Originally posted by Arshoon

If you are referring to me (the OP) I don't want a company to make a community for me, or even a game because they simply won't. I am going to make a game for me that others can enjoy. A game for role-players, by a role-player. All those various MMOs out there you are referring to aren't made strictly for those that like to immerse themselves in a living, breathing world. They simply want to get tough, get gear and pwn things (including other players). This has led developers to shoot for the lowest common denominator and sacrifice vision for profits.

You can't count every player as someone who wants to get tough, get gear and pwn things.  I play Ryzom... I dig for mats, craft my own gear, I can't pull my mount or packers out of a bag, I have to get them out of a stable, if I leave them out there is a chance that my mount or packer could die and I would have to purchase another one.  I can't port with an animal, I have to trek it across country.

There is a new owner and development is now ongoing, with events and a new rp forum.

Please don't lump every game in with those that have disappointed you.

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Originally posted by Arshoon
We can agree to disagree about classes, Axe. I don't like classes because they are restrictive and levels because they promote grinding.
I won't have them in may game nor will I ever consider them, so yes, I am closed-minded when it comes to them.

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I'm confused, because basically my last two posts have been 95% about skill-based games, and that most the problems you're trying to solve still exist in a skill-based game.

I never encouraged you to make a game with classes. I merely wanted you to realize that your game will either end up having roles (probably due to how skills degrade over time) or have super-generic characters with no playstyle variety (which is a form of the designer forcing players to play exactly the way the designer wants; which seemed to be something you didn't want.)

Shouldn't have written it out so long, sorry. :P

Just a few questions:

How would you regulate the RP?  A RP gestapo issuing warnings, bans, etc etc? 

Do you feel that the RP community that spans all MMOs is a big enough portion of the market to warrant the development of such a game?  I mean, when company releases a game they want it to appeal to millions, not thousands, right?

(in addition to the above question) Do you think a game could be developed that would be appealing enough to draw RPer's from a variety of games such as WoW, AoC, DDO, LotRO, etc etc etc and gather them all in one place?

Sure, it could work. Niche games are showing up for hard core PvP players now like DF and MO so one for roleplayers isn't so far fetched.

However niche games are niche games so you can't expect more than 100K players even if the game is good. That means that you either need fans to create most of the content or something like the EU money Avi got for DF. Or some other way to get in the money.

The game would have my support, Gawd I think anyone who has played MMO's for more than ten years and just want's another solo theme park needs their haed examined. :)

Global communication is needed for roleplaying, instant travel is not. So you just have to fluff the global comms if need be. In LotR online we had crystals which used a form of telepathy Tolkein had talked about. The fact that Tolkein only concieved this for  Elves and items lke palantirs are major secrets we brushed under the carpet. If it is good for RP, it is good for the game, that's the bottom line.

Originally posted by Scot

Global communication is needed for roleplaying, instant travel is not.  

I disagree on both points.
 

Global communication is not a roleplaying aspect unless the lore defines it as an aspect. Eve online for example, global communication has a background and a reasonable lore behind it, in World of Warcraft it does not (apart from some players inventions of their own mind). 100 years ago the world worked fine without a global communication network, why can't a game be similar? Global communication is not necessary in a roleplaying game because everyone is roleplaying so finding a roleplayer is not hard.

Instant travel likewise can be allowed in roleplaying if it is lore based, there is no reason why a 'scroll of teleportation', or a 'teleportation platform' can not have it's home in roleplaying. Of course, if the game does not allow instant travel (because there is no magical/scientific explanation) then that would be alright as well.

Roleplay is defined by lore, if the lore allows it then there is nothing against using it, likewise if the lore forbids it then there is no problem with it either. Part of roleplay is to work within the parameters that the lore sets. if the developers wish to change the lore that is already in existence then that is their prerogative.

Roleplaying is a game, not a re-enactment. The need for tools as a game comes before lore, it is very useful for people to be able to roleplay on a chat channel, so you fudge as need be.

If the game has instant travel you would hope there would be a lore explanation for it, if not it is not needed.

I agree that we must use the lore as our parameter, but what’s good for RP is an overarching concern, this is a age old conundrum role players have chewed over since the dawn of MMO’s.

Your interest is great - ideas are great - but unless you have millions of dollars/investors/etc. it's not going to happen.  Now, however, if you do have these things - I would hope you remember that most mmorpgs have lost or never had the sense of hero making.  What I'm saying is - I want to know that I will have that heroic feeling as I engage in something epic.

Dark Age of Camelot gave me this feeling - and, instead of going out into some weird random box of ideas - it had relevence to real world mythology, i.e., Norse, Celt, Arthurian.  Man was that cool - but Mythic in their brilliance have turned their backs on her development and never focused worth a crud on viable marketing/advertising of the game.

Any chance you'd be willing to make an mmorpg that entailed a recognizable series of archetypes, i.e., the medieval fantasy classes that we all are well aware of, multiple races, and yes - politics must exist - hence, multiple realms!

Finally, seige warfare - in other words, if the enemy can build it - we should be able to destroy it.  This includes towers, walls, capturable areas as well - resource points.

