Originally posted by jusomdude

This is what I interpret when I hear that all classes are going to be equally balanced. If Bioware even tries to tell me through story that I'm a Jedi Master or something, but I'm equal to all other classes, I'm going to burst out laughing.

I guess I'm just going to have to take it that I will be playing a padawan with no chance of making Knight and beyond, no matter what they tell me. It would make more sense this way, because then, I could actually believe that other classes stand an equal chance against me.

Sure, I'll probably get Knight like powers while leveling, but as long as other classes get equally strong powers, it's spit in the face to the whole concept of Jedi. I will in no way, shape, or form, ever believe that pistol totin Joe Bob smuggler even stands a remote chance against even a Jedi Knight, let alone Master, no matter how much elite training or experience they have.

 

I think there are ways to implement alpha classes if they actually put some effort into balancing them out other ways, such as, long periods of half force power/health after death, or maybe each time you die you lose the ability to use a few powers for each death for a moderate amount of time.

BTW, before anyone comes in here saying "This isn't SWG!!!" I know that, but it is Star Wars.

 

To me, having anything but a padawan equal to other classes is the equivalent of taking a family size dook square on top of the Star Wars IP.

Woah now, not true.

Anyone remember the fight of a lifetime that Jango (a bounty hunter) gave Master Kenobi? How about the fight that Boba put up to Luke Skywalker? Not to mention the number of Knights slain in wars against droids and living beings (Clone Wars? The Jedi fought with the Clones, yes, but quite a few were taken out my droids.) Frankly, if a droid can take out a Knight or Master, a human definitely can.

Those, were just off the top of my head from the movies and shows. This isn't even bringing up the many times it has happened in the Expanded Universe.

Your arguement is very flawed and hollow.

Originally posted by nickelpat

Originally posted by jusomdude

This is what I interpret when I hear that all classes are going to be equally balanced. If Bioware even tries to tell me through story that I'm a Jedi Master or something, but I'm equal to all other classes, I'm going to burst out laughing.

I guess I'm just going to have to take it that I will be playing a padawan with no chance of making Knight and beyond, no matter what they tell me. It would make more sense this way, because then, I could actually believe that other classes stand an equal chance against me.

Sure, I'll probably get Knight like powers while leveling, but as long as other classes get equally strong powers, it's spit in the face to the whole concept of Jedi. I will in no way, shape, or form, ever believe that pistol totin Joe Bob smuggler even stands a remote chance against even a Jedi Knight, let alone Master, no matter how much elite training or experience they have.

 

I think there are ways to implement alpha classes if they actually put some effort into balancing them out other ways, such as, long periods of half force power/health after death, or maybe each time you die you lose the ability to use a few powers for each death for a moderate amount of time.

BTW, before anyone comes in here saying "This isn't SWG!!!" I know that, but it is Star Wars.

 

To me, having anything but a padawan equal to other classes is the equivalent of taking a family size dook square on top of the Star Wars IP.

Woah now, not true.

Anyone remember the fight of a lifetime that Jango (a bounty hunter) gave Master Kenobi? How about the fight that Boba put up to Luke Skywalker? Not to mention the number of Knights slain in wars against droids and living beings (Clone Wars? The Jedi fought with the Clones, yes, but quite a few were taken out my droids.) Frankly, if a droid can take out a Knight or Master, a human definitely can.

Those, were just off the top of my head from the movies and shows. This isn't even bringing up the many times it has happened in the Expanded Universe.

Your arguement is very flawed and hollow.

From your post, I can see that you didn't read the whole thread before posting.

One point of Jedi vs BH is that BHs mainly rely on their trinkets to be effective.

Another point is, all those who actually put up a fight against Jedi are above average, or the absolute elite, themselves.

And to me your droid argument is flawed seeing how advanced AI could easily do things better than any average human.

By all means, everyone continue to say Jedi are just random schmoes, able to be easily taken care of by anyone with training in their respective fields.

I'm done here, apparently the most legendary warriors in the Star Wars universe are cannon fodder according to the majority of Star Wars fans.

Um, not to mention Order Sixty Six (Great Jedi Purge) in which Clone troopers pretty much murdered every jedi except Yoda, Obi Wan and nameless others.

