Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by Zlayer77

After reading the latest Swedish PC gamer for agust 2009. I stumbled across an artical about The old Republic. Sadly on page 3 Gordon Walton gets quoted for saying this, "We have to ignore the Hardcore players in Star wars the old Rebublic", refering to the players who will ignore the story and mini max their charecters to the TOP. This is one of the most stupidest things I'v heard, he really drops the ball on this one. Expect no working endgame in The old republic.

What Walton fails to realize is that 50% or more of the markets players are going to try and mini max thier charecters. When they find that once the story ends the game has little to offer them. The forum moaning and whining will commence, and the end result of that we have seen before just look at AOC and WAR. No working endgame or a buggy one leads to cancelled subs and mass exodus. Onse TOR gets a bad rep its doomed and no amount of after release fixes will save them.......

Now this is only speculation, they might have a fantastic endgame. But saying you will not suport the hardcore often means the game is lacking in some way. Might be the balance, might be missing content after hitting max level or underdeveloped crafting. Whatever the case is Bioware is setting themself up for a mayor disaster if they ignore the Hardcore players. The reasons for this are simple

1. Hardcore players push games to the limit, they sniff out bugs, imbalances and they show the way for the masses, doing server firsts etc
2. Also the Human psyche with its pack mentality needs people that spearhead, being the best at something. Look at sports if we all could do everything we would not have athletes breaking records and pushing the boundries. This is also true about science, where would we be today without those people??? And take the game Poker for example millions of people would not be playing it if it wernt for the Pro players that show that the game actually involves some skill.
3. Good players are needed to make a game successful, if its just filled with average joes it will not be a thrilling experience.

I think you slightly miss the point.

Firstly, they have said there will be end-game elements like raiding and PvP.

Secondly, you are describing how most MMOs are today. They are more about the destination rather than a journey. Bioware's most games are about journey. Hardcore players are in this manner going to be ignored. I am looking forward to this aspect in MMO.

I also like min-maxing, but to be honest, MMOs could use a little innovation how they handle the journey. Both pen and paper along with  PC RPGs have a lot features that could benefit MMORPGs. The biggest MMO titles, that are DikuMUD-derived, unfortunately ignore many traditional RPG elements.

This will be, by all information so far, a quite different MMORPG. They have even hinted that it will not have a traditional subscription model.

Hardcore also do not translate to "good players", "skilled" or "pro". That is just a fallacy.

 

Thanks for bringing a little logic to this silly topic.  

"Oi Bioware......what is this rubbish? I had to sit through countless minutes of someone saying stuff at me and the whole time whoever it was said..er...wotever it was they were saying......i couldnt hit stuff. Or jump and down. While hitting stuff. I hate your game. And i hate you. And ur family. And stuff......"

"Er.......yeah we did mention time and time again that Bioware is all about the experience and emotional involvement of your  journey through our games, and we're attempting to stick with this ( so far very successful ) formula in the making of our MMO. I think if you know what Bioware is about and have enjoyed any of our previous rpg games to date, then you might have an understanding for what TOR will be and.....er.....hello.....mate....hellooooo....are you listening.........?"

"Spacebar....spacebar....spacebar......ffs look...i told u it doesn't.....oh er.....sorry, wot?"

Originally posted by Zlayer77

After reading the latest Swedish PC gamer for agust 2009. I stumbled across an artical about The old Republic. Sadly on page 3 Gordon Walton gets quoted for saying this, "We have to ignore the Hardcore players in Star wars the old Rebublic", refering to the players who will ignore the story and mini max their charecters to the TOP. This is one of the most stupidest things I'v heard, he really drops the ball on this one. Expect no working endgame in The old republic.

What Walton fails to realize is that 50% or more of the markets players are going to try and mini max thier charecters. When they find that once the story ends the game has little to offer them. The forum moaning and whining will commence, and the end result of that we have seen before just look at AOC and WAR. No working endgame or a buggy one leads to cancelled subs and mass exodus. Onse TOR gets a bad rep its doomed and no amount of after release fixes will save them.......

