For me, the difference is that expansions are well-planned and I can budget accordingly for the one that comes out every 6 months to 2 years. Plus, I have confidence that the mmo will continue to exist because the company is generating revenue on a reliable schedule. Something many investors favor.

The "difference" is that even your question is a "lie" :)

that is because it is not a question you are trying to trick us into your personal opinion.

Neither are EXPANSIONS costly nor are MICROTRANSACTIONS (RMT) cheap!

This is the point.

Recomendation:

Talk to some of the guys here who spend more on "costly" RMT than every EXPANSION would be able to cost :)

Originally posted by Antipathy

Originally posted by Beatnik59

If the cost to produce a virtual item is negligable, economics dictates that the price of the item should be equally negligable. 

 

Economics says nothing of the sort. It doesn't remotely say that the cost of a product is related to the cost of production. Instead, economics relates to supply and demand. And this leads to the very heart of the argument.

Once they've stocked it in an item store, they have an unlimited supply.

Originally posted by Beatnik59

 

Once they've stocked it in an item store, they have an unlimited supply.

Someone should make a rule about the internet - anything that can be misunderstood - will be misunderstood.

What I mean is that they restrict the supply of desirable goods outside the RMT system, in order to encourage people to use RMT. For example, if xp was plentiful, not many people would buy xp boosts - so they put in tough xp grinds (restricting the supply of xp) in order to increase demand for xp, hence forcing people so spend money.

Originally posted by thanith

The "difference" is that even your question is a "lie" :)

that is because it is not a question you are trying to trick us into your personal opinion.

Neither are EXPANSIONS costly nor are MICROTRANSACTIONS (RMT) cheap!

This is the point.

Recomendation:

Talk to some of the guys here who spend more on "costly" RMT than every EXPANSION would be able to cost :)

 

 

 

.........the question is the entire source of this thread.

If I say the expansions in the question are costly, and the RMT is cheap, then the expansions are costly and RMT is cheap.

I am not asking "What is the difference between the average MMO expansion and the average MMO RMT shop?"

I specifically gave the example of what exactly the expansion and RMT shop has to offer, and exactly how much they cost.

=================================

If an expansion cost $60, and gives you

1) One new island.
2) 5 More Levels
3) 1 New Race
4) 1 New Class
5) 3 New Features
6) One special item

and RMT shop has these things for sale:

1) One new island. $20
2) 5 More Levels $20
3) 1 New Race $6
4) 1 New Class $6
5) 3 New Features $2 each
6) One special item $2
7) 2hours Double XP for $5

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

===============================

The problem with people in this thread is their inability to read and comprehend basic english.

The question isn't "What is the difference between WoW's two expansions and HERO Online's RMT shop?"

The question isn't "What is the difference between the average Everquest expansion, and the average Korean RMT?"

The question is what is the difference between a $40 expansions and $5 + $5 + $5 + $5 + $5 + $5 + $5 + $5 RMT shops that provide the same thing?

And you're wrong. Expansions ARE costly compared to RMT shops. $40-60 is significantly more than $1-10. In fact, at LEAST they're 4-6x more expensive, and at MOST 40-60x, if expansions cost that much- and RMT the same.

Also, you CANNOT compare buying $100 worth of double experience potions and costume parts, and an expansion. You have to compare an expansion and RMT that provides the same things. Try comparing DDO's RMT shop, it has MT's which are the exact same thing expansions give: Dungeons, Content, New Races, New Classes, etc.

The thing I hate the most about the internet is its lack of ability to read and comprehend basic ideas and questions.

HERE: Let me answer this SIMPLE question for all of you. There is only one correct answer:

What is the difference between costly EXPANSIONS and cheap RMT?

In essence, NOTHING!

Expansions are things you pay for IN ADDITION TO MONTHLY FEES that unlock dungeons, races, classes, and level cap. This is the exact same thing RMT can provide. The only difference is that RMT can provide even MORE, can provide usables (aesthetic or not), expansions ALWAYS unbalance the game while RMT's don't always have to, expansions are more expensive, expansions force you to pay for content you might not want, expansions are far more expensive, and RMT would be a better way to release expansions for customers, but not the business.

Sometimes people buy $40 expansions solely to get ONE race, or just to compete with everyone else and continue to play the game. In DDO, buying a new race, class, increasing level cap, or getting more content (dungeons) is significantly cheaper than $40, and you can pick and choose which things you do and don't want.

Choice DDO's RMT > Forced Expansions

Regardless of whether or not you have to pay a monthly fee.

