Originally posted by Valentina

if they kept it the same as ffxi people wouldn't bother porting over, and new players would hate it because it'd be tedious and annoying to do anything with.

Sure some would stay with ffxi but a major # would leave.

BTW I think I can speak for anyone who loved FFXI when I say that the FFXI fans do not think its tedious or annoying.

I even think if FFXIV was more like FFXI that it could gain some of the old EQ fans as well.

The thing that sets FFXI aside from other games in the genre is the grinding is actually FUN. Leveling in groups is fun as well, especially with the renkeis; I used to be entertained for hours straight with a light or darkness renkei every minute. I for one have a FFXI account with maxed chars, however I have ended up shelving it til the release of XIV, at which point I will play FFXIV, of course. I respect Square enix greatly, and have faith that they will not save in to the casual MMO market style, and instead keep a few options for leveling solo, but with the greatest exp and rewards being reserved for group play, hopefully at the 10+ players level. In short, I feel that if they casualized the game, it would actually cause it to fail.

Originally posted by radfreak

Originally posted by Eagler777

No man, your dead wrong, and you missed the point of my post.  I simply wanted to point out that soloing was possible, because people keep saying "I don't care if its hard and less rewarding, I just don't to sit in Jeuno all day without the option to solo while I wait for a party".  So I made it 100% clear that FFXI was exactly this way already.

 

Your also wrong about the jobs.  Yes, for BST you need to be level 30 to unlock it.. but what does it matter, solo your way there and unlock it... besides your going to need a subjob anyway, so level which ever you chose to use as your sub and get it to 30.  Then your set.

 

As for NIN.  Um... I do believe I said "yes, it would be expensive".  I would also like to point out that I don't care which way you go with NIN, your going to HAVE to get utsusemi: ichi and ni... solo or grouping... so your point is void.

 

For BLM, all you really need for BLM to solo is capped abilities, some decent gear and all the spells.  Again, your going to need all of this whether you solo or go grouped anyway.  Sleep, bind, debuff, nuke... rinse and repeat.... sleep and bind being the main spells that allow BLM to solo, and they come pretty early on... so again, your wrong.

 

Again I can go on, but I've made my point. Soloing was possible in FFXI, I'm sorry, but it was. 

 

Yes, you are right about soloing, they can solo... i agree., but since you know quite a lot of soloing...

Can you tell little more about when they can start solo?

It's no-brainer that you can solo with anything if your lvl is high and has all abilities, but your soloing is based on character with high lvl.... my question is... can you reach high enough lvl via soloing?  from lvl 20?

Please read the post before you make comments.  I actually originaly posted 5 jobs in FFXI that were soloable.. and stated that I could go on... but I wasnt gonna sit there and go through every job.  I made my point. 
 

Soloing was not just high end.  At any level, any job could solo, given the fact that you actually know how to play your job, and fight mobs that are weak to your job type.  Now this is the part that for some reason it seems you cannot understand.  YOU WILL NOT GAIN A BILLION EXP IN AN HOUR.  IT WILL NOT BE AS FAST AS LEVELING IN A PARTY.  IT WILL BE HARD.  IT WILL BE RISKY.  IT WILL BE DANGEROUS.  THE REWARD WILL NOT BE GREAT FOR THE MOST PART.  IT WILL BE TIME COMSUMING.  IT IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Now you answer me a question or two.  First, why do people want a completely soloable MMORPG?  I mean, I don't play MMORPG's to play by myself, it just don't make sense.  Now I can see wanting to have the ability to escape and go out by yourself once in awhile, or when there is nothing else to do.. but that option was provided.  The truth is that it seems people keep saying this is all they want, but really they want more.  People did not solo in FFXI because it was alot less rewarding and everything else I stated above than grouping.. so people just overlooked it.  All these people really want is "easy". 

Second, why do people keep confusing "casual friendly" with "soloability".   To me, "casual friendly" means that there will be more quests to do that are more rewarding.  Or maybe they will not make us do genkais.  Maybe they will simply impliment more ideas in the game that people can get involved in that will give them something to do when they log on, and it won't take along time to do a "run" of whatever this may be.  "Soloability"  means that everyone can take every job and level it to level cap just about as fast... or as fast as people that decide to group up to make parties.  So again, why is everyone confusing the two?

My definition of soloability is the ability to solo for a couple of hours and get something done. Soloability and Casual friendly actually go hand in hand. The casual player can only play a couple of hours or so a night and won't be able to dedicate himself to a group. Because he/she cannot dedicate himself to a group he will have to solo. While soloing he will want to accomplish something or he will get disgusted and quit the game. In FFXI if you were to solo it would take you 5 times longer to level than if you were in a group if not longer. Obviously in a party you should get about 2 to 3 times the experience as when you solo, but not 5+ times the amount. This does not equal soloability. You might as well sit in Jeuno for an hour and then join a group for just an hour if that's the case. So I am sure that SE will basically just adjust the amount of  progression a player can make on his/her own. With all of that said I am a hardcore player and usually put in several hours in one day. I am a strong believer in grouping, however it is nice to have the option of soloing from time to time.