Now this is only speculation, they might have a fantastic endgame. But saying you will not suport the hardcore often means the game is lacking in some way. Might be the balance, might be missing content after hitting max level or underdeveloped crafting. Whatever the case is Bioware is setting themself up for a mayor disaster if they ignore the Hardcore players. The reasons for this are simple

1. Hardcore players push games to the limit, they sniff out bugs, imbalances and they show the way for the masses, doing server firsts etc True but still not a nececity and what you fail to mention is the way they exploit everything that can be exploited
2. Also the Human psyche with its pack mentality needs people that spearhead, being the best at something. Look at sports if we all could do everything we would not have athletes breaking records and pushing the boundries. This is also true about science, where would we be today without those people???This makes no sense whatsoever, a game should neither be for breaking records, winning money or bragging rights, it should be made so that its a pleasant experience, guess what most MMOS are not. And take the game Poker for example millions of people would not be playing it if it wernt for the Pro players that show that the game actually involves some skill.  People wouldnt play poker unless there were Pros? How fucking dumb can one be, poker has been played for 300 years or so, long before any leagues and such, yes big tournaments and your so called Pros draw attention to the game, but thats about it, people would play poker with or without pros, this is just fucking dumb.
3. Good players are needed to make a game successful, if its just filled with average joes it will not be a thrilling experience. Great another moron comment, ok where did you find this to be true, with your logic every single player RPG sucks, or atleast unless you played it 300 times and read equal amount of guides to be "pro".  An Guess what, people get better the longer they play?! No noobs will be awsome.. but asuming that you are talking about players at endlevel that are better then the "average joe", so fucking what? If you seek idols in a mmo your fucking pathetic and if you whine about your enemies being too good well... same result.

 

My logic tells me this is great news, no grinding involved, less repeating and more fun your 1,2,3,4 arent worth shit to me, sorry but I think their illogical and like in 1 easy to overcome. I mean we have the potential of not just get a mmo with the creators of KotoR but also a mmo based on a storyline which combats grinding heavily. No more standing around some where killing mobs and waiting for them to spawn, no questline look to be made by a 5 year old.. fuck me this game looks better and better every day.

Originally posted by PapaB34R

Originally posted by Zlayer77

After reading the latest Swedish PC gamer for agust 2009. I stumbled across an artical about The old Republic. Sadly on page 3 Gordon Walton gets quoted for saying this, "We have to ignore the Hardcore players in Star wars the old Rebublic", refering to the players who will ignore the story and mini max their charecters to the TOP. This is one of the most stupidest things I'v heard, he really drops the ball on this one. Expect no working endgame in The old republic.

What Walton fails to realize is that 50% or more of the markets players are going to try and mini max thier charecters. When they find that once the story ends the game has little to offer them. The forum moaning and whining will commence, and the end result of that we have seen before just look at AOC and WAR. No working endgame or a buggy one leads to cancelled subs and mass exodus. Onse TOR gets a bad rep its doomed and no amount of after release fixes will save them.......

Now this is only speculation, they might have a fantastic endgame. But saying you will not suport the hardcore often means the game is lacking in some way. Might be the balance, might be missing content after hitting max level or underdeveloped crafting. Whatever the case is Bioware is setting themself up for a mayor disaster if they ignore the Hardcore players. The reasons for this are simple

1. Hardcore players push games to the limit, they sniff out bugs, imbalances and they show the way for the masses, doing server firsts etc True but still not a nececity and what you fail to mention is the way they exploit everything that can be exploited
2. Also the Human psyche with its pack mentality needs people that spearhead, being the best at something. Look at sports if we all could do everything we would not have athletes breaking records and pushing the boundries. This is also true about science, where would we be today without those people???This makes no sense whatsoever, a game should neither be for breaking records, winning money or bragging rights, it should be made so that its a pleasant experience, guess what most MMOS are not. And take the game Poker for example millions of people would not be playing it if it wernt for the Pro players that show that the game actually involves some skill.  People wouldnt play poker unless there were Pros? How fucking dumb can one be, poker has been played for 300 years or so, long before any leagues and such, yes big tournaments and your so called Pros draw attention to the game, but thats about it, people would play poker with or without pros, this is just fucking dumb.
3. Good players are needed to make a game successful, if its just filled with average joes it will not be a thrilling experience. Great another moron comment, ok where did you find this to be true, with your logic every single player RPG sucks, or atleast unless you played it 300 times and read equal amount of guides to be "pro".  An Guess what, people get better the longer they play?! No noobs will be awsome.. but asuming that you are talking about players at endlevel that are better then the "average joe", so fucking what? If you seek idols in a mmo your fucking pathetic and if you whine about your enemies being too good well... same result.

