Originally posted by Iheamylap

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Iheamylap

So, your big point that Vincent has caused more "harm" than "good", boils down to the fact that you feel he, as Gameplay Senator, has things listed in his Top 5 that other senators could represent too? 

Never minding that "Gameplay" is broad anyways. Also, never minding that its been mentioned clearly and understood that Senators can reach out of their own *area of expertise* to assist in others that they might be a part of or be able to assist in.  There is very little in our game that isn't connected in some way and affects another.

You guys might not be saying it directly, but it seems as if you are blaming SOE's decisions (well, Dot the former Producer more likely) on Holiday events and Zombies on Vincent.  To me, it sounds more like its the developesr who need the blame. 

 

 

I no longer have access to the post, but while the whole Spy fiasco was going on, I'm fairly certain we (Senators) were told we should keep our noses out of other peoples aspects?! And if I'm not mistaken, it was Vincent himself who posted that?! 

And please...zombies and "ghey" fests were not Vincent's doing - I've NEVER implied that. As you said, the fault lies entirely with Dotanuki (Producer), Rich (SoE) and Linda (SoE), as they were the ones calling the shots (or so I've been told). Now if Teesquared goes through with it, I think it's safe to lump him in there as well. No matter what previous commitments Dotanuki had, Tee is the producer now and it's his ship to sink. Either he's a leader or he's not.

That was Elias, and I hardly think he was the greater representation of SOE. In fact, I think if there ever was a disgrace for a CRM, it was him (not Drak as some folks want to say...IMO).  Elias almost dispanded the Senate because we all bickerred about spy balance.  Well, not all fo us, but i know I was one of them including Anxiety.

I don't think Tee will have much choice but to go through with the Zombie crap.  Otherwise, they will have had hours of paid development and art and animation time they will have to scrap. Most businesses do not like to do that.....(nvm that they already did when the NGE hit but we won't go there).  So, if the Zombie publishes pass, I wouldn't hold it solely against Tee. He was given the foul task and has to finish it.

Its HOW he does it and then how he gets the GCW update cranking, as well as other updates along the way, that matters.  To me atleast.

 

So the idea is to accept whatever crap is tossed your way and be thankful that it wasn't worse?  That is precisely the type of thinking that the folks at SOE want for the 'senate'.  The main problem with the 'senate' is the willingness of SOE's asskissers to legitimize the idea that the playerbase shouldn't complain about things that the dev team had decided to do.

It isn't more constructive to accept horrible ideas the folks at SOE have decided they are going to do, than to let them know that those things are a bad idea, even if they have already spent time working on them.  The 'senate' is intended to be an enabler of the dev team's pathetically bad ideas, and sadly, the majority of the 'senators', you and Vincent included are more than willing to take on that role, in exchange for some false sense of 'specialness' you receive by having a private forum to post on on the OBoards.  You aren't doing the game, the dev team, or, most importantly the player, any favors by being a cheerleading squad for bad ideas.

I guess it doesn't matter much, since the game is in its dying days.  I wouldn't think you would be proud of the fact that you were an enabler on making those last days much shorter than they had to be, but I may be wrong.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Iheamylap

Tux, how do you really expect your important point of view to be understood when you personally attack someone?

"Calling it like it is" doesn't entail going off about you thinking someone is a weird cross dressor, or making fun of the types of toons they wear, trying to drag it down to something personal.

I have always valued your frrank opinion in the past, but it was never like you've posted here, resorting to personal attacks that are on par with middle school cut downs.  Maybe its just how you act on different forums, but its filth.

Even if you have a personal issue with someone, why take the step to rediculous personal attacks?  Are you trying to defend your opinion or are you just trying to cut someone down?  I can't see the difference.

 

I understand SOE did you wrong, but maybe you should 1. take a step back and get less emotional about it and 2. stop taking it out on those that are still "in the system" and trying to help, not hurt.

 

P.S.  I didn't like the Ewok Festival, because I thought it was too goofy, but I think its insulting to folks who ARE gay to label it as "Utter Gay Filth", that was my point. Oh, and there were not same sex pairings in the Ewok Festival....even if all of the male toons wore pink and purple lol

 

 

 

My "important point if view"? Iheamylap, I came in here to tell people the truth and defend myself from the lies spread by Draakull, nothing more (points at thread title). While he was free to post what he wanted, PM whoever asked and outright slander me on the forums, I was unable to even reply.