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Um, not to mention Order Sixty Six (Great Jedi Purge) in which Clone troopers pretty much murdered every jedi except Yoda, Obi Wan and nameless others.

That was mentioned previously.

Bounty hunters are bad ass dudes if anything I would be pissed if a Jedi was OP to a Bounty hunter lol.

Originally posted by jusomdude

 

Another thing I thought of is that if you actually wanted to be like a Jedi Master without any in-game stats/powers doing it for you, you'd pretty much have to be a Jedi in real life, to kill like 10 guys at once with equal in game classes.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not a Jedi let alone a Jedi Master in real life.(and no, you're not.)

So, I think that's another good reason why the Jedi class should be more powerful than average, Jo Bob smuggler.

 

You all seem to be completely forgetting that I said it should come with penalties too, so they don't just go around dominating non-stop.

I'm certainly not a jedi in real life (nor do I intend to play one in the game), but I'd like to point out (once again, apparently) that it took only a few shots from everyday, ordinary clones to kill...well, most of the Jedi Order of the Old Republic in the execution of Order 66.

In real life, an individual with the proper training and skill most certainly can "kill like 10 guys at once."  If I, as a soldier in combat (which I have been) have identical training to my entire squad but happen to be more skilled in marksmanship (I qualified expert every 6 months with every weapon I fired:  M9, M203, M249, 50 cal, grenades, anti-tank - while many of my squadmates were marksmen) or other skills, then yes, it is entirely possible to do...even for a non-jedi.

Or could it be that you're forgetting the fact that at Geonosis, a somewhat large strike force of jedi, including Jedi Masters and Jedi Knights, had its numbers thinned by about 90 percent or so by non-jedi?  If the discussion is going to be about Star Wars canon, it might be wise to review all of the canon before becoming upset about (perceived) gameplay mechanics. ;)

Originally posted by bachuus13

Okay why do Jedi or even Sith have to be more powerful than the other heroes in the Starwars universe.  They are  "overt" force users, but in A New Hope, Obi Wan explaines that the Force  "is an energy field created by all living things"   Jedi and Sith are trained to use and see the Force in specific ways; but those aren't the only ways it can manifest itself.  Is Han Solo defying the odds and navigating an asteroid field Skill, luck or just his untrained and subconcious use of the same powers Luke uses.   It is the innate power of the force harnessed by an elite smuggler/Bounty hunter that makes them superior too a Padawan and the equal of a Jedi knight or Sith

QFTW.

It really IS that simple.  Another poster remarked about the PnP RPGs most MMOs are based on, and the Star Wars RPG, (most recent one anyway,) allows for all of the heroes to tap into the Force periodically, (albeit subconsciously for non Force-Sensitive heroes,) to improve they're chances of success.  The Force is not an exclusive thing to Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Nifa

Originally posted by jusomdude

 

Another thing I thought of is that if you actually wanted to be like a Jedi Master without any in-game stats/powers doing it for you, you'd pretty much have to be a Jedi in real life, to kill like 10 guys at once with equal in game classes.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not a Jedi let alone a Jedi Master in real life.(and no, you're not.)

So, I think that's another good reason why the Jedi class should be more powerful than average, Jo Bob smuggler.

 

You all seem to be completely forgetting that I said it should come with penalties too, so they don't just go around dominating non-stop.

I'm certainly not a jedi in real life (nor do I intend to play one in the game), but I'd like to point out (once again, apparently) that it took only a few shots from everyday, ordinary clones to kill...well, most of the Jedi Order of the Old Republic in the execution of Order 66.

In real life, an individual with the proper training and skill most certainly can "kill like 10 guys at once."  If I, as a soldier in combat (which I have been) have identical training to my entire squad but happen to be more skilled in marksmanship (I qualified expert every 6 months with every weapon I fired:  M9, M203, M249, 50 cal, grenades, anti-tank - while many of my squadmates were marksmen) or other skills, then yes, it is entirely possible to do...even for a non-jedi.