Just remember: DDO's RMT doesn't mean DDO + RMT. It means exactly as it reads: DDO's RMT.

In essence, the entire OP question is RHETORICAL. Only someone who twists and turns the far extremes of expansions (like thinking "The expansion could be free!" and the far extreme of RMT "It could be $50 for a hat!" would be able to mess up this question.

From a cost standpoint, sure.  But there are by far more differences in application.  Course if you weren't opening up the topic for discussion, why did you post in a forum?

In any event, I appreciate that you like your justification for your viewpoint.  I just don't agree with it as applied in real scenarios in games that I am interested in.  The actual money cost may be all that concerns you, but it is far from what concerns me.

You are, of course, welcome to continue to debate that I am overlooking the original question, however, I am just as welcome to point out what I see as holes in the comparrison when my gameplay is concerned.  I cannot, after all, speak for anyone but me.

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

The original topic rather exhausted, I thought I'd change the title to what is currently the hot topic in this thread.

 

Is there a difference?

Aren't Expansions just expensive RMT's of the worst kind?

 

They cost a lot, often significantly more than the monthly fee.

They are practically FORCED! You can't reach max level without them. Can't get the faster mount. Can't get the newest PvP gear. Can't get the new Ability System. Can't use the new Item Slot. You're gimped without it! You're limited without it!

And the content? How many people actually reach max level? To all those with Alt-itus, those who slowly crawl to the next level, they never really reach max level. Yet to continue to PvP, or because the features are spread throughout levels, sometimes you are FORCED to buy an expansion which contents you will never see.

Or perhaps you don't care about content... but you REALLY want to be that new class or race! Well that's $$$$ just to unlock a class/race. Is this not the exact same as RMT?

You can only be level 60. You can't get any powerful, or go anywhere higher, until you pay $$$$$$$$$ to unlock the features.

There is a new class ability, and you have to pay $$$$$ to get it.

 

If an expansion cost $40, and all you get is a level cap increase of 60 to 70, and content for those 10 levels, a new class, and a new race, isn't that the exact same as an RMT where you can buy a potion that gives you +10 levels worth of stats, for $20, $10 to unlock the new class, and $10 to unlock the new race?

 

================================

If an expansion cost $60, and gives you

1) One new island.
2) 5 More Levels
3) 1 New Race
4) 1 New Class
5) 3 New Features
6) One special item

and RMT shop has these things for sale:

1) One new island. $20
2) 5 More Levels $20
3) 1 New Race $6
4) 1 New Class $6
5) 3 New Features $2 each
6) One special item $2
7) 2hours Double XP for $5

 

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

===============================

So what's so bad about RMT, if they already have EXPANSIONS? Aesthetic RMT? Non-Aesthetic RMT?

What gives?
Discuss.

Lets get back on subject and cut out the BIG LETTERS, because BIG LETTERS don't make points any more valid or sensible.

The core point that so many have made here is that MT sucks in a game when it destroys achievement. This has been said again again. Achievement is the key word.

If DDO is selling content that expects you to learn it and 'beat' it, then thats obviously fine. No argument. I personally put that into the meta game optional service bracket and nothing to do with the ruiniation of achievement based gaming. It has nothing to do with the vast majority of points being made here.

DDO's consumables are another point. Lets please stop pretending right now that the DDO shop, beyond offering content 'modules', is 'doing things right', when it is as bad as anything out there.

You cannot introduce healing pots, resist pots, buffs, hirelings, loot modifiers, spell pots, and rez cakes into a game as MT items and not expect it to change core play dynamics. I mean, look at this list;  

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=185996

Also, check out this guys post about what he got for 3300 points ($38.99), it was pretty shocking to me personally;

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=191595

So much for sale in DDO's shop is obviously aimed at the soloer which, in turn, of course leads to the classic cycle of less people forming groups, making it harder to get a group, so more people solo, which means less people form groups, making it harder to get a... and so on until you are looking at having to buy shop consumables to just even play the game. Alone. This is obviously not happened by accident.

So much for 'free'.

Back on track though, just to clarify, this is my perspective;

Meta game services (transfers, extra slots, etc) are fine. They do not effect achievement in game or upset any kind of balance.

Additional ingame zones that simply are new adventures to be played and 'beaten' are fine, in theory. I remember quite enjoying the early 'adventure packs' that SOE put out for EQ2 as additional content. They were fun (imo), challenging, and not overpowered items wise. As long as all the best items arnt stacked in these 'optional' MT zones and they arnt made super easy, then I have no issues with them.

