Originally posted by shukes33

I see your point and have heard it many times.

But like what? what tools does a sandbox need? we all say it and say that games dont have it! but what are they meant to have to make it sandbox?

What I think sandbox games need:

• Something to fight over that gives you a certain advantage if you have and disadvantage if you dont have. That could be valuable quest spots, leveling grounds or resource spots for creating powerful crafted items
• Sense of continual advancement. Sandbox games should not hit a plateu where you can no longer effectively develop your character or guild. If it does then it will be just turn into an FPS game where you fight just for the sake of fighting and you might as well play an FPS.
• An economy. Yes, it is quite important for a sandbox to have a working economy so you can craft and trade for the items that you need. Eve is a good example of that.
• Valuable resource of some sort. There needs to be a resource which gives you a tanglible reward, for example in crafting items, that creates hot spots where guilds fight to gain control and gives purpose to the fighting and at the same time keeps the economy alive by fueling it with "currency".

Sandbox games cannot be an empty 3D engine that you just run around and kill each other, that's an FPS game.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by shukes33

I see your point and have heard it many times.

But like what? what tools does a sandbox need? we all say it and say that games dont have it! but what are they meant to have to make it sandbox?

 

What I think sandbox games need:

• Something to fight over that gives you a certain advantage if you have and disadvantage if you dont have. That could be valuable quest spots, leveling grounds or resource spots for creating powerful crafted items
• Sense of continual advancement. Sandbox games should not hit a plateu where you can no longer effectively develop your character or guild. If it does then it will be just turn into an FPS game where you fight just for the sake of fighting and you might as well play an FPS.
• An economy. Yes, it is quite important for a sandbox to have a working economy so you can craft and trade for the items that you need. Eve is a good example of that.
• Valuable resource of some sort. There needs to be a resource which gives you a tanglible reward, for example in crafting items, that creates hot spots where guilds fight to gain control and gives purpose to the fighting and at the same time keeps the economy alive by fueling it with "currency".

Sandbox games cannot be an empty 3D engine that you just run around and kill each other, that's an FPS game.

 

1: like a citty with it's own mines and harvestable points which darkfall has. if you dont own a citty you have to brave the wilds and the pkers.

2: All you ever seem to do in DF is get skill hits and gain extra skills/spells. Once we all hit the cap i'm not sure. but AV have plenty of time to add before then.

3: Economy is rife in DF! seems to be a major passtime for most. there are so many crafters that dont ever seem to get out and fight...which is good ( i think :) )

4: In city mines you get higher/rarer ores etc that you cant harvest in the wilds. these are needed for the top end crafting items ( could be wrong ther though as i'm not 100%. Please verify if anyone knows for sure )

Just complementing, sandboxes need to stimulate character individuality and value. If you do not invest in combat skills, you probably have other abilities that can make you desirable in other circumstances. You could be a dagger demon, a sword and board specialist, a lancer, a skirmisher, a pickpocket, a pyromancer, a meek alchemist, a tailor, etc, etc. This variety creates a believable world (within certain parameters) that nurtures diversity, player interaction and, ultimately, fun.

Originally posted by StrixMaxima

Just complementing, sandboxes need to stimulate character individuality and value. If you do not invest in combat skills, you probably have other abilities that can make you desirable in other circumstances. You could be a dagger demon, a sword and board specialist, a lancer, a skirmisher, a pickpocket, a pyromancer, a meek alchemist, a tailor, etc, etc. This variety creates a believable world (within certain parameters) that nurtures diversity, player interaction and, ultimately, fun.

I agree this is where DF fails for me. there is too much of the power route to the top and not enough diversity. i would love to be a bow specialist for instance, but everyone is and theres no skills in it. Or pure casters etc.

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Originally posted by shukes33
I see your point and have heard it many times.
But like what? what tools does a sandbox need? we all say it and say that games dont have it! but what are they meant to have to make it sandbox?

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There is no definite answer for this since there is no single way how to make a player living world.

Let's put it in following question: How many people has to be involved to obtain some basic and advanced equippment? How many people do you need so you can 'exist' in DF?

yes i see!

in Darkfall you can survive alone as crafting etc is available to everyone. this doesnt promote community, though as i understand you rely on other crafts to make the higher end items. but then again you could just grind these yourself to make them too.

you couldnt hold a city alone either!

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Originally posted by shukes33
yes i see!
in Darkfall you can survive alone as crafting etc is available to everyone. this doesnt promote community, though as i understand you rely on other crafts to make the higher end items. but then again you could just grind these yourself to make them too.
you couldnt hold a city alone either!

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Imho, Darkfall might have neccessary attributes to make a sandbox game but their implementation is bad or the mechanics are not working as they should.

