for the past few years we have heard the term wowkiller .theres been various contenders for the title which have so far failed to be anything more than niche games (  thats not to say they are bad i m playing both age of conan and lord of the rings online atm ) .At  a time when WoW subs are proberbly on the decline ( beyond the situation in China) Aion looks like it could be the first game since the release of wow that could appeal to a mass market and for once its not something thats easy to write off ( insptie of what wow fanboys say about asian grinders etc etc ) but how many subs does it have to steal from WoW to be considered a WoW killer . If we are waiting for a game to take wow offline we ll be waiting another 10 -20 years . lets face it ultima is still about .

Originally posted by arthen999

for the past few years we have heard the term wowkiller .theres been various contenders for the title which have so far failed to be anything more than niche games (  thats not to say they are bad i m playing both age of conan and lord of the rings online atm ) .At  a time when WoW subs are proberbly on the decline ( beyond the situation in China) Aion looks like it could be the first game since the release of wow that could appeal to a mass market and for once its not something thats easy to write off ( insptie of what wow fanboys say about asian grinders etc etc ) but how many subs does it have to steal from WoW to be considered a WoW killer . If we are waiting for a game to take wow offline we ll be waiting another 10 -20 years . lets face it ultima is still about .

ActBlizz's new MMORPG they're working on? I believe almost all the good devs WoW ever had are working on the new MMORPG.

A game becomes a WoW killer at exactly... never.

That won't stop people from using the phrase for every third MMO that goes into production.

I'm going to guess that no game ever kills WoW. Time will kill WoW as smaller games chip away at it. Some game someday may be as popular, or even more popular, but I doubt it happens in WoW's natural lifespan.

i don't think any MMO has ever killed any other MMO,  they tend to die on their own.  people need to stop saying wowkiller, nothing will kill wow, and i don't think WoW killed any other MMO.

Aion supporter/WoW troll starts another "Aion vs WoW" topic?

Now Ive seen everything.

on topic - an MMO would have to supplant WoW as the dominant MMO in the genre. Which means Aion(and lets face it you're talking about Aion) would have to gain 10 million subscribers or WoW would have to lose subscribers and go below the number of subscribers that Aion has.

Seriously, both of those scenarios are about as likely as Aion forcing WoW to close down.

However, even if that were to happen it would most likely only give Aion a press release talking point, nothing more. If you had actually read my posts about financials instead of going on about subscription numbers this and subscription numbers that you have seen that subscribers is becoming a meaningless number.

Really, so what if you have 10 million subscribers in China if you dont make any money from them. When WoW China was in full swing Asia accounted for about 10% of WoW revenue even though it was more than 50% of the subscribers.

When another game gets 10 million subs, it can be called the "WOW Killer".

Hint: Aion won't be that, for sure.

When developers stop focusing on trying to kill WoW and focus on trying to put a out something that's actually worth playing. And they need to try an move away from this niche' bullshit. Niche titles will never see the success of WoW, why because they only cater to one group of players. Where WoW hit the nail on the head is where they have been able to cater to all types of gamers.

When does a game become a wow killer.  In my opinion that happens when one game gains so many subs that people stop comparing everything to wow.  It would have to make wow not the measuring stick everything in the market is compared to.  Maybe by getting 50 million subs and making wow look small in comparison, or stealing so many subs from wow that wow closes many servers and fall seriously behind the new game in subs.  Again with the same result of there being a new 800 lb gorilla in the mmo genre.

However that doesn't really solve the problem current mmos are facing.  It just changes the topic line of every other thread from "what is going to be the wowkill" to "What is going to finally be the Aionkiller".

Hopefully wow dies slowly after many companies all release multiple good games that steadily even out the market into something more competitive.  After nearly 5 years and countless first hand accounts of people who said wow killers this, wow killer that, I'm not buying the hype anymore.  I even though warhammer was going to be a real contender.... even after the game released. 

6 months after a game releases will be a decent indication of a games effect on the market.  Everything before that is just to volitile to prove a game is going to be massively successful. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

When does a game become a wow killer.  In my opinion that happens when one game gains so many subs that people stop comparing everything to wow.  It would have to make wow not the measuring stick everything in the market is compared to.  Maybe by getting 50 million subs and making wow look small in comparison, or stealing so many subs from wow that wow closes many servers and fall seriously behind the new game in subs.  Again with the same result of there being a new 800 lb gorilla in the mmo genre.

