Back in Vanilla WOW, I wanted to group because it was more fun playing with friends.  Even if you're not actually grouped and just questing along side eachother, it was more fun.  Being on a PvP server also made is safer, since it was fun chasing any soloers out of the area.   I wanted to see every dungeon, because I just wanted to see the coolest areas of the game and experience everything.  I wanted some of those unique, powerful weapons I saw people carrying.  I wanted to be better than the next guy and having better gear made my character more powerful.  Knowing how to group made me a better player.   Because I had decent gear and played my Shaman very well, I got group invites all the time.   Had a nice guild.  Had a nice alliance with a few other nice guilds.  Plenty of friends.  Plenty of people to play with whenever I wanted.  And when I wanted to play alone, I could.  Of course constant tells to "come on over to dungeon X" didn't make me want to solo all that much;)  But at least I had the option.

Of course other people ONLY cared about getting to max level.  They were shocked that they didn't have any friends.  Shocked when they didn't get invited to raids.  They were shocked that they got whooped in PvP, because all they had were scraps from the AH.  Shocked that the end-game wasn't so much fun.  So the ability to solo doesn't ruin MMOs.  PEOPLE who ONLY want to SOLO eventually ruin MMOs for THEMSELVES, if they don't understand that some things should be designed around a group to give the game depth.   The two play styles can cooexist fine and do in certain games.   Its the people who WANT IT ALL that ruin MMOs.

Originally posted by Demonshank

[quote][i]Originally posted by Marcus-[/i] I'll go out on a limb here, and say soloers want gear just as good as everyone else, because (as an example), if I as a soloer, meet you (as a raider?) with much better gear, in a pvp situation, and you hand me my butt, not because you were better skilled, but had better gear, well, where does that put me? Other than holding my butt? How long do you think i will continue to pay a monthly fee for that? As for why a soloer would want as much content, how long do you think i am going to pay a monthly fee after i run out of content? In a nutshell, getting killed in PvP because i cant aquire the gear thats neccasary to compete, or standing around because i have run out of content, is no longer fun, and thats why i play $15 a month.[/quote]

 

The gear is there for you. Why can you not go earn it like the person who owned you did? Again, the gear is there for you too. Nobody stops you from earning that gear. Are you special?

Simply because some of us either don't like to raid with 25-40+ other people for hours on end or because we don't have the means to do it. Some people have families, kids or erratic schedules. Those people pay the same $15 but are treated like second class citizens in most MMOs.

The majority of gamers in MMOs are casual but have access to sub par gear and the least content. Why? Because current MMOs are still following the old EQ style and WoW in particular was designed by ex-EQ raiders. Who share the same greedy, I'm better than you, outlook.

However, you're forgetting one most important aspect of what MMOs are. They are a form of entertainment not a job.

Originally posted by Josher

Back in Vanilla WOW, I wanted to group because it was more fun playing with friends.  Even if you're not actually grouped and just questing along side eachother, it was more fun.  Being on a PvP server also made is safer, since it was fun chasing any soloers out of the area.   I wanted to see every dungeon, because I just wanted to see the coolest areas of the game and experience everything.  I wanted some of those unique, powerful weapons I saw people carrying.  I wanted to be better than the next guy and having better gear made my character more powerful.  Knowing how to group made me a better player.   Because I had decent gear and played my Shaman very well, I got group invites all the time.   Had a nice guild.  Had a nice alliance with a few other nice guilds.  Plenty of friends.  Plenty of people to play with whenever I wanted.  And when I wanted to play alone, I could.  Of course constant tells to "come on over to dungeon X" didn't make me want to solo all that much;)  But at least I had the option.

Of course other people ONLY cared about getting to max level.  They were shocked that they didn't have any friends.  Shocked when they didn't get invited to raids.  They were shocked that they got whooped in PvP, because all they had were scraps from the AH.  Shocked that the end-game wasn't so much fun.  So the ability to solo doesn't ruin MMOs.  PEOPLE who ONLY want to SOLO eventually ruin MMOs for THEMSELVES, if they don't understand that some things should be designed around a group to give the game depth.   The two play styles can cooexist fine and do in certain games.   Its the people who WANT IT ALL that ruin MMOs.