While some Senators are there to "help", far too many have their own personal agendas mate and some just enjoy feeling "better than you"  - something that's just not helpful when the game is floundering as it is. SoE has made nothing but poor business decisions for the last 2 years and it's taken the game from "worth while" to "worthless" IMO. The damage is unlikely to be reversed too. It's just too little, too late. As I said, even Lucas Arts appears to have given up on SWG Iheamylap...why else would they allow Bioware to release a directly competing MMO with the Star Wars name?

I'm sorry if my using the term "gay" offended truly gay readers...I don't make it a habit to intentionally offend people. From now on, I'll use the non-offensive spelling of "ghey" when I refer to the Ewok Love Fest. ;) 

FYI: One of my best friends is "truly gay"...even he would find the Ewok Love Fest EXTREMELY ghey.

PS...this is the second time you've referred to me as "emotional". While I'm pleased I come off as "caring", I can assure you that I'm far less "emotional" than you may read. Keep in mind that this is text...it's nearly impossible to convey emotion in text correctly.

 

Iheamylap,

Welcome to the "refuge" forum.  A place where "vets" can discuss the old game(s)  (there has been so many now) and the management/mis-management of SOE.  In reading TUX's post, I would assume that he is doing just that, in the confines of his personal opinions.  After all, he's not a senator, anylonger and can represent just himself and his views, now.

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

What will you do when SOE does something that you feel you have to speak out about and suddenly all this is turned on you?  Will you become excessively negative, also?

In my years in SWG, I have only found a few constants. 

1.  If you like the game, today, SOE Austin will find a way for you not to like it.

2.  There will be less subs than there were before the CHANGE.

3.  These forums will gain new voices to add to the "old" voices, saying just about the same thing, only in a new context.

Sooner or later, we all will become "disgruntled vets".

What is all that in exchange for an orange username and access to a useless private forum?  Isn't being 'special' more important than having a game that is fun to play?

Originally posted by Esquire1980

Iheamylap,

Welcome to the "refuge" forum.  A place where "vets" can discuss the old game(s)  (there has been so many now) and the management/mis-management of SOE.  In reading TUX's post, I would assume that he is doing just that, in the confines of his personal opinions.  After all, he's not a senator, anylonger and can represent just himself and his views, now.

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

What will you do when SOE does something that you feel you have to speak out about and suddenly all this is turned on you?  Will you become excessively negative, also?

In my years in SWG, I have only found a few constants. 

1.  If you like the game, today, SOE Austin will find a way for you not to like it.

2.  There will be less subs than there were before the CHANGE.

3.  These forums will gain new voices to add to the "old" voices, saying just about the same thing, only in a new context.

Sooner or later, we all will become "disgruntled vets".

This is so true.
 QFE

Originally posted by Esquire1980 

 

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

Like I said earlier.  Someone gets upset with SOE for good cause and the community turns their back to them.   It happens over and over and over....  Tux will not be the last one this happens to, because soe really doesn't care.  I bet if you asked tux a month ago if he ever though this would happen to him, his answer would be no. 

Even his former senators admit soe did him wrong.  Will you ever see something about that come up in a top 5 list?  No, because soe already made it clear that anyone else speaking up will also get the axe. 

Those still 'working within the system' will find a way to tuck their tails between their legs and move on.  Maybe labeling tux something like emotional to rationalize why he is gone or just ignoring the situation all together.  People want their special positions to feel good about what they are doing.  The senate is nothing more than a buffer area for the devs between the players.  Like I said earlier, soe loves to pit the players against each other so they are not in the direct line of fire.

If anyone really believes that the senate was set up to do good, lets see your top 5 lists and how often they are resolved in patches.  Something tells me that there will be lists that have had items on the top 5 for years. 

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

I don't think Tee will have much choice but to go through with the Zombie crap.  Otherwise, they will have had hours of paid development and art and animation time they will have to scrap. Most businesses do not like to do that.....(nvm that they already did when the NGE hit but we won't go there).  So, if the Zombie publishes pass, I wouldn't hold it solely against Tee. He was given the foul task and has to finish it.

Its HOW he does it and then how he gets the GCW update cranking, as well as other updates along the way, that matters.  To me atleast.

 

That's just not true. If Teesquared is the Producer, HE calls the shots. We've seen plenty of other Producers pull the plug on numerous "updates" that the previous Producer had committed to.

Investment or not...the game is near dead Iheamylap...they don't have TIME to add in Dotanuki's crap...not if they want to save the game. Any Producer should understand their first duty is to deliver something that will INCREASE their playerbase..."zombies" are NOT that addition. And FFS...this is STAR WARS!!! My kids could come up with something more appropriate than mother **edit**ing "zombies".

If I were the Producer, I'd halt ALL development and reevaluate what the hell the priority is. No customers = no job and keeping my job would be my TOP priority. It's much better to scrap stupid ideas and the time needed to complete them than it is to develop it just because you have invested some resources in it.

