I used to be a fan of the idea of an MMORPG.. living an alternate life, competing with other people, making friends etc.. Somehow I stumbled onto playing muds, the first mud I played was gemstone 3.. I even paid for it. But right away I could see something was missing. I went out looking for more "realism". I started playing RPI(Roleplay intensive)'s like armageddon and SoI(shadows of isulder). But found them to depend too healivy on "roleplay", often without being backed up by code.

I don't know how I managed to stumble on here but I saw something that confirmed what I've known all along.. the genre sucks. But I too have searched for that one game that might keep me interested but they're just a bunch of clones, all about the next level, a rat race to the "final level".

To me.. this just seems to be what kills the genre in the fist place.. this... power levelling. Its just a matter of who can log the most hours and get the L337est shit. And it doesn't matter if you die, you might lose some *gasp* exp but thats it.

I think the WHOLE genre needs to be redefined, or even a new one created from the ashes. What if MMORPG's were real? What if when you died you lost EVERYTHING, no respawning, nothing. I think this would definately up the adrenaline of trying to survive. What if it wasen't who loggest the most hours and got the best levels? As theres always an end level.. and when you reach it theres nowhere else to go, this is what put me off fallout3.

Im talking about realistic MMORPGS. Permadeath, unrestricted PVP, everything. If this exists please show it to me. I say games should still have skill levels, but not on such a greater scale as games like WoW. Higher levels are grandiously overpowered. Enough of the crappiest guys should be able to take down the most powerful, as a matter of balance. And as for dying, when you die you lose everything, this makes the aim of the game to survive, as it should be, and not killing endless monsters with little penalty for death.

IS there anyone out there who wants a realistic, roleplaying-intensive, permadeath MMORPG?

Sounds like you should be playing games like darkfall, vanguard, ffxi, and eve.

life must suck as a retard

permadeath? what if everytime you died in mario you had to start from the beginning? Id be seeing goombas in my nightmares. Big game developers just need to get their shiz together and come up with niche mmorpgs that address specific things that people are looking for. Fury was a great example because there was no leveling and towards the end, gear was instantly obtained when you started. a PVP mmo where everyone was on the same page from the beginning. You played for fun and the advancement of skills and you chose what skills to make your character up with. If we could get something like that again id be happy.

I play mmo's to enjoy a game not to be ULTRA INTENSIVE UBER guy with no life. I have real life to take care of my need of perma death and penalties.

Originally posted by almerel

I play mmo's to enjoy a game not to be ULTRA INTENSIVE UBER guy with no life. I have real life to take care of my need of perma death and penalties.

MMO's need to be more casual and easy. The "hardcore" players are the minority of the market so their not that important anyway.

Originally posted by Jacobeli

life must suck as a retard

permadeath? what if everytime you died in mario you had to start from the beginning? Id be seeing goombas in my nightmares. Big game developers just need to get their shiz together and come up with niche mmorpgs that address specific things that people are looking for. Fury was a great example because there was no leveling and towards the end, gear was instantly obtained when you started. a PVP mmo where everyone was on the same page from the beginning. You played for fun and the advancement of skills and you chose what skills to make your character up with. If we could get something like that again id be happy.

Well thats just stupid.. mario is a platform game. And im not saying it has to be uber and intense, thats the whole point. The only reason its like that is because thats the direction the genre has taken. Which is wrong.

I'm just saying games these days focus too much on levelling, and over reward power leveling.

Originally posted by Syphex_7

I used to be a fan of the idea of an MMORPG.. living an alternate life, competing with other people, making friends etc.. Somehow I stumbled onto playing muds, the first mud I played was gemstone 3.. I even paid for it. But right away I could see something was missing. I went out looking for more "realism". I started playing RPI(Roleplay intensive)'s like armageddon and SoI(shadows of isulder). But found them to depend too healivy on "roleplay", often without being backed up by code.

I don't know how I managed to stumble on here but I saw something that confirmed what I've known all along.. the genre sucks. But I too have searched for that one game that might keep me interested but they're just a bunch of clones, all about the next level, a rat race to the "final level".

To me.. this just seems to be what kills the genre in the fist place.. this... power levelling. Its just a matter of who can log the most hours and get the L337est shit. And it doesn't matter if you die, you might lose some *gasp* exp but thats it.

