Originally posted by xersent

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Originally posted by marcust

Well I recently paid the $50 and bought a US account, and closed my EU subscription.

Being aussie my ping reduced from about 440 to 210.

While 210 is still outside your acceptable range, it plays fine.

You realise that $50 includes a month of playtime right, so its effectively $35.

So what your telling me is your an old UO player, who likes this game but wont fork out a measley $35 to this small development house to play this game because of some moral indignation. You sir are a tool.

I'm more than happy to help finance future development of the best MMO since UO.

So what if they are better developers than business people, I have to admit being the same, life goes on.

Please go take your moral indignation somewhere else and go have a good cry.

I'll just go have fun ingame.

Have a nice life, a good day, or whatever it is you passive aggressive yanks say.

 

 

Wow...

Thats some hate there bro. The main issue is I have to buy accounts for my family. My father, brother, and myself. that measly 35 as you say spikes up to 105.00 as opposed to 45. Thats a 50% savings.

Lets talk about my 20 many guild, thats 700 instead of 300. So yeah... Im a bit disappointed. I do enjoy UO, and DF... looks good. However, not good enough for me to buy the game twice. For you it was, and Im glad you did. However, when a small dev company comes out and makes a product, and I take a risk on them, and they promise me that they will take care of me, then dont, and demand I repurchase the game... its only natural for me not to want to give them more money.

If you personally dont have an issue with it, thats fine. However, when someone tells me one thing, then does another, it tends to ruffle my feathers a bit. You are a much more forgiving man than I.

 

Well cant u just buy yours and let your father buy your brothers and his own.

Neither of them have the extra income atm to afford that kind of purchase. I do what I can to help out.

Originally posted by qbangy32

Seems to me those from NA and other non-EU countries read too much into the "Allowance" part of the statement, allowing transfers of characters after 90 days seems a fair "Allowance".

Everyone and their dog wanted to play on the EU servers, EU customers where denied access to DFO in the rush period because of this and now those non EU players feel just as shafted as those that wanted an EU only localised server from the start, I'd call this justice really for not being able to wait for your own server.

 

The issue is AV made it extremely vague. Folks made assumptions, and when questions were asked on the forums, these assumptions were posted as fact. Not a single AV spokesmen or employee stepped up to counter these posts... and thus it was assumed to be true. AV screwed up the communication.

You are welcome to think what you like. AV chose not to localize, and let folks from everywhere buy the game. BETA players were supposed to get first crack at it, and they didnt. First week or so of launch was horrible for anyone on either side of the pond. Not to mention half my guild got in, while the other half continued to try for a month before finally giving up.

You can say its justified if you like, you are welcome to your opinion. However, for me and my group, AV led us to believe that we would be able to play the NA version with no aditional fees. We then come to find out thats not the case. AV then also changes their user policy to cover their butts... and understandably a lot of us are upset.

This all comes down to business. If you love DF you should want us ot be able to do this just as much as we do. Why? Strictly cause more people playing = more revenue for AV = more content and devs for you as well. Us not playing = less of all of that, and if AV's financials dont do well you get a dead game.

Fact of the matter is AV is a small dev company and they cant afford to make enemies and run people off, AV needs to fix this and honor what they originally stated.

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Originally posted by qbangy32

Seems to me those from NA and other non-EU countries read too much into the "Allowance" part of the statement, allowing transfers of characters after 90 days seems a fair "Allowance".

Everyone and their dog wanted to play on the EU servers, EU customers where denied access to DFO in the rush period because of this and now those non EU players feel just as shafted as those that wanted an EU only localised server from the start, I'd call this justice really for not being able to wait for your own server.

 

 

The issue is AV made it extremely vague. Folks made assumptions, and when questions were asked on the forums, these assumptions were posted as fact. Not a single AV spokesmen or employee stepped up to counter these posts... and thus it was assumed to be true. AV screwed up the communication.

You are welcome to think what you like. AV chose not to localize, and let folks from everywhere buy the game. BETA players were supposed to get first crack at it, and they didnt. First week or so of launch was horrible for anyone on either side of the pond. Not to mention half my guild got in, while the other half continued to try for a month before finally giving up.