I'm sorry, I just don't agree.  I know when I was level 43ish on my NIN, I went out soloing because I wanted to have fun, I do lots of things like that.  I can remember fighting EM to T mobs and made around 2 - 2.5k an hour exp.  thats not bad.  The BLM I was telling you about that loved to solo.. he could get 5-6k  an hour.  Just because you didn't put the effort into it.. or have the skills and knowledge to do it, does not mean it wasn't true or possible.

If soloers want to play MMORPG's, which still don't make sense to me.. then they can go find some other game to play... leave FFXI to the real gamers :D.  Furthermore.. I don't want a bunch of people that have soloed all the way to "level cap" getting to end game and not knowing what the hell they are doing.  Besides, end game gets crowed as it is.  I'd actually prefer that SE made it harded or longer for people to make it to end game :P

I went from a brand new account and got to lvl 55 in 2 weeks. I believe I have the skill. All I'm saying is  that other people should be able to play casually and feel accomplished. I have a maxed character with all jobs, but that isn't important. It's just an opinion. No need to attack my  "skills" lol.. Off to the store with my gf now, I'll be back on to reply in a couple hours. Not trying to attack anyone just trying to stick up for the people that don't have the time to play games like I do.

 I think a lot of people that play the game still are wanting soloing more so to just fill the time they have to wait in finding a group. I love group play more than soloing, I just hate having nothing to do for hours while waiting.

Originally posted by Rajen

 I think a lot of people that play the game still are wanting soloing more so to just fill the time they have to wait in finding a group. I love group play more than soloing, I just hate having nothing to do for hours while waiting.

The logical thing to do while lfg in FFXI is killing other things, usually to gain materials to sell to get gil to buy gear. If you spend your lfg time sitting around like a bump on a log,  then you should feel like said bump (bored as heck.) If you spend the time reading, watching tv, etc, thats also fine...point is that yes, at some points it can take hours to find a group in ffxi, though XIV shouldn't have that issue...as long as they don't implement exp gain on every quest in the entire effen game like some MMOs, they should be fine. Soloing in a MMORPG should be the least rewarding on a per hour basis, otherwise people will completely forsake the "MMO" part of the game. When you've a reputation for providing excellent group PvE play, it would be unwise to suddenly decide to switch to mediocre solo play as a focus, wouldn't you agree?

I agree 100%.. but for some reason this concept is to hard for people to understand. 

So why not play just the old game than instead of making a new one with basically the...same...thing?

Oh okay. Your epeen needs to be bigger than everyone elses! Gotcha!

Originally posted by Cavall

Originally posted by Rajen

 I think a lot of people that play the game still are wanting soloing more so to just fill the time they have to wait in finding a group. I love group play more than soloing, I just hate having nothing to do for hours while waiting.

 

The logical thing to do while lfg in FFXI is killing other things, usually to gain materials to sell to get gil to buy gear. If you spend your lfg time sitting around like a bump on a log,  then you should feel like said bump (bored as heck.) If you spend the time reading, watching tv, etc, thats also fine...point is that yes, at some points it can take hours to find a group in ffxi, though XIV shouldn't have that issue...as long as they don't implement exp gain on every quest in the entire effen game like some MMOs, they should be fine. Soloing in a MMORPG should be the least rewarding on a per hour basis, otherwise people will completely forsake the "MMO" part of the game. When you've a reputation for providing excellent group PvE play, it would be unwise to suddenly decide to switch to mediocre solo play as a focus, wouldn't you agree?

Sitting in your mog house LFG is a CHOICE. There is a lot of stuff you could do like you pointed out. Thats why I dont understand where some of these people are coming from when they say they hated lfg. IMO they just were not resourcefull enough and deserved sitting for hours LFG. At times I would go watch TV, go farm stuff, or even solo some exp. My BLM could rake in the xp solo on jellys, or I could take my pld/nin and go own some bones for decent exp. Just like eagler has been saying If you knew HOW to play the game then you had no problem. All you had to do was keep a warping item on you for when you got a PT invite. FFXI did a good job of weeding the people who dont know 2 squats on how to play a game thats one reason that the community is so strong in ffxi.

I agree with your last sentance as well. It would be very unwise for SE to forsake their loyal and strong fanbase for trying to go to casual and solo friendly. As much as the solo'ers and casual players may hate to admitt it SE has a big enough following that they dont really need them. Sure it would be nice to have them thats why I think SE will throw them a bone but I just cant see them ditching their loyal fans. 

Originally posted by Swanea

So why not play just the old game than instead of making a new one with basically the...same...thing?

