as much feedback as possible.

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by jackmcleod

 

PS: Those spies keep trying to backstab me! Can't a sniper be left alone to hit the headshot?

 

I agree with your statement on noobs vs. retards, I can put up with noobs who have a positive attitude and are willing to learn and ask questions.

I would much rather take some along with me like that than a retard.

PS: Equip a Razorback :P

The only thing to add is that some people who get carried   "are good" have generalized the term noob to retard (we must now find a new way to say noob so the baddies "others" wont make noob sound bad

After getting ownd by the Razorback they take out their gun and HS you point blank afterwards... well good ones anyways.

Originally posted by Poonjabi

Of course I would be interested in partaking in the FFXIV Beta.  I was a member of the FFXI community for almost 6 years, and loved every minute of it until I decided to move on.  I always take Betas with a grain of salt, accepting the game for its faults, and attempting to look at a game for the possibilities. 

People far too often look at games in their beta states and take them as the end-all be-all.  People saying the graphics blow, the game mechanics are broken, etc.  THey are only there in order to help the devs enhance the experience, yet they gripe.  I wish they only let a select few join the beta, and hopefully they choose some way to let the FFXI followers join first, because they will want what's best for the game.  Instead of the 13 year old kids who get on and think the graphics should look like they are Gears of War 2 quality during beta.  I wish the devs could somehow do background checks on the people they let in.  Possibly by using playonline ID's, etc.  We'll see, but yes I am expecting to fully partake in the beta, and give  as much feedback as possible.

My thoughts on the beta are similar to Poonjabi. I would like to see the beta on my PS3 and help look at the game to see once and for all what direction SE is trying to go with the game (hardcore or casual, group or solo, that sort of thing).

Hopefully, that beta comes out on September.

I actually have a few questions I wished to throw out:

1. How long will this beta last? SE said that they wanted a longer beta than FF XI had (which was four months). So, if it came out in September, would it be accurate to guess that the beta version would carry on through 2010?

2. Will the beta version be free? An odd question to ask, but it is something I have wondered for quite a while.

Originally posted by jackmcleod

There is noob, then there is retard.

 

If the tell is hy i juz gut a kwes wher is mankirk wife at yo!... can you really resist replying, stfu noob?

Yes, I can. I put them on ignore.

If we wipe because the healer is trying to tank... do you really want to keep him in your group? Do you really think its worth your time to play with someone like that and even try to explain hes supposed to heal the tank?

If you bring a dps thatd do more dps by autoattacking than actually trying to use his skills, do you really want to waste an hour teling him to press 1,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,2,3,333333 and so on?

You're kinda going off-point here...

I'm talking about people - when a game is brand-new - being called "n00b" for asking *any* question at all. Such as, "where can I find a weapons shop in this area?" or "how do you do "xyz" and xyz isn't something a new player would necessarily know. Or not knowing what the best gear is at level 10 because they've barely even scratched the surface of the game yet.  When everyone's brand-new to the game, no one is in any position to be calling others "n00bs".  I'm talking about post-launch here... not months or years later.

Noobs are ok, but some people just take stupidity to a whole new level.... so much for positive reinforcement parenting, look at what we're stuck to play with. LFGuild 20yo + w/ proof req. for Aion.

and... you're kinda going off on a rant here...

Again, I'm talking about attitudes right after the launch of the game.  When FFXI first launched, people were cooperative and helpful as they could be... There was no such thing as a "dumb question" because everyone was still learning. With the way many people now look for any opportunity to bash another player - even when it's not warranted - I don't think we'll see that same spirit of cooperation and helpfulness in FFXIV. Again... I hope I'm wrong and the good community of FFXI carries over.

I'm just hoping people who play FFXI that move on will be willing to accept people who once played FFXI (i quit cuz i hated the controls and character movement, and wont play FFXIV if its still the same way)

Why would a former FFXI player not be "accepted"? Because you no longer play?