Games of reference:

Dark Age of Camelot's RvR system as well as their other unique pvp experience, i.e., Their RvR dungeon that one could level/group/rvr in from levels 20 (roughly) to 50...raids included.  Realms would fight over this location - what a blast that was - yet another purpose to realm v realm combat.

Shadowbane's Siege System

For pve - hrm...I would suggest looking at what made Asheron's Call so fun -

Also, housing, guild housing, and might I add the graphical quality of Lord of the Rings online? lol - am I dreaming?

OP, I like your thinking and wish you the best of luck.

Unfortunately, I don't want to help you too much because your ideas overlap mine... way too much.

I firmly believe that what you want is entirely possible if designed correctly - and that will be the secret to your success or failure.

I do have two pieces of advice for you however:

1/ Build (manage) your community from day one.
This is perhaps the biggest mistake MMO Devs are making these days.  Game Communities are formed well before the game even goes Beta.  If you allow your community (forums) to be filled up with 1337 t4lking smacktards then you really shouldn't be surprised when your game ends up with the same folks running around PWNING everyone in game.
You community will form a standard of behaviour based on what you allow before that community even gets close to the game.

2/ Get an account in Pardus and read the Feature Request Forum Rules there.  Use them.

... come to think of it... if you ever get far enough and need a Community Manager - PM me.

Find a team that doesn't care about making money and you're golden!

Originally posted by Arshoon

 A world where you won't find one character named 'StabbyUDead' or 'HealzforU' is found.

Personally, I'd love to see just one MMO where character naming was this restrictive.   No names that are sentences.

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by Arshoon

 A world where you won't find one character named 'StabbyUDead' or 'HealzforU' is found.

 

Personally, I'd love to see just one MMO where character naming was this restrictive.   No names that are sentences.

same here, im sick of seeing people use random numbers, x's and upper and lower case mixed together. running around randomly seeing xXxiPwNz45 really kills any immersion that might have been possible.

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by Arshoon

 A world where you won't find one character named 'StabbyUDead' or 'HealzforU' is found.

 

Personally, I'd love to see just one MMO where character naming was this restrictive.   No names that are sentences.

Wizard 101 by Kingsisle.  It has a forum here on MMORPG.com.

These guys really did a very professional job from start to finish.

I am very disgusted by the little effort some developers put into stopping people use such non-roleplaying names, especially on what they call "roleplay servers", even reporting often has such a little effect that people can't be bothered doing it anymore.

If a game is released for roleplaying only I would be suprised if people with weird names like XXPawnUXX would want to play anyway.

Originally posted by haratu

I am very disgusted by the little effort some developers put into stopping people use such non-roleplaying names, especially on what they call "roleplay servers", even reporting often has such a little effect that people can't be bothered doing it anymore.

If a game is released for roleplaying only I would be suprised if people with weird names like XXPawnUXX would want to play anyway.

But to release a game that is 'roleplay only' requires some clever design.  Think about it.

You have to put in some real game mechanics to back up those words or the LOLZ crowd will simply come in and go on a greifing trip.  They don't care.  So what if their account is deleted within 30 minutes?  In that 30 minutes a griefer could do a lot of damage. 

FWIW i do believe it is possible.  But it is definately a design challenge.

Civilizations Online. FPS MMO

Originally posted by Gemma

Find a team that doesn't care about making money and you're golden!

I think this is likely to be pretty close to the truth. While the big money is obsessed by WoW sized markets they're unlikely to consider niche games. I think it will be indie developers trying to make games they themselves would want to play, grinding out semi successful niche games through stubborn obsessiveness, that show the money there's profit in it and then the money will join in.

Originally posted by haratu

I am very disgusted by the little effort some developers put into stopping people use such non-roleplaying names, especially on what they call "roleplay servers", even reporting often has such a little effect that people can't be bothered doing it anymore.

If a game is released for roleplaying only I would be suprised if people with weird names like XXPawnUXX would want to play anyway.

Lol. They'd be queuing up for weeks because the griefage potential would be so huge.

A griefer's idea of heaven would be a full loot FFA role-playing PvP server where they were a priestess for the God of apple pie and fluffy bunnies in the most goodie of the goodie races with a name like Mangina PsychoD**e, corpse camping level 1 newbies till they quit.

I think RP names need to be implemented as a first/last name drop down list based on the race. If what you wanted wasn't in the list then you could email in a request and if accepted that name could be added.

Yeah, the name thing.

I'm in England, therefore I play on EU servers alongside a lot of different nationalities since most games only put out dedicated servers for a few of the more common european languages like english, french and german. There's typically only a couple of dedicated RP servers per language.

Hence, the english RP servers get most of the scandinavians; the spanish, italians and belgians, the eastern europeans, the russians .. some from as far away as India. And it's cool, it's awesome to chat to the russians who sound like Zangief on vent, or the scandinavian ladies that are actually natural blondes, and who doesn't love trying to explain to a belgian what marmite is.

But the names, man.. the names. Some of them suck so badly when it comes to names! .. as well as having a penchant for picking terrible and generic names based on class/race, it's an extremely common and irritating practice to append an abbreviation of their countrycode to their names, presumably to make it easier to identify others from the same country. So we get GnomeMageDK from Denmark, HunterSWE from Sweden and the like.