 

However that doesn't really solve the problem current mmos are facing.  It just changes the topic line of every other thread from "what is going to be the wowkill" to "What is going to finally be the Aionkiller".

 

Hopefully wow dies slowly after many companies all release multiple good games that steadily even out the market into something more competitive.  After nearly 5 years and countless first hand accounts of people who said wow killers this, wow killer that, I'm not buying the hype anymore.  I even though warhammer was going to be a real contender.... even after the game released. 

6 months after a game releases will be a decent indication of a games effect on the market.  Everything before that is just to volitile to prove a game is going to be massively successful. 

Agreed with the first half...as far as the "Hopefully."  I play wow....sort of enjoy it....I don't know what it is that keeps me from leaving, it's not friends that play wow as many have previously suggested as a reason people continue to play wow, since my guild has nearly imploded upon itself.  It has more to do with the fluidness (yes spell check, I know that's not a word) of combat.  I played wow, and actually enjoyed the PvP more than WoW's., however it always felt like I was on some damn "internal" cooldown.  Unlike wow (but I don't want to get into cooldowns per'se).  As I have felt with every game, other than the beta of Champions, which I am unsure of for other reasons)  combat on other MMO's just seems "meh."  I really enjoy the combat of both WOW and Champions, but I don't think the combat is enough for me to liek CO or the customization.  I can deal with crapy customization if there is something fun to do when one reaches the level cap, and maybe CO does have and maybe it doesn't, I DON"T KNOW)  I know it has some different things, I just don't know if it's interesting.  I do know that WoW has really nice animations and animations that actually freaking connect to actions in the game, and that is what I am looking for.  

Edit:  Well hell, I hit enter and it didn't change lines, but it posted instead.  I enjoy WoW for the "fluidness" if nothing else.  There's nothing else that has come close that I have played (WAR, LOTR) until CO and it is nice as far as I'm concerned, I play a lot though and am concerned that it may not keep me interested once I'm 40 (which I haven't gotten a toon to in CO)

Wow...all that to essentially say I'm in CO BETA and enjoy the leveling...didn't realize just how much I've been drinking....I still enjoy WOW and don't want anything I've said to be interpreted as otherwise, I just think CO is the first to even come close to the feel of combat.  (please don't attack me as a WOW hater Zorndorf, you tend to do that).

Originally posted by Zorndorf

There won't be a Wow killer in the fantasy mmorpg world.

In a market where one player has 60%, you can't win that race with exactly the same ingredients, because in the end you just reinforce the market positions.

If that is so EQ1 would still be biggest, you always seem to forget that Blizzard stole about everything you see in wow even the IP is blandly copied from Warhammer tabletop

What are the ingredients to avoid: fantasy, level based, quests/experience gains, gear , long Raid content and PvP.

Only at THAT time, people will stop to compare it with WOW.

IF that was the case wow wudnt have reached number 1 according by your own formula

The moment a new game launches into this bracket, you have a FULL blown WOW campaign IN and OUT of the new game for the 800 lbs gorilla.

Same as the other 2 points above

FANS of the new game THINK they can promote the new kid by promoting it in one sentence with Wow , but the problem is you just reinforce the interest of Wow.

I never use a new game in the same sentence as wow.

Only by publishing something completely different could there be a game with subscription wise million of players who are NOT reminded of WOW.

Same as the points above

---------Lessons learned -----------

- Bored Wow players are MUCH faster bored with the copies.

People do get an mmo burnout true

- All new games had LESS playing options than already present in WOW (be it PvP, PVE, Raid, personaly flying mounts, seamless world etc...)

Wow didnt have all the options present at release either

- The only 2 games above the 250K long term players markets are EVE (NOT a Wow copy) and GW (using a different model as a subs based game).

You are forgetting a few, that you cant see them oin your precious xfire stats dusnt mean they are not there, half the world dusnt use xfire

- Most people like to play ... what their friends play. Discuss tactics in RL, classes in RL, adventures in RL, have a Wow talk with a pint and their friends.

That can also work for other games,

----> So you have to breach that pattern to have a WOW killer

 

----Question to the OP ----

And to the OP: WOW ACHIEVED this status by being the BEST selling PC game of 2004 ..., 2005, ... 2006, ... 2007, ... 2008, and yes the first half of 2009.