 

 

My logic tells me this is great news, no grinding involved, less repeating and more fun your 1,2,3,4 arent worth shit to me, sorry but I think their illogical and like in 1 easy to overcome. I mean we have the potential of not just get a mmo with the creators of KotoR but also a mmo based on a storyline which combats grinding heavily. No more standing around some where killing mobs and waiting for them to spawn, no questline look to be made by a 5 year old.. fuck me this game looks better and better every day.

 

That was pretty much a knock out punch. Game over for another mindless naysayer.
 

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by joe2119

christ, god forbid an online ROLE PLAYING GAME has a story to it....The entire genre has been polluted and destroyed by grinders and "hardcore" gamers that have no flipping clue what the RPG stands for in MMORPG. Gods speed to SWTOR, hopefully they can bring back the RPG in MMORPG. 

 

You're getting it twisted.

Its the hardcore gamers that give a shit about story and lore.

We do the research, we read the lore and wierd shit off the websites, shit we run the fansites.

Its the casuals that play an hour a day and donlt know shit. Even when I was playing WoW there wasn;t one Hardcore player that I knew that didnt atleast know some of the lore, yet most of the casuals just played the game as there first mmo.

There's nothing wrong with being casual but don;t act like hardcore players are the disease of the genre.

sure some rush to endgame fast but these guys also have multiple alts and they do find enjoyment in the leveling game also.

Fuck dude, I've been playing MMOs when they were actually RPGs not freaking single player games with co-op dungeons like todays mmos.

 

Hilarious.  I think everyone is going off their own version of "hardcore player".  I see what you are saying, and I see what a lot of others are saying.  Basicly some harcroe players do help the game and are a wealth of knowledge, some are just annoying.  At any rate, it is good news that this game will not cater to the hardcore but will cater to the (in my definition) dedicated player.

Dedicated by my definition: Plays a couple hours a night after work, more on the weekends, is probably in a decent progressing guild with a mix of people/play styles, makes it to PvE raids, and participates in PvP.  Has at least a weekly presence in the game and knows enough to be able to get newer players started or through tough spots.

I love it when people talk out of their ass and make themselves look retarded before a game is even in any form of BETA.

From someone who isnt a huge fan of stars wars I'll likely stear clear of this mmo. Not because I dont think it will be good but because I saw a simliar game (lotro) slowly go down hill because the mmo was restricted to stay within the storyline to keep the avid fans happy.  In lotro they added Moria, in which the player does nothing but fight orcs and goblins for 10 levels, not to say some dont enjoy Moria but for me I canceled my sub because I felt lotro would likely follow the same tread in the future to keep tolkien fans happy.

I feel that star wars will have a similar future. Big star wars fans will stick with the game because its star wars but the average gamer like myself will slowly find the world bland and boring because its the same thing over and over and over.

Personally, I'm staying away from books and movies made into MMOs because I dont feel a company can make a world that will live up to them. If I want a star wars or lotro fix I'll read the books or watch the movies, rather then waste my time in an mmo that does nothing but lessen the series.

I get quite tired of the complete obsession with "end game" that some people have. They hurry to the end so they can raid raid raid until their pants fall off. Why? I can't imagine anything more boring. I've been playing EQ2 for about 5 years and have yet to EVER reach the end game, and I've only raided TWICE because there's so much more to do.

How about you try to enjoy the journey? Thats what the game is all about, after all. We don't even know what form the end game will take. I hope to hell it isn't yet more damned aggravating raiding since thats all any of the current games areusing.

What makes a game succesful to me is, when it succeeds in giving me the idea that what i do is making a difference and my achievements are " eternal" .

It is great to go for " firsts" in a MMO; being the first to kill boss X. But it can also be equally awarding to be the best swords crafter, or the hunter with the best bow in game.

