On topic, I've grown up playing some games, ( mostly like everyone of my generation ), from the very beginning @ the commodore amiga 64 with Kickoff, past the gameboy generation with pokemon, fifa, Playstation times, with Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider, until I fell into MMORPGs and FPS's.

Played almost every MMORPG out there, and I'm tired. I'm always downloading mmorpgs, even if I've tried them a couple of weeks before and didn't like it, just to see if I can hang to hit for some time.

I just can't seem to find any interest for a long time in these mmos today.
Perhaps we need something different, perhaps I need to try something different relatively to MMOs.


I sold my Playstation 1 and a short while after, my PS2. I won't disgrace myself buying another console. I don't have interest on them for a long time either.


I suppose I'm stuck with the games I have, because I don't have anything suitable for my taste. :(

 The problem with mmos is that it has become more of a mission for devs on how to make money rather than how to make an epic mmo. I'm not tired of mmos but I'm really disappointed that  we have not been receiving anything different since WOW thus far. I'm sure someday we'll get something really great but by that time alot people probably will have grown tired of paying monthly fees for rehashed ideas.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by JGMIII

I did get tired so I bought an Xbox360 about 500 bucks in games, a live account and it was fun.

Hell it's still fun even though I've come back to my two favorite MMOs.

All it took was a couple months off and for me to try two 21 day trials of my favorite sandbox games Eve online and Saga of Ryzom.

 

 

Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.

I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.

I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.

Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".

From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.

I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.

I've noticed that the MMO scene just isnt holding my attention anymore i jump between ROM GW and Lineage 2 because i get bored of on or the other and have to go play the other ones.  actually at this point I've been playing more single player story FPS games they seem to feel a little more involved in that i have an actual story that progresses. too much in MMO are the quest just kill theis go get this etc... but i guess it is just hard to insert story into MMO's because even in GW %98 of all players in mission maps skip the custscenes.  oh well i suppose i will just have to keep jumping back and forth.  heres hoping for some groundbreaking MMO.

P.S. i have never really understood the WOW clone statement because WOW isn't the first ever MMO or RPG for that matter there were Numerous games that did the same thing before it yet all we refer to is WOW.  essentially all these games are dungeon and dragons clones no? not the MMO dungeons and dragons the original dungeons and dragons

Sounds like maybe you just have a case of MMO burnout OP.  We ALL get it at some point or another.  You do something so often for so long and it gets boring no matter what it is.  Hey, I bet you even a rock star get's bored of doing concerts night in and night out because it get's boring for them, even though us on the other side think it would be magnificent.  See my point? 

Maybe you should just take a break for a while.  When you come back, pick up a new mmo you haven't tried so you can experience the new content.  And actually DO the content.  Read the quest text, don't just grab it and run and kill things or escort things and then turn in.

When I get MMO burnout I usually will take between 1-3 months off and when I go back I feel excited to play the game again for a good long while. 

Try it out...it couldn't hurt (and saves your wallet the sub fees for a few months :D)

The OP wrote a really good post and makes a few great points.

It's funny, while reading this, It made me think about how similar the development of the MMO as a genre is to the development of technology in the United States from the 1960's until today. 

In the Late 50's alot of magazines and books were released detailing the world in the year 2000. The concepts and Ideas generated in that time period generally fall under what we refer to as "retro futurism". 

And what retro futurism was, was the Idealism of the 50's and the then, rate of technological development applied to the timespan between the years of 1950 and 2000. Unfortunately the fallacy that alluded the ideals expressed in alot of retro futuristic literature, was the american rule of if it ain't broke don't fix it. 

People predicted that we'd be living in spacestations eating nutrition cubes and getting around by jetpack. Unfortunately as a country we became far too comfortable doing what worked to care enough to change anything.