Buying in game rewards, fluff or otherwise, is just weak as a gamer imo. It takes no knowledge, no skill, and no investment. I see you with a $10 cape on your character and I just think you are a fool, nothing else, even if I am wearing rags.

From the dev POV, it is a dishonest and insidious revenue model that exploits your addiction, epeen envy, laziness, and greed (from behind the scenes via game design without you being aware of it) to ensure that you spend more on the game then you would have via a sub. There is no other reason for the item mall model to even exist then to drip bleed more cash from you. This is why the 'F2P' companies love it so much-  they simply get more money out of you for the same (or less) work on their part.

The people actually defending mall selling in game items are really just defending the gradual transformation of real games into dumb virtual market spaces, with just the thin veneer of a ez mode game laid over the top to hook the gullible in. They have fallen for the sellers propaganda and hype, and that makes me more then a little sad.

On a related note, why it is that every game that isnt good enough to support a sub revenue model goes Item Mall these days? Is it just because the minority who do like the failed sub games will spend more in a mall then they would on a sub, making the game more profitable off a smaller player base? If so, by definition, MT must cost the individual more then a sub would right? Otherwise why bother changing from a sub model to a MT one?

Oh and btw Arch, your pricing of $60 for an expansion is blatantly ridiculous. If your gonna attempt to prove a point, at least base it on some kind of reality. Like I said before, looking at the real price of an expansion, your list of equivalent MT features starts to look really really expensive, even if the prices are just made up (and more then a little 'optimistic').

and before I go, telling people to 'discuss' your points in your first post, and then then claiming the question was 'rhetorical' in your last dosent make any sense at all.

Achivevements.

I call it "virtual power". Whatever we call it, its the same.

If people can buy it using real money legally from the game item mall, its wrong, globally, no exceptions.

Noone can make an argument against virtual power being bought with real money being acceptable. Thats imoral and in the future it will be against the law.

Any item that affects XP gain is not aesthetical. It doesnt matter if there is a level cap and bought eventually will reach it. Its a falacy. What matters is that there is a frame of time in wich there is a difference in virtual power caused by real money used in the cash shop.

I offen hear people saying "they dont have time", therefore "they cant compete".  They try to justify buying virtual power with real money. Its a falacy as well. Its a losing excuse like any other, and no excuses justify real money as a solution.

Another falacy, "Buying virtual power with real money through RMT is ok, because people can buy in the blackmarket as well".

In one, if people get caught, they are banned. In the other, nothing happens. in fact, in games where people can buy virtual power in cash shops, you notice wide game changes with the objective of forcing people to spend more money.

Falacy from the Developers after adding virtual power to the item malls/cash shops: "We have to pay the server costs".

Nothing justify such a change. Or they do it from the get go, informing everyone and people who play do it knowing how it works: "to compete I will have to spend real money, ok, I understand and accept it". Or they are breaking the goodwill of the contract, causing damage to the consumer, wich is not acceptable. If they do that, they have to indemnize, wich will hinder the ability to pay server costs even more.

Its part of the risk of the business principle that companies known from the start what are their servers costs and if they will be able to pay it under the rules of the contract. In this case, the contract say: WE WILL NOT HAVE IN OUR CASH SHOP ANY ITEM THAT AFFECTS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY THE VIRTUAL POWER OF CHARACTERS SINCE WE ARE ONLY OFFERING AESTHETIC/COSMETHICAL ITEMS.

Once defined, it cant be changed, neither justified. And if changed, they can be sued for it.

Stating your Prejudice against "Pay to win" RMT models is one of the ways to educate and evolve the communitys of mmo player, it is one of the ways to force changes.

If we started labeling such rmt models and filtering them on the big communities along with all the following prejudice, soon enough game companies would stop this ridiculous way of forcing people into giving them money.

I propose this:

Subscription, pay per month

Free to play, pay to win

Free to play, aesthetical items

Add "pay to win" to all MMOs that have any item that affects virtual power, directly or indirectly. And soon companies would start making changes just so they would be one of the "aestheticla items" free to play games, just so they can enjoy the fairness reputation it comes with and the popularity, because people would certainly start considering if they want to play "pay to win" or "aesthetical items" free to play games.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by Bagguns

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

I'd like to challenge anyone.

