The stock market..wait what 9000!?

ITS OVER 9000!!!!

Saw this on another site:

01/20/2009... Closing numbers after Obama's first day in office...

Dow Jones --> 7,949.09
NASDAQ --> 1,440.86
S&P 500 --> 805.22

07/20/2009... Closing numbers exactly six months after Obama's first day in office...

Dow Jones --> 8,848.15
NASDAQ --> 1,909.29
S&P 500 --> 951.13

Percentage gained after 6 months in office...

Dow Jones --> 11.31%
NASDAQ --> 32.51%
S&P 500 --> 18.12%

Annualized rate of return

Dow Jones --> 22.62%
NASDAQ --> 65.02%
S&P 500 --> 36.24%

I think the Chinese market shows what little of what Obama did affected the market.  When you are looking at an 88% jump since its low last year in the Hang Sang verse a 37% rise from the Dow Jones you can clearly see a greater rebound in foriegn markets.

The recession, which is more like a depression, isn't over. New-home sales may have reached a bottom in some areas, but foreclosures continue and the prime mortgage market has only begun it's collapse. Housing STILL hasn't reached an equilibrium with wages. Etc. The stock market does not reflect reality anymore.

No it is not over.  Not even close.   Foreclosures are still on the rise, personal credit card debt is through the roof(this bubble will burst soon), most companies are still realing from the first part of the recession and there is no sign of much growth(people still being laid of and no one is hiring).   Nope.   It's not over.    Because we still have to deal with national debt.   The US budget deficit is still growing.    So no...the recession is not over yet.   Stay tuned though.   Maybe in another year or two.   ^_^

Deficits and recessions don't necessarily depend on each other.

The U.S. had a deficit many times while not being in or on the way to a recession. Just because the budget deficit is still growing doesn't signal the recession isn't over.

Foreclosures are on the rise because of lagging job growth; over 60% of foreclosures are a result of medical bills (you can look that up), and job growth always lags behind recovery anyways. Job growth does not signal a recovery.

When the average person finally sees job growth through posted statistics, that's long after the actual "recovery" took place. Kind of like when someone tells you to buy X stock because its rising, that means most of the money is usually already made and you are way behind the curve.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by popinjay

According to Newsweek, the recession is showing strong signs of being over with homes sales climbing up and stocks strong.

 

Which article did you read?

"Worse, the data point that means the most to our psychological well-being—unemployment—is likely to keep climbing. The loss of 6.5 million jobs since December 2007 has spurred the sharpest rise in the unemployment rate since the 1930s. As manufacturing jobs move overseas and companies struggle to further reduce costs, unemployment—which stands at 9.5 percent—is likely to rise above 10 percent. "There's a difference between having an expansion and an economy that has recovered," says Lawrence Summers, Obama's chief economic adviser."

If Obama had any balls he'd take NAFTA and rip it to shreds.  As long as we're giving away jobs this is not going to magically go away.  He'd rather just take our money and give it to big business. 

 

I'm not even going to bother explaining to you why ripping up NAFTA is one of the absolute dumbest things I've ever heard on these forums.
But I will give you a small tl;dr version of what anybody else could tell you.
-Wood prices would skyrocket.
-You wouldn't have enough water to drink.
-Half your west coast would be without power.

Originally posted by Teala

personal credit card debt is through the roof

I am happy to say that is no longer me. I just finished paying off my last $12,000 of cc debt. Thank you Dave Ramsey.

I am plastic free.

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Teala

personal credit card debt is through the roof

I am happy to say that is no longer me. I just finished paying off my last $12,000 of cc debt. Thank you Dave Ramsey.

I am plastic free.

Im working on it one paycheck at a time. 3 cards down 2 more to go and a car.

Dave Ramsey FTW.

Originally posted by popinjay

Saw this on another site:

 

 

01/20/2009... Closing numbers after Obama's first day in office...

Dow Jones --> 7,949.09
NASDAQ --> 1,440.86
S&P 500 --> 805.22

07/20/2009... Closing numbers exactly six months after Obama's first day in office...

Dow Jones --> 8,848.15
NASDAQ --> 1,909.29
S&P 500 --> 951.13

Percentage gained after 6 months in office...

Dow Jones --> 11.31%
NASDAQ --> 32.51%
S&P 500 --> 18.12%

Annualized rate of return

Dow Jones --> 22.62%
NASDAQ --> 65.02%
S&P 500 --> 36.24%

This is despite Obama's policies. Wall street will never approve of government control of every facet of our lives, and more taxes.

Wall street sees Obama's policies ultimately leading to wealth destruction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c4SyrNdE5E&eurl=http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/

Originally posted by Munki

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by popinjay

According to Newsweek, the recession is showing strong signs of being over with homes sales climbing up and stocks strong.