My point is when Everquest came out I remember thinking "how amazingly cool will MMO's be in 10 years" and the truth is, IMO the genre has gone downhill. Instead of taking to time to innovate, the developers just kept dishing out the same old crap in a new wrapper. What we need is a game like The Old Republic, to come out and become exteremly successful, so that all other developers will look and say "hey Innovation does bring the masses, lets see what we can do"

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by JGMIII

I did get tired so I bought an Xbox360 about 500 bucks in games, a live account and it was fun.

Hell it's still fun even though I've come back to my two favorite MMOs.

All it took was a couple months off and for me to try two 21 day trials of my favorite sandbox games Eve online and Saga of Ryzom.

 

 

Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.

I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.

I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.

Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".

From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.

I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.

So true, I am loving my 360 right now and with so many great games coming up like Borderlands, Dragon Age Origins,Left4Dead 2 Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 just to name a few. Then we have games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to look forward to. Though I am really hoping that Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic and Blizzard's next mmo will be awesome.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by JGMIII

I did get tired so I bought an Xbox360 about 500 bucks in games, a live account and it was fun.

Hell it's still fun even though I've come back to my two favorite MMOs.

All it took was a couple months off and for me to try two 21 day trials of my favorite sandbox games Eve online and Saga of Ryzom.

 

 

Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.

I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.

I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.

Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".

From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.

I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.

 

So true, I am loving my 360 right now and with so many great games coming up like Borderlands, Dragon Age Origins,Left4Dead 2 Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 just to name a few. Then we have games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to look forward to. Though I am really hoping that Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic and Blizzard's next mmo will be awesome.

On a side note...

Just got the red rings of death today AGAIN on my Xbox360.  This # 4 and I've only had this Elite for six months!  GG Microsoft FTL!!!

I know I've grown tired of all the corporate b.s. associated with many MMOs.  Advertise stuff, print it on the box even, take money and then fail to deliver--b.s..  Broken features, promises to fix them, and never actually do it--b.s..  Put in a ticket for a game-breaking bug, and never (at anytime) get any response--b.s..  Craft stuff and then have the MMO producer turn all your crafted gear into crap by changing the game's model from crafting to loot drops--b.s..  Start playing a subscription based MMO and have it turn into an RMT plus subscription game--b.s..  Spend months gaining skills, powers or professions only to have them all removed from the game--b.s..  Have any or all of the above b.s. happen, and then be told that I as a player actually asked for this--b.s.. 

I still think MMOs could be fun without all the b.s., but damn there's just too much of it.

Some games don't pile this crap on their customers, but it seems they're the rare gems in a field of manure.

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by dippitydodah

At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward,  put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon.    Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment,   MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment,   one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against.  

These aren't games,  they have no end, no story,  no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment.    It is a Machine, built for one reason,  to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.     

 

All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was.     Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction,  good luck.

 

This is a very good post.

But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.

Without the other players you have a really poor game.

Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.

MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by dippitydodah

At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward,  put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon.    Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment,   MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment,   one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against.  

These aren't games,  they have no end, no story,  no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment.    It is a Machine, built for one reason,  to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.     

 

All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was.     Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction,  good luck.

 

This is a very good post.

 

But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.

Without the other players you have a really poor game.

Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.

MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.

 

Yeah but if you want to get too deep, all hobbies are at their core time versus reward.

Originally posted by TeranHawkins

 

On a side note...

Just got the red rings of death today AGAIN on my Xbox360.  This # 4 and I've only had this Elite for six months!  GG Microsoft FTL!!!

<off topic>

that blows I havent seen many people complaining about the red ring since the new arcade and elite consoles releases its down to under .5% possiblilty of getting that.

Microsoft will probably just replace it for free.

How often do you play? I personally only get maybe 2-3 hours at the most of straight through gameplay.

Xbox360 is like any other PC if you play for 10+ hours straight  sooner or later your going to burn out something.

I p[lay in moderation and while I understand Red ring could be frustrating Ps3 just isnt worth the purchase since Xbox exclusives destroy that system (only reason to play a Ps3 is MGS4,Killzone2 and Infamous, three games dont warrent a purchase lol), so i'll take my chances with the Red ring.