Wow forces you to group. The game is group or die so this arguments not valid other then your personal experience and enjoyment when grouping.

People that enjoy soloing also like grouping and everything right here is just wrong. The power in wow is left in the players hands. If you didn't like someone for whatever reason you could if other people liked you enough stop that person's progression in a heart beat.

Wow is probably the most abuse of power we have seen since Bush got into office. From loot, grouping and even trying to get HWL or GM and now a reasonable arena rating in some cases.

Originally posted by Cypryss

Originally posted by Josher

Back in Vanilla WOW, I wanted to group because it was more fun playing with friends.  Even if you're not actually grouped and just questing along side eachother, it was more fun.  Being on a PvP server also made is safer, since it was fun chasing any soloers out of the area.   I wanted to see every dungeon, because I just wanted to see the coolest areas of the game and experience everything.  I wanted some of those unique, powerful weapons I saw people carrying.  I wanted to be better than the next guy and having better gear made my character more powerful.  Knowing how to group made me a better player.   Because I had decent gear and played my Shaman very well, I got group invites all the time.   Had a nice guild.  Had a nice alliance with a few other nice guilds.  Plenty of friends.  Plenty of people to play with whenever I wanted.  And when I wanted to play alone, I could.  Of course constant tells to "come on over to dungeon X" didn't make me want to solo all that much;)  But at least I had the option.

Of course other people ONLY cared about getting to max level.  They were shocked that they didn't have any friends.  Shocked when they didn't get invited to raids.  They were shocked that they got whooped in PvP, because all they had were scraps from the AH.  Shocked that the end-game wasn't so much fun.  So the ability to solo doesn't ruin MMOs.  PEOPLE who ONLY want to SOLO eventually ruin MMOs for THEMSELVES, if they don't understand that some things should be designed around a group to give the game depth.   The two play styles can cooexist fine and do in certain games.   Its the people who WANT IT ALL that ruin MMOs.

 

Wow forces you to group. The game is group or die so this arguments not valid other then your personal experience and enjoyment when grouping.

People that enjoy soloing also like grouping and everything right here is just wrong. The power in wow is left in the players hands. If you didn't like someone for whatever reason you could if other people liked you enough stop that person's progression in a heart beat.

Wow is probably the most abuse of power we have seen since Bush got into office. From loot, grouping and even trying to get HWL or GM and now a reasonable arena rating in some cases.

WoW dos not force you to group at all... WoW is one of the most solo friendly games on the market by far... other then raiding you never need to group to advance in WoW.

Any game that uses the quest grind model is a solo friendly game.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Cypryss

Originally posted by Josher

Back in Vanilla WOW, I wanted to group because it was more fun playing with friends.  Even if you're not actually grouped and just questing along side eachother, it was more fun.  Being on a PvP server also made is safer, since it was fun chasing any soloers out of the area.   I wanted to see every dungeon, because I just wanted to see the coolest areas of the game and experience everything.  I wanted some of those unique, powerful weapons I saw people carrying.  I wanted to be better than the next guy and having better gear made my character more powerful.  Knowing how to group made me a better player.   Because I had decent gear and played my Shaman very well, I got group invites all the time.   Had a nice guild.  Had a nice alliance with a few other nice guilds.  Plenty of friends.  Plenty of people to play with whenever I wanted.  And when I wanted to play alone, I could.  Of course constant tells to "come on over to dungeon X" didn't make me want to solo all that much;)  But at least I had the option.

Of course other people ONLY cared about getting to max level.  They were shocked that they didn't have any friends.  Shocked when they didn't get invited to raids.  They were shocked that they got whooped in PvP, because all they had were scraps from the AH.  Shocked that the end-game wasn't so much fun.  So the ability to solo doesn't ruin MMOs.  PEOPLE who ONLY want to SOLO eventually ruin MMOs for THEMSELVES, if they don't understand that some things should be designed around a group to give the game depth.   The two play styles can cooexist fine and do in certain games.   Its the people who WANT IT ALL that ruin MMOs.