Or could it be that you're forgetting the fact that at Geonosis, a somewhat large strike force of jedi, including Jedi Masters and Jedi Knights, had its numbers thinned by about 90 percent or so by non-jedi?  If the discussion is going to be about Star Wars canon, it might be wise to review all of the canon before becoming upset about (perceived) gameplay mechanics. ;)

Seeing as how there were many large war machines, advanced weapons, and all those manner of things involved in the battle of geonosis, it is no mystery how many Jedi could have been killed. I don't know if you knew this or just conveniently left it out, but I'd say it is a major fact of the situation.

And, you seem to assume that everyone strolled up and casually blasted every Jedi during Order 66. While the movies did seem to portray that, I think it was just to save time, and to not show battles of Jedi most people don't know or care about.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by nickelpat

Originally posted by jusomdude

This is what I interpret when I hear that all classes are going to be equally balanced. If Bioware even tries to tell me through story that I'm a Jedi Master or something, but I'm equal to all other classes, I'm going to burst out laughing.

I guess I'm just going to have to take it that I will be playing a padawan with no chance of making Knight and beyond, no matter what they tell me. It would make more sense this way, because then, I could actually believe that other classes stand an equal chance against me.

Sure, I'll probably get Knight like powers while leveling, but as long as other classes get equally strong powers, it's spit in the face to the whole concept of Jedi. I will in no way, shape, or form, ever believe that pistol totin Joe Bob smuggler even stands a remote chance against even a Jedi Knight, let alone Master, no matter how much elite training or experience they have.

 

I think there are ways to implement alpha classes if they actually put some effort into balancing them out other ways, such as, long periods of half force power/health after death, or maybe each time you die you lose the ability to use a few powers for each death for a moderate amount of time.

BTW, before anyone comes in here saying "This isn't SWG!!!" I know that, but it is Star Wars.

 

To me, having anything but a padawan equal to other classes is the equivalent of taking a family size dook square on top of the Star Wars IP.

Woah now, not true.

Anyone remember the fight of a lifetime that Jango (a bounty hunter) gave Master Kenobi? How about the fight that Boba put up to Luke Skywalker? Not to mention the number of Knights slain in wars against droids and living beings (Clone Wars? The Jedi fought with the Clones, yes, but quite a few were taken out my droids.) Frankly, if a droid can take out a Knight or Master, a human definitely can.

Those, were just off the top of my head from the movies and shows. This isn't even bringing up the many times it has happened in the Expanded Universe.

Your arguement is very flawed and hollow.

 

From your post, I can see that you didn't read the whole thread before posting.

One point of Jedi vs BH is that BHs mainly rely on their trinkets to be effective.

Another point is, all those who actually put up a fight against Jedi are above average, or the absolute elite, themselves.

And to me your droid argument is flawed seeing how advanced AI could easily do things better than any average human.

 

By all means, everyone continue to say Jedi are just random schmoes, able to be easily taken care of by anyone with training in their respective fields.

I'm done here, apparently the most legendary warriors in the Star Wars universe are cannon fodder according to the majority of Star Wars fans.

Yes, they are the elite of their kind. When you play a game what are? A hero, the elite, one of the best and brightest. That's what BioWare is trying to do. I'm not saying that these awesome Jedi are cannon-fodder, I'm saying that they are characters in the Star Wars canon that would fit into the mold of other announced classes that can beat Master Jedi.

This means, at least to me, that if I play a really awesome Bounty Hunter (and, with the way BioWare seems to be going, each player will be awesome) I can beat an awesome Jedi, as Jango and Boba nearly did. You forget that a master of a praticular trade and a master jedi, can make a pretty even match, as shown with the Boba and Jango examples.

As for the droids, they're AI and not overly strong or fast. They follow a fairly predictable pattern but are great in numbers.

In the end, the Jedi aren't uber elite superheroes as you're thinking, they're great warriors, just as many of the player characters will be.

And, we all know BioWare will let you become a Master Jedi no matter what, even if they're not as powerful as they should be. Game balance beats out canon and lore in my book.

And Jusomede, I see you saying "well, it's because of advanced weaponary". Well, don't the jedi have the force and lightsabers? Are you saying that no one else should have something like advanced weaponry, or a trap to give them an advantage? That's sure what it sounds like. Of course if you take away bounty hunter's tricks, and the droids numbers, and weaponary, the Jedi will win, unless of course, you do like wise and take away their force. Being, they use that to use their saber so precisely. So, what I say is:

"Seeing how the Jedi have lightsabers and The Force, it's no wonder they win.... Unless the other side gets big war machines and more advanced tech."