 

What is the difference between

 

1) Full Expansions, Small Expansions (Cheaper, large packages of content like EQ2, basically Expansions in installments)

2) RMT

Almost always, if you don't purchase #1, you are gimped. You can't reach max level, you can't get the best gear, you can't be the new overpowered class/race, you can't do this, can't do that. Almost ALWAYS- without the expansion, you can't compete with those who have it. These are EXPENSIVE too, sometimes 2-4 times the monthly fee.

The difference is what? One is at EB GAMES and Direct2Drive, while the other is on a website in the In-Game Browser?

 

Are expansions not incredibly expensive, game unbalancing, competition destroying, RMT?

 

All I have to say is LOL.

How do expansions unbalance a game?

If I refused to buy WoW WotLK do you think I would be able to remain competitive in open PvP? No. Of course not. The entire balance of the game would have changed.

If you refused to buy the expansion, then you probably don't like the game (meaning you shouldn't play it).

If you enjoy playing the game then you would have no problem buying the expansion.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

The original topic rather exhausted, I thought I'd change the title to what is currently the hot topic in this thread.

 

Is there a difference?

Aren't Expansions just expensive RMT's of the worst kind?

 

They cost a lot, often significantly more than the monthly fee.

They are practically FORCED! You can't reach max level without them. Can't get the faster mount. Can't get the newest PvP gear. Can't get the new Ability System. Can't use the new Item Slot. You're gimped without it! You're limited without it!

And the content? How many people actually reach max level? To all those with Alt-itus, those who slowly crawl to the next level, they never really reach max level. Yet to continue to PvP, or because the features are spread throughout levels, sometimes you are FORCED to buy an expansion which contents you will never see.

Or perhaps you don't care about content... but you REALLY want to be that new class or race! Well that's $$$$ just to unlock a class/race. Is this not the exact same as RMT?

You can only be level 60. You can't get any powerful, or go anywhere higher, until you pay $$$$$$$$$ to unlock the features.

There is a new class ability, and you have to pay $$$$$ to get it.

 

If an expansion cost $40, and all you get is a level cap increase of 60 to 70, and content for those 10 levels, a new class, and a new race, isn't that the exact same as an RMT where you can buy a potion that gives you +10 levels worth of stats, for $20, $10 to unlock the new class, and $10 to unlock the new race?

 

================================

If an expansion cost $60, and gives you

1) One new island.
2) 5 More Levels
3) 1 New Race
4) 1 New Class
5) 3 New Features
6) One special item

and RMT shop has these things for sale:

1) One new island. $20
2) 5 More Levels $20
3) 1 New Race $6
4) 1 New Class $6
5) 3 New Features $2 each
6) One special item $2
7) 2hours Double XP for $5

 

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

===============================

So what's so bad about RMT, if they already have EXPANSIONS? Aesthetic RMT? Non-Aesthetic RMT?

What gives?
Discuss.

 

Lets get back on subject and cut out the BIG LETTERS, because BIG LETTERS don't make points any more valid or sensible.

The core point that so many have made here is that MT sucks in a game when it destroys achievement. This has been said again again. Achievement is the key word.

If DDO is selling content that expects you to learn it and 'beat' it, then thats obviously fine. No argument. I personally put that into the meta game optional service bracket and nothing to do with the ruiniation of achievement based gaming. It has nothing to do with the vast majority of points being made here.

DDO's consumables are another point. Lets please stop pretending right now that the DDO shop, beyond offering content 'modules', is 'doing things right', when it is as bad as anything out there.

You cannot introduce healing pots, resist pots, buffs, hirelings, loot modifiers, spell pots, and rez cakes into a game as MT items and not expect it to change core play dynamics. I mean, look at this list;  

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=185996

Also, check out this guys post about what he got for 3300 points ($38.99), it was pretty shocking to me personally;

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=191595

So much for sale in DDO's shop is obviously aimed at the soloer which, in turn, of course leads to the classic cycle of less people forming groups, making it harder to get a group, so more people solo, which means less people form groups, making it harder to get a... and so on until you are looking at having to buy shop consumables to just even play the game. Alone. This is obviously not happened by accident.

So much for 'free'.

Back on track though, just to clarify, this is my perspective;

Meta game services (transfers, extra slots, etc) are fine. They do not effect achievement in game or upset any kind of balance.

Additional ingame zones that simply are new adventures to be played and 'beaten' are fine, in theory. I remember quite enjoying the early 'adventure packs' that SOE put out for EQ2 as additional content. They were fun (imo), challenging, and not overpowered items wise. As long as all the best items arnt stacked in these 'optional' MT zones and they arnt made super easy, then I have no issues with them.