I think the WHOLE genre needs to be redefined, or even a new one created from the ashes. What if MMORPG's were real? What if when you died you lost EVERYTHING, no respawning, nothing. I think this would definately up the adrenaline of trying to survive. What if it wasen't who loggest the most hours and got the best levels? As theres always an end level.. and when you reach it theres nowhere else to go, this is what put me off fallout3.

Im talking about realistic MMORPGS. Permadeath, unrestricted PVP, everything. If this exists please show it to me. I say games should still have skill levels, but not on such a greater scale as games like WoW. Higher levels are grandiously overpowered. Enough of the crappiest guys should be able to take down the most powerful, as a matter of balance. And as for dying, when you die you lose everything, this makes the aim of the game to survive, as it should be, and not killing endless monsters with little penalty for death.

IS there anyone out there who wants a realistic, roleplaying-intensive, permadeath MMORPG?

There are many reasons why such a MMORPG would never succeed.

Lag being one of them.

Originally posted by Syphex_7

Im talking about realistic MMORPGS. Permadeath, unrestricted PVP, everything. If this exists please show it to me.

A very LOOOONG time ago there was this MMORPG in development (I think it was Horizions) which had both HEAVY roleplaying, fully open PvP and Permadeath. It never made it to release in its original design. It changed hands serveral times I think and each time the developer changed the new developer would alter the game design a great deal. In the end the game that finally got released was not even close to the game that was originally hyped. It was just another run-of-the-mill treadmill grind fest.

As far as I'm aware the idea of "permadeath" is just a theory. I can't name a single game that has actually used it. Well...

Except for Star Wars Combine. But I'm not going to recommend THAT game to anyone. I first started playing because I hoped it would be like the original SWG. And it kind of was. But sadly all the major faction leaders in the game are also admins of the game itself and they treat the game like their own personal playground. They remind me of this girl who lived next door to me when I was a kid. She would make up these games for us to play in her yard but she would change the rules in the middle of the game whenever she was about to lose. The admins of SWC are the same way. They play the game the way they like and think everyone else should play by their rules too.

Sadly, this has been my experience with all browser based and MUD games. Either the admins are arrogant asshats who ignore the players or they are micro-managing asshats who hover over everyone and ban the crap out of those that won't play by their imaginary unwritten rules.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Syphex_7

Im talking about realistic MMORPGS. Permadeath, unrestricted PVP, everything. If this exists please show it to me.

 

A very LOOOONG time ago there was this MMORPG in development (I think it was Horizions) which had both HEAVY roleplaying, fully open PvP and Permadeath. It never made it to release in its original design. It changed hands serveral times I think and each time the developer changed the new developer would alter the game design a great deal. In the end the game that finally got released was not even close to the game that was originally hyped. It was just another run-of-the-mill treadmill grind fest.

As far as I'm aware the idea of "permadeath" is just a theory. I can't name a single game that has actually used it. Well...

Except for Star Wars Combine. But I'm not going to recommend THAT game to anyone. I first started playing because I hoped it would be like the original SWG. And it kind of was. But sadly all the major faction leaders in the game are also admins of the game itself and they treat the game like their own personal playground. They remind me of this girl who lived next door to me when I was a kid. She would make up these games for us to play in her yard but she would change the rules in the middle of the game whenever she was about to lose. The admins of SWC are the same way. They play the game the way they like and think everyone else should play by their rules too.

Sadly, this has been my experience with all browser based and MUD games. Either the admins are arrogant asshats who ignore the players or they are micro-managing asshats who hover over everyone and ban the crap out of those that won't play by their imaginary unwritten rules.

Horizons is now called istaria i saw some threads about it in the forum.It is alive you can get a free demo account and can only human but upgrade to subscription.14day free trial is also available so if you still want to see it search the forum i forgot the site :o

Mortal Online may meet your criteria only if you consider permadeath as dying, losing all of your stuff and then basically starting all over (but you still have your skills and other stuff in the bank or w/e).

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by almerel

I play mmo's to enjoy a game not to be ULTRA INTENSIVE UBER guy with no life. I have real life to take care of my need of perma death and penalties.

 

MMO's need to be more casual and easy. The "hardcore" players are the minority of the market so their not that important anyway.

I totally disagree with you.   The Hardcore players are just as important as the casuals.   After all we were around when MMO's first started and they all took up a lot of time to get things done.   While some of us have went the more casual route (which is fine) the ones that still like the old style gaming really have nothing to play. We have already played the game for years or we tried it and ended up not liking it.