 

Which article did you read?

"Worse, the data point that means the most to our psychological well-being—unemployment—is likely to keep climbing. The loss of 6.5 million jobs since December 2007 has spurred the sharpest rise in the unemployment rate since the 1930s. As manufacturing jobs move overseas and companies struggle to further reduce costs, unemployment—which stands at 9.5 percent—is likely to rise above 10 percent. "There's a difference between having an expansion and an economy that has recovered," says Lawrence Summers, Obama's chief economic adviser."

If Obama had any balls he'd take NAFTA and rip it to shreds.  As long as we're giving away jobs this is not going to magically go away.  He'd rather just take our money and give it to big business. 

 

I'm not even going to bother explaining to you why ripping up NAFTA is one of the absolute dumbest things I've ever heard on these forums.
But I will give you a small tl;dr version of what anybody else could tell you.
-Wood prices would skyrocket.
-You wouldn't have enough water to drink.
-Half your west coast would be without power.

I guess this will come as a surprise to you but before NAFTA:

-Wood prices were cheaper

-Everybody had water

-The West coast had power

"Starting my first year in office, I will convene annual meetings with Mr. Calderón and the prime minister of Canada. Unlike similar summits under President Bush, these will be conducted with a level of transparency that represents the close ties among our three countries. We will seek the active and open involvement of citizens, labor, the private sector and non-governmental organizations in setting the agenda and making progress."

- Barack Obama, in a February 20, 2008 Dallas Morning News op-ed

The clock is ticking Barack.  Or should we add this to the pile of "Things Obama will do different from Bush" bullshit?

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Munki

...

I guess this will come as a surprise to you but before NAFTA:

-Wood prices were cheaper

-Everybody had water

-The West coast had power

"Starting my first year in office, I will convene annual meetings with Mr. Calderón and the prime minister of Canada. Unlike similar summits under President Bush, these will be conducted with a level of transparency that represents the close ties among our three countries. We will seek the active and open involvement of citizens, labor, the private sector and non-governmental organizations in setting the agenda and making progress."

- Barack Obama, in a February 20, 2008 Dallas Morning News op-ed

The clock is ticking Barack.  Or should we add this to the pile of "Things Obama will do different from Bush" bullshit?

 

Im sure this will come to a suprise to you.
Inflation.
The price of bread was cheaper before NAFTA, that has nothing to with NAFTA... There were more pirates roaming the oceans before NAFTA... Russia was larger before NAFTA... 
All completely irrelivant to what happens if NAFTA was "ripped up"
As for everyone having had water, thats great. Did you know before the USA was a fraction of what it is now?
Same as power, did you know you need more power now than you did before.

Canada is your primary source of softwood, water, electricity, and aluminum; to name a few critical resources.
You'd have to be an idiot to think you could sever that tie and stil keep youself afloat.

The problem, I think, was underestimated (see, e.g., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES saying, "the fundamentals of the economy are strong").

WSJ:  Sudeep Reddy, Bernanke Feared a Second Great Depression, Wall Street Journal, July 27, 2009, at A3, online.wsj.com/article/SB124865498517982625.html.

Is a recession, though, the natural consequence of an excess of capital and credit? The economy must contract in order to remove those excesses.  Capital just does not sit around; it goes to commodities, housing, stocks, bonds, etc.  The excesses were concentrated largely in housing.  Thus, housing needed (desperately) to contract.  I apologize to those who were working as flippers, contractors, and so forth.  Easy money and easy credit is bound to catch-up to you.

Has this reinflation of the bubble (trillions), however, simply delayed naturally repairing economy?  In other words, once the capital and credit are unleashed again, will it not generate new bubbles (carboncredit market)? 

Interesting quote by the Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke:

"Small businesses represent the lifeblood of small cities, large cities and our American economy, and they are being shortchanged by the Federal Reserve, the Treasury Department and Congress."

Under PROPOSED LAWS:  The GAO (Government Accountability Office) --one of my favorite organizations-- would have the power to subpoena information from Fed officials.  Bernanke said, "I don't think that's consistent with independence."  In other words, the ability to examine the books, guarantee by Joe the Sixpack Taxpayer, would undermine the Fed's "independence."

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Teala

personal credit card debt is through the roof

I am happy to say that is no longer me. I just finished paying off my last $12,000 of cc debt. Thank you Dave Ramsey.

I am plastic free.

12.000 in credit card debt? darn it Dekron, didn't I tell you to stop playing Maple Story?

Originally posted by Munki

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Munki

...