Buying in game rewards, fluff or otherwise, is just weak as a gamer imo. It takes no knowledge, no skill, and no investment. I see you with a $10 cape on your character and I just think you are a fool, nothing else, even if I am wearing rags.

From the dev POV, it is a dishonest and insidious revenue model that exploits your addiction, epeen envy, laziness, and greed (from behind the scenes via game design without you being aware of it) to ensure that you spend more on the game then you would have via a sub. There is no other reason for the item mall model to even exist then to drip bleed more cash from you. This is why the 'F2P' companies love it so much-  they simply get more money out of you for the same (or less) work on their part.

The people actually defending mall selling in game items are really just defending the gradual transformation of real games into dumb virtual market spaces, with just the thin veneer of a ez mode game laid over the top to hook the gullible in. They have fallen for the sellers propaganda and hype, and that makes me more then a little sad.

On a related note, why it is that every game that isnt good enough to support a sub revenue model goes Item Mall these days? Is it just because the minority who do like the failed sub games will spend more in a mall then they would on a sub, making the game more profitable off a smaller player base? If so, by definition, MT must cost the individual more then a sub would right? Otherwise why bother changing from a sub model to a MT one?

Oh and btw Arch, your pricing of $60 for an expansion is blatantly ridiculous. If your gonna attempt to prove a point, at least base it on some kind of reality. Like I said before, looking at the real price of an expansion, your list of equivalent MT features starts to look really really expensive, even if the prices are just made up (and more then a little 'optimistic').

 

Btw Arch, telling people to 'discuss' your points in your first post, and then then claiming the question was 'rhetorical' in your last dosent make any sense at all.

That is a slap in the face right there.

I agree with vesavius, don't change what your saying Arch.

Only in a MMO could a gaming company expect players to pay micro transactions for what is effectively a cheat code. In solo games you can get health boosts, extra armour and the like as a cheat code (which are built in by the programmers). In MMO’s they expect you to pay for this.

If we were expected to pay more to unlock cheat codes in solo games there would be uproar. It is happening in MMO’s and player’s line up to defend it, do MMO’s breed naivete or something?

Originally posted by Scot

Only in a MMO could a gaming company expect players to pay micro transactions for what is effectively a cheat code. In solo games you can get health boosts, extra armour and the like as a cheat code (which are built in by the programmers). In MMO’s they expect you to pay for this.

If we were expected to pay more to unlock cheat codes in solo games there would be uproar. It is happening in MMO’s and player’s line up to defend it, do MMO’s breed naivete or something?

Very true!  And from my experience, as soon as I start messin with cheats in single player games, they lose all appeal to me, because they throw the sense of accomplishment right out the window.

Originally posted by Suvako

Originally posted by Scot

Only in a MMO could a gaming company expect players to pay micro transactions for what is effectively a cheat code. In solo games you can get health boosts, extra armour and the like as a cheat code (which are built in by the programmers). In MMO’s they expect you to pay for this.

If we were expected to pay more to unlock cheat codes in solo games there would be uproar. It is happening in MMO’s and player’s line up to defend it, do MMO’s breed naivete or something?

 

Very true!  And from my experience, as soon as I start messin with cheats in single player games, they lose all appeal to me, because they throw the sense of accomplishment right out the window.

A little off topic here, from me. I can't remember which game it was but it was an FPS war game. I wanted to use a cheat code because I pretty much suck at FPS games. Well, this game didn't have any and I was like "Fuck that, I'm not playing this damn game." Well after sometime had gone by I decided "What the hell I'll give it a try." It was probably the most fun I had in an FPS and it was all because I couldn't cheat. I didn't realize how much I had ruined the other FPS games I had played because I had used cheat codes to get through. When I got to the end of that war campaign I felt like I had actually lived through it and felt glad to have done it with no cheats. What an awesome feeling that was.

On topic, that's what RMT does. It takes away from the feeling of accomplishment for that certain item you wanted. When you finally get it, what a great feeling. If you can just buy it, why play for it?

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

The original topic rather exhausted, I thought I'd change the title to what is currently the hot topic in this thread.

Is there a difference?

Aren't Expansions just expensive RMT's of the worst kind?

They cost a lot, often significantly more than the monthly fee.

They are practically FORCED! You can't reach max level without them. Can't get the faster mount. Can't get the newest PvP gear. Can't get the new Ability System. Can't use the new Item Slot. You're gimped without it! You're limited without it!