Calculating that every expansion of Blizzard automatically sells into millions of copies (no matter what), how long will YOU think it will take to see a changing number one on www.xfie.com
 

And now have a look at http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

Really you should click on it and explain WOW growth these days. As Xfire ALWAYS in the past shows the trends MONTHS in advance.

 

Again i told you before i miss the millions of Asian players that enjoy Aion, but cant see that in Xfire

Lineage is also played way way more then xfire tells you

You like to use global sub figures for wow and global market shares then also use accurate global figures

 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

There won't be a Wow killer in the fantasy mmorpg world.

In a market where one player has 60%, you can't win that race with exactly the same ingredients, because in the end you just reinforce the market positions.

What are the ingredients to avoid: fantasy, level based, quests/experience gains, gear , long Raid content and PvP.

Only at THAT time, people will stop to compare it with WOW.

The moment a new game launches into this bracket, you have a FULL blown WOW campaign IN and OUT of the new game for the 800 lbs gorilla.

FANS of the new game THINK they can promote the new kid by promoting it in one sentence with Wow , but the problem is you just reinforce the interest of Wow.

Only by publishing something completely different could there be a game with subscription wise million of players who are NOT reminded of WOW.

---------Lessons learned -----------

- Bored Wow players are MUCH faster bored with the copies.

- All new games had LESS playing options than already present in WOW (be it PvP, PVE, Raid, personaly flying mounts, seamless world etc...)

- The only 2 games above the 250K long term players markets are EVE (NOT a Wow copy) and GW (using a different model as a subs based game).

- Most people like to play ... what their friends play. Discuss tactics in RL, classes in RL, adventures in RL, have a Wow talk with a pint and their friends.

----> So you have to breach that pattern to have a WOW killer.

 

----Question to the OP ----

And to the OP: WOW ACHIEVED this status by being the BEST selling PC game of 2004 ..., 2005, ... 2006, ... 2007, ... 2008, and yes the first half of 2009.

Calculating that every expansion of Blizzard automatically sells into millions of copies (no matter what), how long will YOU think it will take to see a changing number one on www.xfie.com
 

And now have a look at http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

Really you should click on it and explain WOW growth these days. As Xfire ALWAYS in the past shows the trends MONTHS in advance.

 

it sounds to me like he is an angry troll

The only game that could possibly be a Wow killer is Wow2.

MMOs don't loose all their subs to a single game. EQ is still alive even though both Wow and EQ2 have been out for 5 years.

Most MMOs slowly looses players until the company think they are not making enough money on it and cancels the title, few games just gets killed fast by another game.

Wow do have reached it's top, the numbers have been flatting out since the release of the last expansion and fallen somewhat. But it could go up again if Blizzard spent the time to revamp the graphics and the old zones making the game look like a new game and balancing the old content. I kinda doubt it however, Wow is aging.

The game will be around for a long time, my guess is 5-15 years more while slowly bleeding out everyone but the fanatics.

I think that the time is soon past for the almost monopoly we seen the last years, there wont be one huge game and some small, we will probably have the market divided by 3-5 games with 1-2 million subs instead of a single huge one. Unless Guildwars 2 will be one of the best MMOs ever, then it's subscription model (pay a single fee once and pay fo expansions, no itemshops or monthly fees) will gank the P2P and F2P models and make the game the largest one by far.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

----Question to the OP ----

And to the OP: WOW ACHIEVED this status by being the BEST selling PC game of 2004 ..., 2005, ... 2006, ... 2007, ... 2008, and yes the first half of 2009.

pretty sure the best selling pc game during most of those years, was The Sims 2..... as it's sold more copies overall, and was released the same year..... not nit picking, just saying..... and actually, i'm pretty sure both The Sims 1 and 2, have sold a lot more copies, as each one counted is an actual sale, where blizzard just likes to count subscribers... like the chinese by hour system, which does not include a actual box sales...

Originally posted by Zorndorf

And now have a look at http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

Really you should click on it and explain WOW growth these days. As Xfire ALWAYS in the past shows the trends MONTHS in advance.

No it doesn't. It possibly shows the trends right now, and only with X-fire users.

You can use it as one of the ways to see how a game goes right now but if you think X.fire can see the future you should probably sit down and think a few minutes :)

And there could be other reasons for the rise like bad weather and people being free from school and work. The fact that Eve online, Guildwars and LOTRO shows the exact same curve (and that was the 3 games I checked) do point to the conclusion that people have been playing more this month than usual.