Others have different goals: forming a social guild, be the oneto figure out all the stat mechanics, or the one that explores areas 100%.

In my book you can be hardcore and have fun, and achieve anything of the above. These days hardcore has a rather negative tone to it, but being devoted to your hobby isnt always bad.

If hardcore means i have to be online 6 hours + a day to achieve anything, 40 hours + a week, then i am happy SWTOR will not focus on that kind of gameplay.

Originally posted by Manarix

If hardcore means i have to be online 6 hours + a day to achieve anything, 40 hours + a week, then i am happy SWTOR will not focus on that kind of gameplay.

Agreed entirely...

This is exactly what I'm hoping for, an end to the requirement of massive amounts of time and people in the *hope* that you get a pair of gloves this week. That's not end-game content, that's the worst kind of grinding imaginable.

Originally posted by Teala

How many players in WoW are level 80 all ready?  How many players have multiple 80's?   Does this guy really believe in such things as a casual MMORPG gamers?    If you play more than 2hrs a day you are not casual.   I consider a casual MMORPG player as someone that plays between 2-6 hrs a week tops.    That is casual.    Players that play 6+ hrs a week, that is not casual and I would say that those kind of players make up the bulk of WoW's player base and most MMORPG's.   

 I disagree. Casual players play about 2 hours a day 5x a week and about 8 hours on the weekend for a total of 18hrs a week so 0 - 18hrs is casual.

Hardcore players play 4 hours a day 5x a week and 20 hours on the weekend for a total of 40 hours a week. So from 18 - 40 hours a week is the Hrdcore market.

The hardcore market is in the minority.

Originally posted by Ethian

From someone who isnt a huge fan of stars wars I'll likely stear clear of this mmo. Not because I dont think it will be good but because I saw a simliar game (lotro) slowly go down hill because the mmo was restricted to stay within the storyline to keep the avid fans happy.  In lotro they added Moria, in which the player does nothing but fight orcs and goblins for 10 levels, not to say some dont enjoy Moria but for me I canceled my sub because I felt lotro would likely follow the same tread in the future to keep tolkien fans happy.

I feel that star wars will have a similar future. Big star wars fans will stick with the game because its star wars but the average gamer like myself will slowly find the world bland and boring because its the same thing over and over and over.

Personally, I'm staying away from books and movies made into MMOs because I dont feel a company can make a world that will live up to them. If I want a star wars or lotro fix I'll read the books or watch the movies, rather then waste my time in an mmo that does nothing but lessen the series.

 

Unbelievable... I left LOTRO for WoW partly because Moria introduced aliens (Foundations of Stone) and elemental mages (Runekeepers) and yet another ^*%*ing giant tortoise. They also screwed with the timeline by having the dwarves reclaim Moria way before they ought. Turbine mangled the lore and were actually trying to please people like *you*, so it is ironic to read such a post.

They were warned too about failing to please either type of player. Such a pity.

Anyhoo, regarding Star Wars... umm, it is a whole galaxy... you know, far far away. It is not one world, but many star systems. If your disatisfaction with LOTRO was the abundance of orcs and goblins, then I really don't see your point. The creative freedom Star Wars devs have is enormous, especially regarding what we fight. You'll undoubtedly see some orcs even. :) In fact, give me just ONE example of something you would really (really!) want to see in a Star Wars game, but would be prevented by the lore? Magical wands? :)

On topic... some very good posts in this thread. The comments from the developers about hardcore players means (I think) that the kind of player that looks to replace acheivement and purpose in life with a sense of acheivement and purpose from an online game will struggle to find this in TOR. Those who want a strong link between effort and reward (distinction from the rest of the player base) will be unhappy. Heck, a player who even thinks about playing a game as "effort" that needs to be rewarded might find something missing in TOR.

Well, we can hope. :)

Originally posted by Strap

Originally posted by Ethian

From someone who isnt a huge fan of stars wars I'll likely stear clear of this mmo. Not because I dont think it will be good but because I saw a simliar game (lotro) slowly go down hill because the mmo was restricted to stay within the storyline to keep the avid fans happy.  In lotro they added Moria, in which the player does nothing but fight orcs and goblins for 10 levels, not to say some dont enjoy Moria but for me I canceled my sub because I felt lotro would likely follow the same tread in the future to keep tolkien fans happy.

