Originally posted by twrule

Originally posted by fiontar

Even if you decide that the above doesn't mean anyting to you personally, we come back to the most basic question: "Why would anyone planning to play the default ruleset care if other people got to play on a care-bear server"?

They wouldn't, but NCSoft would, since it's their dollar to pay for purchase and upkeep of those additional servers.  Again, exact dollar figures elude me, but I would wager that tweaking the rift zones and pve game through patches (which the most recent ones that the NA client will launch with are already beginning to do) would be more cost effective in the long run than maintaining those extra servers with only slight differences in a small section of the game.

Any "additional servers" would just be more revenue. The total server capacity needed per 20,000 customers is the same. Having 5 PvP servers and 5 PvE servers to accommodate 100,000 people is no more expensive than having 10 PvP servers.

The incentives for PvE servers are even more complex.

The game currently has big appeal to PvP and PvE players.

*Lets run a hypothetical:

They launch with 500,000 customers on 20 PvP servers.

The grief friendly nature of the game quickly drives 50% of the initial players to quit with in four months.

They now have 20 half full servers for 250,000 subscribers.

They are paying for twice the server capacity they actually need for their subscribers.

(BTW, I think the bleed rate could be even worse than this).

*Ok, second hypothetical:

They launch with 500,000 customers on 10 PvP servers and 10 PvE servers.

By offering an enjoyable game experience for a wide range of play styles, they have a high retention rate and actually add customers.

With in four months, they have 750,000 customers on 12 PvP servers and 18 PvE servers. (Some people frustrated with the PvE servers migrate to PvE servers, but as over all subscriber base has increased, a couple new PvP servers are still warranted).

NCSoft has triple the subscriber base vs. the first hypothetical on servers near capacity.

*Now, it should be obvious which is better.

Even if you disagree on the split the community would produce, if even 10% of the subscription base would prefer to play on a PvP server, it's better financially for NCSoft and produces a more successful game.

PvE servers offer a more appropriate and enjoyable experience for PvE players AND offer an outlet for players who come to hate the PvP servers, but like the rest of the game enough to start over on a PvE server.

It's a complete no brainer.

Originally posted by fiontar

Any "additional servers" would just be more revenue. The total server capacity needed per 20,000 customers is the same. Having 5 PvP servers and 5 PvE servers to accommodate 100,000 people is no more expensive than having 10 PvP servers.

The incentives for PvE servers are even more complex.

The game currently has big appeal to PvP and PvE players.

*Lets run a hypothetical:

They launch with 500,000 customers on 20 PvP servers.

The grief friendly nature of the game quickly drives 50% of the initial players to quit with in four months.

They now have 20 half full servers for 250,000 subscribers.

They are paying for twice the server capacity they actually need for their subscribers.

(BTW, I think the bleed rate could be even worse than this).

*Ok, second hypothetical:

They launch with 500,000 customers on 10 PvP servers and 10 PvE servers.

By offering an enjoyable game experience for a wide range of play styles, they have a high retention rate and actually add customers.

With in four months, they have 750,000 customers on 12 PvP servers and 18 PvE servers. (Some people frustrated with the PvE servers migrate to PvE servers, but as over all subscriber base has increased, a couple new PvP servers are still warranted).

NCSoft has triple the subscriber base vs. the first hypothetical on servers near capacity.

*Now, it should be obvious which is better.

Even if you disagree on the split the community would produce, if even 10% of the subscription base would prefer to play on a PvP server, it's better financially for NCSoft and produces a more successful game.

PvE servers offer a more appropriate and enjoyable experience for PvE players AND offer an outlet for players who come to hate the PvP servers, but like the rest of the game enough to start over on a PvE server.

It's a complete no brainer.

 

To you maybe it's a no brainer, but that is not what this game was designed for, or designed to be.  This is like saying Chik-fil-a should serve hamburgers to increase their revenue.  It's a complete no brainer. 

I think this topic has gone way off base. The question was: Would you play on a Rift free server? Not: Do Rift free server make economic sense?

That's just my two pennies worth.