 

Wow forces you to group. The game is group or die so this arguments not valid other then your personal experience and enjoyment when grouping.

People that enjoy soloing also like grouping and everything right here is just wrong. The power in wow is left in the players hands. If you didn't like someone for whatever reason you could if other people liked you enough stop that person's progression in a heart beat.

Wow is probably the most abuse of power we have seen since Bush got into office. From loot, grouping and even trying to get HWL or GM and now a reasonable arena rating in some cases.

 

WoW dos not force you to group at all... WoW is one of the most solo friendly games on the market by far... other then raiding you never need to group to advance in WoW.

Any game that uses the quest grind model is a solo friendly game.

I'm sorry the only thing i found to be able to progresses on cutting edge progression in Wow to it's fullest while soloing was Rep,Leveling and Battlegrounds. Professions to this day still get road blocked by placing scrolls and crafting mats that are top grade in raid 25 man max instances. True wow is easier to level and rep grind then most mmorpgs but it's far from a soloable game as you can get.

Also try out Requiem, GW  is just as easy to level in.

Josher also said that people that enjoy solo content are ruining mmorpgs. That is far from the truth. Look around, if anything we are supporting for more epic lore content while playing the mmo and everyone wants that. Proof is Bioware and TOR. Everything is voice based quests. By the looks of it, with an epic storyline.

Now who doesn't want that ? 

Originally posted by afoaa

 The problem is that MMOs don't encourage grouping. They make soloing more efficient these days than grouping and then later on force grouping. Both are bad things and both can be solved in the same way.

Encourage grouping by making it more fun, efficient and rewarding than solo'ing and people will group. It's that simple; people will do what they find most entertaining and rewarding to do.

In DaoC they put in an XP boost for grouping. The more people there were in a group the more XP everyone gained from every activity they did. In CoX they made missions much more rewarding the more people there were in a group that entered it. And once people get used to grouping because it's rewarding the more they will also group later on with people they have gotten to know.

Never force grouping, just make it a good idea to do it. Then everyone should be happy. Also remember to give rewards to people who help each other to level and do stuff, like if you power level friends. This is a good social activity that again reward and encourage grouping.

WaR was the worst case of all the MMOs I have played. First they made it impossible for people with different play times to groupo with each other because if there were any lvl difference then people would get no XP what so ever in a group both for high and low lvls. Secondly there were such a great reduction in XP from grouping that people that grouped were quickly passed by soloers in lvls. This were incredible stupid of mythic and drove off many daoc players who were used to having the social activity of the groups being rewarded by the game system instead of it being a penalty.

Funny, as I first started reading this post, I was thinking 'that's exactly why I play Warhammer', but then I read further along and noticed that you obviously don't agree (based on what you said in your last paragraph).

I can't help but wonder if we are/were playing the same game. Granted Warhammer has it's share of issues, but I don't see how you can claim that it is the worst MMO from a grouping standpoint. If you truly feel that way, then you obviously need to try some more MMOs. First, your comment about those that soloed, passing groupers is absolute crap. Either that or you are comparing apples to oranges. Several friends and I leveled together and the friend that chose to solo the most was constantly falling behind. Furthermore, the PQs are a fantastic way to encourage grouping and meeting new people. I've met several cool players, that way. Also, other games have taken note and have already started to copy the PQ format.  Most importantly, the fastest way to lvl in Warhammer is to do constant SCs in which the lower lvl chars appear to get more xp in comparative terms than the higher lvl chars playing within the same tier.

I've stuck with Warhammer through all of it's problems and criticism for the simple reason that I would rather play with others than solo and the whole premise of War seems to encourage it. I mean to me that is the point of an M-M-O in the first place. I've also found that Warhammer has a lot fewer asshats than the plethora that now plague WoW and have ruined that game for me. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've found Warhammer to have the best community of any MMO I've played this side of LOTRO.

Lastly, aside from commenting on the post above I wanted to add that I believe that there's something really wrong with those of you anti-group people out there and you should seek immediate help. Either you're a big fat chicken#$%! Care Bear or you spent too much time being shoved into that locker in high school and got so used to being alone that you pee yourself from nervousness when you are around others. Worst of all, your also the most likely to go postal. So do us all a favor, strap on a diaper and try grouping and maybe it'll save some lives! 