You can say its justified if you like, you are welcome to your opinion. However, for me and my group, AV led us to believe that we would be able to play the NA version with no aditional fees. We then come to find out thats not the case. AV then also changes their user policy to cover their butts... and understandably a lot of us are upset.

This all comes down to business. If you love DF you should want us ot be able to do this just as much as we do. Why? Strictly cause more people playing = more revenue for AV = more content and devs for you as well. Us not playing = less of all of that, and if AV's financials dont do well you get a dead game.

Fact of the matter is AV is a small dev company and they cant afford to make enemies and run people off, AV needs to fix this and honor what they originally stated.

There's a word that sums your position up quite well "Assume" and when broken down means "Makes an Ass of you and Me", you made too many assumptions of what you where going to get, perhaps you've not been playing MMO's for a great deal of time and are still quite wet behind the ears in regards to "Promises" made by devs or other vague statements.

Most veteran players will tell you "Never believe anything a Developer tells you" what is said is highly likely to be changed/forgotten/shelved/cancelled/lied or misquoted.

Believe it when you see it and never ever expect more than what is on offer, more times than not your going to get less in the end anyway.

Whatever is eventually offered will be a mere shadow of what was originally offered in the first place or a half assed attempt.

Originally posted by qbangy32

Seems to me those from NA and other non-EU countries read too much into the "Allowance" part of the statement, allowing transfers of characters after 90 days seems a fair "Allowance".

Everyone and their dog wanted to play on the EU servers, EU customers where denied access to DFO in the rush period because of this and now those non EU players feel just as shafted as those that wanted an EU only localised server from the start, I'd call this justice really for not being able to wait for your own server.

 

Justice?

I have to ask, how was EU customers denied access? If anyone should get blame for any "shafting", it should be Aventurine.

If Aventurine HAD localized the EU server, do you really believe we would even be discussing the topic of this thread right now?

Single character per server.

That was the terms when people created accounts, up until Aventurine changed it shortly before the NA launch.

How anyone can try to put the blame anywhere other than Aventurine is beyond me.

Justice...

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by qbangy32

Seems to me those from NA and other non-EU countries read too much into the "Allowance" part of the statement, allowing transfers of characters after 90 days seems a fair "Allowance".

Everyone and their dog wanted to play on the EU servers, EU customers where denied access to DFO in the rush period because of this and now those non EU players feel just as shafted as those that wanted an EU only localised server from the start, I'd call this justice really for not being able to wait for your own server.

 

Justice?

 

I have to ask, how was EU customers denied access? If anyone should get blame for any "shafting", it should be Aventurine.

 

If Aventurine HAD localized the EU server, do you really believe we would even be discussing the topic of this thread right now?

 

Single character per server.

That was the terms when people created accounts, up until Aventurine changed it shortly before the NA launch.

How anyone can try to put the blame anywhere other than Aventurine is beyond me.

 

Justice...

If memory serves correctly the shop had a limited amount of copies, when the copies where sold out the shop closed, if there where 100 copies sold and 90 of them went to NA becuase they got there first then 90 copies where denied to EU customers on a EU server.

I don't deny AV are to blame for this shortcoming in distribution, but I find it ironic that NA players are now complaining about issues over "Allowances" made for them to be able to move freely to the new NA server once it went live, the term "Buyer Beware" rings true here.

Also I have to laugh why ppl are so expectant that AV would deliver on free server moves when they screwed up everything else and made themselves out to be complete imbeciles in releasing DFO, this is one reason I've steered well clear of buying the game, I've just watched the debacle from afar, but had to respond once ppl realised they got shafted yet again.

If the NA players hadn't been so impatient and waited then none of these issues would be happening, it's just like getting into a korean MMO early and then realising you can't understand jack then having to buy another copy once it gets localised.

That's absolutely a valid viewpoint, considering you aren't taking into account all of the information on the topic.  If I hadn't been involved in it personally, I wouldn't have cared enough to read all of it either.