The sad reality is, game development takes a LOT of time...6-months from concept to development usually...time that SoE is squandering away with "zombies", Galactic Moon Festival, Storyteller Updates (aka Chronicles), the worthless Engineer Update that pissed off the few remaining Engineers, the broken and exploited Battle Grounds they dumped in...Teesquared will NEVER get a chance to implement HIS ideas if he doesn't take control NOW!  Nothing in the next 4 months will bring players back...nothing in the last 18 months has retained players...How long do you honestly think they can limp along like this Iheamylap?

PS...I love you guys on this forum :D  (and no, that was not some emo reply nor is it meant to be even a slightly ghey remark)

Originally posted by Esquire1980

  Iheamylap,

Welcome to the "refuge" forum.  A place where "vets" can discuss the old game(s)  (there has been so many now) and the management/mis-management of SOE.  In reading TUX's post, I would assume that he is doing just that, in the confines of his personal opinions.  After all, he's not a senator, anylonger and can represent just himself and his views, now.

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

What will you do when SOE does something that you feel you have to speak out about and suddenly all this is turned on you?  Will you become excessively negative, also?

In my years in SWG, I have only found a few constants. 

1.  If you like the game, today, SOE Austin will find a way for you not to like it.

2.  There will be less subs than there were before the CHANGE.

3.  These forums will gain new voices to add to the "old" voices, saying just about the same thing, only in a new context.

Sooner or later, we all will become "disgruntled vets".

+1

/popcorn

I have nothing to add, really, but like Divious said this thread is epic. 

SWG was a great game and for the last 4 years has declined into the worst POS out there. People just need to wise up let it go and move on to something else make new friends maybe run into some old ones. Truth is SOE is known for this kind of move and tux was a pretty good guy he just was one who stayed with a game he hated and in the end blew up.

I do not blame the guy I have gone back to SWG 3 times over the years and each time I go back I say to myself "Oh yeah this is why I quit the game"  Truth is i have played just about every MMO I could and never found fun in any game like I did Old SWG but its like a member of your family dieing once they are gone you just got to move on and remember the good times.

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

I don't think Tee will have much choice but to go through with the Zombie crap.  Otherwise, they will have had hours of paid development and art and animation time they will have to scrap. Most businesses do not like to do that.....(nvm that they already did when the NGE hit but we won't go there).  So, if the Zombie publishes pass, I wouldn't hold it solely against Tee. He was given the foul task and has to finish it.

Its HOW he does it and then how he gets the GCW update cranking, as well as other updates along the way, that matters.  To me atleast.

 

 

That's just not true. If Teesquared is the Producer, HE calls the shots. We've seen plenty of other Producers pull the plug on numerous "updates" that the previous Producer had committed to.

Investment or not...the game is near dead Iheamylap...they don't have TIME to add in Dotanuki's crap...not if they want to save the game. Any Producer should understand their first duty is to deliver something that will INCREASE their playerbase..."zombies" are NOT that addition. And FFS...this is STAR WARS!!! My kids could come up with something more appropriate than mother **edit**ing "zombies".

If I were the Producer, I'd halt ALL development and reevaluate what the hell the priority is. No customers = no job and keeping my job would be my TOP priority. It's much better to scrap stupid ideas and the time needed to complete them than it is to develop it just because you have invested some resources in it.

The sad reality is, game development takes a LOT of time...6-months from concept to development usually...time that SoE is squandering away with "zombies", Galactic Moon Festival, Storyteller Updates (aka Chronicles), the worthless Engineer Update that pissed off the few remaining Engineers, the broken and exploited Battle Grounds they dumped in...Teesquared will NEVER get a chance to implement HIS ideas if he doesn't take control NOW!  Nothing in the next 4 months will bring players back...nothing in the last 18 months has retained players...How long do you honestly think they can limp along like this Iheamylap?

 

 

PS...I love you guys on this forum :D  (and no, that was not some emo reply nor is it meant to be even a slightly ghey remark)

As far as i can tell the player has never mattered to $OE .  I know this as an ex creature handler.

Update after update just pushed live, even with the out cry's of the bugs that needed fixing, and still do in some cases.

By the way welcome fellow disgruntled vet!

Originally posted by Sandbox

Vincent, you avoid the issue and still suggest band aid solutions.

What if there's a crafter crafting something worth a lot of credits in one of the 4 clusters when gangs are pvp'ing, and that cluster dies?
Shall we use 16 clusters instead? Or 64?
Do you see where this leads you... to having private pvp instances and no open  world  pvp.