It is still the game where you go, grind mobs for equippment and you are ready to go.

Originally posted by StrixMaxima

Just complementing, sandboxes need to stimulate character individuality and value. If you do not invest in combat skills, you probably have other abilities that can make you desirable in other circumstances. You could be a dagger demon, a sword and board specialist, a lancer, a skirmisher, a pickpocket, a pyromancer, a meek alchemist, a tailor, etc, etc. This variety creates a believable world (within certain parameters) that nurtures diversity, player interaction and, ultimately, fun.

+1...

This is what made the original Star Wars Galaxies a sandbox...

Originally posted by Vyeth

Originally posted by StrixMaxima

Just complementing, sandboxes need to stimulate character individuality and value. If you do not invest in combat skills, you probably have other abilities that can make you desirable in other circumstances. You could be a dagger demon, a sword and board specialist, a lancer, a skirmisher, a pickpocket, a pyromancer, a meek alchemist, a tailor, etc, etc. This variety creates a believable world (within certain parameters) that nurtures diversity, player interaction and, ultimately, fun.

 

+1...

This is what made the original Star Wars Galaxies a sandbox...

The original SWG was the most fun i have had in any mmo, ever. Easily  the most positive experience, ok it had a lot of issues, broken classes etc, but the essence of the game was awesome, do what you want but beware, there might be consequences.

I suppose you can classify DF as a sandbox, but it's a big box with very few grains of sand as opposed to SWG which was a big-ass box overflowing with the stuff.

Originally posted by Hammertime1

Originally posted by dembar

if your stupid enough to mine STONE for ages and then even managed to get killed, this game is not for you.

 

 

 

And that's just the attitude to help retain players in the game.

Hehe, DF is so hardcore, the PvP spreads out of the game and into the forums... hes red now, GET HIM!

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Hammertime1

Originally posted by dembar

if your stupid enough to mine STONE for ages and then even managed to get killed, this game is not for you.

 

 

 

And that's just the attitude to help retain players in the game.

Hehe, DF is so hardcore, the PvP spreads out of the game and into the forums... hes red now, GET HIM!

This game can only be played in one manner, the way the DF fanboys play.  Any attempt to play in any manner calls for immediate banning.  Great sandbox game indeed.

/pun intended.

Originally posted by shukes33

Wow i think i have just experienced what they call "nerdrage " haha!

Yes, yes you did. However if you run his rant through Babelfish you get:

"My God, I can't believe I suck so bad at Darkfall that even my grandmother could pwn me -- and she's been six feet under for the past ten years. I will therefore act like a drama queen and proclaim to the masses my astionishment that anyone could actually like the game. Hopefully that will distract people enough that they won't notice I'm having a temper tantrum becuase things didn't turn out the way I wanted them to."

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by shukes33

Wow i think i have just experienced what they call "nerdrage " haha!

Yes, yes you did. However if you run his rant through Babelfish you get:

"My God, I can't believe I suck so bad at Darkfall that even my grandmother could pwn me -- and she's been six feet under for the past ten years. I will therefore act like a drama queen and proclaim to the masses my astionishment that anyone could actually like the game. Hopefully that will distract people enough that they won't notice I'm having a temper tantrum becuase things didn't turn out the way I wanted them to."

If you run this rant through Babelfish you get :

" You aint hardcore enough newb! Go back to WoW carebear. ..ect. "

Originally posted by SlyLoK

If you run this rant through Babelfish you get :

" You aint hardcore enough newb! Go back to WoW carebear. ..ect. "

I would NEVER tell someone to go back to WoW. That's just mean. It would be nicer just cutting their heart out.

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Originally posted by cfurlin

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Originally posted by SlyLoK

If you run this rant through Babelfish you get :
" You aint hardcore enough newb! Go back to WoW carebear. ..ect. "

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I would NEVER tell someone to go back to WoW. That's just mean. It would be nicer just cutting their heart out.

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See what PvP is like if you sub to DF (not play DF).  If you pay sub to DF, you go afk macroing in the bloodwall, then you come here and talk big boy as if you are something important.
Oh well DF pretends to be a game it is not, and DF gamers pretends to be bigger than what they actually are.  Hurray!

Originally posted by biohacker

I am going to go out of limb and claim that DFO is possibly the worse game I played in my life (25+ years of gaming). The game design and implementation is so horrific that it will probably go into annals of gaming history at the very bottom. I should have listened to all the bad reviews, but had to see it for myself to believe how bad a game can be.... what I still can't believe is that  how anyone continue to play this crap that should get minus rating -- if such thing was possible ......  

It is nice to see people that have a lot of gaming experance calling out this game for eaxctly what it is.