Oh, well, one more penny. The developers chose to make the game the way they did for a reason. They are the artist, this is their masterpiece. Would you have asked DaVinci to change the way he painted the Mona Lisa? Would you have asked him to offer a variant edition?

I'm not saying rift free servers would be bad, I'm sure there are people who would love them. I'm not one of those people. And by the way things look in the East, neither are 2.5 million people over there...if that's a true estimate of suscribers. I've heard more and I've heard less.

With the new Slayer system, why bother making "rift free" servers?

Originally posted by Tezcat

Simple answer, No.

 

If I didn't want the pvp I wouldn't play this game. Why do people look at/play a game they don't like and ask for it to be changed? Aion is doing really well in the east as it is. They're not going to change it just for a few people that don't like it in the west. If you don't like the rifts,pvp,rvr don't play it. There's plenty of pve style mmo's for people to choose from.
 

+1

Judging by the general forum consensus, 99% of people prefer the current server ruleset.

Not I said the chicken.   I love doing PvE and having to watch my back. Its like a nice little surprise to get into a skirmish when out questing.   Yeah there may be asshats that want to gank you and try to camp out but then you just gather up some people and make your presence known.  But hopefully there is a lot of grouping going on in the later levels of Aion. That way there is less of a chance that you'll get ganked.   I can see a lot of good battles happening while your party is out questing/adventuring and you run into a group of the opposite faction.

Edit: I always wondered what FFXI would have been like if it was open PvP. People would be fighting over places to camp out at battles at NM spawns.  There was so many times I just wanted to straight up kill someone in game but couldn't. 

I just cant wait to enter an opposing factions instance an battle it up in there and vice versa. I liked WAR's PvP except that the Destro would just play musical keeps all day.  I guess people now days really just don't like a challenge.  I hope Aion has found an answer to the musical keeps thing.  If done right I can see my self having a ton of fun in this game.

fiontar, why on earth do you think it is necessary for NCSoft to change the game's design just to make a few more people happy? I agree with the other posters saying that asking Aion to change game design to appease a few more people is stupid. This is their game, not yours. If you don't like PvP, Rift's, RvR - why play Aion?

You guys arguing for Aion to change the game's design need to stop QQing and go play something else. Aion is not for you.

Originally posted by JayFiveAlive

fiontar, why on earth do you think it is necessary for NCSoft to change the game's design just to make a few more people happy? I agree with the other posters saying that asking Aion to change game design to appease a few more people is stupid. This is their game, not yours. If you don't like PvP, Rift's, RvR - why play Aion?

 

You guys arguing for Aion to change the game's design need to stop QQing and go play something else. Aion is not for you.

A few more? Try a lot more. At lest 50% more. If NC doesn't like money then they will stay with the current server type and the game will go the way that T2 did. The word is already getting out a month prior to release that Aion is a griefers paradise and driving casual PVPers away in droves. The PVE's wont even give Aion a try knowing it's a PVP open game.
 

So, current server type = dead game within a year. Rift free servers and PVP servers = twice the income. PVE only servers, Rift free servers and PVP servers = triple the income.

PVPers don't have to play on the PVE friendly servers so what's the problem?

If they made different servers for different aspects, I would play on them.

But I'm not going to sit here and say they SHOULD make them. I clicked on this thread to read (by the title) a subject I have an opinion about, but the main post itself changed tempo from asking an opinion, to offering advice to server changes. That part I do not agree with.

I'm not going to say what company should do or don't, it's up to them to create the world or they can ask me for advice (lots of games consider this type of alpha testing), but I will say that just about any game I have played, I have made multiple characters on multiple servers (pve and pvp) to decide what was best for ME.

If Aion's system intact provides a better experience for me in regards to killing, looting, or grinding then I'm happy. If they implement a rift free server (takes away a portion of quests but meh sacrifice is sacrifice) because griefing IS that bad, then I'd play on that server AS WELL.

But I won't contribute to a player demand thread since as much as I can have an opinion, trying to force it onto a company to cater to my whims is folly and as it is apparent in this thread... creates more argument and bashing. No matter how professional you guys type it out to look =P.