Hope it get fixed for you.

<off topic>

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by dippitydodah

At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward,  put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon.    Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment,   MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment,   one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against.  

These aren't games,  they have no end, no story,  no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment.    It is a Machine, built for one reason,  to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.     

 

All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was.     Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction,  good luck.

 

This is a very good post.

 

But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.

Without the other players you have a really poor game.

Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.

MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.

 

 

Yeah but if you want to get too deep, all hobbies are at their core time versus reward.

Well I don't want to get to hung up on semantics but there is a difference between a "hobby" and a competitive game.

Hobby

n., pl. -bies.

An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.

It really is subjective in this case. People play MMO for different reasons

But again, at their core, games are a social recreation activity. Chess "clubs", Tennis "clubs" Softball teams...can't do any without other players and other players you enjoy being around.

MMO's are getting dry for me too =/ they used to be so awesome, I don't know whats happened. =(

Originally posted by SaintViktor

 The problem with mmos is that it has become more of a mission for devs on how to make money rather than how to make an epic mmo. I'm not tired of mmos but I'm really disappointed that  we have not been receiving anything different since WOW thus far. I'm sure someday we'll get something really great but by that time alot people probably will have grown tired of paying monthly fees for rehashed ideas.

Yeah, and this is why I plan to take a really long hiatus from Mmorpgs; I prefer not to drag myself through the trenches with the awful MMOs today just to end up totally feeling fed up with the genre when something good does come out.

At least after a long break (even though I've already been away for over half a year) my interest can regenerate when the next generation of MMOs finally do come out.

I'll give Swtor beta a try and keep a close ear on any other releases and that is it....=/

Well... many games including MMOs used Unrelal engine 2 and 2.5 to this point. But now, when Unreal 3 engine is out it open for more possibilities for developers. Thanks to WoW MMo market growth even larger, more investors interested in it, especially in Asia. So new wave of games with improved overall graphics and gameplay about to came out.

For me, it looks like there no decent game for MMO veterans, because they have seen a lot and when then try new game the overall experience just in beginner levels tell much about the game. There so much similarity between games that many action become a drill especially questing. Too many games are quest-grind based. Quests are not quests anymore, you don't need to investigate anything now, quest log say all about it, pint exact location or even auto-walks you there in some games. Quests became utility for leveling. Why do I have to kill whole bandit camp in order to that that girl? Can't I talk with over? Buy her out, scare them,do them a favor, became leader of them? Why my actions doesn't affect character? I could gain different reputations when I complete a quest which will affect my further experience.

I think many MMOs out there suffer from same simmilar sickness - "Replayability". It either fun to get to maximum( or certain) level and then face the doom of boredom cause there no content left. Or struggle with leveling to the maximum( or certain) level and then have fun. In order to get some action I must first spend many weeks and maybe month to get to that magic level and maybe exactly or even more time to get decent gear for it. Look at FPS,RTS and true RPG. They don't suffer from this, why MMO does?

However, by looking at Aion (thank to beta events) I could say that MMO doesn't stay in same place. I'm sure we will get great titles quite soon. People here have already said many of them I will just add some more: Tera,Mabinogi Heroes,Continent of the ninth

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by dippitydodah

At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward,  put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon.    Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment,   MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment,   one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against.  

These aren't games,  they have no end, no story,  no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment.    It is a Machine, built for one reason,  to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.     

 

All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was.     Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction,  good luck.

 

This is a very good post.

 

But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.

Without the other players you have a really poor game.

Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.

MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.

 

Torak, I think you're right, but only half so. The other aspect of MMOs is that players, in the backs of their minds, are expecting a world to play in.
But we don't get that. We get a backdrop.

Originally posted by Jackio81

You know, I use to be very enthusiastic at the idea of playing with hundreds of other players across the globe, MMOs felt like the ultimate gaming experience.