And the content? How many people actually reach max level? To all those with Alt-itus, those who slowly crawl to the next level, they never really reach max level. Yet to continue to PvP, or because the features are spread throughout levels, sometimes you are FORCED to buy an expansion which contents you will never see.

Or perhaps you don't care about content... but you REALLY want to be that new class or race! Well that's $$$$ just to unlock a class/race. Is this not the exact same as RMT?

You can only be level 60. You can't get any powerful, or go anywhere higher, until you pay $$$$$$$$$ to unlock the features.

There is a new class ability, and you have to pay $$$$$ to get it.

If an expansion cost $40, and all you get is a level cap increase of 60 to 70, and content for those 10 levels, a new class, and a new race, isn't that the exact same as an RMT where you can buy a potion that gives you +10 levels worth of stats, for $20, $10 to unlock the new class, and $10 to unlock the new race?

As a Guildwars player I can answer that.

First in GW you don't need any expansion. It is some small advantages with owning them all since there is some gear, heroes and skills you get from the expansions. However can you both PvE and PvP well without them

You don't have to have the expansion, I just bought mines because I kinda had run out of things to do and wanted to support a great game. I have totally payed something like $90 for GW.

In a RMT game you need to buy equipment or spend ages farming it, otherwise your PvP will suck and your endgame gear wont be good enough. Someone conted 200-300 bucks for the gear in ROM, a lot more cash which you get a lot less for.

The +10 levels expansion however doesn't exist in GW and that is good, those things are slowly killing the game in the long run. After a while only the 10 last levels matter, the rest is just a tutorial which take a long time to complete.

Having both monthly fees and paid for expansions however is kinda high way robbery. You would have thought that 10 or 15 bucks a month should be enough to pay for extra content also, if it can't they should raise the fee a buck or 2 instead. Same things go for monthly fees and RMT.

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

Originally posted by thanith

The "difference" is that even your question is a "lie" :)

that is because it is not a question you are trying to trick us into your personal opinion.

Neither are EXPANSIONS costly nor are MICROTRANSACTIONS (RMT) cheap!

This is the point.

Recomendation:

Talk to some of the guys here who spend more on "costly" RMT than every EXPANSION would be able to cost :)

 

 

 

 

.........the question is the entire source of this thread.

 

If I say the expansions in the question are costly, and the RMT is cheap, then the expansions are costly and RMT is cheap.

I am not asking "What is the difference between the average MMO expansion and the average MMO RMT shop?"

I specifically gave the example of what exactly the expansion and RMT shop has to offer, and exactly how much they cost.

=================================

If an expansion cost $60, and gives you

1) One new island.
2) 5 More Levels
3) 1 New Race
4) 1 New Class
5) 3 New Features
6) One special item

and RMT shop has these things for sale:

1) One new island. $20
2) 5 More Levels $20
3) 1 New Race $6
4) 1 New Class $6
5) 3 New Features $2 each
6) One special item $2
7) 2hours Double XP for $5

 

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

===============================

 

The problem with people in this thread is their inability to read and comprehend basic english.

 

You are purposefully trying to confuse RMT with expansions and they are not the same thing.

In your "RMT" examples I have highlighted in orange the items that are typically associated with RMT.   The other items are what is typically called a digital download. 

You are comparing a company selling and expansion as a whole product versus them selling it in pieces and trying to tuck a few RMT examples in there in a weak attempt to justify your stance. Honestly according to your twisting of the meanings anyone who buys the original game box is engaging in microtransactions right?  They are spending money on content and that is what you are trying to twist into RMT for sake of your flawed theory. 

In case you missed what was said above.  Please read and comprehend the following. 

**Originally posted by Ihmotepp**

Expansion = pay for more content to do.

RMT = pay to skip content.
 

Can you see the difference now?  Don't get angry when no one is agreeing with you.  The question that is the source of this thread you actually ninja edited after people tore you up.  Perhaps you should go back and actually read the thread to see what it discusses instead of working so hard to be right.  You might just learn something.

How come it works so well for World Of Warcraft? Monthly Sub, and than a "Shop" To change how you look, your name, your server, soon your faction.  And you think blizzard, being smart and sly enough to do as they do, are not going to do even more things.  Remember, faction changing was never allowed. Nor was having opposite faction on the same pvp server.  Oh, both changed.

Soon, they will offer race changes, and after that, class changes.

But no no, this is WoW, it does not have a store. Obviously since the game is so hated, and has so few people playing, it proves a MT/Monthly thing does not work one bit.  It also proves that games will never move in that direction either.