Originally posted by jusomdude

This is what I interpret when I hear that all classes are going to be equally balanced. If Bioware even tries to tell me through story that I'm a Jedi Master or something, but I'm equal to all other classes, I'm going to burst out laughing.
I guess I'm just going to have to take it that I will be playing a padawan with no chance of making Knight and beyond, no matter what they tell me. It would make more sense this way, because then, I could actually believe that other classes stand an equal chance against me.
Sure, I'll probably get Knight like powers while leveling, but as long as other classes get equally strong powers, it's spit in the face to the whole concept of Jedi. I will in no way, shape, or form, ever believe that pistol totin Joe Bob smuggler even stands a remote chance against even a Jedi Knight, let alone Master, no matter how much elite training or experience they have.
 
I think there are ways to implement alpha classes if they actually put some effort into balancing them out other ways, such as, long periods of half force power/health after death, or maybe each time you die you lose the ability to use a few powers for each death for a moderate amount of time.
BTW, before anyone comes in here saying "This isn't SWG!!!" I know that, but it is Star Wars.
 
To me, having anything but a padawan equal to other classes is the equivalent of taking a family size dook square on top of the Star Wars IP.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by nickelpat

Originally posted by jusomdude

This is what I interpret when I hear that all classes are going to be equally balanced. If Bioware even tries to tell me through story that I'm a Jedi Master or something, but I'm equal to all other classes, I'm going to burst out laughing.

I guess I'm just going to have to take it that I will be playing a padawan with no chance of making Knight and beyond, no matter what they tell me. It would make more sense this way, because then, I could actually believe that other classes stand an equal chance against me.

Sure, I'll probably get Knight like powers while leveling, but as long as other classes get equally strong powers, it's spit in the face to the whole concept of Jedi. I will in no way, shape, or form, ever believe that pistol totin Joe Bob smuggler even stands a remote chance against even a Jedi Knight, let alone Master, no matter how much elite training or experience they have.

 

I think there are ways to implement alpha classes if they actually put some effort into balancing them out other ways, such as, long periods of half force power/health after death, or maybe each time you die you lose the ability to use a few powers for each death for a moderate amount of time.

BTW, before anyone comes in here saying "This isn't SWG!!!" I know that, but it is Star Wars.

 

To me, having anything but a padawan equal to other classes is the equivalent of taking a family size dook square on top of the Star Wars IP.

Woah now, not true.

Anyone remember the fight of a lifetime that Jango (a bounty hunter) gave Master Kenobi? How about the fight that Boba put up to Luke Skywalker? Not to mention the number of Knights slain in wars against droids and living beings (Clone Wars? The Jedi fought with the Clones, yes, but quite a few were taken out my droids.) Frankly, if a droid can take out a Knight or Master, a human definitely can.

Those, were just off the top of my head from the movies and shows. This isn't even bringing up the many times it has happened in the Expanded Universe.

Your arguement is very flawed and hollow.

 

From your post, I can see that you didn't read the whole thread before posting.

One point of Jedi vs BH is that BHs mainly rely on their trinkets to be effective.

Another point is, all those who actually put up a fight against Jedi are above average, or the absolute elite, themselves.

And to me your droid argument is flawed seeing how advanced AI could easily do things better than any average human.

 

By all means, everyone continue to say Jedi are just random schmoes, able to be easily taken care of by anyone with training in their respective fields.

I'm done here, apparently the most legendary warriors in the Star Wars universe are cannon fodder according to the majority of Star Wars fans.

Why dont you just do a jedi and be done with it already? You dont even need to take it out to dinner first.

The OP is right, the rest is garbage.

(Though he was wrong, we exactly know who was shot by Jango on Geonosis and he was a Jedi Master. Do not forget that Jango is  Mandalorian and Force Sensitive as well.)

There are Heros in STAR WARS who kill jedi easy. If you EVER count them, there are MUCH less, than jedi. The only way to make the game not be another NGE disaster, where STAR WARS fans would call an outrage if BioWare makes Jedi fight Sith most of the time and leave them at least slightly more powerful, than ohter classes. I say slightly, because ie. 5% difference in an MMORPG is a deciding factor in PvP.

