Originally posted by mlauzon

 

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Originally posted by Samuraisword
Where is the challenge? Do the deer shoot back?

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Obvious troll is obvious! It's a hunting game 'tard!

I cant fucking stand the whole repeating adjectives before and after fad. Say that out loud and you actually sound like the tard.

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Originally posted by Lallante
By "realistic hunting game" do you mean that you play for 8 hours during which you move only small amounts, see maybe 2 deer if you are lucky and shoot 0??

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No, realistic would be when you sit in the deer stand for 8 hours and see nothing so you get down, get in your truck and as soon as you get up to highway speed a deer runs across the road hitting your truck.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

I never killed a virtual animal that didn't fight back and have a chance of killing me.

Rats in EQ1 have killed my character at low levels.

Seriously I don't see a challenge in hunting something that can't fight back or doesn't have a chance. What is the attraction?

Have you ever PK'd someone from stealth, or better yet, ganked a carebear?  They couldn't fight back and didn't have a chance.

Just saying.

Having something like this as a mini game would only work if it did not use traditional MMO mechanics. So stealth and prey AI that could detect LOS would be needed. If you make too much 'noise' or are too clearly in the LOS of the prey, you won't even get near it.

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Samuraisword

I never killed a virtual animal that didn't fight back and have a chance of killing me.

Rats in EQ1 have killed my character at low levels.

Seriously I don't see a challenge in hunting something that can't fight back or doesn't have a chance. What is the attraction?

 

Have you ever PK'd someone from stealth, or better yet, ganked a carebear?  They couldn't fight back and didn't have a chance.

Just saying.

In a PVP environment, stealth and surprise are skills one should expect to be utilized and one should always be on their toes. If the other player isn't paying attention, that is their folly. I don't think carebears choose to play a MMOG with PVP, if they do they get what they deserve.

Of course players hunting players or humans hunting humans is entirely different than a person hunting deer with high powered weapons. Now if you attack a deer with a knife, I would consider that more of an equal footing and a challenge.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

In a PVP environment, stealth and surprise are skills one should expect to be utilized and one should always be on their toes. If the other player isn't paying attention, that is their folly. I don't think carebears choose to play a MMOG with PVP, if they do they get what they deserve.

Of course players hunting players or humans hunting humans is entirely different than a person hunting deer with high powered weapons. Now if you attack a deer with a knife, I would consider that more of an equal footing and a challenge.

So you're cool with bow hunting then? Or maybe atlatl hunting?

Tell me something. Do you eat meat? If so, have you ever seen the inside of a beef or pork slaughter house? There isn't much fair about the way we kill cattle, pigs and chickens. Why do you think you need to be fair with deer, rabbits, squirrel, pheasant, ducks, etc.?

If you think it's a matter of cruelty, then ask yourself this: does the animal die faster from an arrow or a bullet? The faster it dies, the less pain it will experience.

Then again, I don't think you really care. I think you're just a troll flaming for the lulz.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Samuraisword

I never killed a virtual animal that didn't fight back and have a chance of killing me.

Rats in EQ1 have killed my character at low levels.

Seriously I don't see a challenge in hunting something that can't fight back or doesn't have a chance. What is the attraction?

 

Have you ever PK'd someone from stealth, or better yet, ganked a carebear?  They couldn't fight back and didn't have a chance.

Just saying.

In a PVP environment, stealth and surprise are skills one should expect to be utilized and one should always be on their toes. If the other player isn't paying attention, that is their folly. I don't think carebears choose to play a MMOG with PVP, if they do they get what they deserve.

Ah rationalization, lol.   If you killed someone who didn't have a chance, it wasn't challenging.  Whether they are on their toes or deserved it has nothing to do with this discussion. 

I've done it too, don't get me wrong, but I don't fool myself into thinking its challenging. 

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Of course players hunting players or humans hunting humans is entirely different than a person hunting deer with high powered weapons. Now if you attack a deer with a knife, I would consider that more of an equal footing and a challenge.

How is that an equal footing?

