why people despise Free2Play?

to me its not different from monthly. free2play cashshpop to win right? well monthly  is buy ingame currency  to win. either way it is currupted on both model. im kindda laylow on mmo now. i mostly play psn and waiting for ff14 see how it do in ps3. hopfully console is less curruption.

so since both model is no difference.... runes of magic is pretty good.

For me I just dont like the idea of having to buy content to win. All these MMO companies keep bitching about gold farmers and item farmers yet here they go doing the same thing.

At least if you pay a sub you're on equal footing with everyone else in game. You have to actualy go and do the content to get the item.

just want to mention alot of free2play these days even sells their own official ingame currency competing with black market.

I think someone needs to define "win" as it applies to RPGs since I wasn't aware that someone could "win" a role playing game.

Even if you're talking PvP, it isn't like someone won't just sell / give away their cash shop stuff when they leave the game. Most current cash shop games don't sell anything that can't be attained through play. Unless it's a useless fashion accessory or something. So you can still get the top teir items. It's just a matter of getting your guild together and power-grinding for it.

I just have never cared for any F2P game because none of them have been done well ( in my opinion ).

I've tried several, none of them would be what I would consider worth buying, and usually after an hour or two, I could see that they weren't even worth playing.

Different strokes, I guess - but not my cup of tea.

I agree that P2P model at least feel like all players started on equal grounds.  Of course, someone that buys in game currency on the P2P games are a different issue.

I have no problem with F2P games, but I prefer not having to buy in game content.  Most F2P games in fact make the game intentionally inconvenient in order to sell their items.  Usually a standard subscription montly payment of 15 dollars allow you access for a month to all contents in game on a P2P model. 

On a F2P model however, lets say you spend 10 dollars on a permanent mount, 2 dollar on fashion items, 3 dollars on scrolls that allow self resurrection without penality, and 5 more dollars on teleportation scrolls since the game does not include teleports.  You would have easily spent more than the P2P players just to have the necessity items, and these usually does not last you a month except for the permanent purchase.  The price shown in the above example are in fact much lower than what something could cost in the itemmall depending on the game and how they designed the items.

I don't despise F2P, in fact I try out F2P games regularly to see what each has to offer.  It simply does not fit my style to pay more for less contents and to even function in a game.

I don't understand why people have a problem with cash shops

I play a number of f2p games, i've never ever used the cash shop, and have enjoyed the game all the same.

I understand compared to those who have bought items, they have a advantage over me especially in pvp, but i've never found it impossible to still participate or progress without those benefits, you just got to make the best out of what you can get access to.

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

I don't understand why people have a problem with cash shops

I play a number of f2p games, i've never ever used the cash shop, and have enjoyed the game all the same.

I understand compared to those who have bought items, they have a advantage over me especially in pvp, but i've never found it impossible to still participate or progress without those benefits, you just got to make the best out of what you can get access to.

The problem comes when you have cash shops that sell powerful equipment that would give you the ultimate edge against anyone that doesn't use the cash shop. Ultimately, the pvp has to be an important part in this example.

A unique problem I experienced with the cash shop happened to me in the old f2p game I played, Silkroad Online. Bots infested the servers to a point where at least 80% of the population was bots on the servers, and they got so crowded that it was nearly impossible to login whenever you wanted...unless you ponied up 15-25 dollars worth of silk (the online currency you buy with real money on that game) to get the premiums that allowed you guarenteed access into the game with improved stats to boot. The majority of legits, including myself, would almost never get on to the game without a premium. I never bought anything from the cash shop, but when bots infested the game and crowded the servers, guess what 15$ would give you on a supposed f2p game.

In my opinion, cash shops should only have fun items like avatar suits. There can be 1000 potion packs or 10,00 arrow packs and that sort, but nothing that would give a player too much of an advantage. Of course, that idea wouldn't be as profiting as putting the most powerful sword in your hands for only 50$...

... for the same reasons I prefer flatrate internet over dial-up. Also, most F2P games tend to be quite 'grindy', from what I have experienced so far. This may satisfy 'achiever' types, but bores me to tears tbh ^^

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

I don't understand why people have a problem with cash shops

I play a number of f2p games, i've never ever used the cash shop, and have enjoyed the game all the same.

