Originally posted by LordDmaster

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Thradar

 Would you eat a rotten sandwich just because it's free?

Didn't think so.  F2P mmos are a shadow of subscription based games.  EVERY F2P game I've tried has been utter crap.

 

This is yet another myth that the people who despise F2P games believe. F2P MMOs are successful. Nexon, Aeria Games, IGG, K2 Networks... there's a reason why companies like EA and SOE are starting to explore the business model those companies have been using for years.

 

 

You said it. "F2P MMOs are successful.","there's a reason why companies like EA and SOE are starting to explore the business model those companies have been using for years"
 

More people with lower standareds are playing MMOs. Low cost games being produced. More 3rd world players with low incomes. More kids with Moms and Dads credit cards and to much time on there hands. More home computers. O and more people beleaving that Free means Free. All of this adds upto more $ to devs.

The success of F2P MMOs are based on a different kind of player that is entering the MMO mainstream. It doesn't mean P2P games for those that care about not spending more than a fixed monthly fee are getting killed, they will remain the same, in fact, most of the upcoming releases we are hyped about are subscription based. And the only reason we debate F2P MMOs are because of asian games, those that originally started the thing on MMOs, flooding our market. F2P Western MMOs (with 3D graphics)? All have been P2P failures that switch into F2P in the hopes of getting more players.

Originally posted by Josher

DO people who keep making these "PLAY F2P..." threads get paid by these companies to do so?  Why else would people go out of their way to defend them unless they're profiting off of them, since thats what F2P is all about?  Think about it=)  Its all a part of the game.  The more people you can sucker into playing them, the most stuff you can sell to them.  BRILLIANT!!!

do you mean your getting paid to support p2p game josh ?

Originally posted by Pinkerl

why people despise Free2Play?

 

to me its not different from monthly. free2play cashshpop to win right? well monthly  is buy ingame currency  to win. either way it is currupted on both model. im kindda laylow on mmo now. i mostly play psn and waiting for ff14 see how it do in ps3. hopfully console is less curruption.

 

 

so since both model is no difference.... runes of magic is pretty good.

I don't think that post leaves room for discussion.

If that's your opinion, nothing I could post here about why I dislike RMT games  will really be understandable to you.

If you like RMT games and P2P games, that's fine. I'll only play P2P games, but won't waste time here trying to explain it to you, since from the OP it seems you're not really interested in the answert.

people despise F2P because it isn't free to play

Originally posted by Thradar

 Would you eat a rotten sandwich just because it's free?

Didn't think so.  F2P mmos are a shadow of subscription based games.  EVERY F2P game I've tried has been utter crap.

 

This is yet another myth that the people who despise F2P games believe. F2P MMOs are successful. Nexon, Aeria Games, IGG, K2 Networks... there's a reason why companies like EA and SOE are starting to explore the business model those companies have been using for years.

 

 

You said it. "F2P MMOs are successful.","there's a reason why companies like EA and SOE are starting to explore the business model those companies have been using for years"
 

More people with lower standareds are playing MMOs. Low cost games being produced. More 3rd world players with low incomes. More kids with Moms and Dads credit cards and to much time on there hands. More home computers. O and more people beleaving that Free means Free. All of this adds upto more $ to devs.

 

Getting more players in a F2P game does not mean more money..Matter afact they are losing money..Here's why..You take 100 players..Only 30% will buy from the Item Mall..In which the Item mall is over priced..So that means 30% are also paying for the 70% who dont pay..Now as for P2P..The Revenue is 100% with all the 100 players paying..(Note: Not the true facts but a educated one.)

So now  they say this is a Free game.Is this game really Free? Let say no one pays for the item mall.How long will it take for a Free Game to keep running? I would say not long.How many Free to play games jump from one company to the next?I seen a few that have..How many Free Games that been tweaked like hell to push you for the Item mall? I say ALL..Anyone played Silkroad can tell you that they switch to a Auto Log in.To get away from that you need to buy a ticket that last 4 weeks.Then your problem of logging in.You don't have to wait 15 minutes to over a hour to get in..

The Free to play games most of them come from either China or Korean and are half ass made or been in beta for longer than normal for a game.One thing that makes me laugh is that they get the Item mall up and running with no problem.But as for the game it self..Poor translation and the game been in beta for years.(Unfinished Product).As everyone knows.. Allot  of Free to play game really sucks and are over priced with item mall, with that a unfinished product to boot.So i will ask what everyone else been asking...

Is there a good free to play MMO out there?

Mod edit spelling

 I will make it simple for you why I never will play a free to play game unless they come up with a different method for income. The current income model is items for sale in an item shop.

Video games are about playing a character to obtain levels, items, boss kills etc etc. In short video games are about playing the game. I will not ever play a game where items can be bought in game. I don't care what type of item it is, they should be obtained in game for me to call the game a game. Buying items in a game isn't what I call fun. 

I will play a free to play game IF they used a different model. I would play free to play if they sold mini expansion packs every month or some other time period. I would play a free to play game if they had advertisments pasted all over the log in screen and zone load screens. I would play a free to play game if they sold out of game merchandise (keyboards, mice, toys, guides, maps etc).