Oh okay. Your epeen needs to be bigger than everyone elses! Gotcha!

Just because your close minded isn't my fault.. so don't attack me.  I don't want "basically the...same...thing"  but there is nothing wrong with NOT wanting a group centric game to go solo you retard.  If your point of view is not the same as someone else's.. you don't have to attack, state your opinion, make your point, and move on.  But of course your little brain obviously can't handle the fact that just because 1.. let me repeat 1 aspect of a game is not changed, that it can still be a completely different game. 

Originally posted by Swanea

So why not play just the old game than instead of making a new one with basically the...same...thing?

Oh okay. Your epeen needs to be bigger than everyone elses! Gotcha!

Well if thats your best argument lets just turn the tables, if solo'ers and casuals want solo and casual stuff why not just go back to WoW.

Well played ^^

Originally posted by Cavall

 

The logical thing to do while lfg in FFXI is killing other things, usually to gain materials to sell to get gil to buy gear. If you spend your lfg time sitting around like a bump on a log,  then you should feel like said bump (bored as heck.) If you spend the time reading, watching tv, etc, thats also fine...point is that yes, at some points it can take hours to find a group in ffxi, though XIV shouldn't have that issue...as long as they don't implement exp gain on every quest in the entire effen game like some MMOs, they should be fine. Soloing in a MMORPG should be the least rewarding on a per hour basis, otherwise people will completely forsake the "MMO" part of the game. When you've a reputation for providing excellent group PvE play, it would be unwise to suddenly decide to switch to mediocre solo play as a focus, wouldn't you agree?

Some people want to log on and just play the game,  soloing a year ago was not effecient enough to bother with, especially if you didn't need GIL (was at the point where I no longer farmed). I still did it but it was out of being bored.

Saying that you can go do something else outside the game doesn't really cut it, you are on the game to play the game and the long waits were a big problem for several jobs that could go a week without seeing an invite. SE simply needs to improve the time it takes to get a group. I remember logging on, putting my flag up and sitting around reading/playing other games until I heard windower tell me I had recieved a /tell hours later

I don't know why this argument about solo play is still going on, the devs already said it was going to happen whether we like it or not, I'm sure they know the majority of people would rather not wait around to play and thats why they did it. When you play a game you aren't suppose to cut it on then go do something else for the day, you're suppose to cut it on and play it.

Originally posted by Rajen

Originally posted by Cavall

 

I don't know why this argument about solo play is still going on, the devs already said it was going to happen whether we like it or not, I'm sure they know the majority of people would rather not wait around to play and thats why they did it. When you play a game you aren't suppose to cut it on then go do something else for the day, you're suppose to cut it on and play it.

I dont recall the devs saying anything about soloing. So link that to me please. They did say aimed at casual in the Q&A. But that is way to vague. Whats casual to SE may not be casual to casual players.

SE doesnt seem to listen a whole lot to its western fanbase and thats the best part about SE.

Originally posted by toddze

 

I dont recall the devs saying anything about soloing. So link that to me please. They did say aimed at casual in the Q&A. But that is way to vague. Whats casual to SE may not be casual to casual players.

SE doesnt seem to listen a whole lot to its western fanbase and thats the best part about SE.

www.youtube.com/watch

It's said in that vid- not the best news I've heard, but if the game's at least somewhat challenging and involving I won't mind the improved solo play.

I dont recall the devs saying anything about soloing. So link that to me please. They did say aimed at casual in the Q&A. But that is way to vague. Whats casual to SE may not be casual to casual players.

SE doesnt seem to listen a whole lot to its western fanbase and thats the best part about SE.

All the proof you need was linked by the person above me in that video with the devs. They start to talk about the solo aspect and group aspect around 4:50. Know your battles before you go and try to debunk someone on them please, i'm sure you know what 'google' is. FFXIV without question will have solo play and we need to just get over it, the majority of people do want it even if we don't like it.

Well I had not seen that video, thx for linking.

That still did not give me enough info. What I took from it is that there will be some things to do solo what those solo things are and how much of a role it will play in the meat of the game is yet to be seen. I can see now that depending on what side of the fence you are on you can definatly bend that video to argue in your favor.

EDIT Example: Maybe you can solo quests and various other things. But maybe soloing quests doesnt increase your Weapon "growth" in which case you have to group to fight higher level mobs. Like he said "do one thing one day and another thing another day." Then some of you guys who need your hand held and be told what to do can quest while lfg.

Edit Edit: So now we get the Quest grind AND Mob grind!!!!!!!!!!! Yup leave it to SE to come up with double the fun.

Thus why don't we wait till more information is released. I'm sure it will be a little more casual friendly.. since thats what they said.... still considering how not soloable it is for a lot of people.. making it a little more friendly will still have it on the non casual side. Time will tell, but I trust them.