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Cypryss

Originally posted by Josher

Back in Vanilla WOW, I wanted to group because it was more fun playing with friends.  Even if you're not actually grouped and just questing along side eachother, it was more fun.  Being on a PvP server also made is safer, since it was fun chasing any soloers out of the area.   I wanted to see every dungeon, because I just wanted to see the coolest areas of the game and experience everything.  I wanted some of those unique, powerful weapons I saw people carrying.  I wanted to be better than the next guy and having better gear made my character more powerful.  Knowing how to group made me a better player.   Because I had decent gear and played my Shaman very well, I got group invites all the time.   Had a nice guild.  Had a nice alliance with a few other nice guilds.  Plenty of friends.  Plenty of people to play with whenever I wanted.  And when I wanted to play alone, I could.  Of course constant tells to "come on over to dungeon X" didn't make me want to solo all that much;)  But at least I had the option.

Of course other people ONLY cared about getting to max level.  They were shocked that they didn't have any friends.  Shocked when they didn't get invited to raids.  They were shocked that they got whooped in PvP, because all they had were scraps from the AH.  Shocked that the end-game wasn't so much fun.  So the ability to solo doesn't ruin MMOs.  PEOPLE who ONLY want to SOLO eventually ruin MMOs for THEMSELVES, if they don't understand that some things should be designed around a group to give the game depth.   The two play styles can cooexist fine and do in certain games.   Its the people who WANT IT ALL that ruin MMOs.

 

Wow forces you to group. The game is group or die so this arguments not valid other then your personal experience and enjoyment when grouping.

People that enjoy soloing also like grouping and everything right here is just wrong. The power in wow is left in the players hands. If you didn't like someone for whatever reason you could if other people liked you enough stop that person's progression in a heart beat.

Wow is probably the most abuse of power we have seen since Bush got into office. From loot, grouping and even trying to get HWL or GM and now a reasonable arena rating in some cases.

 

WoW dos not force you to group at all... WoW is one of the most solo friendly games on the market by far... other then raiding you never need to group to advance in WoW.

Any game that uses the quest grind model is a solo friendly game.

WoW has two types of progression. The XP progression where you gain levels and gear progression which typically starts once you reach max level. In other words, once you reach max level with your character, you continue progression but along a different route.

While XP progression in WoW could be accomplished completely solo, once you've reached max level you're faced with two options:

1. Retire the character.

2. Continue progressing the same character through gear.

The only way to do option 2 is via a group or raid.

WoW is also very endgame oriented and leveling is just a means to reaching the 'real' game.

In other words, WoW is solo friendly only for the beginning portion of the game and once you reach max level, it does a complete 180 and becomes a group only game.

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by afoaa

 The problem is that MMOs don't encourage grouping. They make soloing more efficient these days than grouping and then later on force grouping. Both are bad things and both can be solved in the same way.

Encourage grouping by making it more fun, efficient and rewarding than solo'ing and people will group. It's that simple; people will do what they find most entertaining and rewarding to do.

In DaoC they put in an XP boost for grouping. The more people there were in a group the more XP everyone gained from every activity they did. In CoX they made missions much more rewarding the more people there were in a group that entered it. And once people get used to grouping because it's rewarding the more they will also group later on with people they have gotten to know.

Never force grouping, just make it a good idea to do it. Then everyone should be happy. Also remember to give rewards to people who help each other to level and do stuff, like if you power level friends. This is a good social activity that again reward and encourage grouping.

WaR was the worst case of all the MMOs I have played. First they made it impossible for people with different play times to groupo with each other because if there were any lvl difference then people would get no XP what so ever in a group both for high and low lvls. Secondly there were such a great reduction in XP from grouping that people that grouped were quickly passed by soloers in lvls. This were incredible stupid of mythic and drove off many daoc players who were used to having the social activity of the groups being rewarded by the game system instead of it being a penalty.