Once an item shop is put in though I am through with even thinking about the game. The new game coming out "Champions Online", once they mentioned "cryptic bucks" I no longer even look at that game, just as I don't bother to think about playing Everquest, Everquest 2, nor any other game that puts an item shop in.

Well, I don't despise it but I won't play it.  The reason for me is just that even though the games are 'free to play' they geared to get money from you in a lot of other little ways and while thats not a big deal itself, I just don't want to have to be thinking about real world finances when playing a game. I prefer to pay a fee and never have to think about real money again when I play. Thats just me tho.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by Josher

DO people who keep making these "PLAY F2P..." threads get paid by these companies to do so?  Why else would people go out of their way to defend them unless they're profiting off of them, since thats what F2P is all about?  Think about it=)  Its all a part of the game.  The more people you can sucker into playing them, the most stuff you can sell to them.  BRILLIANT!!!

do you mean your getting paid to support p2p game josh ?

No, but I can see players getting paid to spam forums about how F2P games are just free and just as good as P2P, when its clear they're in a different league.  Bait and switch.  "Play our free game.  Really its free.  You never have to pay a dime to advance or have fun."   Contrary to the facts, you still see people saying how you can play for free, when its an outright lie.  Its free to log-in and grind 10000000 gerbils.  Thats about it.  Ya, fun game.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by Josher

DO people who keep making these "PLAY F2P..." threads get paid by these companies to do so?  Why else would people go out of their way to defend them unless they're profiting off of them, since thats what F2P is all about?  Think about it=)  Its all a part of the game.  The more people you can sucker into playing them, the most stuff you can sell to them.  BRILLIANT!!!

do you mean your getting paid to support p2p game josh ?

hm my personal impression is:

1. there is a large base of "asian" game supporters here who fight for whatever microtransaction crap comes along
2. i do not think any reasonable person does this for nothing  :)
3. there is a tight competition in the microtransaction game market, it is tough to follow all the realeases which spam the mmorpg market. so evey new release tries to get their "supporter" in generating cash for their companies
4. many former p2p games went microtransaction for the one and only reasothat they were a financial desater not beeing able to survive in the p2p market, remember crap like DnL and other bullshit that wennt microtransaction because of bankrupt companies.!
5. such game ar an easy way for companies to deliver unfinished products and let the customers pay for everything that should have been included in a properly designed game
6. it looks also an easy way to milk every dime out of the customers as everything "special" has to be payed in cash. they think its easy to get more out of the customers for less value!

I don't despise them - visually a lot of them are very cool to look at and a lot of the P2P games aren't any better - it's just I can't see how the F2P model is ever likely to create the sort of game I'd like. The ideal item shop game would be one that succesfully focuses on the psychological addictions these games can create and then successfully milks that addiction. P2Ps aren't much different in some ways except the psychological addiction in the past was always an accidental side effect rather than the core purpose. P2Ps seem to be moving in the same direction however so i don't think the distinction will last long.

The only game i could imagine being hooked on which had a F2P element would be a P2P game that had a F2P element for a specific purpose i.e the free players were there to provide extra entertainment for the paying customers. Examples might be free players playing monsters or a Planetside type game where the paying players had all levelled up to tanks and planes and mechs etc and there wasn't enough grunts so free players could play up to level 10 to provide the infantry - something like that.

In a nutshell I think the bast way to make money from item shops leads to game designs that don't appeal to me i.e linear grinds or games that end in PvP with combat advantages bought at the item shop. I can just imagine how friendly that would be.

I do like trying them out for a few days just to look at the scenary and the sexy elf chick armor pixels. If I was thirteen again that would probably keep me playing on it's own, but not nowadays :)

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by Josher

DO people who keep making these "PLAY F2P..." threads get paid by these companies to do so?  Why else would people go out of their way to defend them unless they're profiting off of them, since thats what F2P is all about?  Think about it=)  Its all a part of the game.  The more people you can sucker into playing them, the most stuff you can sell to them.  BRILLIANT!!!

do you mean your getting paid to support p2p game josh ?

 

hm my personal impression is:

1. there is a large base of "asian" game supporters here who fight for whatever microtransaction crap comes along
2. i do not think any reasonable person does this for nothing  :)
3. there is a tight competition in the microtransaction game market, it is tough to follow all the realeases which spam the mmorpg market. so evey new release tries to get their "supporter" in generating cash for their companies
4. many former p2p games went microtransaction for the one and only reasothat they were a financial desater not beeing able to survive in the p2p market, remember crap like DnL and other bullshit that wennt microtransaction because of bankrupt companies.!
5. such game ar an easy way for companies to deliver unfinished products and let the customers pay for everything that should have been included in a properly designed game
6. it looks also an easy way to milk every dime out of the customers as everything "special" has to be payed in cash. they think its easy to get more out of the customers for less value!