BioWare doing a great job so far, their little cinematic trailer exactly shows how the playerbase will look, there will be tonns of Jedi and Sith and ONE Bounty Hunter, and one Smuggler. Troopers don't count, the ones in the cinematic were obviously low level NPC, since the SIth Lord didn't think twice before engaging them and he raped like 7 of them with one saber throw - so they aren't like what BioWare told us.

Talking about millions of jedi means a complete lack of any knowledge in the STAR WARS lore, there were never even hundred thousands in the whole galaxy. So go back to WoW until SWTOR is out, when it comes out the MMO part will be all familiar. WoW with STAR WARS graphics :) Or maybe even better!

Doesn't really matter for the sandbox MMORPG lovers, they wont be satisfied.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Nifa

Originally posted by jusomdude

 

Another thing I thought of is that if you actually wanted to be like a Jedi Master without any in-game stats/powers doing it for you, you'd pretty much have to be a Jedi in real life, to kill like 10 guys at once with equal in game classes.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not a Jedi let alone a Jedi Master in real life.(and no, you're not.)

So, I think that's another good reason why the Jedi class should be more powerful than average, Jo Bob smuggler.

 

You all seem to be completely forgetting that I said it should come with penalties too, so they don't just go around dominating non-stop.

I'm certainly not a jedi in real life (nor do I intend to play one in the game), but I'd like to point out (once again, apparently) that it took only a few shots from everyday, ordinary clones to kill...well, most of the Jedi Order of the Old Republic in the execution of Order 66.

In real life, an individual with the proper training and skill most certainly can "kill like 10 guys at once."  If I, as a soldier in combat (which I have been) have identical training to my entire squad but happen to be more skilled in marksmanship (I qualified expert every 6 months with every weapon I fired:  M9, M203, M249, 50 cal, grenades, anti-tank - while many of my squadmates were marksmen) or other skills, then yes, it is entirely possible to do...even for a non-jedi.

Or could it be that you're forgetting the fact that at Geonosis, a somewhat large strike force of jedi, including Jedi Masters and Jedi Knights, had its numbers thinned by about 90 percent or so by non-jedi?  If the discussion is going to be about Star Wars canon, it might be wise to review all of the canon before becoming upset about (perceived) gameplay mechanics. ;)

 

Seeing as how there were many large war machines, advanced weapons, and all those manner of things involved in the battle of geonosis, it is no mystery how many Jedi could have been killed. I don't know if you knew this or just conveniently left it out, but I'd say it is a major fact of the situation.

And, you seem to assume that everyone strolled up and casually blasted every Jedi during Order 66. While the movies did seem to portray that, I think it was just to save time, and to not show battles of Jedi most people don't know or care about.

No sir.  As someone who has often been called "a walking talking Star Wars encyclopedia," I'm fully aware of that as, I suspect, are many of the people viewing this forum.

I am also aware that it is my perception that your belief (based on your posts in this thread) is that a Jedi Master ought to be some kind of god or something like that, and it simply isn't so. 

Excluding the EU, we have three Jedi Masters and two Sith Masters as good examples:  Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader (a.k.a. Anakin Skywalker), and Emperor Palaptine.  We also have Shaak Ti, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi Mundi, Sora Bulq, and a host of others - just from the films themselves, mind you; EU is completely discounted for the sake of discussion here.

Yoda narrowly escaped Palpatine and spent more than 20 years in hiding.  Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker found themselves in many sticky situations and several times, were rescued not by their Force powers, but what many would classify as "pure dumb luck."  Mace Windu was killed by a Jedi Knight.  Obi-Wan Kenobi chose to become one with the Force - frankly, it's questionable (to me, at least) whether he could have won a toe-to-toe duel with Vader at his advanced age as he had twenty years earlier.  Kit Fisto was killed by Palpatine and it was no contest - in fact, there wasn't even a battle.  In fact, at the execution of Order 66 at the Jedi Temple, it was a single jedi (Anakin) accompanying a battalion of clone troopers.  The (non-Force-sensitive) troopers gunned down many Jedi Knights and Masters in addition to the Padawans.  Luminara Unduli, Barriss Offee, Aayla Secura and many others were killed by ordinary clone troopers.  While some were able to defend themselves briefly, the troopers still cut them down like so many dead trees.