I feel that star wars will have a similar future. Big star wars fans will stick with the game because its star wars but the average gamer like myself will slowly find the world bland and boring because its the same thing over and over and over.

Personally, I'm staying away from books and movies made into MMOs because I dont feel a company can make a world that will live up to them. If I want a star wars or lotro fix I'll read the books or watch the movies, rather then waste my time in an mmo that does nothing but lessen the series.

 

 

Unbelievable... I left LOTRO for WoW partly because Moria introduced aliens (Foundations of Stone) and elemental mages (Runekeepers) and yet another ^*%*ing giant tortoise. They also screwed with the timeline by having the dwarves reclaim Moria way before they ought. Turbine mangled the lore and were actually trying to please people like *you*, so it is ironic to read such a post.

 

They were warned too about failing to please either type of player. Such a pity.

 

Anyhoo, regarding Star Wars... umm, it is a whole galaxy... you know, far far away. It is not one world, but many star systems. If your disatisfaction with LOTRO was the abundance of orcs and goblins, then I really don't see your point. The creative freedom Star Wars devs have is enormous, especially regarding what we fight. You'll undoubtedly see some orcs even. :) In fact, give me just ONE example of something you would really (really!) want to see in a Star Wars game, but would be prevented by the lore? Magical wands? :)

 

On topic... some very good posts in this thread. The comments from the developers about hardcore players means (I think) that the kind of player that looks to replace acheivement and purpose in life with a sense of acheivement and purpose from an online game will struggle to find this in TOR. Those who want a strong link between effort and reward (distinction from the rest of the player base) will be unhappy. Heck, a player who even thinks about playing a game as "effort" that needs to be rewarded might find something missing in TOR.

Well, we can hope. :)

 

 

 

Meh, sounds like another lotro fail story to me...LOL. No end-game? Geared towards casual gamers? Thats what Turbine tried and failed horribly at it. But then again this is a different company so who knows how they'll run it. I do wish star wars the best though, but i won't be fooled into playing it.

It all comes down to how well the company listens to the players. Because if they don't, the population will slowly decrease and it will become just another average mmorpg just as lotro is these days, with the avid fans sucked into the title keeping it running.

I believe there will be a game for the hardcore cuse if every class has it's own story and there are multiple paths to go down in one class then the hardcore will play every single class multiple times.

Also casual is someone who isn't really into games but buysthe odd one or two a year. Casual is someone who doesn't play an mmorpg every week. I mean I have mates who play 1 game a year and I'd call that casual. I have a friend who will play World of Warcraft a couple times a month when he gets the chance to and I think that is casual.

If you're dedicating hours each week to a game then I don't believe that is casual but more moderate gaming. The hardcore is someone who will devote each day to that game.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

Also casual is someone who isn't really into games but buysthe odd one or two a year. Casual is someone who doesn't play an mmorpg every week. I mean I have mates who play 1 game a year and I'd call that casual. I have a friend who will play World of Warcraft a couple times a month when he gets the chance to and I think that is casual.

If you're dedicating hours each week to a game then I don't believe that is casual but more moderate gaming. The hardcore is someone who will devote each day to that game.

Your friend who plays WoW a couple times a month, if he maintains his sub regardless, is not considered casual by development companies - he's considered comatose.  Which, and again I submit this IF he's maintaining his monthly subscription, is the best kind of gamer... doesn't complain, doesn't take hardware resources, keeps the money coming in.  While your definition of hardcore is partially correct, if a bit vague, many people consider themselves casual who do devote a little time each day to play.  Personally, I'm long since past that, as I haven't had any time to "devote" in over 3 years or so.  But I can still log in from time to time, sometimes daily other times weekly, and never for very long, but even when I was able to play nightly week after week I was never a hardcore player.  That definition is usually reserved for people who do everything short of game the system (though many do that as well) to succeed in the game, and is blessedly NOT the target audience for this game.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

After reading the latest Swedish PC gamer for agust 2009. I stumbled across an artical about The old Republic. Sadly on page 3 Gordon Walton gets quoted for saying this, "We have to ignore the Hardcore players in Star wars the old Rebublic", refering to the players who will ignore the story and mini max their charecters to the TOP. This is one of the most stupidest things I'v heard, he really drops the ball on this one. Expect no working endgame in The old republic.