I guess this will come as a surprise to you but before NAFTA:

-Wood prices were cheaper

-Everybody had water

-The West coast had power

"Starting my first year in office, I will convene annual meetings with Mr. Calderón and the prime minister of Canada. Unlike similar summits under President Bush, these will be conducted with a level of transparency that represents the close ties among our three countries. We will seek the active and open involvement of citizens, labor, the private sector and non-governmental organizations in setting the agenda and making progress."

- Barack Obama, in a February 20, 2008 Dallas Morning News op-ed

The clock is ticking Barack.  Or should we add this to the pile of "Things Obama will do different from Bush" bullshit?

 

Im sure this will come to a suprise to you.
Inflation.
The price of bread was cheaper before NAFTA, that has nothing to with NAFTA... There were more pirates roaming the oceans before NAFTA... Russia was larger before NAFTA... 
All completely irrelivant to what happens if NAFTA was "ripped up"
As for everyone having had water, thats great. Did you know before the USA was a fraction of what it is now?
Same as power, did you know you need more power now than you did before.

Canada is your primary source of softwood, water, electricity, and aluminum; to name a few critical resources.
You'd have to be an idiot to think you could sever that tie and stil keep youself afloat.

I know you're trying really hard to say something that sounds intelligent but you're not making any sense.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Munki

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Munki

...

I guess this will come as a surprise to you but before NAFTA:

-Wood prices were cheaper

-Everybody had water

-The West coast had power

"Starting my first year in office, I will convene annual meetings with Mr. Calderón and the prime minister of Canada. Unlike similar summits under President Bush, these will be conducted with a level of transparency that represents the close ties among our three countries. We will seek the active and open involvement of citizens, labor, the private sector and non-governmental organizations in setting the agenda and making progress."

- Barack Obama, in a February 20, 2008 Dallas Morning News op-ed

The clock is ticking Barack.  Or should we add this to the pile of "Things Obama will do different from Bush" bullshit?

 

Im sure this will come to a suprise to you.
Inflation.
The price of bread was cheaper before NAFTA, that has nothing to with NAFTA... There were more pirates roaming the oceans before NAFTA... Russia was larger before NAFTA... 
All completely irrelivant to what happens if NAFTA was "ripped up"
As for everyone having had water, thats great. Did you know before the USA was a fraction of what it is now?
Same as power, did you know you need more power now than you did before.

Canada is your primary source of softwood, water, electricity, and aluminum; to name a few critical resources.
You'd have to be an idiot to think you could sever that tie and stil keep youself afloat.

I know you're trying really hard to say something that sounds intelligent but you're not making any sense.

I don't need Canadian softwood and I have American hardwood.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Munki

...

I know you're trying really hard to say something that sounds intelligent but you're not making any sense.

Oh okay, I won't bother then, I should have realized eariler you didn't understand what I was saying.

As for american hardwood :P Good luck making a house with that.

Yeah baby! Things are looking up!

Jobless Rate Dips To 9.4 Percent; Drops for the first time in FIFTEEN months

---

The U.S. unemployment rate slid back to 9.4 percent in July, dipping slightly for the first time in 15 months and signaling that the recession may be easing, according to a Labor Department report released Friday.

Employers cut 247,000 nonfarm jobs in July, shedding jobs at the slowest pace in nearly a year. The Labor Department also said 43,000 fewer jobs were lost in May and June than was previously reported.

The White House said the jobs report is a sign that the economic stimulus is having an effect. "We're moving in the right direction, but we've still got work to do," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said.

He said President Obama still expects unemployment to hit 10 percent this year, adding it will be "quite some time before we see positive, sustained job growth."

The unemployment report came as a surprise. Economists had predicted the unemployment rate would increase to 9.6 percent and job losses of around 320,000.

---

For those following at home with a scorecard, President Obama has only been in office for eight months. This is the first drop in unemployment in FIFTEEN months.

15 months
-8 months
--------------

7 months Obama wasn't even President of this mess. :)

Again, I ask the question "Is the recession over?"

This is excellent news, and running straight on target with what I predicted on these boards a couple of times. I see no evidence that this is the result of any of the stimulus (not enough has been spent to really effect anything); it seems to be tracking like recessions do -- and if any government actions have "helped," it's been pumping the economy up with money (which carries the risk of high inflation in a couple of years).

Let's hope these two months have been the turnaround; and Bernanke is wise enough to raise interest rates at the right time to stem inflation without triggering a return to recession. We live in interesting times.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Teala

personal credit card debt is through the roof

I am happy to say that is no longer me. I just finished paying off my last $12,000 of cc debt. Thank you Dave Ramsey.

I am plastic free.

 

12.000 in credit card debt? darn it Dekron, didn't I tell you to stop playing Maple Story?

Buying that house next to the doughnut shop wasn't so smart either.