Frankly... and I say this as a long-time FFXI player... If I see anyone give another player crap, or cop an arrogant/elitist attitude in XIV because they play(ed) FFXI and feel that somehow makes them superior... I will personally tell them to shove it. I hope you or anyone else who should encounter someone like that would do the same. FFXIV will be a brand-new game to everyone when it comes out. Whether you played FFXI or not before is completely irrelevant, IMO.

 

Originally posted by Poonjabi

Of course I would be interested in partaking in the FFXIV Beta.  I was a member of the FFXI community for almost 6 years, and loved every minute of it until I decided to move on.  I always take Betas with a grain of salt, accepting the game for its faults, and attempting to look at a game for the possibilities. 

People far too often look at games in their beta states and take them as the end-all be-all.  People saying the graphics blow, the game mechanics are broken, etc.  THey are only there in order to help the devs enhance the experience, yet they gripe.  I wish they only let a select few join the beta, and hopefully they choose some way to let the FFXI followers join first, because they will want what's best for the game.  Instead of the 13 year old kids who get on and think the graphics should look like they are Gears of War 2 quality during beta.  I wish the devs could somehow do background checks on the people they let in.  Possibly by using playonline ID's, etc.  We'll see, but yes I am expecting to fully partake in the beta, and give  as much feedback as possible.

I agree with most of your post... I'm not quite with you on the bit in blue. 

People who've played a MMO's (or any game's) predecessor will often see things "tinged" by the experience of that previous game. AC1 players hated AC2 because they wanted it to be more like AC1. Many EQ1 players hate EQ2 becuase they want it to be more like EQ1.

I think existing FFXI players could do a lot of good in helping to let SE know if they succeeded in "carrying over the good parts of FFXI" or "fixing the not-so-good parts of FFXI" as SE has stated they intend to do with XIV. Someone who's never played FFXI wouldn't be able to provide that info, obviously. But, as with the AC1 and EQ1 examples, people used to FFXI could also tinge their responses in favor of it "being more like FFXI", which isn't necessarily good for the game.

However, a fresh set of eyes - people who  never played FFXI - would also be valuable because they would see the game without those "FFXI filters" on.

I think it would be great if they could somehow hold beta testers accountable - at least in closed beta. Basically... "okay, we're letting you play this game prior to launch, with the intention that you are going to help us test and improve it for launch. In turn, we are going to hold you to that by requiring that you submit X detailed bug reports at least "Y times" in a given day/week (whatever)". 

I also hope to see people *really* grilling SE on issues (whatever there may be) as they find them. One thing I see far too much with other MMOs is that there are fans of the game who feel that they're showing loyalty to the company by blowing smoke up their ass, praising the game, denying any issues that other testers find... claiming the game is fine as it is. If you want something to do well.. you *should* be critical. You *should* point out the flaws and say "Hey.. this is broken and it's going to negatively affect the game... It needs to be fixed". *That* is how you support a game you want to see be stable and do well.

It seems like common-sense to me, but so many don't seem to get that. If you have a child failing in school, in danger of being held back, and you want them to do better, are you going to say "Oh, those F's are fine.. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You're doing great! Keep it up!"? Of course not.

Beta testing *is* a privilege, and I do think too many people abuse it as a way to "play the game for free". And you're right, also, how people bash the game based on its beta state... complaining about bugs it has and deeming it a "failure"... yet never taking the time to report them so the devs can *fix* them.

Of course, to be fair, there are also the times where the bugs are reported and are ignored, making it to live... In that case.. well.. the testers did what they could. The failure is on the developer in that case.

But yeah.. overall, except that one bit in blue, I agree with you.

I too would definitely be interested in beta testing, but as it's already been pointed out, it's probably the best way to show your support and enthusiasm and not all fun and games. Sometimes beta testers are only given sections of the game to play at a time, so it would be a nice preview for the potential of what's to come. The game will undoubtedly undergo several improvements in the first stages before being watered down after so many years, but this has less to do with beta testing and more to do with user feedback.

It's not the beta testers job to contribute ideas for the game, saying "I think it should be like this instead of doing such & such" but rather to report actual problematic bugs and glitches that affect playability. So if you're looking for bragging rights or free play then look elsewhere. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to carry over your beta characters at launch, first of all, and second if you don't report actual bugs and just "blow smoke up their ass" or are too biased, you're likely to get ignored as a quality tester. Beta testers, like the bugs they report, are prioritized. That's why there are professionals. All these reasons are prime examples of why XI players should NOT necessarily be the requirement or first choice for testing.