If you want to include the EU, there are numerous jedi - Masters and Knights - who ended up in dire need of rescue.  The list is exhaustive but includes the entire Skywalker/Solo family.  If you choose to include the EU, it's wise to also remember that Obi-Wan Kenobi was nearly sent to Agri-Corps (where young people were sent when they didn't quite "measure up") instead of becoming a jedi.

Qui-Gon Jinn Said it best in Episode 1 when discussing his lightsaber with a young Anakin Skywalker:

Qui-Gon: "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and stole it from him."
Anakin: "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi."
Qui-Gon: "I wish that were so."

Originally posted by Nifa

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Nifa

Originally posted by jusomdude

 

Another thing I thought of is that if you actually wanted to be like a Jedi Master without any in-game stats/powers doing it for you, you'd pretty much have to be a Jedi in real life, to kill like 10 guys at once with equal in game classes.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not a Jedi let alone a Jedi Master in real life.(and no, you're not.)

So, I think that's another good reason why the Jedi class should be more powerful than average, Jo Bob smuggler.

 

You all seem to be completely forgetting that I said it should come with penalties too, so they don't just go around dominating non-stop.

I'm certainly not a jedi in real life (nor do I intend to play one in the game), but I'd like to point out (once again, apparently) that it took only a few shots from everyday, ordinary clones to kill...well, most of the Jedi Order of the Old Republic in the execution of Order 66.

In real life, an individual with the proper training and skill most certainly can "kill like 10 guys at once."  If I, as a soldier in combat (which I have been) have identical training to my entire squad but happen to be more skilled in marksmanship (I qualified expert every 6 months with every weapon I fired:  M9, M203, M249, 50 cal, grenades, anti-tank - while many of my squadmates were marksmen) or other skills, then yes, it is entirely possible to do...even for a non-jedi.

Or could it be that you're forgetting the fact that at Geonosis, a somewhat large strike force of jedi, including Jedi Masters and Jedi Knights, had its numbers thinned by about 90 percent or so by non-jedi?  If the discussion is going to be about Star Wars canon, it might be wise to review all of the canon before becoming upset about (perceived) gameplay mechanics. ;)

 

Seeing as how there were many large war machines, advanced weapons, and all those manner of things involved in the battle of geonosis, it is no mystery how many Jedi could have been killed. I don't know if you knew this or just conveniently left it out, but I'd say it is a major fact of the situation.

And, you seem to assume that everyone strolled up and casually blasted every Jedi during Order 66. While the movies did seem to portray that, I think it was just to save time, and to not show battles of Jedi most people don't know or care about.

No sir.  As someone who has often been called "a walking talking Star Wars encyclopedia," I'm fully aware of that as, I suspect, are many of the people viewing this forum.

I am also aware that it is my perception that your belief (based on your posts in this thread) is that a Jedi Master ought to be some kind of god or something like that, and it simply isn't so. 

Excluding the EU, we have three Jedi Masters and two Sith Masters as good examples:  Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader (a.k.a. Anakin Skywalker), and Emperor Palaptine.  We also have Shaak Ti, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi Mundi, Sora Bulq, and a host of others - just from the films themselves, mind you; EU is completely discounted for the sake of discussion here.

Yoda narrowly escaped Palpatine and spent more than 20 years in hiding.  Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker found themselves in many sticky situations and several times, were rescued not by their Force powers, but what many would classify as "pure dumb luck."  Mace Windu was killed by a Jedi Knight.  Obi-Wan Kenobi chose to become one with the Force - frankly, it's questionable (to me, at least) whether he could have won a toe-to-toe duel with Vader at his advanced age as he had twenty years earlier.  Kit Fisto was killed by Palpatine and it was no contest - in fact, there wasn't even a battle.  In fact, at the execution of Order 66 at the Jedi Temple, it was a single jedi (Anakin) accompanying a battalion of clone troopers.  The (non-Force-sensitive) troopers gunned down many Jedi Knights and Masters in addition to the Padawans.  Luminara Unduli, Barriss Offee, Aayla Secura and many others were killed by ordinary clone troopers.  While some were able to defend themselves briefly, the troopers still cut them down like so many dead trees.

If you want to include the EU, there are numerous jedi - Masters and Knights - who ended up in dire need of rescue.  The list is exhaustive but includes the entire Skywalker/Solo family.  If you choose to include the EU, it's wise to also remember that Obi-Wan Kenobi was nearly sent to Agri-Corps (where young people were sent when they didn't quite "measure up") instead of becoming a jedi.

Qui-Gon Jinn Said it best in Episode 1 when discussing his lightsaber with a young Anakin Skywalker:

Qui-Gon: "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and stole it from him."
Anakin: "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi."
Qui-Gon: "I wish that were so."

 

Alright, with all the information we have, taking it only from film, to me it seems those Jedi that were shown being slaughtered like cattle, were primarily included just to be killed, or made an example out of. Really, they're some pretty fail Jedi if they can't deflect a few blaster bolts, compared to the "Hero" Jedi. They're like those new characters you frequently see in  a TV series, they don't have any big roles, they say a few lines, then they die. I don't think they are a good example of Jedi.

And since the focus of the game is to let players play "hero" characters, I would expect to be as powerful as the likes of, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, etc. Not some moderately powerful Jedi that has a 50/50 or less chance against a non-Jedi/Force Sensative.

A previous poster also brought up a good point. Going just by the films, there were far less elite bounty hunters than Jedi.

Although since they're working outside of canon, they can modify things as they see fit or get approved to, making Jedi a run of the mill, everyday nobody, is one decision I will despise.

I'll play the game and all the classes for their story content, but after that, I just don't know if I can play with their decision to make Jedi just another class.

Originally posted by jusomdude

This is what I interpret when I hear that all classes are going to be equally balanced. If Bioware even tries to tell me through story that I'm a Jedi Master or something, but I'm equal to all other classes, I'm going to burst out laughing.

I guess I'm just going to have to take it that I will be playing a padawan with no chance of making Knight and beyond, no matter what they tell me. It would make more sense this way, because then, I could actually believe that other classes stand an equal chance against me.

Sure, I'll probably get Knight like powers while leveling, but as long as other classes get equally strong powers, it's spit in the face to the whole concept of Jedi. I will in no way, shape, or form, ever believe that pistol totin Joe Bob smuggler even stands a remote chance against even a Jedi Knight, let alone Master, no matter how much elite training or experience they have.

 

I think there are ways to implement alpha classes if they actually put some effort into balancing them out other ways, such as, long periods of half force power/health after death, or maybe each time you die you lose the ability to use a few powers for each death for a moderate amount of time.

BTW, before anyone comes in here saying "This isn't SWG!!!" I know that, but it is Star Wars.

 

To me, having anything but a padawan equal to other classes is the equivalent of taking a family size dook square on top of the Star Wars IP.

wth? No, you won't start as a Jedi Master, and you didn't start as a Jedi Master in ANY of the KOTOR games either, you had to work your way up to it. So what in hell is the problem?

You NEVER start ANY mmo (or frankly any computer game) at the maximum level. It wouldn't be fun if you did.

Get over it.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Alright, so an elite as they come BH took out a Jedi master. So every BH in the game will be like the absolute elite BH?

Welcome to MMOs...

Everyone's a hero, that's both the lure and the problem with the genre.

Originally posted by Astralglide

I would like to recommend this discussions to be the nerdiest internet- based dork fight of the month

Correct, a dork fight. Not to be confused with geek or nerd fight, because they would have their facts straight.

 As to the whole point being heroic in this game..

I believe Bioware means by that concept is the one versus many style. You are more likely to feel heroic overcoming odds such as infiltrating a base of enemies, achieving an objective against a host of enemies and/or defeating a larger single enemy. It has also be inferred that the typical raid concept of many players vs one mega boss will not be emphasized. Hard to feel heroic when you are one of an army of players doing repetitive actions to widdle down hit points of a big pixelated boss.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Astralglide

I would like to recommend this discussions to be the nerdiest internet- based dork fight of the month

 

Correct, a dork fight. Not to be confused with geek or nerd fight, because they would have their facts straight.

Astralglide does have a good point.

We need a pious Star Wars moderator here to keep all the unbelievers banned :P

lmao 6 pages. Ace.