The problem is the "speed", the amount of data that has to be transmitted. Not lack of resourses.
If it was so easy as just add some pc's, SOE would have done that long agao. Hardware is cheap compared to developers.

Fact is, it's a mission impossible, and all due to the bad design of the fast pased combat.  And you can spin this all the way to the moon if you want, fact is that the old servers did handled huge amount of players before the NGE, even though todays PC are much faster.

So again, do not ask for more resources, ask SOE to fix the problem. Or stick you head in the sand and continue to do damage control. 

Uhm, I just added to your definition of the lag problem that there are steps we can ask for to fix the damage done by the NGE. If it wasn't clear enough in my post, I'll just repeat it:

I agree with you, but pointed out that the combat speed isn't the only problem. Server structure is a problem too.

Originally posted by Vincen76

Originally posted by Sandbox

Vincent, you avoid the issue and still suggest band aid solutions.

What if there's a crafter crafting something worth a lot of credits in one of the 4 clusters when gangs are pvp'ing, and that cluster dies?
Shall we use 16 clusters instead? Or 64?
Do you see where this leads you... to having private pvp instances and no open  world  pvp.

The problem is the "speed", the amount of data that has to be transmitted. Not lack of resourses.
If it was so easy as just add some pc's, SOE would have done that long agao. Hardware is cheap compared to developers.

Fact is, it's a mission impossible, and all due to the bad design of the fast pased combat.  And you can spin this all the way to the moon if you want, fact is that the old servers did handled huge amount of players before the NGE, even though todays PC are much faster.

So again, do not ask for more resources, ask SOE to fix the problem. Or stick you head in the sand and continue to do damage control. 

 

Uhm, I just added to your definition of the lag problem that there are steps we can ask for to fix the damage done by the NGE. If it wasn't clear enough in my post, I'll just repeat it:

I agree with you, but pointed out that the combat speed isn't the only problem. Server structure is a problem too.

The speeding up of the game engine is the core cause of all of these problems.  There is no fix-it guide you can write that will correct that or explain it away.  Advising soe not to implement gameplay features in the open world will not fix that. 

Why this isn't a top priority is simply amazing.  It would solve so many problems, but somehow everyone wants to work on fixing it some other way.  How many years do you have to put up with band aids before you call for real action? 

You actually advocate restricting players access to the world as a result as if that is somehow an acceptable solution.  Read that again, you want to remove players ability to enjoy the world as a result of soe screwing up the game engine.  That is not advocating players wishes.  That is the complete opposite of what you are assigned to do as a player representative.

Originally posted by Vincen76

Originally posted by Sandbox

Vincent, you avoid the issue and still suggest band aid solutions.

What if there's a crafter crafting something worth a lot of credits in one of the 4 clusters when gangs are pvp'ing, and that cluster dies?
Shall we use 16 clusters instead? Or 64?
Do you see where this leads you... to having private pvp instances and no open  world  pvp.

The problem is the "speed", the amount of data that has to be transmitted. Not lack of resourses.
If it was so easy as just add some pc's, SOE would have done that long agao. Hardware is cheap compared to developers.

Fact is, it's a mission impossible, and all due to the bad design of the fast pased combat.  And you can spin this all the way to the moon if you want, fact is that the old servers did handled huge amount of players before the NGE, even though todays PC are much faster.

So again, do not ask for more resources, ask SOE to fix the problem. Or stick you head in the sand and continue to do damage control. 

 

Uhm, I just added to your definition of the lag problem that there are steps we can ask for to fix the damage done by the NGE. If it wasn't clear enough in my post, I'll just repeat it:

I agree with you, but pointed out that the combat speed isn't the only problem. Server structure is a problem too.

Do you work for SOE? Are you a developer there?
I guess not, so why do you spend time figuring out HOW to fix the lag?

Just ask them to fix it; I'm sure they know better what to do. At least they should.

Or, is this the second best suggestion, because speaking of changing the NGE is forbidden?
If so, you have already given up, it will just take some more time until you realize it.
 

They would have fixed it already if they could...the problem is they cannot.  The NGE sped up combat.  The uderlying system was built to support 1 action a second.  Now it is multiplied several times then you have to add on top the syncing of other avatars into the equation at the same speed.

Poor Development....Poor Testing....Poor Quality Assurance...Poor Implementation.../fail

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by Vincen76 

Uhm, I just added to your definition of the lag problem that there are steps we can ask for to fix the damage done by the NGE. If it wasn't clear enough in my post, I'll just repeat it:

I agree with you, but pointed out that the combat speed isn't the only problem. Server structure is a problem too.