 

Thanks for spelling it out since some people can't read between the lines=)

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by Josher

DO people who keep making these "PLAY F2P..." threads get paid by these companies to do so?  Why else would people go out of their way to defend them unless they're profiting off of them, since thats what F2P is all about?  Think about it=)  Its all a part of the game.  The more people you can sucker into playing them, the most stuff you can sell to them.  BRILLIANT!!!

do you mean your getting paid to support p2p game josh ?

 

hm my personal impression is:

1. there is a large base of "asian" game supporters here who fight for whatever microtransaction crap comes along
2. i do not think any reasonable person does this for nothing  :)
3. there is a tight competition in the microtransaction game market, it is tough to follow all the realeases which spam the mmorpg market. so evey new release tries to get their "supporter" in generating cash for their companies
4. many former p2p games went microtransaction for the one and only reasothat they were a financial desater not beeing able to survive in the p2p market, remember crap like DnL and other bullshit that wennt microtransaction because of bankrupt companies.!
5. such game ar an easy way for companies to deliver unfinished products and let the customers pay for everything that should have been included in a properly designed game
6. it looks also an easy way to milk every dime out of the customers as everything "special" has to be payed in cash. they think its easy to get more out of the customers for less value!

 

ummm #5...how is that different with P2P games? How many times have you gone and bought a $50 box, with an unfinished product?

Again, I play F2P games, all the time, I enjoy them, and I don't pay a dime. If anyone thinks that you have to pay, then you're missing the point of these games. I don't have to have the coolest n best gear. I don't need it. I don't need the cool looking accessories. And I don't want the power ups. None of those things are worth my money. I'm to old to try to be "cool".

When I get into a game, whether its p2p or free, my whole goal is to have fun, meet people, and advance my character/story (in that order) I don't try to "win" because outside of pvp (which i don't do) there is no "winning" in MMORPG's. These games are about the sense of an adventure, not about the end of it.

Originally posted by merv808

When I get into a game, whether its p2p or free, my whole goal is to have fun, meet people, and advance my character/story (in that order) I don't try to "win" because outside of pvp (which i don't do) there is no "winning" in MMORPG's. These games are about the sense of an adventure, not about the end of it.

Exactly merv808, that's one of the reasons I love to play MMOs. I love meeting new people and having fun, most of all. I do like loot, but it doesn't matter to me if it's on a free or pay to play game.

Originally posted by Pinkerl

why people despise Free2Play?

 

to me its not different from monthly. free2play cashshpop to win right? well monthly  is buy ingame currency  to win. either way it is currupted on both model. im kindda laylow on mmo now. i mostly play psn and waiting for ff14 see how it do in ps3. hopfully console is less curruption.

 

 

so since both model is no difference.... runes of magic is pretty good.

Because free games attract a whole new level of "idiots".

No offense.

Indeed they do - cheapskate idiots.

Good and fair question.  The answer is also pretty simple.

The ppl that despite Free2play games are those that play MMOs 5-8 hours per day and have no job - no life and couldn't handle other players beeing allowed to enjoy a game without same amount of playing time.  In other words.  They are loosers - and loud mouths that have plenty of time to talk on forums on why they despise F2P games.

Many of the better F2P games out today are actually really good but could spend more time on polishing and preventing bots and cheaters.  Micropayments are actually quite good in my sence cause that way NORMAL ppl can buy "time" to enjoy a game while the LOSERS of real life spend their 5-10 hours on P2P. 

Hilarious answer.

And I thought that it was all about the quality of the MMOs (or the lack of in the case of F2P titles). Especially when talking about the development of those MMOs over time.

not only people who plays 5-8 hours, many other people also despises it.

Okay, the game is free to play, but... this has really great disvantages.

Because it's free, you usually gain less exp, can obtain worse weapons and have less chance to those that pays money for items, so... if everyone pays a monthly fee for playing, everyone will have equal chances, and the game experience is way better, your exp doesn't get nerfed to make you buy exp + items, and you can obtain every weapon by yourself.

Originally posted by Trunkoso

not only people who plays 5-8 hours, many other people also despises it.

 

Okay, the game is free to play, but... this has really great disvantages.

Because it's free, you usually gain less exp, can obtain worse weapons and have less chance to those that pays money for items, so... if everyone pays a monthly fee for playing, everyone will have equal chances, and the game experience is way better, your exp doesn't get nerfed to make you buy exp + items, and you can obtain every weapon by yourself.

Erm - since when does monthly fee mean equal playing ground ?   Those that can play more get more right? 

Equal playing ground would be - you pay a sub for 24 hours per month and ALL play 24 hours per month.

And since when is an MMO played over the internet a game based on equal grounds?   You do know that distance from the server is the MAIN factor in determining the quality of gameplay?  Specially in those more "challenging" P2P including raids and high end PVP.  Do ppl not pay extra for better computers and more bandwhith ? 

Have you ever wonder why majority of good PVP groups are less than 500 miles from the servers ?  Ever wonder why there is no top 5 PVP group coming from Iceland ?     And you talk about equal playing grounds?    Seriously ? 

I have to admit I use to smirk at F2P games until I gave PWI a try, I found it to be surprisingly fun....I think people should not be turned off just because a game has a different income method than the traditional subscription based game.  F2p games are evolving just like other types of MMO's.