Originally posted by Caedere

Originally posted by JayFiveAlive

fiontar, why on earth do you think it is necessary for NCSoft to change the game's design just to make a few more people happy? I agree with the other posters saying that asking Aion to change game design to appease a few more people is stupid. This is their game, not yours. If you don't like PvP, Rift's, RvR - why play Aion?

 

You guys arguing for Aion to change the game's design need to stop QQing and go play something else. Aion is not for you.

A few more? Try a lot more. At lest 50% more. If NC doesn't like money then they will stay with the current server type and the game will go the way that T2 did. The word is already getting out a month prior to release that Aion is a griefers paradise and driving casual PVPers away in droves. The PVE's wont even give Aion a try knowing it's a PVP open game.
 

So, current server type = dead game within a year. Rift free servers and PVP servers = twice the income. PVE only servers, Rift free servers and PVP servers = triple the income.

PVPers don't have to play on the PVE friendly servers so what's the problem?

I am sure everyone wishes they had your magic 8ball that tells the future. How can a game that isn't even released in the us be driving away people in 'droves' - the game isn't even out yet. There are 0 people playing Aion on NA servers right now and the people that are in NA playing on China servers love it, so they don't even count.

This game is not a Casual PvPer game - why the hell would they make it appeal to them when they are marketing toward people who like PvPing all the time?

It's just like what a previous poster said - sure chick-fil-a could serve burgers to increase their income a ton, but it's chick-fil-a, they aren't going to ever serve a burger! It's not aimed at people who want McDonalds and crap!

Originally posted by rahj83

I think this topic has gone way off base. The question was: Would you play on a Rift free server? Not: Do Rift free server make economic sense?

That's just my two pennies worth.

Oh, well, one more penny. The developers chose to make the game the way they did for a reason. They are the artist, this is their masterpiece. Would you have asked DaVinci to change the way he painted the Mona Lisa? Would you have asked him to offer a variant edition?

I'm not saying rift free servers would be bad, I'm sure there are people who would love them. I'm not one of those people. And by the way things look in the East, neither are 2.5 million people over there...if that's a true estimate of suscribers. I've heard more and I've heard less.

I just want to clear one thing up here, Asians love PvP plain and simple more so than westerners. If you look at all their f2p games and most of their p2p ones, they all center around PvP. Westerns on the other hand prefer a more PvE friendly game with concensual PvP hench the success of WoW. If Aion comes here and push for more of a PvP centric crowd, than its going to end up in the waste pile right along side AoC and WaR

In the end i say let the PvP crowd have Aion and in 3 to 6 months lets see what happens, there are far more western PvE players than PvP players and we will see Aion going the way of WaR and AoC.

Originally posted by unimatrix8

Originally posted by rahj83

I think this topic has gone way off base. The question was: Would you play on a Rift free server? Not: Do Rift free server make economic sense?

That's just my two pennies worth.

Oh, well, one more penny. The developers chose to make the game the way they did for a reason. They are the artist, this is their masterpiece. Would you have asked DaVinci to change the way he painted the Mona Lisa? Would you have asked him to offer a variant edition?

I'm not saying rift free servers would be bad, I'm sure there are people who would love them. I'm not one of those people. And by the way things look in the East, neither are 2.5 million people over there...if that's a true estimate of suscribers. I've heard more and I've heard less.

 

I just want to clear one thing up here, Asians love PvP plain and simple more so than westerners. If you look at all their f2p games and most of their p2p ones, they all center around PvP. Westerns on the other hand prefer a more PvE friendly game with concensual PvP hench the success of WoW. If Aion comes here and push for more of a PvP centric crowd, than its going to end up in the waste pile right along side AoC and WaR

In the end i say let the PvP crowd have Aion and in 3 to 6 months lets see what happens, there are far more western PvE players than PvP players and we will see Aion going the way of WaR and AoC.

That's my point. Once the new FF is released a lot of  the casual PVPers and all the PVEers will flock to that game and Aion will die, slowly, but it will die.

I'm not demanding, and I don't think anyone else is, that Aion make a PVE/PVP friendly type server. They will or they wont. But they will lose tons of income if they don't.  That's just the facts.