Saying "but they are allowing server transfers"  then later adding "...in 3 months...for a fee" is akin to saying "You can have this car!" then adding "...in 3 months...and you have to pay for it."  It isn't beyond reason that you'd have to pay for it, but it certainly wasn't the expectation set from the start;) 

That might be acceptable to some of you, and I respect that.  It isn't acceptable, and downright fraudulant, to others of us and you should respect that.

EDIT! left out a whole word that time...go me!

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Originally posted by marcust

Well I recently paid the $50 and bought a US account, and closed my EU subscription.

Being aussie my ping reduced from about 440 to 210.

While 210 is still outside your acceptable range, it plays fine.

You realise that $50 includes a month of playtime right, so its effectively $35.

So what your telling me is your an old UO player, who likes this game but wont fork out a measley $35 to this small development house to play this game because of some moral indignation. You sir are a tool.

I'm more than happy to help finance future development of the best MMO since UO.

So what if they are better developers than business people, I have to admit being the same, life goes on.

Please go take your moral indignation somewhere else and go have a good cry.

I'll just go have fun ingame.

Have a nice life, a good day, or whatever it is you passive aggressive yanks say.

 

 

Wow...

Thats some hate there bro. The main issue is I have to buy accounts for my family. My father, brother, and myself. that measly 35 as you say spikes up to 105.00 as opposed to 45. Thats a 50% savings.

Lets talk about my 20 many guild, thats 700 instead of 300. So yeah... Im a bit disappointed. I do enjoy UO, and DF... looks good. However, not good enough for me to buy the game twice. For you it was, and Im glad you did. However, when a small dev company comes out and makes a product, and I take a risk on them, and they promise me that they will take care of me, then dont, and demand I repurchase the game... its only natural for me not to want to give them more money.

If you personally dont have an issue with it, thats fine. However, when someone tells me one thing, then does another, it tends to ruffle my feathers a bit. You are a much more forgiving man than I.

No it's not hate just someone pointing out the obvious.

Originally posted by argos5

Pyrostasis. Why the hell are you fighting for a decent game that's backed by a manipulative-hack of a company? Are you THAT masochistic and desperate for a UO-style game? Seriously, stop it. You've been aware of their corrupt business practices since earlier, why care enough that you allow yourself the possibility of being suckered in? Please man, have more integrity and stop supporting this company. The game is decent, fine... but the company is a load of shazbot. Stop supporting them by caring and paying them! And y'know what, spread the word while you're at it--- Darkfall is great, Aventurine sucks!

You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, right? Let's look at a couple of examples...

You're a gamer, which means you play on a Windows system, or less likely, a Mac. Microsoft and Apple have questionable business practices up the wazoo, but that doesn't bother you enough to make a 100% jump to Linux, right? Using your "I have integrity" model, you shouldn't even be using those operating systems.

You live in LA -- a city known for its overdependence on cars and you support that lifestyle by living there, knowing they are a major contributor to the nation's pollution problem. Apparently that doesn't bother you. You do realize that corrupt "business" practices currently drives the US economy and you approve of that just by participating.

Yet, somehow, the integrity of a small insignificant game comapny sends you over the edge? You have to be kidding me.

You must be a college student. Wait until you graduate and move into the real world.

In the real world, people use what they like or find convenient, regardless of company image or integrity. Sad, but true.

So, it's apparent you decided to pull the "bad company" card just to bolster your argument, because if you actually believed your own hype you would apply it to all facets of your life. Do you?

Originally posted by qbangy32

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by qbangy32

Seems to me those from NA and other non-EU countries read too much into the "Allowance" part of the statement, allowing transfers of characters after 90 days seems a fair "Allowance".

Everyone and their dog wanted to play on the EU servers, EU customers where denied access to DFO in the rush period because of this and now those non EU players feel just as shafted as those that wanted an EU only localised server from the start, I'd call this justice really for not being able to wait for your own server.

 

Justice?

 

I have to ask, how was EU customers denied access? If anyone should get blame for any "shafting", it should be Aventurine.