What Walton fails to realize is that 50% or more of the markets players are going to try and mini max thier charecters. When they find that once the story ends the game has little to offer them. The forum moaning and whining will commence, and the end result of that we have seen before just look at AOC and WAR. No working endgame or a buggy one leads to cancelled subs and mass exodus. Onse TOR gets a bad rep its doomed and no amount of after release fixes will save them.......

Now this is only speculation, they might have a fantastic endgame. But saying you will not suport the hardcore often means the game is lacking in some way. Might be the balance, might be missing content after hitting max level or underdeveloped crafting. Whatever the case is Bioware is setting themself up for a mayor disaster if they ignore the Hardcore players. The reasons for this are simple

1. Hardcore players push games to the limit, they sniff out bugs, imbalances and they show the way for the masses, doing server firsts etc
2. Also the Human psyche with its pack mentality needs people that spearhead, being the best at something. Look at sports if we all could do everything we would not have athletes breaking records and pushing the boundries. This is also true about science, where would we be today without those people??? And take the game Poker for example millions of people would not be playing it if it wernt for the Pro players that show that the game actually involves some skill.
3. Good players are needed to make a game successful, if its just filled with average joes it will not be a thrilling experience.

 

No I think the hardcore player will stay in SWG and whine about PRE-NGE till they grow old. So if you want hardcore I think that is the place to be :)

I really wish that the guy who had made the hardcore quote had been a bit more specific about what he actually meant by it.

Hardcore has become one of those silly little labels that people toss around and like to adopt in order to glorify their playstyle and belittle others; it's a meaningless term purely because no two people can actually entirely agree on its meaning.

For me, I'm assuming that the guy was referring to those people who play 40+ hours a week (that's double the playtime of the "average" gamer) and rush through the levelling process to get to the "endgame" content, since TOR is so clearly putting so much effort into enriching the 1-to-whatever segment of the game.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I really wish that the guy who had made the hardcore quote had been a bit more specific about what he actually meant by it.

Hardcore has become one of those silly little labels that people toss around and like to adopt in order to glorify their playstyle and belittle others; it's a meaningless term purely because no two people can actually entirely agree on its meaning.

For me, I'm assuming that the guy was referring to those people who play 40+ hours a week (that's double the playtime of the "average" gamer) and rush through the levelling process to get to the "endgame" content, since TOR is so clearly putting so much effort into enriching the 1-to-whatever segment of the game.

Yes you are right i droped the ball on this one. I did a second post were I said the Idea of this thread was not say that Hardcore is better then casual. But lets face facts 80% of the comunity are in my book hardcore!

Anyone spending 15h plus playing a game each week is hardcore in my book. 15h a week makes 60h a month, that is more then one working week spent playing a  game. And I dont think developers at TOR understand that about 80% of the comunity spend so mush time playing. They will run out of content and people will start complaining.

If Im wrong and I hope that I am there will be no problems. But it will take a massive amount off effort and a really big budget to make a fully voiced over game last more then a Month for the avrage MMO gamer....

I never reroll for example just isent in my play style to have 5+ alts on the same server, so im not interested in playing all the Classes. Many others are like me, we hit the endgame and we stay there. I dont think the developers know what their audiance wants, and they will pay big time when it becomes clear they focused to mush on the ride and not so mush on the END... 

Plus as I have said before Blizzard has 10m subs, Blizzard always focus on the Hardcore first. They have said it countless of times, "we look at our most dedicated players, and we make a game for them, the rest will follow", It has proven to bring them success again and again. Also EvE, that grows year by year focuses on the Most Hardcore players in their game, to ignore your truest fans is just STUPID. For BoiWare to say they wont focus on this means they do not intend to be a serious contender in the MMO market. They have thrown in the towel before it even began....

