What cracks me up the most, you guys are bitching cause its too hardcore, yet these guys on the same forum are bitching cause its not hardcore enough.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2997653/thread/246310#2997653

IMO if both people are pissed, its a good happy medium
 

If you don't like major aspects of the game dont play it. If your going to play it anyway don't complain about it.

Originally posted by markoraos

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

Wow, this post either confuses me, or reveals the existence of things I never knew about before!

I'm just wondering what all of these awesome roleplaying games were that you were playing BEFORE Dungeons and Dragons?

D&D came out in 1974.  I didn't even know they had RPGs in the 60's.  Please tell us about them!

I just reread his post, but he didnt say prior to DnD he just says older gamers...and if you do think DnD is the only pen and paper game, you are mistaken, there are thousands.

Originally posted by firesnake77

Originally posted by markoraos

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

 

Wow, this post either confuses me, or reveals the existence of things I never knew about before!

I'm just wondering what all of these awesome roleplaying games were that you were playing BEFORE Dungeons and Dragons?

D&D came out in 1974.  I didn't even know they had RPGs in the 60's.  Please tell us about them!

They did not say "before" D&D, they said "other than".  For example GURPS.

rifts is another cool one, I believe there are some others based on the vampire masquerade (sp) themes, robottech, not sure if you count warhammer and the like, but tons of lore and such there and its been around forever.

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

rifts is another cool one, I believe there are some others based on the vampire masquerade (sp) themes, robottech, not sure if you count warhammer and the like, but tons of lore and such there and its been around forever.

Warhammer Fantasy battle was definitely significantly different from D&D.  The Careers, the stats and the multi limb/crippling system was considerably different.

Holding the forward button is worse than mashing a macro.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by firesnake77

Originally posted by markoraos

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

 

Wow, this post either confuses me, or reveals the existence of things I never knew about before!

I'm just wondering what all of these awesome roleplaying games were that you were playing BEFORE Dungeons and Dragons?

D&D came out in 1974.  I didn't even know they had RPGs in the 60's.  Please tell us about them!

 

They did not say "before" D&D, they said "other than".  For example GURPS.

well, ok great. gurps and rifts came out after dungeons and dragons. which had levels.

so then from what I can tell these were alternate games to d&d.

so essentially, it's six of one/half dozen of the other.

some people preferred the later games that experimented with the system and some preferred the original. this is a completely silly argument.

so to that end, any argument that one is better than the other falls under the "ultimate nerd-off" and is NOT something that any of us want to be in.

Seriously. for our souls.

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Originally posted by LynxJSA
I'm still interested in hearing whether a level 45 has a reasonable chance in combat against a level 50.
 
 

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There is no "one shotting" in AION like other Pvp games. There is no "AOE spam" that kills people in seconds that get people to quit en masse. Since you don't have people losing 3/4 of their life after 2 seconds, it sounds reasonable to assume that you would.

I wouldn't think a 45 could actually BEAT a 50 on average, but I'd guess they could hold out long enough until the cavalry arrived depending on class.

Originally posted by Souldivide

How are you so sure? Do you know them? Or are you making some sort of uneducated guess because they do not agree with you? Please allow me to learn your gift of insight. 

  He is right, because he knows that I'm playing the NA Closed Beta, which has a level cap at 30. Ceteris paribus, it's still a grind and Nadril is also correct about the western version having more exp per mob.

  If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I'll update my information; one of the points of posting it on the forum was to get feedback on the veracity of my claim and the claim of the posters in Aionsource.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by LynxJSA
I'm still interested in hearing whether a level 45 has a reasonable chance in combat against a level 50.
 
 

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I wouldn't see why not.

 

There is no "one shotting" in AION like other Pvp games. There is no "AOE spam" that kills people in seconds that get people to quit en masse. Since you don't have people losing 3/4 of their life after 2 seconds, it sounds reasonable to assume that you would.

 

I wouldn't think a 45 could actually BEAT a 50 on average, but I'd guess they could hold out long enough until the cavalry arrived depending on class.

Im not 100% sure there arent one shots. Some of the dps classes DP abilities were rather scary... thankfully only single target.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo  

Originally posted by Souldivide

How are you so sure? Do you know them? Or are you making some sort of uneducated guess because they do not agree with you? Please allow me to learn your gift of insight. 

 

 Ceteris paribus

Fellow economist? Sorry, that phrase is used all the time at my university in the econ dept.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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I wouldn't see why not.

 

There is no "one shotting" in AION like other Pvp games. There is no "AOE spam" that kills people in seconds that get people to quit en masse. Since you don't have people losing 3/4 of their life after 2 seconds, it sounds reasonable to assume that you would.

 

I wouldn't think a 45 could actually BEAT a 50 on average, but I'd guess they could hold out long enough until the cavalry arrived depending on class.

  Nope, because people beneath you get a ton of maluses (something like -10% chance to hit per level difference); I remember dueling somebody 5 levels above me on my sorce at 15 and lost, because I had a VERY hard time landing spells. Other players have confirmed something around those lines, so I'm not just pulling it entirely out of my ass.

   One-shotting/stun-locking can also happen in Aion, but only by Assassins and Sorcs.

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo  

Originally posted by Souldivide

How are you so sure? Do you know them? Or are you making some sort of uneducated guess because they do not agree with you? Please allow me to learn your gift of insight. 

 

 Ceteris paribus

Fellow economist? Sorry, that phrase is used all the time at my university in the econ dept.