Since I already bought the game I'll try every class to level 20, both races, like I do in every MMO I play, then quit before the monthly fee kicks in.

I don't see how we can say that it'll die if it's not WoW-level popular in the NA, when it already has sizable fanbases in Asia, and will also be released to the EU market the same time as it is here.  Even without that level of NA support, Aion is already a successful game, and has been for nearly a year.

And to fiontar: I already answered your question.

Why would a game "die"? There are far too many people on this planet that enjoys different things. Take card games for instance. CARD GAMES. Just a few pieces of lamenated paper has people entertained for hours. Just ask any prison inmate =P.

Too many people put way too much emphasis on #1 or nothing. I for one like that I have variety with my drive thrus when I want a burger. Just because someone came up with a new burger joint doesn't mean mickey d's is going to "die". And Jack 'N' Box is still  popular, Wendy's, Burger King, Sonic, whatever...

There is such a huge player base of internet gamers that I'm sure comanies are still going to profit and survive.

Originally posted by Caedere

 Would you like  the option to play on a Rift free server but still  PVP in  zones like the Abyss but without ganked  while PVEing?

For Aion to be successfull I don't see how NC can't give players this option. There are three types of MMO gamers.

1) Player Versus Players.

2) Players who like to PVE without getting ganked and still have the option to PVP in zones and instances. Warhammer and Dark ages of Camelot type games.

3)Players who only like to PVE.

To get the numbers they are hoping for NC needs to do what Wold of Warcraft has done.  Make Aion attractive to all three and not just the Player versus players.

No, they don't need to do what you suggest, and NCSoft have big enough balls not to gimp their game to the standard of WoW.

Do us all a favour, and stay away.

If a handful of Elyos were able to shut down Asmodian leveling, why were there so many Asmodian's running around Elyos lands (15+).

I don't like being ganked. I don't like ganking others. I do think the Rifts are fun and should stay. Getting a group of 15-25 people together to clear out your area of enemy's is fun.

No.

Aion is very similiar to a lot of MMOs on the market already, why make it even more like what we already have?

It's an intersting idea that does deserve merit. and the more income will mean that the pvp servers will be around longer, and the pvp players will enjoy that (Plus they get to make fun of carebear servers, and that would be icecream on the pie)

My first beta weekend is coming up so i don't know how it would actually pan out, but like I said its an interesting idea that deserves merit.

Oh yeah and to answer the question I don't know, I probably wouldn't play on the non rift servers, just cause, no speciffic reason other than I want to experience the PvP aspect.

No.

No.

No.

No.

The simple fact of the matter is that Aion, like most any other game, is a game designed with a specific vision in mind. That vision includes a war between three races....let me repeat that, a WAR BETWEEN THREE RACES. Not a war between three races, but there just so happen to be valuabe (aka higher level) areas where the other human race decides they don't feel like trying to control. Not a war between three races, but for whatever reason there happens to be a way to turn it into a war between two...you and the balaur.

It's just like any other game. Not everyone liked Ninja Gaiden, but lots of people liked Final Fantasy. That doesn't mean you should turn meaningful aspects of Ninja Gaiden into Final Fantasy.

 There are many a well thought out arguments and more than a few that feel AIon should be thier idea of a perfect game.   Aion  doesn't exist to satisfy the developer's req. for PXP.  They make a point of telling folks its completly PVEable. They get it. Some folks want PVP, some PVE, some PVE+PVP (me).

Bottom line is NCSoft isn't in business to provide a haven for PVP, PVE, griefers etc.  They are in business to make a profit. If providing an option to avoid PVP results in an significant number of players that would otherwise choose not to play=win!!

 I personaly would like to do both. That said, there are times when I just don't feel like PVP and would welcome a 'bad hair day'/PVE only play mode to just go to for enjoyment and to relax.  It takes nothing from the game and would result in a larger player base. This isn't a copy of  ( insert favorite example here) its just good business practice.

 Yup, I suppose I could just do something else when I don't feel like being at high energy levels but its not exactly a plus for the game.

OOPS!!  On the original question of rift free..  While I would like to be able to do both I dunno that I'd make a toon on a rift free server and not be able to PVP in the rift with that toon at all.