If I have to give up the advantages of my species (gunpowder technology, ability to use that rifle, social structure which allows me to obtain a rifle without needing to make it myself), then the deer has to give up the advantages of his species (antlers, hooves, faster running speed). Then we can call it fair.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Originally posted by Samuraisword

In a PVP environment, stealth and surprise are skills one should expect to be utilized and one should always be on their toes. If the other player isn't paying attention, that is their folly. I don't think carebears choose to play a MMOG with PVP, if they do they get what they deserve.

Of course players hunting players or humans hunting humans is entirely different than a person hunting deer with high powered weapons. Now if you attack a deer with a knife, I would consider that more of an equal footing and a challenge.

 

So you're cool with bow hunting then? Or maybe atlatl hunting?

Tell me something. Do you eat meat? If so, have you ever seen the inside of a beef or pork slaughter house? There isn't much fair about the way we kill cattle, pigs and chickens. Why do you think you need to be fair with deer, rabbits, squirrel, pheasant, ducks, etc.?

If you think it's a matter of cruelty, then ask yourself this: does the animal die faster from an arrow or a bullet? The faster it dies, the less pain it will experience.

Then again, I don't think you really care. I think you're just a troll flaming for the lulz.

People in an industrialized nation who claim they hunt in order to put food on the table are being dishonest. Eating the animal is a secondary consideration for hunters. The truth is they hunt because they enjoy the kill. It probably has something to do with asserting power over weaker lifeforms to feel stronger or making up for some timid lifestyle they lead in their everyday boring world where they are submissive sheep. I don't suffer from an inferiority complex so cannot relate.

I eat meat. I understand the process of slaughtering animals. I can kill for my food but I prefer not to. I'd rather pay someone else to do it because it is unpleasant. That doesn't make me a hypocrite or a coward, just practical.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

People in an industrialized nation who claim they hunt in order to put food on the table are being dishonest. Eating the animal is a secondary consideration for hunters. The truth is they hunt because they enjoy the kill. It probably has something to do with asserting power over weaker lifeforms to feel stronger or making up for some timid lifestyle they lead in their everyday boring world where they are submissive sheep. I don't suffer from an inferiority complex so cannot relate.

I eat meat. I understand the process of slaughtering animals. I can kill for my food but I prefer not to. I'd rather pay someone else to do it because it is unpleasant. That doesn't make me a hypocrite or a coward, just practical.

It's true that the vast majority of hunters don't need to hunt for food.  The rest of your post, however, is nothing but petulant insults; things you tell yourself to make yourself feel superior.

I myself hunt primarily because of the way I grew up.  For me it was a part of life.  It had nothing to do with getting a sadistic thrill from killing an animal, it's just something everyone did.  Bragging rights from successfull hunting is a part of it, no doubt about that, but there's nothing wrong with that.  That's been a part of the human experience since the first proto-human thumped something on the head with a club.

People who have never been closely involved in the reality of where their food comes from tend to lack some fundamental understanding of the mindset involved.  There is satisfaction from success but it has never been about getting some thrill from hurting animals.  Killing the animal is simply a necessary part of it that must be accepted.

Let me tell you something about myself.  I grew up on a farm/ranch.  Nearly all of the meat I ate came from animals I either killed myself or which I fed every day.  The beef in my hamburger?  I knew that steer.  I fed him every day while fattening him up before he was slaughtered.  In some cases I bottle fed him when he was a calf, named him, scratched behind his ears and talked to him every day, and then one day he was cut up and put in the freezer.  The bacon I ate for breakfast?  I knew that hog from the time when it was a cute little piglet.  The fried chicken?  I was probably the one who had to rip it's head off before my mom cut it up and fried it.

Putting aside squeemishness and sentimentality was a life lesson I had to learn.  There was never any thrill from killing the animals.  Quite the contrary.  In fact, overcoming that squeemish sentimentality in order to do what was necessary was a fundamental part of maturity in the world I grew up in.  To me, those people who lack the capacity to face and accept this most basic reality have always, and will always, seem childish and stunted because they have never had to face this particular requirement of maturity.  They were coddled and pampered in this respect and never had to face the harsh reality of this aspect of life.

So for me it does seem utterly childish when people get upset over the killing of a wild animal as opposed to domesticated livestock.  It may be true that I don't need the deer meat but if I'm not eating deer meat I'll be eating beef.  Some animal has to die for my meat either way.  People like you get all 'holier than thou' over this subject because you were never required to fully mature.  You view the world from the eyes of a child and reprimand the adults who have learned to accept the reality you never had to learn to accept.