But now, I don't seem to care anymore. MMOs feel like nothing more than giant chat rooms where players can compare epeens, kill simple AI minded mobs 5millions times over and over and call them selves hardcore gamers for doing so (grind>skill=hardcore..>>).

 

Another words....MMOs aren't fun anymore, hell maybe I should take back the indirect suggestion they were fun to begin with. Much of the draw in these types of games was the immersion factor and being able to play with hundreds of others.

But since it  seems the full concept of all that can be done with multi-player games doesn't seem to be fully grasped yet by developers (just have this feeling there's so much more that can be done with MMOs that just hasn't been realized yet). All MMOs seem to me now is watered down RPG games designed for repetition and every thing you can think of that would epically fail as a single player game.

-grind

-retarded AI

(any other game would actually require you to think how to defeat your enemies...in MMOs it's all about taking turns whacking each other until one keels over...and it always relies on the one with the biggest stick)

 

These two issues would spell certain doom for any other single player game but for an MMO it is it's core elements on what they're built on.

And finally there's the variety issue, there isn't a lot of good MMOs out there, just one giant MMO that's dominated all and monopolized the industry.

Take FPS for instance, as many fanbois as there are for an overly hyped game like Halo. It's not the only FPS in the market that counts. Because there are tons of other great games in the FPS genre that can hold there own and give it's audience some thing MMOs have flat out failed to do...and it's give it's audience variety.

Now this is not an argument over FPS>MMOs...not by a long shot so don't think of going there, FPS games were an example. And Halo is pretty much the equivalent of WoW in the FPS market.

 

So I guess the question I'm left asking is....what reason is there left to play MMOs anymore....how many more times are we going to have to deal with one failed attempt to bring variety into the market from another before we call quits...?

Personally I am not. I love the core principle behind the genre, and I love classic heroic fantasy.

Am I sick, though, of solo focused no challange no community games and the rising spectre of Pay to Achieve gaming?

Yes. Totally.

I like social co-op challenege driven Play to Achieve gaming, but the general mmo public have made that a dead duck through choosing the ez mode instant gratification routes constantly. People may complain about the present state of mmorpgs today, but the truth is that the mmo public has ended up with exactly the game they asked for and now deserve.

The truth is that the majority of mmoers got, and still are, confused about what they think they 'want' (as defined by the latest fashionable zeigeist of lazy thinking) and what actually makes a good mmorpg. In seeking to 'fix' what they have been told was bad about mmorpgs they have allowed the goose that lays the golden eggs to be slaughtered by greedy devs looking to make maximise their core market and instant short term profit.

...and just to clarify, this isnt a point about raiding, I dont like to raid and co-op social gaming isnt defined by raiding, and it isnt about casual vs hardcore, casual dosent have to mean stupid or easy. It is about the death of community. 

There has been a strong element of newer and burnt out old schoolers (who usually just no longer have the time to invest in a mmorpg due to personal life changes) that wants to strip away everything good about mmorpgs (investment, community, challenge) and just have a game you can drop in to play for 15 minutes when you want and zone out on auto pilot after work, which would be fine if they didnt then go on to complain about the games now being crap after they have played them for a week. They, in the main, are the very ones that have made them crap.

Heres a shock... mmorpgs, without the investment, community, and challenge, have ALWAYS been crap.

But am I sick of them? Not as long as there is one game I can still play my way in the company of good people.

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by dippitydodah

At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward,  put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon.    Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment,   MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment,   one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against.  

These aren't games,  they have no end, no story,  no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment.    It is a Machine, built for one reason,  to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.     

 

All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was.     Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction,  good luck.

 

This is a very good post.

 

But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.

Without the other players you have a really poor game.

Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.

MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.

 

I didnt read this before i posted.

QFT of course :)

I sympathize with the OP. So much so that I can no longer personally justify monthly subscription fees to play; especially with all the great single player and FPS multiplayer (free) games out right now.