Worse thing is, if you accually make the (bad) decision to buy and you realise in about 10 mins (and yes, most people that have played a lot of mmorpgs can tell it is shit in 10 mins) you are fucked, 43 euros down the drian, there is a good reason they dont have a trial, because noone would buy it.

Originally posted by daarco

But were you see emty terrain i see possible epic battles, ambushes, safe routes besides dangerous areas and good hiding places if hunted.

Pretending doesnt cut it. if it isnt there it doesnt exist. LOL

I am interested to try this game, if anyone has an account they aren't re-subbing will appreciate if they let me give this a try

please email the account to wiznuke@bigpond.net.au, thanks.

Originally posted by biohacker

I am going to go out of limb and claim that DFO is possibly the worse game I played in my life (25+ years of gaming). The game design and implementation is so horrific that it will probably go into annals of gaming history at the very bottom. I should have listened to all the bad reviews, but had to see it for myself to believe how bad a game can be.... what I still can't believe is that  how anyone continue to play this crap that should get minus rating -- if such thing was possible ......  

You have 100% not played this game your OBVIOUS TROLL/HATER again make pathetic topics claim Darkfall is horrid what a joke you are.

Why you come here is beyond me did they force you to act like a TROLL/HATER payed by some site or magazine to mash down Darkfall?

DARKFALL is a SUPERB free for all FULL LOOT PVP mmo.

Or you are a carebear frustrated that game is just to difficult and hardcore for you ?

25YEARS of gaming omg your kidding right your topic sounds like you just started gaming becouse of your age:P

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by biohacker

I am going to go out of limb and claim that DFO is possibly the worse game I played in my life (25+ years of gaming). The game design and implementation is so horrific that it will probably go into annals of gaming history at the very bottom. I should have listened to all the bad reviews, but had to see it for myself to believe how bad a game can be.... what I still can't believe is that  how anyone continue to play this crap that should get minus rating -- if such thing was possible ......  

 

You have 100% not played this game your OBVIOUS TROLL/HATER again make pathetic topics claim Darkfall is horrid what a joke you are.

Why you come here is beyond me did they force you to act like a TROLL/HATER payed by some site or magazine to mash down Darkfall?

DARKFALL is a SUPERB free for all FULL LOOT PVP mmo.

Or you are a carebear frustrated that game is just to difficult and hardcore for you ?

25YEARS of gaming omg your kidding right your topic sounds like you just started gaming becouse of your age:P

Well I will throw in my 15+ years of gaming experience into the mix then. I agree that DFO isn't great. It had/has some great ideas but very poor implementation. It is a mediocre Full Loot FFA PvP game due to the lack of much of anything else besides the FFA PvP and full loot. The full loot and FFA PvP itself are even very lack luster because while the combat system was a step in the right direction they seemed to decide not to finish it, and the Full Loot doesn't feel meaningful in the least (Where it has in other Full Loot FFA PvP games), The combats problem is while the game pretty much feels like an open arena style FPS game the weapons you get are very few. Melee you basically get 3 weapons, all have the exact same abilities. One is short, one is medium the other is long thats about the main distinction. There are other weapons but what do they do? What other significant difference is there besides there range? Why do they all have the exact same specials? Why can you use knockback with a dagger?? The implementation of many of the mechanics truly was horrible.

As far as Carebear:

Bloodwall: Carebear

AFK play: Carebear

Protected from repricussions while ninja looting: Carebear

Running in groups of 5-10+ to kill solo players harvesting or PvE'ing: Carebear

Making it so everyone is the same (Everyone can pick up any skill regardless of how many skills they have or what other skills they have, every has basically the same class): Carebear

Making the only penalty for dieing in a FFA PvP game is losing items and gear when those items and gear are easily replaced in no time at all: Carebear

Making it so PK's don't have any real penalties so the life of a PK is more attractive to lesser skilled players: Carebear 

PvP in DFO is made for Carebears in a way. It's like an introduction to FFA PvP and full loot done many years to late. In other MMO's it sucked to lose a fight, it hurt in some way that isn't the case in DFO at least not for me. There isn't that lasting sting from dying you get in many FFA PvP MMO's and it should be there with the full loot. If I was killed it's like it didn't matter in the least. If I killed them it still didn't matter in the least.

The only way I can see DFO becoming a true PvP game at this point is by adding Perma Death. While I usualy feel it is over kill in other MMO's, I believe DFO may be the only MMO out there that could benefit for it. Adding perma death would be a garunteed way to get me to resub at least and it just may be the thing to bring the PvP'rs back to DFO.

And you know I have played the game.

In any case, just because you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean he's a troll. I agree with some of what he said myself.