And Wow was higher after WoTLK even though that only proves that people played more hours, not that the game had more players. Kinda same thing you most likely proven unless people buying a lot of new MMOs right now of all kinds.

To be a WoWkiller, they need all or most of the stated points:

-Conquerable land. Fight for your alliance.

-Ability to defend the said land.

-Ability to fight on mounts.

-Ability to build towers, walls and crap.

-Flying mounts everywhere.

-AA emplacements on the said towers to prevent people going straight for the town.

-An interactive evolving storyline not static like WoW.

-Voice them quests.

-Moar in game cutscenes.

-Make instances less of a joke.

-2 level 20s should be able to kill a level 40. Therefore a mob of level 10s should actually be feared.

-BIG BIG BIG game world.

-Moar npcs and cities, better ai.

-Grow a farm.

-Harvest useful materials from the said farm.

-Mining less of a joke - Actually able to pilot drills and dig the ground, not just a node where you stand on top of and throw your pick at.

Just my 0.02.

Originally posted by mokoleus

Originally posted by Zorndorf

----Question to the OP ----

And to the OP: WOW ACHIEVED this status by being the BEST selling PC game of 2004 ..., 2005, ... 2006, ... 2007, ... 2008, and yes the first half of 2009.

pretty sure the best selling pc game during most of those years, was The Sims 2..... as it's sold more copies overall, and was released the same year..... not nit picking, just saying..... and actually, i'm pretty sure both The Sims 1 and 2, have sold a lot more copies, as each one counted is an actual sale, where blizzard just likes to count subscribers... like the chinese by hour system, which does not include a actual box sales...

You are right, the Sims games have sold more than 110 million copies so far. Guitarr hero have also been in top of Wow a few years like 2008.

The top ten best-selling PC games. Please note that the sales figures for expansion packs are not used in calculation of the sales figure for the original game (with the exception of StarCraft and Guild Wars).

* The Sims (16 million shipped)[148]
* The Sims 2 (13 million)[149]
o The Sims 2: Pets [expansion pack] (5.6 million)[150]
o The Sims 2: Seasons [expansion pack] (1 million)[150]
* World of Warcraft (11.5 million subscribers)[151]
o World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade [expansion pack] (3.5 million)[152]
o World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King [expansion pack] (4 million)[151]
* StarCraft (11 million)[153]
* Half-Life (9.3 million,[21][22] may include PS2 version)
o Half-Life: Opposing Force [expansion pack] (1.1 million)[21][22]
* Half-Life 2 (6.5 million,[21][22] may include Xbox version but does not include Steam sales)
* Guild Wars (6 million in North America, Europe, and Asia; includes Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North)[154]
* Myst (6 million)[155]
* Counter-Strike (4.2 million,[21][22])
* Cossacks: European Wars (4 million)[156]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

This is the total numbers sold. But still, Wow sold a lot of copies, you can't take that from them.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by mokoleus

Originally posted by Zorndorf

----Question to the OP ----

And to the OP: WOW ACHIEVED this status by being the BEST selling PC game of 2004 ..., 2005, ... 2006, ... 2007, ... 2008, and yes the first half of 2009.

pretty sure the best selling pc game during most of those years, was The Sims 2..... as it's sold more copies overall, and was released the same year..... not nit picking, just saying..... and actually, i'm pretty sure both The Sims 1 and 2, have sold a lot more copies, as each one counted is an actual sale, where blizzard just likes to count subscribers... like the chinese by hour system, which does not include a actual box sales...

 

You are right, the Sims games have sold more than 110 million copies so far. Guitarr hero have also been in top of Wow a few years like 2008.

The top ten best-selling PC games. Please note that the sales figures for expansion packs are not used in calculation of the sales figure for the original game (with the exception of StarCraft and Guild Wars).