 

If Aventurine HAD localized the EU server, do you really believe we would even be discussing the topic of this thread right now?

 

Single character per server.

That was the terms when people created accounts, up until Aventurine changed it shortly before the NA launch.

How anyone can try to put the blame anywhere other than Aventurine is beyond me.

 

Justice...

 

If memory serves correctly the shop had a limited amount of copies, when the copies where sold out the shop closed, if there where 100 copies sold and 90 of them went to NA becuase they got there first then 90 copies where denied to EU customers on a EU server.

I don't deny AV are to blame for this shortcoming in distribution, but I find it ironic that NA players are now complaining about issues over "Allowances" made for them to be able to move freely to the new NA server once it went live, the term "Buyer Beware" rings true here.

Also I have to laugh why ppl are so expectant that AV would deliver on free server moves when they screwed up everything else and made themselves out to be complete imbeciles in releasing DFO, this is one reason I've steered well clear of buying the game, I've just watched the debacle from afar, but had to respond once ppl realised they got shafted yet again.

If the NA players hadn't been so impatient and waited then none of these issues would be happening, it's just like getting into a korean MMO early and then realising you can't understand jack then having to buy another copy once it gets localised.

 

Look no one I know of is looking for a free server move for there existing char. What people are expecting is what they were told they were paying for. We were told One char per server, this is not an assumption on anyones part. AV said very clearly and plainly one char per server. When asked in the forums if we would be able to create a char on NA servers when they launched (This was in the Beta forums by the way) we were told yes. You find it funny that NA players are complaining about not getting what they were told they were paying for? I fund it funny that you as an EU player don't mind you got the shaft here as well. See, we were all going to get 1 char per server, no we ALL get 1 char per account. If you bought the game prior to the change then you got the shaft regardless of what region your from. NA players just feel the sting because now we can't play in our region without purchasing the game again due to this last minute change.

And by the way, since DFO could only be purchased with a CC that automatically excluded a large portion of the EU player base. Whole clans complained that without an alternative payment method they could not purchase the game. EU server was populated by mostly NA players because of this one fact. So I wouldn't get all up in arms about NA players playing on the EU server. If they hadn't bought the game, there likely wouldn't be a game atm.

Originally posted by qbangy32

There's a word that sums your position up quite well "Assume" and when broken down means "Makes an Ass of you and Me", you made too many assumptions of what you where going to get, perhaps you've not been playing MMO's for a great deal of time and are still quite wet behind the ears in regards to "Promises" made by devs or other vague statements.

Most veteran players will tell you "Never believe anything a Developer tells you" what is said is highly likely to be changed/forgotten/shelved/cancelled/lied or misquoted.

Believe it when you see it and never ever expect more than what is on offer, more times than not your going to get less in the end anyway.

Whatever is eventually offered will be a mere shadow of what was originally offered in the first place or a half assed attempt.

 

Thats why when selling a product, any company has to be VERY clear what kind of product they are selling and the cost of it. Normal companies do that to avoid just this kind of situation where people assume things that are not true. In the case of AV, they SHOULD of been explicitly clear about the terms of the NA transfers - specifically about the cost associated with that transfer. But since they are either incompetent or just greedy for a quick buck, they did not specifically mention any cost, just vaguely  mentioned  to "accomodate" those clients wishing to transfer. This is bad business in general bordering misrepresentation of their services and plain old scam.

Originally posted by Respit

Single character per server.

That was the terms when people created accounts, up until Aventurine changed it shortly before the NA launch.

How anyone can try to put the blame anywhere other than Aventurine is beyond me.

 

Oh, bingo. I'm not sure how can people not see how Aventurine did a small "fix" in the characters policy, that twisted the way it was supposed to work entirely. Underhanded changes maybe? "One character per server" leaves no room for spin to me, but oh well...

I don't play Darkfall, but I do agree with the OP.  However I see AV's predicament, it would suck for new US players to come onto a new server that already has players far beyond them.  Obviously it's something they didn't really think through all the way before hand.