  Yeah, I took a lot of economics courses in my undergrad and minored in it, so that term really stuck with me. For those of you who haven't heard it before, it just means "with everything else held constant".

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo  

Originally posted by Souldivide

How are you so sure? Do you know them? Or are you making some sort of uneducated guess because they do not agree with you? Please allow me to learn your gift of insight. 

 

 Ceteris paribus

Fellow economist? Sorry, that phrase is used all the time at my university in the econ dept.

 

  Yeah, I took a lot of economics courses in my undergrad and minored in it, so that term really stuck with me. For those of you who haven't heard it before, it just means "with everything else held constant".

 

 

Well good to know that they beat it into econ students everywhere and not just here in Texas

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by firesnake77

Originally posted by markoraos

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

 

Wow, this post either confuses me, or reveals the existence of things I never knew about before!

I'm just wondering what all of these awesome roleplaying games were that you were playing BEFORE Dungeons and Dragons?

D&D came out in 1974.  I didn't even know they had RPGs in the 60's.  Please tell us about them!

 

They did not say "before" D&D, they said "other than".  For example GURPS.

 

well, ok great. gurps and rifts came out after dungeons and dragons. which had levels.

so the from what I can tell these were alternate games to d&d.

so essentially, it's six of one/hafl dozen of the other.

some people preferred the later games that experimented with the system and some preferred the original. this is a completely silly argument.

so to that end, any argument that one is better than the other falls under the "ultimate nerd-off" and is NOT something that any of us want to be in.

Seriously. for our souls.

I have no diea what you are talking about because I never bothered to read the argumetns they were throwing around.  Didn't seem to have anything to do with how grindy Aion is.  Plus this whole thread is silly until we get a look at patch 1.5

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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I wouldn't see why not.

 

There is no "one shotting" in AION like other Pvp games. There is no "AOE spam" that kills people in seconds that get people to quit en masse. Since you don't have people losing 3/4 of their life after 2 seconds, it sounds reasonable to assume that you would.

 

I wouldn't think a 45 could actually BEAT a 50 on average, but I'd guess they could hold out long enough until the cavalry arrived depending on class.

 

  Nope, because people beneath you get a ton of maluses (something like -10% chance to hit per level difference); I remember dueling somebody 5 levels above me on my sorce at 15 and lost, because I had a VERY hard time landing spells. Other players have confirmed something around those lines, so I'm not just pulling it entirely out of my ass.

   One-shotting/stun-locking can also happen in Aion, but only by Assassins and Sorcs.

 

 

 

All other things being equal you will get you ass handed to you badly if you are level 45 going against a level 50.  Even with the PvP damage reduction in patch 1.5 it would simply be a matter of taking slighly more time.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by firesnake77

Originally posted by markoraos

Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

 

Wow, this post either confuses me, or reveals the existence of things I never knew about before!

I'm just wondering what all of these awesome roleplaying games were that you were playing BEFORE Dungeons and Dragons?

D&D came out in 1974.  I didn't even know they had RPGs in the 60's.  Please tell us about them!

 

They did not say "before" D&D, they said "other than".  For example GURPS.

 

well, ok great. gurps and rifts came out after dungeons and dragons. which had levels.

so the from what I can tell these were alternate games to d&d.

so essentially, it's six of one/hafl dozen of the other.

some people preferred the later games that experimented with the system and some preferred the original. this is a completely silly argument.

so to that end, any argument that one is better than the other falls under the "ultimate nerd-off" and is NOT something that any of us want to be in.

Seriously. for our souls.

 

I have no diea what you are talking about because I never bothered to read the argumetns they were throwing around.  Didn't seem to have anything to do with how grindy Aion is.  Plus this whole thread is silly until we get a look at patch 1.5

It's in the quotes. started with

Originally posted by markoraos
Well some people still have this outlandish notion that they play games for something other than hoarding gear or whatever "+xyz" or whatever. The oldest and the foggiest of those ancient grognards would even venture that games should primarily provide something called "fun". Yes, I know how crazy it sounds to the D&D/EQ/WoW generation, but there still are people out there remembering RPGs that didn't have any grind in them, and especially no level grind.

To MMO_doubter - leave them be mate.. you can't explain things to kids who think that D&D is the only pen-and-paper RPG system ever made and that "RPG = game with levels". Don't bother, we lost the battle a long time ago, the bad guys won and maybe we should just retire with dignity.

Just because people know of different rpg systems or know of games before wow and eq doesn't mean anything.

Truth be told, before eq there weren't really, in comparison to today, tons of people playing these online games. Then eq comes along and suddenly more people are playing them because it's a bit more accessible. But still not a whole lot. It's not as if anyone I know would be caught dead playing any one of these things. then wow comes along later on and opens it up.

In the end, it's what gets people excited and interested. doesn't matter if it's UO, eq, wow, city of x, Lineage, EVE, Aion. No one system is right or better. Oh sure, people might prefer games to be this and that but in the end who cares. Seriously. That isn't going to get people playing a game that they hate or doesn't  inspire them.

It doesn't matter that there were other games out there and other systems. We are here and now. If people can only relate to wow then that is what they are going to relate to. And it's very possible that they would never have played any of these games if it wasn't for wow.

wow is not a bad game. it does throw out a lot of previous game conventions while streamlining others. it might not be what people like but I think that convincing people that there are other games out there is a moot argument.

And yes, you are right the thread is silly. 1.5 adds quite a bit for players. And that's what we are launching with.

The defense on AION is truly romantic in this thread.

Fans can never be swayed. Even with a TYPE-A korean grinder disguised as a new-gen P2P extravaganza.