You started being truthful by admitting you don't hunt for necessity of food, which is true for the majority of hunters, but then you backpedal and can't bring yourself  to be honest about enjoying the kill. This is the problem I have with hunters.

Most hunters are not mature enough to be honest about why they hunt. They feel guilty about taking pleasure in the experience and usually fall back on the food or tradition justifications, because they are unwilling to face their dark passion.

Originally posted by Lallante

By "realistic hunting game" do you mean that you play for 8 hours during which you move only small amounts, see maybe 2 deer if you are lucky and shoot 0??

It also means you gotta bring a 6-pack of Hamm's draft beer and an empty jar to piss in while playing
 

Originally posted by Samuraisword

You started being truthful by admitting you don't hunt for necessity of food, which is true for the majority of hunters, but then you backpedal and can't bring yourself  to be honest about enjoying the kill. This is the problem I have with hunters.

Most hunters are not mature enough to be honest about why they hunt. They feel guilty about taking pleasure in the experience and usually fall back on the food or tradition justifications, because they are unwilling to face their dark passion.

 

You talk about things you don't understand and haven't the capacity to understand because you never needed to understand it.  I do enjoy killing the animal because that is how a hunt ends successfully but it's not for a sadistic thrill from killing but rather the success of the hunt that I enjoy.  The killing is simply required for success.  If killing for the thrill of hurting animals is what I was after I could buy animals from a pet store and kill them.  Or deliberately run over dogs and cats with my car.

You eat meat and yet profess to posses some moral high ground because you let other people do the dirty work of killing the animals for you.  You hide from the reality of where your food comes from and look scornfully down your nose at people who don't hide from that reality.  You live in a disney world of fairy-tales and sunshine in which the animals talk and wolves frolic merrily with fawns and piglet and Christopher Robin are the best of friends forever and ever.  And as you sit there chewing your meat you recoil in horror at the thought of someone killing an animal and reasure yourself that you are more evolved and enlightened than those crude barbarians who put that meat on your plate. 

I never claimed to hold a moral high ground for not killing the animals I eat. Killing for food is one thing, but we have already established that most hunters do not kill for necessity of food.

Hunters hunt because they enjoy killing and that is a sickness that requires therapy.

There are fisherman who enjoy the sport of fishing but don't kill the fish they catch, they release them.

Hunters who only enjoy the process of tracking, luring their prey, targeting their prey, could use non lethal weapons such as paint guns and not actually kill the animal.

Regardless of what you say, you are taking the moral high ground, and before you get your panties all in a bunch, I do not hunt and never have because...I do not like guns.

Originally posted by mlauzon

Regardless of what you say, you are taking the moral high ground, and before you get your panties all in a bunch, I do not hunt and never have because...I do not like guns.

Oh I most definitely claim the high moral ground when comparing myself to most hunters who hunt for the pleasure of killing.

I don't claim a higher morality with those few that need to hunt of necessity for food.

I don't need to hunt for meat but I also don't need to buy meat from a store.  You don't need to buy meat from a store or restaraunt either but you do.  If I buy hamburger at a store an animal had to die so I could have that meat.  If I get deer meat from hunting, an animal had to die so I could have that meat.  What's the difference?  The only meaningfull difference for this discussion is that in one case I killed the animal myself and in the other case someone else killed it.

I know you won't understand this but I will tell you that I can kill an animal and feel sorry for the animal while I'm doing it and yet set those feelings aside and do it anyway.  That is the cycle of life which I had to learn but you were sheltered from and never had to learn how to deal with that.  So I can kill a pig which has been almost a pet and regret the necessity, feel some remorse, but do it anyway.  I can hunt and kill a deer and feel happy when I kill one and at the same time feel empathy for the deer.  You can't understand this because you never needed to deal with this reality.  The concept is completely foreign to you.  For you meat is something which magically appears in grocery stores and you are totally disconnected from the reality of where it comes from.

From the viewpoint of the animals, if they could think about, I'm sure they would all prefer to be the wild animal because at least the wild animal has a chance to survive.  The deer has a chance to survive hunting season, the cow or pig or chicken has no chance at all to survive when a human decides it's time has come.