 

Do you work for SOE? Are you a developer there?
I guess not, so why do you spend time figuring out HOW to fix the lag?

Just ask them to fix it; I'm sure they know better what to do. At least they should.

Or, is this the second best suggestion, because speaking of changing the NGE is forbidden?
If so, you have already given up, it will just take some more time until you realize it.
 

Vincent is having a rough day I think...

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?start=45&topic_id=985521 (page 4 he really starts to take some hits)

Vincent, as your buddy, let me suggest you step back for a bit...you clearly would much rather appease and make excuses for SoE rather than represent the players like you are supposed to do. You simply don't have the power you try to look like you have mate...stop pretending.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Iheamylap

Tux, how do you really expect your important point of view to be understood when you personally attack someone?

"Calling it like it is" doesn't entail going off about you thinking someone is a weird cross dressor, or making fun of the types of toons they wear, trying to drag it down to something personal.

I have always valued your frrank opinion in the past, but it was never like you've posted here, resorting to personal attacks that are on par with middle school cut downs.  Maybe its just how you act on different forums, but its filth.

Even if you have a personal issue with someone, why take the step to rediculous personal attacks?  Are you trying to defend your opinion or are you just trying to cut someone down?  I can't see the difference.

 

I understand SOE did you wrong, but maybe you should 1. take a step back and get less emotional about it and 2. stop taking it out on those that are still "in the system" and trying to help, not hurt.

 

P.S.  I didn't like the Ewok Festival, because I thought it was too goofy, but I think its insulting to folks who ARE gay to label it as "Utter Gay Filth", that was my point. Oh, and there were not same sex pairings in the Ewok Festival....even if all of the male toons wore pink and purple lol

 

 

 

My "important point if view"? Iheamylap, I came in here to tell people the truth and defend myself from the lies spread by Draakull, nothing more (points at thread title). While he was free to post what he wanted, PM whoever asked and outright slander me on the forums, I was unable to even reply.

While some Senators are there to "help", far too many have their own personal agendas mate and some just enjoy feeling "better than you"  - something that's just not helpful when the game is floundering as it is. SoE has made nothing but poor business decisions for the last 2 years and it's taken the game from "worth while" to "worthless" IMO. The damage is unlikely to be reversed too. It's just too little, too late. As I said, even Lucas Arts appears to have given up on SWG Iheamylap...why else would they allow Bioware to release a directly competing MMO with the Star Wars name?

I'm sorry if my using the term "gay" offended truly gay readers...I don't make it a habit to intentionally offend people. From now on, I'll use the non-offensive spelling of "ghey" when I refer to the Ewok Love Fest. ;) 

FYI: One of my best friends is "truly gay"...even he would find the Ewok Love Fest EXTREMELY ghey.

PS...this is the second time you've referred to me as "emotional". While I'm pleased I come off as "caring", I can assure you that I'm far less "emotional" than you may read. Keep in mind that this is text...it's nearly impossible to convey emotion in text correctly.

 

Iheamylap,

Welcome to the "refuge" forum.  A place where "vets" can discuss the old game(s)  (there has been so many now) and the management/mis-management of SOE.  In reading TUX's post, I would assume that he is doing just that, in the confines of his personal opinions.  After all, he's not a senator, anylonger and can represent just himself and his views, now.

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

What will you do when SOE does something that you feel you have to speak out about and suddenly all this is turned on you?  Will you become excessively negative, also?

In my years in SWG, I have only found a few constants. 

1.  If you like the game, today, SOE Austin will find a way for you not to like it.

2.  There will be less subs than there were before the CHANGE.

3.  These forums will gain new voices to add to the "old" voices, saying just about the same thing, only in a new context.

Sooner or later, we all will become "disgruntled vets".

lol Thanks for the reply =]

I never said I was just peachy with anything =]  I can't be the smuggler senator with out being constantly frustrated.  Ask one of my fellow Smugglers Tralita_tsunami and he'll tell you we both agree that, despire surface apperances, our class is broken, boring, and rediculous.

However, when I've let my frustrations let me rant and rave in the past, it didn't get me jack.  I actively make myself step back, take a few moments, and then think how I can *play the game* with the developers to hope and get SOMETHING through to their limited view and benefit Smugglers as a whole.  Heck, so far, I have very little hope that they will even push through any of my desired fixes before my term ends...but It won't serve me or other smugglers well enough fo rme to go on yelling at people....even if I want to.

So, my point?  I don't discount that Tux has a right to be frustrated or that any and all vets do.  Or, that active players themselves, like me, don't have the right to be frustrated.  I just feel that, whether here or elsewhere, we shouldn't resort to personal attacks if we are trying to get a point across.  Otherwise, our point will probably not be heard. 