They way they handle it, similar to Guild Wars, is a store.  It's just funny how people yell, scream, nerdrage, or what have you whenever MT/RMT/IM/IGM or any other name you could give it is mentioned.  It is not EXACTLY the same for different games, but it is still the same theme.  Just it's okay for wow to do it, and that game is okay, but any other game /bad game!

Originally posted by Swanea

How come it works so well for World Of Warcraft? Monthly Sub, and than a "Shop" To change how you look, your name, your server, soon your faction.  And you think blizzard, being smart and sly enough to do as they do, are not going to do even more things.  Remember, faction changing was never allowed. Nor was having opposite faction on the same pvp server.  Oh, both changed.

Soon, they will offer race changes, and after that, class changes.

 

But no no, this is WoW, it does not have a store. Obviously since the game is so hated, and has so few people playing, it proves a MT/Monthly thing does not work one bit.  It also proves that games will never move in that direction either.

They way they handle it, similar to Guild Wars, is a store.  It's just funny how people yell, scream, nerdrage, or what have you whenever MT/RMT/IM/IGM or any other name you could give it is mentioned.  It is not EXACTLY the same for different games, but it is still the same theme.  Just it's okay for wow to do it, and that game is okay, but any other game /bad game!

  Bit of a difference IMO in offering in game items and offering an apearance change, server change or class change. The only similarity is the additional income that a company makes off either service. Offering a convienent service for people who do not like their initial apearance choice or would like to change faction/server to play with friends is a HUGE difference IMO from offering in game items or content for those too lazy or too time strapped to attain it in game. Money should never be a factor for someone to attain the exact same things other players have in game (asthetic or non asthetic items).

 All that said, I am not one to go off and complain about it, If that is there model, I just won't play, If a game I currently play tries to adapt that payment scheme, I will also quit. I realize that different payment models apeal to different people, so no biggie. Ill just stick to pay per month games.

Originally posted by Swanea

How come it works so well for World Of Warcraft? Monthly Sub, and than a "Shop" To change how you look, your name, your server, soon your faction.  And you think blizzard, being smart and sly enough to do as they do, are not going to do even more things.  Remember, faction changing was never allowed. Nor was having opposite faction on the same pvp server.  Oh, both changed.

Soon, they will offer race changes, and after that, class changes.

 

But no no, this is WoW, it does not have a store. Obviously since the game is so hated, and has so few people playing, it proves a MT/Monthly thing does not work one bit.  It also proves that games will never move in that direction either.

They way they handle it, similar to Guild Wars, is a store.  It's just funny how people yell, scream, nerdrage, or what have you whenever MT/RMT/IM/IGM or any other name you could give it is mentioned.  It is not EXACTLY the same for different games, but it is still the same theme.  Just it's okay for wow to do it, and that game is okay, but any other game /bad game!

I disagree with you.

What WoW does is not the same as rmt in other games.  You can pay to change your server or recustomize your character (you get the same options as everyone has when creating there character).  Or you can change your name.   You can not pay for anything that makes your character any more unique than eveyone else.

And I will quit playing WoW if they ever offer class changes.

Originally posted by Bagguns

You can not pay for anything that makes your character any more unique than eveyone else.

Bull. I spent about $100 on the TCG, got all my UDE points, and spent them on a tabbard that made me quite unique. In fact I only ever saw one other player wearing one during all the years I played the game. There wasn't even any luck in it because the UDE points have a fixed value per booster. It was a direct "Cash Dollar" to "Unique Game Item" relationship.

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by ArchAngel102

There is no legitimate reason for people to hate Microtransactions, as long as they aren't forced, don't unbalance competition (which in Champions Online is PvP, as there is no challenge in PvE).

I believe the majority are under some delusion that Microtransactions will steal their money, cause their opponents to have unfair advantages, etc..

If the MT's are just costume pieces, easier traveling, and XP boosts, there is absolutely no reason to get upset. You can simply never spend a dime over the monthly fee, and that guy you fight in PvP who leveled to your level in 1/2 the time or who has a shinier cape will have no more advantage over you than anyone else. Level bracket PvP doesn't work that way, you're not in direct competition with people in PvE, and costumes don't give damage boosts.

No reason to whine.
No reason to hate.
And absolutely NO REASON to abandon a game because of it.

In fact... you might just BENEFIT from MT's, having more and better updates.

All hate for something that doesn't change the balance of PvP is completely illogical and without valid reason. It's as ignorant and unreasonable as the hate mobs that drive to other states to boycott Health Care Reform Town Halls. Those that hate aesthetic MT's are the rednecks of the internet.