There are tons of casual games out there, someone has to make a game that takes like a year of playing just to get to max, I don't care if there is one server and 3k people playing max, Im fine with that.  All these casual games just are all lacking depth IMHO and I can't stand to play them for an extended period of time.  They are all about soloing and grouping up to get the uber gear which anyone with enough time on their hands and the ability to run an instance 1 million times can have the best gear.

I sure hope FFXIV isn't to casual hopefully its a nice mix between solo and grouping and hopefully it will be the next standard for MMO's and not freaking WoW.

Edit:   Also WTF does Hardcore even mean?  is it because I like max level to be something that not many people can accomplish in a game? Is it the harsh death penalties? Is it because I play a lot?

Don't hate on people that play videogames a lot,  I have a ton of time to play games because I don't watch tv, and do other things or maybe get less sleep. I play guitar and play videogames and thats about it video games are taking the backseat because im in a band now. But I still have quite a lot of time to play them and would still be considered "Hardcore"  by some people.

You casuals can make time for video games too if you wanted so no need to complain about it, If I can do it so can you.  I still make it to work on time and do other things I enjoy and still have enough time to play games for a 4 or more hour period. Its just there are no games out that I haven't already played for 3 years that are worth playing.

Originally posted by Syphex_7

I used to be a fan of the idea of an MMORPG.. living an alternate life, competing with other people, making friends etc.. Somehow I stumbled onto playing muds, the first mud I played was gemstone 3.. I even paid for it. But right away I could see something was missing. I went out looking for more "realism". I started playing RPI(Roleplay intensive)'s like armageddon and SoI(shadows of isulder). But found them to depend too healivy on "roleplay", often without being backed up by code.

I don't know how I managed to stumble on here but I saw something that confirmed what I've known all along.. the genre sucks. But I too have searched for that one game that might keep me interested but they're just a bunch of clones, all about the next level, a rat race to the "final level".

To me.. this just seems to be what kills the genre in the fist place.. this... power levelling. Its just a matter of who can log the most hours and get the L337est shit. And it doesn't matter if you die, you might lose some *gasp* exp but thats it.

I think the WHOLE genre needs to be redefined, or even a new one created from the ashes. What if MMORPG's were real? What if when you died you lost EVERYTHING, no respawning, nothing. I think this would definately up the adrenaline of trying to survive. What if it wasen't who loggest the most hours and got the best levels? As theres always an end level.. and when you reach it theres nowhere else to go, this is what put me off fallout3.

Im talking about realistic MMORPGS. Permadeath, unrestricted PVP, everything. If this exists please show it to me. I say games should still have skill levels, but not on such a greater scale as games like WoW. Higher levels are grandiously overpowered. Enough of the crappiest guys should be able to take down the most powerful, as a matter of balance. And as for dying, when you die you lose everything, this makes the aim of the game to survive, as it should be, and not killing endless monsters with little penalty for death.

IS there anyone out there who wants a realistic, roleplaying-intensive, permadeath MMORPG?

Welcome to mmorpg.com!

First off let me say that i've NEVER heard of Mud...or gemstone...shadows of isulder(LOTR game?? )and what the hell is armageddon?...

you need to play some of the more common mmorpg's...like wow, darkfall, eve online, dark age of camelot maybe? guild wars? maybe even warhammer?

PLEASE for your own sake, play a few GOOD mmorpg's and THEN make a conclusion about this ever expanding genre.

I miss Asheron's Call. If it weren't for the dated graphics, and the auto attack AC would be perfect. AC has the best skill system, PVP, and death penalties. No it's not permadeath, but you do lose your most expensive stuff when you die. They've wussed out over the years and made some things either bindable or so low in value that it never drops, but it used to be that you could count on having to make corpse runs pretty much naked.

No one wants difficulty anymore, they want a glorified chat room with epic loots and big shiny shoulderpads.

So yeah, I agree MMORPGs suck. Since AC it's been all downhill.

Originally posted by Predator160

First off let me say that i've NEVER heard of Mud...or gemstone...shadows of isulder(LOTR game?? )and what the hell is armageddon?...

you need to play some of the more common mmorpg's...like wow, darkfall, eve online, dark age of camelot maybe? guild wars? maybe even warhammer?