Tux, like many others, has a good handle and view on whats wrong with SOE at the moment, but whether he wants to admit it or not, he messedup and lost his position in the Forums that gave him, probably, the best chance of getting someone to hear his opinion.  Same with Anxiety.  I  refuse to do that personally.  Getting dropped from my Senate position would do absoultely nothing for the smuggler community.  I play by the rules on the surface so I can get something done, even if its small.  If not, oh well, I damn tried atleast.

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

I don't think Tee will have much choice but to go through with the Zombie crap.  Otherwise, they will have had hours of paid development and art and animation time they will have to scrap. Most businesses do not like to do that.....(nvm that they already did when the NGE hit but we won't go there).  So, if the Zombie publishes pass, I wouldn't hold it solely against Tee. He was given the foul task and has to finish it.

Its HOW he does it and then how he gets the GCW update cranking, as well as other updates along the way, that matters.  To me atleast.

 

 

That's just not true. If Teesquared is the Producer, HE calls the shots. We've seen plenty of other Producers pull the plug on numerous "updates" that the previous Producer had committed to.

Investment or not...the game is near dead Iheamylap...they don't have TIME to add in Dotanuki's crap...not if they want to save the game. Any Producer should understand their first duty is to deliver something that will INCREASE their playerbase..."zombies" are NOT that addition. And FFS...this is STAR WARS!!! My kids could come up with something more appropriate than mother **edit**ing "zombies".

If I were the Producer, I'd halt ALL development and reevaluate what the hell the priority is. No customers = no job and keeping my job would be my TOP priority. It's much better to scrap stupid ideas and the time needed to complete them than it is to develop it just because you have invested some resources in it.

The sad reality is, game development takes a LOT of time...6-months from concept to development usually...time that SoE is squandering away with "zombies", Galactic Moon Festival, Storyteller Updates (aka Chronicles), the worthless Engineer Update that pissed off the few remaining Engineers, the broken and exploited Battle Grounds they dumped in...Teesquared will NEVER get a chance to implement HIS ideas if he doesn't take control NOW!  Nothing in the next 4 months will bring players back...nothing in the last 18 months has retained players...How long do you honestly think they can limp along like this Iheamylap?

 

 

PS...I love you guys on this forum :D  (and no, that was not some emo reply nor is it meant to be even a slightly ghey remark)

I agree with you that Zombie crap isn't what they need to push.  I also have always agreed that the GCW needed the better focus.  But, I feel that, its not as easy as we feel that "Teesquared needs to just let it go, whipe it clean and focus on something better."  Why?  Because, from observing previous producers, I don't think he has the full *power* we think he should have.  

Oh sure, I think they have enough power to get ideas into motion...but once *valuable* and limited production time is spent, I have a feeling its like working against a landslide to get something changed.  They made the decision to invest two updates on the Zombie expansion, and apparently already started working on it...therefore, I suspect thats a LOT of planned production time.  Teesquared might have the senority and respect to get his voice heard....but do you think he'll really want to chance it? 

Personally, I hope he does.  I hope he takes a stand.  He already gave me positive feedback when I mentioend to him that they needed to listen to Anxiety's ideas and put Top 5's into regular development time.  Currently, Top 5's and bugs/fixes are done *if there is extra time*....which means...barely ever.  Anxiety's point was we needed secure dev time for fixes/bugs like EvE online.  Tee though it was a good idea, but even he said *I have to bring it up to Loche*.......He has a good idea, but he can't just make things happen with out anyone else backing him up.

I know I'm coming across as Mr. Optimism and Mr. Rose Colored Glasses.  Just trust me when I say thats not all I am.  Its just that, from my experience in game and in life, sometimes you have to put on a certain professional image and behavior to try and get what you want done.     I wouldn't have accomplished a quarter of the things with previous RL organizations I have been leading/involved in if I gave into the frustratiosn I felt with the higher institutions involved.

Not trying to stir anything up here or anything guys , just a question..

What are the upgrades coming to the GCW?

Originally posted by Iheamylap

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Iheamylap,

Welcome to the "refuge" forum.  A place where "vets" can discuss the old game(s)  (there has been so many now) and the management/mis-management of SOE.  In reading TUX's post, I would assume that he is doing just that, in the confines of his personal opinions.  After all, he's not a senator, anylonger and can represent just himself and his views, now.

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

What will you do when SOE does something that you feel you have to speak out about and suddenly all this is turned on you?  Will you become excessively negative, also?

In my years in SWG, I have only found a few constants. 