Also with release deadlines and production limits, since game bugs are prioritized so some do slip through even at launch. Like I said before, no MMORPG is complete, let alone perfect, especially at launch. It's just a preview of its potential. I'd be happy to be a beta tester. And even when there is "no purchase necessary" knowing that I'll be playing this game anyway, I'd be paying the fees to play anyway. I kind of am, seeing as how my plane ticket and hotel reservations to attend TGS09 cost me a pretty penny. But even if it's a bust and I don't get my name on the list it'll be a fun first for me.

I'm gonna get into beta and go "pew pew" with ranged weapons and "hack hack" with melee weapons unless its a staff because then I will go "smack smack" it'll be awesome.

Anyway, I share the same thoughts, awesome to get into beta for an earlier look but at the same time I wouldnt mind just waiting for retail release and be a noob with everyone else ^^

WHO THE F**K ARE WE KIDDING?! I WANT TO PLAY IMMEDIATELY O.o

I plan on trying it I just hope it isn't like the one out now

 I'll definitely be trying to get in the beta, hopefully they will let preorders in the beta by default =D

Man I can't wait to get back on a Mage/Wizard type job FF style, I haven't played MMOs for the past 4 months because I am incredibly bored with all the ones out there =/ going to skip Aion and just wait it out for FFXIV^^

I'd certainly take the opportunity. I'm not a big fan of beta's because I think it ends up ruining the new game experience, and people just use them as a way to try the game before it's released, but for FF I would actually do as much bug reporting/feedback as I could.

I figure I will play this game for years, and that I would like to be a part of the community that helps iron it out for launch and maybe even help shape some aspects of the game that are still under an open design. 

I remember my first day in FFXI I was exploring and I met this guy named Blackheart who was in beta.  We formed a LS and began to grow based on his previous knowledge and experience.  He didn't spoil things, but it was a really cool experience and LS.  I hope to learn what I can and explore the systems, and at launch help people out because we can already tell it will be quite different than what is already out there and people will need some help and guidance.

Originally posted by Gameslave

I too would definitely be interested in beta testing, but as it's already been pointed out, it's probably the best way to show your support and enthusiasm and not all fun and games. Sometimes beta testers are only given sections of the game to play at a time, so it would be a nice preview for the potential of what's to come. The game will undoubtedly undergo several improvements in the first stages before being watered down after so many years, but this has less to do with beta testing and more to do with user feedback.

It's not the beta testers job to contribute ideas for the game, saying "I think it should be like this instead of doing such & such" but rather to report actual problematic bugs and glitches that affect playability. So if you're looking for bragging rights or free play then look elsewhere. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to carry over your beta characters at launch, first of all, and second if you don't report actual bugs and just "blow smoke up their ass" or are too biased, you're likely to get ignored as a quality tester. Beta testers, like the bugs they report, are prioritized. That's why there are professionals. All these reasons are prime examples of why XI players should NOT necessarily be the requirement or first choice for testing.

Well... there are some cases where the way a game system is setup can cause issues in the game.. they can be exploited or, perhaps conflict with another game system, or render it moot, etc. Those kinds of things should be reported in Beta so they can be addressed ASAP... even if it's after the game launches. 

But yes, the main focus of testing should be to help identify and iron out problems with the game... bugs and such.

Everyone wants to be ahead of the game, and ahead in game. Not everyone will be able to get into the beta program/stage, so if you have a chance...go for it.

Originally posted by anhhi

Everyone wants to be ahead of the game, and ahead in game. Not everyone will be able to get into the beta program/stage, so if you have a chance...go for it.

Not true. Not everyone wants to be ahead of and in the game. I don't and I know many others who don't.

Those who approach MMOs as "being competitive games" and need to be ahead of everyone else, or "first" in everything, certainly do. But those who just like to enjoy the journey dont' necessarily feel that way.