Im not trying to whine here, Im just pointing out Facts, those games that grow in this genre have a Hardcore mindset, those that fail, try in vain to appeal to a mythical ( it dosent exist) mass of people that they call Casuals. I would go so far as to say that there arn't many people playing MMOS that can be called casuals. Take WAR for example they made Public quest, fast travel to instanced pvp and Easy crafting  all to cater to this mythical creature "the Casual". What happend? they FAILED..... and so will BioWare if they for one instant belive that there is such a thing called a Casual gamer.....

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I really wish that the guy who had made the hardcore quote had been a bit more specific about what he actually meant by it.

Hardcore has become one of those silly little labels that people toss around and like to adopt in order to glorify their playstyle and belittle others; it's a meaningless term purely because no two people can actually entirely agree on its meaning.

For me, I'm assuming that the guy was referring to those people who play 40+ hours a week (that's double the playtime of the "average" gamer) and rush through the levelling process to get to the "endgame" content, since TOR is so clearly putting so much effort into enriching the 1-to-whatever segment of the game.

 

Yes you are right i droped the ball on this one. I did a second post were I said the Idea of this thread was not say that Hardcore is better then casual. But lets face facts 80% of the comunity are in my book hardcore!

Anyone spending 15h plus playing a game each week is hardcore in my book. 15h a week makes 60h a month, that is more then one working week spent playing a  game. And I dont think developers at TOR understand that about 80% of the comunity spend so mush time playing. They will run out of content and people will start complaining.

If Im wrong and I hope that I am there will be no problems. But it will take a massive amount off effort and a really big budget to make a fully voiced over game last more then a Month for the avrage MMO gamer....

I never reroll for example just isent in my play style to have 5+ alts on the same server, so im not interested in playing all the Classes. Many others are like me, we hit the endgame and we stay there. I dont think the developers know what their audiance wants, and they will pay big time when it becomes clear they focused to mush on the ride and not so mush on the END... 

Plus as I have said before Blizzard has 10m subs, Blizzard always focus on the Hardcore first. They have said it countless of times, "we look at our most dedicated players, and we make a game for them, the rest will follow", It has proven to bring them success again and again. Also EvE, that grows year by year focuses on the Most Hardcore players in their game, to ignore your truest fans is just STUPID. For BoiWare to say they wont focus on this means they do not intend to be a serious contender in the MMO market. They have thrown in the towel before it even began....

Im not trying to whine here, Im just pointing out Facts, those games that grow in this genre have a Hardcore mindset, those that fail, try in vain to appeal to a mythical ( it dosent exist) mass of people that they call Casuals. I would go so far as to say that there arn't many people playing MMOS that can be called casuals. Take WAR for example they made Public quest, fast travel to instanced pvp and Easy crafting  all to cater to this mythical creature "the Casual". What happend? they FAILED..... and so will BioWare if they for one instant belive that there is such a thing called a Casual gamer.....

Ive never been that interested with alts really, unless Im considering a class change about 50% or less of the max lvl. Hasnt had any alts in the endgame lvl, ex 80 and 80 for.. err WoW (uhm which I dont play so give me a break) but then again Ive never played a storybased MMO before. I mean sure there were quests but.. well you dont exactly do them because they are fun to, you do it for the exp/rewards, this is what I hope TOR will be different.

I hope and expect a good storyline in same spirit as the KoToR games, with good dialogues, options and fun gameplay. There will be different followers/companions to choose from, each with their own story and interaction/like KotoR and so on, I expect KotoR like functions.

So this game might be short? Well first off all I think I red that the max lvl is 600 or something, itl take years to achieve and if you talk to the dev of TOR they tell you its not meant to either but back on the track. This game will not be just one game Ive come to understand but will be completly different wether you choose a jedi/sith, bounty hunter etc. That means that unlike every other mmo to date with a non existant boring storyline with very similar experiences, ex same npcs, mostly same quests etc TOR will offer a complete new experience, maybe itl be some or all of the former planets and places to be, but with a unique new story line, new npcs, different monologues and options it will be well worth playing with alts because in some remarks its a whole new game.

Maybe Im hoping for too much, it has happened before (AoC for one) but this is what they strive to be and if they keep those promises itl be a mmo in my taste and something definetily worth staying with for years to come.