1.  If you like the game, today, SOE Austin will find a way for you not to like it.

2.  There will be less subs than there were before the CHANGE.

3.  These forums will gain new voices to add to the "old" voices, saying just about the same thing, only in a new context.

Sooner or later, we all will become "disgruntled vets".

lol Thanks for the reply =]

I never said I was just peachy with anything =]  I can't be the smuggler senator with out being constantly frustrated.  Ask one of my fellow Smugglers Tralita_tsunami and he'll tell you we both agree that, despire surface apperances, our class is broken, boring, and rediculous.

However, when I've let my frustrations let me rant and rave in the past, it didn't get me jack.  I actively make myself step back, take a few moments, and then think how I can *play the game* with the developers to hope and get SOMETHING through to their limited view and benefit Smugglers as a whole.  Heck, so far, I have very little hope that they will even push through any of my desired fixes before my term ends...but It won't serve me or other smugglers well enough fo rme to go on yelling at people....even if I want to.

So, my point?  I don't discount that Tux has a right to be frustrated or that any and all vets do.  Or, that active players themselves, like me, don't have the right to be frustrated.  I just feel that, whether here or elsewhere, we shouldn't resort to personal attacks if we are trying to get a point across.  Otherwise, our point will probably not be heard. 

Tux, like many others, has a good handle and view on whats wrong with SOE at the moment, but whether he wants to admit it or not, he messedup and lost his position in the Forums that gave him, probably, the best chance of getting someone to hear his opinion.  Same with Anxiety.  I  refuse to do that personally.  Getting dropped from my Senate position would do absoultely nothing for the smuggler community.  I play by the rules on the surface so I can get something done, even if its small.  If not, oh well, I damn tried atleast.

If you think your frustrated by the smuggler profession, try rolling a LS jedi.  Where the complete design for your profession is "LS = pve (tank)" and nothing else.  That ended up with 1/2 the end game content (PVP) being out of your profession design implimented by SOE Austin, in (what I like to call) the new and improved NJE (GU-3).  The New Jedi Enhancements.

Shis had a melt-down on the Senate forums and actually got some interest in his issues and some subsequent fixes.  He lost his senate seat, in the process, but got some much needed added development for BH.  This may or may not be the way to do it, but in that specific case, it worked.

What I read, in your above post, is that your really getting nothing done (with your issues), your not all that happy about it, have resigned yourself to the above facts, and your keeping your senate seat, safe.  We all have our crosses to bear, I would guess.  What I said, in my post, is there WILL be a time when SOE Austin completes a large enough screw-up that it will inflame you enough to speak out.  Will you take Tux's method or will you, again, save your seat?  (I really do not want an answer to that question, just to put it on the table for future thought.)  Representation is just that, representation of the people you represent, to the best of your ability.

Tux made an attempt at solving 1 of his representative issues, seen the large hand of SOE and placed his representation of the playerbase 1st.  I applaud him for that.  His seat was not as important as the issue was/is to him.  His frustration may indeed have lead to the "personal attacks" you tout, but in his defence, he was argueing a point, with another senator, that basicly had no argument against his point.  Read the SOE Gameplay forums.  The playerbase wants the GCW development 1st and/or instead of Zombies.  These facts are not in dispute.

And that remains the issue here.  Is your senate seat more important than the issue at hand?  You are the only one that can answer that and I will not try and answer it for you.

I, personaly, am in the catagory of SOE Austin does not need a group of merely bug reporters and cheerleaders, called the senate.  They need the truth.  In the words of the movie, "they can't handle the truth", but they probably need it anyway.   I know, they've had the truth yelled at them for years now, but that in no way limits  the need to hear it again.  Even if SOE Austin turns a blind ear, others in the industry have/will not. 

Originally posted by TUX426

 

PS...I love you guys on this forum :D  (and no, that was not some emo reply nor is it meant to be even a slightly ghey remark)

eh, its not difficult after you get used to the target audience's and fanboi's level of "discussion" at the oboards.

sometimes a few of them come over here, though, or even at the fringe to yell and flame people, and spread missinformation about the game. their visits have become less often as of late though, thankfully.

Originally posted by Iheamylap 

Tux, like many others, has a good handle and view on whats wrong with SOE at the moment, but whether he wants to admit it or not, he messedup and lost his position in the Forums that gave him, probably, the best chance of getting someone to hear his opinion.

Uh...please explain where I "messed up"? In voicing the players concerns? In fighting to get GCW put AHEAD of Chronicles, and not one, but TWO Updates that focused on zombies? 