I understand compared to those who have bought items, they have a advantage over me especially in pvp, but i've never found it impossible to still participate or progress without those benefits, you just got to make the best out of what you can get access to.

The main arguments against it are based largely in misinformation. Hammertime presented about the only valid argument that I have heard so far. The two most common ones are: 

1) You have to pay to compete. Of the MMOFPS games, this is sometimes true, but it is rarely true of the MMORPGs, and immaterial in the PvE focused ones as you aren't competing with anyone there.

2) It costs more than P2P MMOs,. For the 10% or so that pay, that can sometimes be true. However, for 90% of the people enjoying the game, that is completely false. That a free download and months of free play can be perceived as costing more than paying for a retail box and a recurring monthly subscription fee whether you play each month or not is a a true stretch.

I hate them because theyre more expensive than regular pay to play games.

These are the only valid arguments in your eyes? How about this?

• In order for a cash shop to sell, there must be an incentive. That means that it has to sell either items with some cool factor attached to them or some enchanced game functionality. Cool factor can be anything that can create a visual distinction between your character and the rest, a pet, a mount, a glowing effect etc. Enchanced game functionality means improvement over standard gameplay. It can be teleportation devices (when the free world does not offer them), experience multipliers (when the grind starts becoming unbearable), regeneration devices (when the normal regeneration results in huge waiting between combat) etc.

Bottom line, in order to make the cash shop appealing, F2P designers make some of the aspects of the game world painful without it. The only difference between these games is how big a pain is to go by without all these items. This trend is not very apparent at the beginning, because the designers are trying to hook you into the game. So in retrospect, different players will feel the effect of the RMT promoting obstacles differently.

Unfortunately, it seems that there are worse design concepts than F2P with RMT models. How about P2P with RMT model? Why not combine the worse of the two worlds* into one package?

*P2P model has its weaknesses as well. For a very casual player, it means that they are getting less out of their subscription compared to somebody willing to spend more free time. Also, P2P games base their subscription philosophy in keeping people subscribed. That usually means that they give them the carrot on a stick treatment, always producing time consuming (and sometimes not very fun to work on) goals, in order for people to achieve the target they are aiming at. The upside is that they need to design those time sinks in a fun fashion, or people won't stick around, hence defeating the point of having them introduced.

Originally posted by Hammertime1

I just have never cared for any F2P game because none of them have been done well ( in my opinion ).

I've tried several, none of them would be what I would consider worth buying, and usually after an hour or two, I could see that they weren't even worth playing.

 

Different strokes, I guess - but not my cup of tea.

This more or less covers the main point.

F2P's -generally- are of lower quality than P2P's and then if you want to -really- reach end-game you have to spend more money. So you end up paying more for less. I don't know about you guys, but that just doesn't make any sense.

F2P's, at least in my mind, should ideally be of the same quality as any P2P. The point, again in my mind, of F2P's is to open the door to your game and then to support it people should fall in love with the world you invite them to. F2P's should stand on their merits and maybe a few shameless items in the cashshop that are just cute/funny/"cool"-looking. By and large cash-shops shouldn't contain ANYTHING that will make someone unbalanced if they dump a lot of money into it.

I think D&D has the kind of F2P system that makes more sense. It's not quite there, but it's a bit better than most systems I've seen. There's a cash shop and a pay to play mode you can switch to anytime you want to. It's not an idealized version, but, as I said, better than most.

The essential flaw with any pure RMT system is that eventually the company will get greedy. They'll throw items in the item shop that aren't necessarily expensive, but if you don't have them in ample supply you're going to get raped. If not by other players who do then NPC's in the form of taking forever to kill anything, level, getting killed by almost anything, or a combination of the three.

Seen it happen time and time again. And that is why F2P's are giant pieces of crap.

Paying a subscription makes you feel like you're investing in something. It's more than a game and paying that money gives you security that you have some rights and you pay for a service that'll give you security. Where as F2P games just feel like toys that you play for 5 mins and then throw away and you don't get that same investment feeling with them.