PLEASE for your own sake, play a few GOOD mmorpg's and THEN make a conclusion about this ever expanding genre.

Listen kid, if you don't know what a MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) is then you are WAYYYYY to young to be insulting this guy or giving him advice on what games to play. He was probably playing games back when you were just a twinkle in the eye of two teenagers in the back seat of a car.

My thought is if all MMO's suck maybe you should find a new genre or a new hobby.  We all have a preferences as what we like to play but if you can find none then that speaks more to you than it does the genre.  It seems odd to me that you have been playing RPG games all this time while thinking they suck.

---

Originally posted by Jacobeli
permadeath? what if everytime you died in mario you had to start from the beginning? Id be seeing goombas in my nightmares.

---

It's more like if Mario was 300+ hours of gameplay to beat it and dying meant starting from scratch. Oldschool Marios were so short that even if you died on the last boss it was only like an hour or two you might've lost (if that.)

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Predator160

First off let me say that i've NEVER heard of Mud...or gemstone...shadows of isulder(LOTR game?? )and what the hell is armageddon?...

you need to play some of the more common mmorpg's...like wow, darkfall, eve online, dark age of camelot maybe? guild wars? maybe even warhammer?

PLEASE for your own sake, play a few GOOD mmorpg's and THEN make a conclusion about this ever expanding genre.

 

Listen kid, if you don't know what a MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) is then you are WAYYYYY to young to be insulting this guy or giving him advice on what games to play. He was probably playing games back when you were just a twinkle in the eye of two teenagers in the back seat of a car.

First off I wasn't insaulting OP...i meant no offense...

OP hasn't played enough mmo's to make this assumption that all mmo's suck.

that would be like assuming ice cream is bad because you think yogurt is distastefull. (not the best anology but im eating icecream right now)

I've been playing this genre for 10 years back to original EQ and i have never heard of any of those mmo's he mentioned.

you can't make an such a large generalization mmo's if you've only played browser based games. or one's from 1975...

Originally posted by Predator160

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Predator160

First off let me say that i've NEVER heard of Mud...or gemstone...shadows of isulder(LOTR game?? )and what the hell is armageddon?...

you need to play some of the more common mmorpg's...like wow, darkfall, eve online, dark age of camelot maybe? guild wars? maybe even warhammer?

PLEASE for your own sake, play a few GOOD mmorpg's and THEN make a conclusion about this ever expanding genre.

 

Listen kid, if you don't know what a MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) is then you are WAYYYYY to young to be insulting this guy or giving him advice on what games to play. He was probably playing games back when you were just a twinkle in the eye of two teenagers in the back seat of a car.

First off I wasn't insaulting OP...i meant no offense...

OP hasn't played enough mmo's to make this assumption that all mmo's suck.

that would be like assuming ice cream is bad because you think yogurt is distastefull. (not the best anology but im eating icecream right now)

I've been playing this genre for 10 years back to original EQ and i have never heard of any of those mmo's he mentioned.

you can't make an such a large generalization mmo's if you've only played browser based games. or one's from 1975...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the OP's profile he is 19 years old. Couple that with the fact he has new account and you have it.  He may have played a ton of games in his ripe old age but i doubt it. We have been trolled.

Originally posted by Syphex_7

I think the WHOLE genre needs to be redefined, or even a new one created from the ashes.

I think this is one of the most important reasons mmorpg.com exist.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Predator160

[TL;DR summary of this post: Predator still doesn't have any idea what a MUD is but still thinks he has a right to tell everyone else what to do.]

According to the OP's profile he is 19 years old. Couple that with the fact he has new account and you have it.  He may have played a ton of games in his ripe old age but i doubt it. We have been trolled.

Everyone lies when websites ask them their real age. Everyone who is smart anyway. I NEVER reveal RL information about myself over the internet for security reasons and I have a fake birth date which I provide to any website that asks for one. This has proved to be a very good thing for me on more than one occasion. The OP of this thread may be the same way and if he is then he is even smarter than I gave him credit for. He could be a troll too but I'm not sure what the point of trolling by saying stuff thats totally ture would be.

Predator, you STILL do not know what a MUD is! Its NOT an MMO! If you have no cule what something is then you shouldn't be commenting on it! As the old saying goes: "Better to remain silent and let everyone think you are a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt."