Originally posted by Merxion

I can actually answer this from my personal perspective.  Funny one day you wake up and you have a software engineering degree and 15 years working in the information systems field 10+ as a manager or director.  One day your buddy says hey man you know how we always joked about working at a MMO company?  Next thing I know I take a pay cut and goto work as one of the IT guys at CME.  Year later things starts falling a part a bunch of people leave.  I get the opportunity to actually work on the game.  Man I was so stoked.  Again this was my lifes dream.  You know what over the last year I learned more about software engineering then 4 years in school.  There are other people there with similar stories.   But there are also people who are industry veterans that really sunk their hearts into this game.  All Games have behind the scenes drama stuff you never see as a player.  Alot of the newer/younger crew just want to get a shipped title and really feel they can get it done.  So when you ask how can you work fore liars I guess my answer to you might sound shallow but, I worked for as long as I could financially afford to not get paid because it was my dream to work in the MMO Industry.  I love the MMO genre i have played just about every pay and f2p mmo out there.  The reality of the situation hit savings finally hit 0 after about 8 payrolls with no pay.  And I made the decision to seek other employment.  Sadly I had to give up.  Honestly if I had another 3 months of pay stocked up I would still be there right now working on the game.   You'll see people like Bob what's his name saying the things he says.  Some of its true some of it isn't I wont argue that.  But when he says the code monkeys that are left cant code its a lie.  I could go on and on.  But if I could convey one thing these guys could get it done I truely believe that.  Mistakes have been made but the game is so  much fun its hard to explain what its like.  

As far as not doing anything that will ge tthe game to market.  Maybe your right maybe your wrong.  I know I was still fixing SGW bugs and adding action/condition code to the system up to when I left.  That moves the product closer to ship.  We could tit for tat all day :).  The people that are left I have so much respect and empathy for their situation.

SGW Team you guys hang tuff until you cant anymore love ya guys 

Heath

Is this what they call cult mentality?  I just cannot think of any reason to work for a dishonest bunch of people, despite it being a lifelong dream.  How do you wake up and look yourself in the mirror?  Was the hope of getting significant cash bonus or stock off a game worth your values and morals?  

Looked you up on linked in and according to your duties, you: “Direct and oversee operations in Outsourcing, Audio Production, Quality Assurance and Information Systems”   Are you feeling guilty for directing Khestrel in getting the community eager and encouraged that the game was actually ‘in production’ and coming out during the past 4 months?  Is that why you are here? 

Do not even try to pull the BS about how you thought they would get investors.  Gary has been attempting to raise additional funds for nearly a year with little success (except for MMOGULS). Y ou cannot be that naive.   Plus, even if you did get your 8 Million, there is nobody left to make the game.     Reminds me of the underware gnome episode from Southpark;

Phase 1:  Collect Underpants
Phase 2:  ?
Phase 3:  Profit! 

Finally, I wanted to comment on your statement about “fixing bugs”. Maybe if there were enough people left working on the game to move it forward, it was running on a external server with thousands of accounts logged in – now that’s bug fixing. You are all just playing around in an office, while awaiting eviction.   
 

Originally posted by Merxion

Originally posted by Kyriesunset

 How can you continue to work for liars? All you are doing now is helping facilitate Gary steal more money from people, you are not really doing anything now that will get the game to market.

I can actually answer this from my personal perspective.  Funny one day you wake up and you have a software engineering degree and 15 years working in the information systems field 10+ as a manager or director.  One day your buddy says hey man you know how we always joked about working at a MMO company?  Next thing I know I take a pay cut and goto work as one of the IT guys at CME.  Year later things starts falling a part a bunch of people leave.  I get the opportunity to actually work on the game.  Man I was so stoked.  Again this was my lifes dream.  You know what over the last year I learned more about software engineering then 4 years in school.  There are other people there with similar stories.   But there are also people who are industry veterans that really sunk their hearts into this game.  All Games have behind the scenes drama stuff you never see as a player.  Alot of the newer/younger crew just want to get a shipped title and really feel they can get it done.  So when you ask how can you work fore liars I guess my answer to you might sound shallow but, I worked for as long as I could financially afford to not get paid because it was my dream to work in the MMO Industry.  I love the MMO genre i have played just about every pay and f2p mmo out there.  The reality of the situation hit savings finally hit 0 after about 8 payrolls with no pay.  And I made the decision to seek other employment.  Sadly I had to give up.  Honestly if I had another 3 months of pay stocked up I would still be there right now working on the game.   You'll see people like Bob what's his name saying the things he says.  Some of its true some of it isn't I wont argue that.  But when he says the code monkeys that are left cant code its a lie.  I could go on and on.  But if I could convey one thing these guys could get it done I truely believe that.  Mistakes have been made but the game is so  much fun its hard to explain what its like.  

As far as not doing anything that will ge tthe game to market.  Maybe your right maybe your wrong.  I know I was still fixing SGW bugs and adding action/condition code to the system up to when I left.  That moves the product closer to ship.  We could tit for tat all day :).  The people that are left I have so much respect and empathy for their situation.

SGW Team you guys hang tuff until you cant anymore love ya guys

 

Heath

Is this what you're planning to put on your resume when you try to apply to a real mmo company?

Originally posted by orthotdh

Agricola1,

What if tomorrow a movie star investor puts 50 million more into the game?   Is it still not legit?   What if they reprogram it from zero? What if God programs it himself?  You make some pretty big statements.  I do think success is a steep hill for CME.  Regardless of the failure of CME, can't you attempt a small amount of consideration to the other side?   You make statements that are really not totally, absolutely true.   Perhaps a miracle could happen(?)  Ok, maybe not, but.......hey, why not hope?  I like a lot of your thoughts....but, through the other side a bone a little more often.   You sound like a FanOri of the Anit-FanOri. 

You're right someone with more money than sense could pony up $50 million, but that wouldn't make the company legit. Why you ask? Because if Bill Gates had bailed out Enron it wouldn't have made it a legitamite stable business, they'd have kept on going the same way and eventually it would have imploded at some point. Even with $50 mil and re programming from zero, a minimum of $8 mil goes to paying for the first attempt so you're left with $42 mil now and a plethora of cash sink studios sucking it dry and no one with any real talent would want to work for them due to the terrible reputation as an employer.

I don't think I made any unreasonable statements at all, they're flat broke after flushing $50 million of investors money down the toilet. The CEO owes atleast 4 months of unpaid wages to his staff, he's running a pyramid scheme which is collapsing due to the fact he embezzeled money from it. He's being sued from ex business partners to server providers to landlords for unpaid debts and is now attempting to hide his cash by doing a shady and "convenient" divorce with his wife.

So unless Michael Jackson left Gary Whiting $50 million in his will I don't see how anyone in their right mind would invest in this train wreck, do you?

I make untrue statements? Please point them out and post links to prove it. Everything I've said has been backed up with hard evidence on these forums, just spend a little time looking through threads here and look at this click. If you doubt anything I've posted be specific, I find it interesting all those that doubt me have never been able to post any actual links to anything other than quotes from TKKsnow. A guy that has never even even stepped foot inside the CME offices nor is paid for what he does. I suspect you are another one of those fellows that is convinced blind faith = evidence? If not prove me wrong.

I threw the other side a bone last year when the first round of rumours about unpaid wages happened. I saw no real evidence just a site counting the days, CME denied it was true so I took their word for it. Rumours of a pyramid scheme flared up later, CME denied it so I took their word for it. However rumours persisted and people being let go talked, I did a little digging and discovered I had been lied to. CME had been playing every fan like a bitch, and are still doing it now. Whiting has been playing his employees like a bunch of bitches working in a soccer ball factory in Pakistan. Who exactly am I supposed to give a break? I'm just one guy posting on an internet forum anyway, I couldn't do any damage to prevent SGW being made. I want SGW to reach launch but CME aren't going to be the ones to do it, and everything I've said about them is what they've done to themselves, just because they refuse to comment or deny it doesn't make a difference!

A FanOri of the anti - FanOri? I think on the official forums that's a naysayer, personally I like to call myself a realist. Which means I don't see the glass as either half full or half empty, I just want to know if it's enough to satisfy my thirst or not.

Just incase you didn't know every employee of CME got an email from managment a long time ago selling them an MMOGULS platinum membership. So they all knew about it long ago before TKKsnow posted the denail, but to be fair to TKKsnow he's not an employee so he wouldn't have known anymore than the average poster he was lying to for Gary Whiting. However Khestral knew all to well what the real deal was, but he's still working there and picking up his paycheck.

Originally posted by Kyriesunset

Is this what they call cult mentality?  I just cannot think of any reason to work for a dishonest bunch of people, despite it being a lifelong dream.  How do you wake up and look yourself in the mirror?  Was the hope of getting significant cash bonus or stock off a game worth your values and morals?  

Looked you up on linked in and according to your duties, you: “Direct and oversee operations in Outsourcing, Audio Production, Quality Assurance and Information Systems”   Are you feeling guilty for directing Khestrel in getting the community eager and encouraged that the game was actually ‘in production’ and coming out during the past 4 months?  Is that why you are here? 

Do not even try to pull the BS about how you thought they would get investors.  Gary has been attempting to raise additional funds for nearly a year with little success (except for MMOGULS). Y ou cannot be that naive.   Plus, even if you did get your 8 Million, there is nobody left to make the game.     Reminds me of the underware gnome episode from Southpark;

Phase 1:  Collect Underpants
Phase 2:  ?
Phase 3:  Profit! 

Finally, I wanted to comment on your statement about “fixing bugs”. Maybe if there were enough people left working on the game to move it forward, it was running on a external server with thousands of accounts logged in – now that’s bug fixing. You are all just playing around in an office, while awaiting eviction.   
 

I think this is an exceptionally needless harsh post. Heath posted his honest experiences and offered his perspective, and you're attacking his post as if it was Gary Whiting posting.

Go back a year or two, and look at how they talk about the whole iSNAP idea. It's just described as combining social networks with games. Why would someone who has just landed their dream job suspect that there was an MLM behind it? It's pretty obvious that if any part in MMOGULS was offered to CME employees, it was because money had been misappropriated and it was as an alternative to being paid. Aside from this interaction, and the fact that GW owns both, there is no reason to douse everyone at CME with the MMOGULS schtick. Only upper management ever spoke about it, and not even all of them. A fantastic original idea was turned into a pyramid scheme by GW, and only the Joe Ybarras and Tim Jensons at CME know whether that was the plan all along.

So why would Heath have considered himself as 'working for dishonest people' during his time at CME? Why should he feel guilty for sins committed by higher-ups who he quite possibly never personally met, and was certainly not underneath day to day?

Production [i]is[/i] still going at CME, there are several people working on SGW right now as you well know. Once we pass doomsday #xyz and realise they're still going (though this is doubtful, I am sure that despite the fact nothing will have changed we'll have to listen to 'CME is dead but not telling us yet' instead of 'noone is working on the game'), the relationship between CME and MGM is perfectly fine, it's the relationship between MGM/CME and Gary Whiting that is of concern.

CME is aggressively searching for investors and expect to be in good stead within a month. That they would assert this suggests that deals are close to finalisation. [b][u]CME[/u][/b] is getting this money, not MMOGULS. If this investment is misappropriated I'll jump right in your ship and start firing cannons at the sinking ship, but it's my belief that given how the last 2 years have played out, this is the last chance, MMOGULS is a failure, and the money will go the right way. It's the only way anyone will make a profit.

And pray tell me, why should Khestral not be positive and do his best (with what little he has) to keep the community positive? Is it dishonest to say that though times are hard, people are working on the game? Just because some screenshots are old, that does not constitute dishonesty. They are new in regards to being new to the community they're being shown to. And just because the photos show areas/things you may have seen in beta, that doesn't mean they were taken during beta. If those were the live areas during beta then it's just as likely that those were also areas being worked on this year, you know, fixing bugs from beta. And the quality has increased vastly with the last few shots shown.

Feel free to inanely construe this post as 'FanOri' or some other stupid term, but actually I am just looking at the situation realistically as it is without attacking everyone who is being positive. I'm not blind to the problems CME has/has had. I'm not blind to the departures or what MMOGULS is. I have looked into company records, I have emailed just about everyone involved on every side of the equation. You make alot of good points but you misdirect your criticisms and on the whole, you let certain factors rule your opinion of the whole, when you have to consider a whole lot to get the whole picture. Criticise the Gary Whitings all you want but dont tell me a guy deserves to have you defecate on his heartfelt words and be labelled as a bad person for getting a job he loved so much he went to work for free 8 weeks in a row.

/longtime lurker
 

Jstrike, what you posted is a load of blogone. Isnap was pitched 2006/7, by mid 2008 it had become MMOGULs. Staff went without pay before Christmass and were left struggling, employees had already been offered MMOGULs memberships. So before this year everyone working at CME knew 100% that MMOGULs was involved with CME, I mean they had offices one floor above CME FFS!

I'm not tarring all CME employees with the same brush nor is Kyrie, but those that are working there now have some questionable moral values for sure. They've known since last year that their boss is trying to scam gamers with a pyramid scheme using investors money meant for the game to set it up. They know that their colleagues haven't been paid for atleast 4 months, but because they want to work on an MMORPG they ignore it because they wouldn't have the opportunity to do what they're doing at a legit company.

Several people working on SGW? You're right, but even Aventurine had more than that working on Darkfall. I take several to mean about seven, all unpaid with no money coming in to the studio.

CME (AKA Gary "MMOGULs" Whiting) has been searching for investment aggresively for a whole year now, he may as well be searching for the Lochness monster. It's an economic depression and his company has a reputation worse than SOE,Sigil and Aventurine combined X1,000,000. No one with an ounce of sanity would give him a dime, fact!

Read back about Khestrals dishonesty, he also suffers from an extreme lack of honesty when it comes to answering difficult questions. Why shouldn't he positive? I see no reason not to be positive when you're the effective head of the company most days and the only one in the office recieving a paycheck, in fact he has quite alot to be positive about!

"Criticise the Gary Whitings all you want but dont tell me a guy deserves to have you defecate on his heartfelt words and be labelled as a bad person for getting a job he loved so much he went to work for free 8 weeks in a row."
 

Well maybe Gary Whiting is being labeled a bad person for doing a job he loves? Does he deserve to be defecated on? What do you think? I doubt Khestral has gone without pay, but a guy that works 8 weeks in a row for no pay is called a sucker where I come from and I see no reason he should be given kudos for that.

You're just trying to pretend that the pyramid scheme, court cases and missed payroll for four months is a mere hiccup and it'll be alright soon. Yet I see no evidence to confirm that theory, all I know is that companies in this position go tits up more often than not. Khestral has known about MMOGULs for a longtime, but you seem to believe it's OK because he hasn't mentioned it to anyone. Kind of like the concentration camp guards trying to tell the judge that they had no idea what was going on, they just watched the gates and kept the oven stoked!

In fact I see a placard hanging over the doorway into the CME lobby it reads "Arbeit macht frei", and gets you a free lunch!

Originally posted by Agricola1

Jstrike, what you posted is a load of blogone. Isnap was pitched 2006/7, by mid 2008 it had become MMOGULs. Staff went without pay before Christmass and were left struggling, employees had already been offered MMOGULs memberships. So before this year everyone working at CME knew 100% that MMOGULs was involved with CME, I mean they had offices one floor above CME FFS!

I'm not tarring all CME employees with the same brush nor is Kyrie, but those that are working there now have some questionable moral values for sure. They've known since last year that their boss is trying to scam gamers with a pyramid scheme using investors money meant for the game to set it up. They know that their colleagues haven't been paid for atleast 4 months, but because they want to work on an MMORPG they ignore it because they wouldn't have the opportunity to do what they're doing at a legit company.

Several people working on SGW? You're right, but even Aventurine had more than that working on Darkfall. I take several to mean about seven, all unpaid with no money coming in to the studio.

CME (AKA Gary "MMOGULs" Whiting) has been searching for investment aggresively for a whole year now, he may as well be searching for the Lochness monster. It's an economic depression and his company has a reputation worse than SOE,Sigil and Aventurine combined X1,000,000. No one with an ounce of sanity would give him a dime, fact!

Read back about Khestrals dishonesty, he also suffers from an extreme lack of honesty when it comes to answering difficult questions. Why shouldn't he positive? I see no reason not to be positive when you're the effective head of the company most days and the only one in the office recieving a paycheck, in fact he has quite alot to be positive about!

"Criticise the Gary Whitings all you want but dont tell me a guy deserves to have you defecate on his heartfelt words and be labelled as a bad person for getting a job he loved so much he went to work for free 8 weeks in a row."
 

Well maybe Gary Whiting is being labeled a bad person for doing a job he loves? Does he deserve to be defecated on? What do you think? I doubt Khestral has gone without pay, but a guy that works 8 weeks in a row for no pay is called a sucker where I come from and I see no reason he should be given kudos for that.

You're just trying to pretend that the pyramid scheme, court cases and missed payroll for four months is a mere hiccup and it'll be alright soon. Yet I see no evidence to confirm that theory, all I know is that companies in this position go tits up more often than not. Khestral has known about MMOGULs for a longtime, but you seem to believe it's OK because he hasn't mentioned it to anyone. Kind of like the concentration camp guards trying to tell the judge that they had no idea what was going on, they just watched the gates and kept the oven stoked!

In fact I see a placard hanging over the doorway into the CME lobby it reads "Arbeit macht frei", and gets you a free lunch!

MMOGULS is a circular argument. We don't know who knew what when, when it comes to the individual devs. To my knowledge they were only offered MMOGULS when pay dried up. The fact they are in the same building really doesn't mean alot, when we know they are owned by the same person. That doesn't mean they explicitly interact with eachother. Employees being offered MMOGULS instead of pay is akin to being offered a company holiday, except with an unfortunate negative connotation. Who is to say how many people said no and left? Who's to say Khestral said yes to the offer? Who's to say anyone did?

Not tarring everyone with the same brush? Then please justify why Heath just got made to look bad for posting something that wasn't negative? If he'd come here and been negative, or come and lied, people would be all over him. Unfortunately the status quo here at the moment is 'if its not a bad comment, we dont want to hear it'.

I'd like to see proof that Doug Doine is the only person being paid, as to my knowledge that was an off the cuff remark that's been perpetuated as fact. Lack of honesty with direct questions...You do realise that there are things that can't legally be disclosed? You do realise that those things don't exactly come under his job description as it is?

The GW loving his job/8 weeks no pay is a sucker/Khestral hasn't gone without pay bit of your post was so convoluted that there's no effective way to reply to it without going in circles.

I haven't pretended anything is a hiccup. I haven't pretended there are no problems and I havent marginalised what problems there are/have been/might be. Throw cute metaphors at me if you like but at the end of the day I said nothing of the sort.

At the end of the day the core reason I posted still stands, Heath should not have stones thrown at him for being passionate about his work. That doesn't mean you have to pity him, that just means there's no grounds to be aggressive towards him.

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Tylantia

He hasn't pretended or lied once. Please state the sources to prove me wrong however.

 

As for the topic as a whole, going over and over and over (yes I'm looking at you agri) while stating its to "speak out" is going to do nothing as far as the game situation is. It does however boost ones e-peen as far as I'm seeing....

 

Well let's be frank, you are a FanOri that believes this game is going to make launch and everything is fine and they're having a media blackout so that they can get some real hard work in. Oh and you believe they're all being paid and that MMOGULs has nothing to do with CME.

Now onto the facts about Khestral, do you remember this thread? click

I couldn't find his original thread promising pics every two weeks (deleted?)

Khestral: "We have been posting screens of the game every two weeks for a bit now" dated June. A lie.

Khestral: "Truth be told we would rather send out quality and not quantity when it comes to shots... we don't want to send out random shot 01 that will not answer questions." Another lie.
 

Khestral: "Even with all the folks looking under every rock I still say this is the best gaming community I have ever worked with in all my years, and for that I thank you" now this is just crazy talk!

Khestral: "I am having a list made to give directly to the prod/dev groups" How does he give it to them directly since they no longer work there?

That's from one thread.

Truth be told I've seen more and better work done on the new sig he has each time he posts, we know about no one getting paid for four months now. I reckon Khestral is one of the few getting paid, unless he can pay his utility bills with enthusiasm for a lost cause and his rent with bull****. If he is working for free then it's for a con man that's using the SG name to run a pyramid scheme and prey upon the poor and desperate during these hard times. Do you realize this? Or do you just choose to pretend it isn't happening?

Concerning the post about all the great people working for free that are progressing game development. You said yourself you knew nothing about actually working on an MMORPG until all the people of consequence left due to not being paid and you were allowed to get your hands on it. To my knowledge no MMORPG company got a game to launch by this method, Even McQuaid kept up with payroll right until the end! This game won't reach launch unless someone is paid to make it, that's a fact. A bunch of guys learning as they go on someone elses work are doing more harm than good, even if they don't know it.

A company that defaults on the payroll for an entire quarter (4 months now) isn't legit, FACT! FanOri or not it's a fact and CME are no longer legit. Also ask Khestral what he knows about MMOGULs, if he's such an up front an honest friend he'll let you know how he was pitched the idea by Tim Jenson a while back ... but keep it a secret!

You do like to hear the sound of your own voice don't you ;)

Now to cross examine your minefield of babble.

" Well let's be frank, you are a FanOri that believes this game is going to make launch and everything is fine and they're having a media blackout so that they can get some real hard work in. Oh and you believe they're all being paid and that MMOGULs has nothing to do with CME. "

Don't put words into my mouth, first example of you either assuming whatever pops into your frail mind, or not even bothering to ask/speak to me.

As for the rest of your "quotes" yuor twisting the interpretation and meaning of everything to suit your own agenda. Yes CME was mis-managed. Yes they are in trouble financially. Yes alot of staff have gone, but then again alot have come onboard - swings and roundabouts.

The fact you are piling all of your, what I can only describe ill-gotten hate onto one person, who quite frankly doesn't deserve your drivvle is beyond forgiveness.

I suggest that you start proof reading your own posts and remember that in any forum it is against EVERY one to not only name and shame for any given reason; but to also constantly bad mouth them WITHOUT them even stooping to your level and replying.

Seriously Agri, you hate Stargate Worlds, the company and whatever/whoever is involved. Leave.

Originally posted by Tylantia

 

Seriously Agri, you hate Stargate Worlds, the company and whatever/whoever is involved. Leave.

This isn't Khestral's playground here. This is a private site with much different rules. Arguing your points or whatever is one thing. Telling people to leave because you apparently can't handle what they type just earns you a few chuckles, nothing more.

And what is there not to hate, really? The company is a joke run by a bigger joke. Investors have been ripped off. Some devs have been ripped off. There are devs who have been hurt by joining this fiasco and they are the only ones that I'd consider worth anything and feel sorry for. There are also devs who are just as guilty as Whiting, if not by action, then by inaction. They deserve whatever they get.

Merxion spoke his mind. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time but I won't when I see great people taking rage from folks who have no place else to fling it.  I hired Merxion, I'm the guy he mentioned when he indicated a friend said "hey remember we always wanted to work on an mmo?".  I've known him since the day Everquest opened.  There was no person more honest, more straight forward and more wanting success than Merx at CME.  I say that from my perspective of course but he was, and is, a better person than I am and he survived at CME longer than my threshold would allow me to.    And for someone like me, to have brought him in, and his family, only for a year later for it to fall apart.. there's also no small amount of guilt. He wasn't the only person I hired, he wasn't the only person who's life wasn't changed radically by the experience. I hired them, I gave them the spiel about CME, SGW, the company, the funding, what a great chance it was.  Those words came out of my mouth and now, what are they worth? He keeps telling me it was for the better, but one of his best talents is finding the silver lining.

For some of us, yes, the writing was on the wall but we refused to see it.  Affecting change would've been impossible anyway, but you'd have to be there to know that.  Blame us if you want to, we're just as angry and upset.  Some of us could've quit sooner I suppose, maybe.  But honestly, when you're staring at a dream in the face, and the chance, even if it was a shrinking chance, to launch something truly different, to be a part of something unique like SGW was meant to be... well, you hang on as long as you can.  In CME's case it wasn't just finances, yes, you hung on as long as your moral ethics could allow you too.  For some of us, it was our job to protect others from some of the drama that seems public today but was behind closed doors then.  Some of us could answer a lot of questions asked here, but honestly the only answers we have is our perspective and perspective is one thing there is ample supply of.  Maybe some day, after the wounds heal, some of us will talk, if anyone cares besides us then.  In time, SGW will be a faded memory and there will be a new target of internet MMO rage.  

If any employee current or past, walks away from CME having gotten rich, or for the better, they weren't and won't be the rank and file.  For many it ruined lives, destroyed savings, cost marriages. You think you as fans you are suffering?  You can't comprehend what some people  have gone through and are still going through.  And that's weak consolation I know.  The best many can hope for is that someone else will take them on, show them how things get done right and move on with their lives.  Some may never be able to get past it however.  Some may never get another chance.  For some, CME may be the closest they ever got to a dream and that is probably one of the saddest realities.

To the investors in the company, the amazing fan base, to MGM... I wish I could offer an apology that would make a difference.  I really do.  All I can say is we tried.  Most of the employees didn't just try, they gave it their all.   Maybe if we had 40 more people like Merx we would've done better, who knows.  I wish I could've changed things, I wish SGW was about ready to ship (hell when I came on board it was supposed to ship in '08).  I wish I was playing SGW with everyone else right now, running my archaeologist through missions, pointing at the screen and saying "I helped with that!".  But I'm not.  Like Merx, I'm just another gamer who had a dream, and had a chance, and something went horribly wrong along the way.  And it couldn't have happened to a nicer person, or people than many of those I knew at CME.

And trust me, for those employees who are still working at CME, or left, no one knows heart ache better.  Mistakes were made, huge mistakes.  Mistakes that wouldn't be worth going into.  For every bonehead decision, for every ego that clashed, there was also powerful intent to make a a great game.  The handful that are left at CME by the way are some of the most talented individuals I've ever known. I tip my hat to them.

CME-SegFault

Former Director of IT

RIP SGW

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Tylantia

 

Seriously Agri, you hate Stargate Worlds, the company and whatever/whoever is involved. Leave.

 

This isn't Khestral's playground here. This is a private site with much different rules. Arguing your points or whatever is one thing. Telling people to leave because you apparently can't handle what they type just earns you a few chuckles, nothing more.

And what is there not to hate, really? The company is a joke run by a bigger joke. Investors have been ripped off. Some devs have been ripped off. There are devs who have been hurt by joining this fiasco and they are the only ones that I'd consider worth anything and feel sorry for. There are also devs who are just as guilty as Whiting, if not by action, then by inaction. They deserve whatever they get.

Your correct it isn't a Khestral playground, however people directing any and all hate at him just because hes only one of few actually replying / talking to people is down right rude.

And to quote the CoC for MMORPG.com's forums :

" Flaming and Personal Attacks

* MMORPG.com does not tolerate personal attacks on other posters. Please keep your arguments and posts on topic, and argue the ideas and topics of the thread instead of insulting other users.
Example: Telling someone that you disagree with their argument is tolerated, while calling someone inappropriate names is not. "

As for the "hate" part, it seems everyone is directing it at the WHOLE company. As the 2 Ex-CME members have stated, and as we should all know by now. Just because you work for someone, it does not automatically mean they are responsible or directly accountable for their peers descisions / demands / rules.

The people who messed up whatever and wherever are the ones hate should be directed at, IF you seriously have to to do it; NOT the people beneath.

-------------------------------

Now as this convo will never end I'll leave that as my last post on this matter, you can reply with all the counter-arguements you wish; I won't be dragged into a quote pyramid extravanganza.

Vestas that was perhaps the first honest public post made by a Developer, I sense your feelings of regret and guilt towards your friends and disappointment concerning SGW and what it could of/ should of been. I thankyou for not given a list of bologne excuses or trying to play the eternal optimist but stating it how it is. You don't want to talk publicly about what went on so you say so instead of not mentioning it.

As for what happened, you had the best intentions and saw a thriving company about to put out a potential blockbuster of an MMORPG, as did I and many others. There never was a reason to doubt that, and I'd have got my friends on board if that was their dream to.

I often question why the people that are still there are, if they haven't been paid for four months and can see this dream will remain just that why would you help maintain the smoke screen? After witnessing what you've described and not been paid for four months I'd be flipping burgers for a living rather than dreaming for nothing at CME, hell after work I can dream!

However I wish you good fortune and hope you find something elsewhere and can maybe help out your friends at some point in the future, may the force be with you!

Tylantia:   "I won't be dragged into a quote pyramid extravanganza."
 

Now am I the only one that sees the irony in that?

I once worked for a dishonest company so I am in a great position to ask these hard questions. In my case, my company stole a $25,000 overpayment from one of the largest, most cherished organizations that help people in down times. I asked the CEO direct questions about the incident, when he said they were keeping the money, I immediately turned in my resignation. Call it ethics, something people lack currently due to the almighty buck.

Nobody picked on Heath or made personal attacks like those that they did with the blizzard mount poster. If I wanted to attack Heath personally, I would make comments about how he said he “learned more in 1 year at CME than his 4 years in school.” Well, DOH – he has an on-line degree. Of course, he would learn more!  However, I did not; I only asked direct, tough questions. The same questions a future employer is going to wonder. 
 

Regarding working for dishonest people: MMOGULS was born in October/November, 2008? It was immediately debated whether it was a legit operation. Therefore, when you stick around for 8-9 months after illegal activity is unearthed, you are working for a dishonest employer, and in the end working for free to boot! 
 

At the director level, you are privy to a lot of information (as Vestas mentioned). You are required to not only shield your employees from the BS, but also protect them. There is additional drama/shit that went down at CME that I have been made aware of but cannot repeat because lack of fact checking.  However, I do know that people at the director level (and above) were aware.

So by sticking around as long as you did, you gave the workers underneath you false hope that everything was okay, or that it would work it’s self out in ‘two weeks’ (standing joke at CME about possibility of getting funding or pay).
 

You all state you could not change what was happening at CME. That is a huge management flaw, especially when your director level employees cannot make a difference. Who is to say if they get 8 Million that, it would not happen again? I bet Tim, Rod, Joe, etc. have all that money pre-spent helping their friend’s companies with work.   
 

You mention that you could not get a direct answer as to who birthed MMOGULS or who knew about it. Was Tim, Joe or Rod asked directly? Was their answer “I don’t know, I’ll get back to you on that” Did you hold them accountable? If you answer is no, then you helped rip off the shareholders (even the MMOGULS people) and ruin the lives of the employees involved just as much as Gary did. You let it happen, you turned a blind eye and you did nothing. 

Side Note:  I noticed that the newest MMOGULS web sites are lacking stargate worlds logos, etc.   Do they know the end is near too?
 

I have faith, signed up for beta!!!!