* The Sims (16 million shipped)[148]
* The Sims 2 (13 million)[149]
o The Sims 2: Pets [expansion pack] (5.6 million)[150]
o The Sims 2: Seasons [expansion pack] (1 million)[150]
* World of Warcraft (11.5 million subscribers)[151]
o World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade [expansion pack] (3.5 million)[152]
o World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King [expansion pack] (4 million)[151]
* StarCraft (11 million)[153]
* Half-Life (9.3 million,[21][22] may include PS2 version)
o Half-Life: Opposing Force [expansion pack] (1.1 million)[21][22]
* Half-Life 2 (6.5 million,[21][22] may include Xbox version but does not include Steam sales)
* Guild Wars (6 million in North America, Europe, and Asia; includes Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North)[154]
* Myst (6 million)[155]
* Counter-Strike (4.2 million,[21][22])
* Cossacks: European Wars (4 million)[156]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

This is the total numbers sold. But still, Wow sold a lot of copies, you can't take that from them.

 

oh, i wouldn't deny  that WoW sold a lot. i was just pointing out that it was outsold by the sims. and if you want to get anal about it, you can throw in various pokemon games, nintendogs, a few gtas, a couple of super mario games, and i believe in actual box sales, starcraft, have all outsold WoW. a lot of that is an unfair comparison, due to when the games were released.  though i do find it amusing that nintendogs has solds more then 4 million copies more then WoW, in less time... but of course, those are all one time sales, and no re-curring money is made.

no one was denying the massive success that WoW is, just i don't think it's ever been the best selling game of any year. most likely in the top ten or five once or twice.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Loke666

 

You are right, the Sims games have sold more than 110 million copies so far. Guitarr hero have also been in top of Wow a few years like 2008.

The top ten best-selling PC games. Please note that the sales figures for expansion packs are not used in calculation of the sales figure for the original game (with the exception of StarCraft and Guild Wars).

* The Sims (16 million shipped)[148]
* The Sims 2 (13 million)[149]
o The Sims 2: Pets [expansion pack] (5.6 million)[150]
o The Sims 2: Seasons [expansion pack] (1 million)[150]
* World of Warcraft (11.5 million subscribers)[151]
o World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade [expansion pack] (3.5 million)[152]
o World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King [expansion pack] (4 million)[151]
* StarCraft (11 million)[153]
* Half-Life (9.3 million,[21][22] may include PS2 version)
o Half-Life: Opposing Force [expansion pack] (1.1 million)[21][22]
* Half-Life 2 (6.5 million,[21][22] may include Xbox version but does not include Steam sales)
* Guild Wars (6 million in North America, Europe, and Asia; includes Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North)[154]
* Myst (6 million)[155]
* Counter-Strike (4.2 million,[21][22])
* Cossacks: European Wars (4 million)[156]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

This is the total numbers sold. But still, Wow sold a lot of copies, you can't take that from them.

 

 

No you are wrong.

I said the BEST selling PC game in each year of 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008  and the first half of 2009 was WOW an its expansions.

You add the total numbers of sold copies. . Each year a WOW product was individually  the best selling PC game.

Wow is by far the most succesful (money wise) maker in the complete game industry.

It has the EQUIVALENT ot 35.000.000 to 40.000.000 copies in subs worth alone (7 M subs * times 30 dollars * 6 subs cards).

That's ... the yearly 1.2 Billion dollars seen in its earnings spreadsheet. :))))))

Most games come only to 5 to 20 million dollars because they simply are NOT subs based.

 

Awesome how much do they get to keep from that?

Offline games sell and thats it no upkeep costs from servers devs gm's etc.

Nintendo makes more money in the industry then Blizzard

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Zorndorf

And now have a look at http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/

Really you should click on it and explain WOW growth these days. As Xfire ALWAYS in the past shows the trends MONTHS in advance.

 

No it doesn't. It possibly shows the trends right now, and only with X-fire users.

You can use it as one of the ways to see how a game goes right now but if you think X.fire can see the future you should probably sit down and think a few minutes :)

And there could be other reasons for the rise like bad weather and people being free from school and work. The fact that Eve online, Guildwars and LOTRO shows the exact same curve (and that was the 3 games I checked) do point to the conclusion that people have been playing more this month than usual.

And Wow was higher after WoTLK even though that only proves that people played more hours, not that the game had more players. Kinda same thing you most likely proven unless people buying a lot of new MMOs right now of all kinds.

Xfire represent 200.000 to 300.000PC players on line 24Hr/7 days.
Xfire showed EVEVRY trend with EVERY launched mmorpg played in our western world

You know it. http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/

And it certainly beats the wet thumb prediction of the OP troll's posting.

 

Xfire is wet tumb too