 

The rude tone of your OP aside, Pay to Achieve gaming is just weak, no matter if the the purchased rewards have stats or not.

My personal views on how ingame MT of any kind destroys the very fabric of what makes a game a game (turning it into just another virtual environment to spend money in) aside, I have no idea why people gain any satisfaction at all from buying virtual baubles in a virtual environment with RL money... It's just really confusing to me. Why do you WANT to spend money on content in a game when the game really should be fun enough to make you want to play through it in order to earn it?

I simply don't get the thrill of spending cash on a new cloak (or whatever) in CO knowing that I could have actually enjoyed playing the game to win it.

 

I'm sorry, I apologize for the rude tone.

It's kindof hard not to be rude on the internet. I know it's counter-productive to conversation to start out rude, but it does filter out the people who are so insecure or sensitive that they can't handle a debate without emotions being involved or thinking every negative word is directed straight at them.

Statement Reads: Hatred as an emotion is Childish.
They Read: Disliking MT's makes YOU a child.

"OMG, I DISLIKE MT'S, SO I'm A CHILD!?!? GRRRRGHRR!!!"

Always failing to realize it's not MT's, but the bad attitude, and it's not you, but the extremists, who are CHILDISH, not a child.

Maybe I should write in a foreign language.

Hatred for = "If you disagree,"
Aethetic MT's = YOU!
"is Childish" = "are a CHILD!"

But expecting people to read on the INTERNET is the first sign of Insanity.

 

How about expecting people to actually answer the question I asked them? ;)

edit to highlight the question for clarity :P

 

Sry, Ididn't even read all of that. I must've got distracted IRL at the very end, and thought I finished. Common mistake, didn't mean the disrespect.

It's cool, no offense taken.

...That is only one small explanation of why I'd rather spend $1 IRL cash instead of 4 hours of boring grinding.

I get what you are saying, but my advice would be to probably find a game that you don't find boring, rather then let these people drip bleed revenue out of your dislike of the game mechanics they have put into the game that they have sold you.

By supporting MT in the way that you see it  you open the door for them to make fluff items deliberatly labourious to get in order to encourage you to spend extra RL money in their shop. This already happens in many F2P games and has a huge impact right across the game, making it extra boring for those that choose to NOT buy into the mall.

of course, these people either crack in the end and buy from the mall or quit. Usually the game is designed that you are very invested in it before they hit you like this, so the mall is often to forced choice.

I never understand people who grind what they find boring and "hard work" for 8 hours in an MMO to get that "new loot"

because we find the actual playing of the game fun. We enjoy hanging out with friends, experiencing new stories, and beating the challenge. Winning loot at the end is the final joy. The journey is the point, not the loot at the end.

I have never found an mmo hard work, ever, and I'm an original EQer. If I did I would just log off.

 

 

Well that is a very good reason why to boycott MT's in many games.

But I don't believe some games like Champions Online, CoX, or EQ2's mini-expansions (i dont know about its RMT, thats new) or UO's "Advanced Character" are going to change the market to that extreme, so I wouldn't boycott it.

I guess it really depends on the company. If I don't trust them because they are OBVIOUSLY exploitatuve, shady, and greedy, I will boycott ANY form of MT. If I trust them, I dont see the problem. Not every company wants to screw the consumers. Some see that as bad for business.

Also, I'd NEVER buy from Korean RMT games. Their prices and items are ridiculous. $10 for a ninja mask, or $5 for a hat that only lasts for 2 weeks? No thanks!

But the North American RMT's seem perfectly fine for me, except expansions. I will never spent any money on a game that I already pay $15 for, but I dont care if the RMT's exist for people who want to. And if something is REALLY cool, I'd buy it. Maybe. I actually dislike the expensive cost of most expansions, and the fact I am FORCED into buying them. Large amounts of money is different from $1 here or there.

As a player who rarely reaches max level, expansions are awful. Often they have VERY needed features for all levels, but the majority of the content is something I will never experience, so I am essentially paying $20-60 for just one or two minor, but important features to unlock. It can cost as much as $20 just to be able to play as a Blood Elf, and nothing else.

Asian RMTs didn't start off like that, it used to be just aesthetics then, it moved onto power items(xp boost, +dmg , +movespeed)

And it slowly progressed to what you see now, the 2week- 1 month prem items. I would have to agree with everyone on the whole slippery slope idea. Western MMOs are seeing that its more lucrative to go with this payment option and are slowly inching us in to that plan.