Besides there hasn't been a F2P game I liked.

Originally posted by LynxJSA 

The main arguments against it are based largely in misinformation. Hammertime presented about the only valid argument that I have heard so far. The two most common ones are: 

1) You have to pay to compete. Of the MMOFPS games, this is sometimes true, but it is rarely true of the MMORPGs, and immaterial in the PvE focused ones as you aren't competing with anyone there.

2) It costs more than P2P MMOs,. For the 10% or so that pay, that can sometimes be true. However, for 90% of the people enjoying the game, that is completely false. That a free download and months of free play can be perceived as costing more than paying for a retail box and a recurring monthly subscription fee whether you play each month or not is a a true stretch.

  

I was playing RoM with a Scout/Priest. Time and time again I was literally  getting one shotted by same level mage/priests in PvP.

The game has crazy twinking/ through enchantments where fully twinked gear at level 15 or so is as tough as the usual max level gear. How do you get these enchantments - the cash shop.

I am not misinformed. I played the game long enough to reach level 35/35. I actually liked a lot about the game, but ultimately the need to spend cash (more cash than P2P in fact) drove me away.

Perhaps I quit because I have different playstyle to you, but your 'misinformation' assertion is not true.

It's funny how people despise a game that's free to play meaning you don't have to do anything but download and play it. You don't have to pay a penny, they are giving you this. It's like throwing your mom's gifts back in her face (spoiled brat). I love free to play games and i really appreciate the time and effort put into the games that are given to me. They might not be the best but are you paying your money to help them develop it?

Runes of Magic is pretty good, but there's something about it that lacks the P2P touch, and that is my whole gripe with F2P games, all of them I've played are varying degrees short of what P2Ps are.

They are sub par MMO’s and are leeching players who could be in subscription MMO’s. New to MMOs, not sure if you want to play them? Then a F2P may be for you, but long term get yourself a subscription game, the extra quality will quickly be evident. Also a game that favours a cash shop has no incentive to remove the one shot tweaking a previous poster mentioned. If you want to be in a game where you have to buy items from a cash shop just to have a chance in PvP, well good luck to you. I could go on but we have gone over this so many times before.

Originally posted by Pinkerl

why people despise Free2Play?

 

to me its not different from monthly. free2play cashshpop to win right? well monthly  is buy ingame currency  to win. either way it is currupted on both model. im kindda laylow on mmo now. i mostly play psn and waiting for ff14 see how it do in ps3. hopfully console is less curruption.

 

 

so since both model is no difference.... runes of magic is pretty good.

Click the item mall buttom for whatever game you are playing, check the items, their prices and you'll understand. If still unconvinced, wait a few patches, when you already are "estabilished" into the game, these will be much worse. Because after all, item malls will be constantly updated with new things.

Flatrate > "Shopping", because I know I am weak and if the items are appealing I will wish to buy them - no matter if it's just a vanity armor or a +10% attack, +100% experience item. I don't want my entertainment to constantly try and backstab/drain my budget, anyone that has a sense of reality and wants to avoid that in their games shouldn't wish that.

And about the third-party companies in MMOs, if developers truly wished to get rid of them they should take actions in that way. As long as I can have fun in a game with these, I won't bother, but if the inflation gets too high I just move on to another game. The problem is when you offer items exclusively to those who spends money and item malls find their appeal in offering such kind of items.

To end it, free to play shouldn't be the right term, unlimited trial or item mall would be a better term. Games being developed for people to play for free? What a sad joke, they're not there for you but for the people that will fall into the item mall trap.

Originally posted by SubL_Jedi

It's funny how people despise a game that's free to play meaning you don't have to do anything but download and play it. You don't have to pay a penny, they are giving you this. It's like throwing your mom's gifts back in her face (spoiled brat). I love free to play games and i really appreciate the time and effort put into the games that are given to me. They might not be the best but are you paying your money to help them develop it?

It's a lie. No game is free to play. Someone is always paying. You may be okay with the way that works but don't ever say they're free. It's a lie