Originally posted by hybridfury

I don't play Darkfall, but I do agree with the OP.  However I see AV's predicament, it would suck for new US players to come onto a new server that already has players far beyond them.  Obviously it's something they didn't really think through all the way before hand.

The sad part in all of this, AV's predicament isn't even that. Most of us simply wanted to make new chars on the NA server and not even deal with transfers. Starting fresh on the fresh server would have been nice.

Originally posted by cfurlin

You're a gamer, which means you play on a Windows system, or less likely, a Mac. Microsoft and Apple have questionable business practices up the wazoo, but that doesn't bother you enough to make a 100% jump to Linux, right? Using your "I have integrity" model, you shouldn't even be using those operating systems.

Your arguement here falls apart fast. Lets use Windows as an example, you have bought Windows 7 and  the one you bought was the US copy. Your wife however is Chinese and would find it easier to use the PC with the Chinese version. You do NOT have to rebuy Windows to do this.

When ti comes to Darkfall I have stayed away because of all I have heard about the way the company deals with the customers. They have shown a lack of competence from day one with this game but MMO grow over time so I held a wait and see. This move however has put them on my never buy list.

An MMO, more so than any other type of game, relies on the integrity and support of the company making it. The people making Darkfall have proven they are pretty clueless from day one and this last move goes beyond cluesless to just pathetic. Forcing people to buy the game twice because they do not want to transfer an account to another server. How long would this take, 3 minutes, it that?

The players understand that they would need to start over and most are fine with that so why not just transfer the account as empty, why the cloak and dagger about doing this with pauses and hidden costs?

Darkfall asked for PAYMENT to use what they publically acknowledged was a beta. Now they want you to double pay, was not the first time enough give from the customers? It is time for this company to give back to it's customers. However they do not see it that way and that is why Darkfall is a failure as a game and will be dead in less than a year.

It is a pretty good game but not good enough to put up with the BS the creators are giving their customer base.

Originally posted by Mopar63

Originally posted by cfurlin

You're a gamer, which means you play on a Windows system, or less likely, a Mac. Microsoft and Apple have questionable business practices up the wazoo, but that doesn't bother you enough to make a 100% jump to Linux, right? Using your "I have integrity" model, you shouldn't even be using those operating systems.

Your arguement here falls apart fast. Lets use Windows as an example, you have bought Windows 7 and  the one you bought was the US copy. Your wife however is Chinese and would find it easier to use the PC with the Chinese version. You do NOT have to rebuy Windows to do this.

When ti comes to Darkfall I have stayed away because of all I have heard about the way the company deals with the customers. They have shown a lack of competence from day one with this game but MMO grow over time so I held a wait and see. This move however has put them on my never buy list.

An MMO, more so than any other type of game, relies on the integrity and support of the company making it. The people making Darkfall have proven they are pretty clueless from day one and this last move goes beyond cluesless to just pathetic. Forcing people to buy the game twice because they do not want to transfer an account to another server. How long would this take, 3 minutes, it that?

The players understand that they would need to start over and most are fine with that so why not just transfer the account as empty, why the cloak and dagger about doing this with pauses and hidden costs?

Darkfall asked for PAYMENT to use what they publically acknowledged was a beta. Now they want you to double pay, was not the first time enough give from the customers? It is time for this company to give back to it's customers. However they do not see it that way and that is why Darkfall is a failure as a game and will be dead in less than a year.

It is a pretty good game but not good enough to put up with the BS the creators are giving their customer base.

 

You didn't get the point I was trying to make at all did you? BTW, thanks for following it up with 5 additional paragraphs of drivel based on your original faulty assumption. 

Seriously, AV are incompetant money grabbing tardboxes. AV allowed NA people onto the EU server despite the complete overload of the web billing/order page. Despite knowing the pings would be higher. They spent a few weeks mouthing how surprsied they were at the demand. All the while they knew  that these US people would want to transfer. SImply put AV turned their incompetance and desperate for a PVP FFA game in to a opportunity to get your money. And on this will go.... fans of this game are being liberally miked.

Please don't defend them, whatever your thoughts on DF... AV are morons and their actions should not be allowed to become mainstream practice.