If you feel that is me "messing up", you are the one who needs to step back for a moment my friend.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

Originally posted by Iheamylap

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Iheamylap,

Welcome to the "refuge" forum.  A place where "vets" can discuss the old game(s)  (there has been so many now) and the management/mis-management of SOE.  In reading TUX's post, I would assume that he is doing just that, in the confines of his personal opinions.  After all, he's not a senator, anylonger and can represent just himself and his views, now.

You acknowledge that TUX was done wrong by SOE.  My question would be, when do you think it will be your turn, or Vincents, or any1 in the senate for that matter?  This is just another, in a long line of precidents set by SOE and if you actualy believe TUX 's "treatment" was a one-time, case only, happening, I'm afraid your the one that may not  be faceing reality, here.  Haven't there been quite a few senators that have been treated pooly by SOE and their employees?  (not to even mention their customers/playerbase)

What will you do when SOE does something that you feel you have to speak out about and suddenly all this is turned on you?  Will you become excessively negative, also?

In my years in SWG, I have only found a few constants. 

1.  If you like the game, today, SOE Austin will find a way for you not to like it.

2.  There will be less subs than there were before the CHANGE.

3.  These forums will gain new voices to add to the "old" voices, saying just about the same thing, only in a new context.

Sooner or later, we all will become "disgruntled vets".

lol Thanks for the reply =]

I never said I was just peachy with anything =]  I can't be the smuggler senator with out being constantly frustrated.  Ask one of my fellow Smugglers Tralita_tsunami and he'll tell you we both agree that, despire surface apperances, our class is broken, boring, and rediculous.

However, when I've let my frustrations let me rant and rave in the past, it didn't get me jack.  I actively make myself step back, take a few moments, and then think how I can *play the game* with the developers to hope and get SOMETHING through to their limited view and benefit Smugglers as a whole.  Heck, so far, I have very little hope that they will even push through any of my desired fixes before my term ends...but It won't serve me or other smugglers well enough fo rme to go on yelling at people....even if I want to.

So, my point?  I don't discount that Tux has a right to be frustrated or that any and all vets do.  Or, that active players themselves, like me, don't have the right to be frustrated.  I just feel that, whether here or elsewhere, we shouldn't resort to personal attacks if we are trying to get a point across.  Otherwise, our point will probably not be heard. 

Tux, like many others, has a good handle and view on whats wrong with SOE at the moment, but whether he wants to admit it or not, he messedup and lost his position in the Forums that gave him, probably, the best chance of getting someone to hear his opinion.  Same with Anxiety.  I  refuse to do that personally.  Getting dropped from my Senate position would do absoultely nothing for the smuggler community.  I play by the rules on the surface so I can get something done, even if its small.  If not, oh well, I damn tried atleast.

 

If you think your frustrated by the smuggler profession, try rolling a LS jedi.  Where the complete design for your profession is "LS = pve (tank)" and nothing else.  That ended up with 1/2 the end game content (PVP) being out of your profession design implimented by SOE Austin, in (what I like to call) the new and improved NJE (GU-3).  The New Jedi Enhancements.

Shis had a melt-down on the Senate forums and actually got some interest in his issues and some subsequent fixes.  He lost his senate seat, in the process, but got some much needed added development for BH.  This may or may not be the way to do it, but in that specific case, it worked.

What I read, in your above post, is that your really getting nothing done (with your issues), your not all that happy about it, have resigned yourself to the above facts, and your keeping your senate seat, safe.  We all have our crosses to bear, I would guess.  What I said, in my post, is there WILL be a time when SOE Austin completes a large enough screw-up that it will inflame you enough to speak out.  Will you take Tux's method or will you, again, save your seat?  (I really do not want an answer to that question, just to put it on the table for future thought.)  Representation is just that, representation of the people you represent, to the best of your ability.

Tux made an attempt at solving 1 of his representative issues, seen the large hand of SOE and placed his representation of the playerbase 1st.  I applaud him for that.  His seat was not as important as the issue was/is to him.  His frustration may indeed have lead to the "personal attacks" you tout, but in his defence, he was argueing a point, with another senator, that basicly had no argument against his point.  Read the SOE Gameplay forums.  The playerbase wants the GCW development 1st and/or instead of Zombies.  These facts are not in dispute.

And that remains the issue here.  Is your senate seat more important than the issue at hand?  You are the only one that can answer that and I will not try and answer it for you.

I, personaly, am in the catagory of SOE Austin does not need a group of merely bug reporters and cheerleaders, called the senate.  They need the truth.  In the words of the movie, "they can't handle the truth", but they probably need it anyway.   I know, they've had the truth yelled at them for years now, but that in no way limits  the need to hear it again.  Even if SOE Austin turns a blind ear, others in the industry have/will not. 

Wholeheartedly agree.