 

 

 

I can't help but wonder if we are/were playing the same game. Granted Warhammer has it's share of issues, but I don't see how you can claim that it is the worst MMO from a grouping standpoint. If you truly feel that way, then you obviously need to try some more MMOs. First, your comment about those that soloed, passing groupers is absolute crap. Either that or you are comparing apples to oranges. Several friends and I leveled together and the friend that chose to solo the most was constantly falling behind. Furthermore, the PQs are a fantastic way to encourage grouping and meeting new people. I've met several cool players, that way. Also, other games have taken note and have already started to copy the PQ format.  Most importantly, the fastest way to lvl in Warhammer is to do constant SCs in which the lower lvl chars appear to get more xp in comparative terms than the higher lvl chars playing within the same tier.

I've stuck with Warhammer through all of it's problems and criticism for the simple reason that I would rather play with others than solo and the whole premise of War seems to encourage it. I mean to me that is the point of an M-M-O in the first place. I've also found that Warhammer has a lot fewer asshats than the plethora that now plague WoW and have ruined that game for me. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've found Warhammer to have the best community of any MMO I've played this side of LOTRO.

Lastly, aside from commenting on the post above I wanted to add that I believe that there's something really wrong with those of you anti-group people out there and you should seek immediate help. Either you're a big fat chicken#$%! Care Bear or you spent too much time being shoved into that locker in high school and got so used to being alone that you pee yourself from nervousness when you are around others. Worst of all, your also the most likely to go postal. So do us all a favor, strap on a diaper and try grouping and maybe it'll save some lives! 

Funny, as I first started reading this post, I was thinking 'that's exactly why I play Warhammer', but then I read further along and noticed that you obviously don't agree (based on what you said in your last paragraph).

As a "soloer" i really liked warhammers approach to gameplay. Not because i want to go hide in a closet by myself, but because I can (or could) join a raid group as soon as i logged in, and go defend the realm and/or partipate in "endgame" .

I don't want to play an MMO where i have to stand around for the next two hours waiting for the perfect balance of 10-15 or 20 people so we can get started heading into a dungeon. Who has lock out timers, who needs to go afk for 10 more mintues, who forgot their, whatever they need....

Its been said a few times in the thread already, "soloers" dont just .... ahh nevermind.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Cypryss

Originally posted by Josher

Back in Vanilla WOW, I wanted to group because it was more fun playing with friends.  Even if you're not actually grouped and just questing along side eachother, it was more fun.  Being on a PvP server also made is safer, since it was fun chasing any soloers out of the area.   I wanted to see every dungeon, because I just wanted to see the coolest areas of the game and experience everything.  I wanted some of those unique, powerful weapons I saw people carrying.  I wanted to be better than the next guy and having better gear made my character more powerful.  Knowing how to group made me a better player.   Because I had decent gear and played my Shaman very well, I got group invites all the time.   Had a nice guild.  Had a nice alliance with a few other nice guilds.  Plenty of friends.  Plenty of people to play with whenever I wanted.  And when I wanted to play alone, I could.  Of course constant tells to "come on over to dungeon X" didn't make me want to solo all that much;)  But at least I had the option.

Of course other people ONLY cared about getting to max level.  They were shocked that they didn't have any friends.  Shocked when they didn't get invited to raids.  They were shocked that they got whooped in PvP, because all they had were scraps from the AH.  Shocked that the end-game wasn't so much fun.  So the ability to solo doesn't ruin MMOs.  PEOPLE who ONLY want to SOLO eventually ruin MMOs for THEMSELVES, if they don't understand that some things should be designed around a group to give the game depth.   The two play styles can cooexist fine and do in certain games.   Its the people who WANT IT ALL that ruin MMOs.

 

Wow forces you to group. The game is group or die so this arguments not valid other then your personal experience and enjoyment when grouping.

People that enjoy soloing also like grouping and everything right here is just wrong. The power in wow is left in the players hands. If you didn't like someone for whatever reason you could if other people liked you enough stop that person's progression in a heart beat.

Wow is probably the most abuse of power we have seen since Bush got into office. From loot, grouping and even trying to get HWL or GM and now a reasonable arena rating in some cases.

 

WoW dos not force you to group at all... WoW is one of the most solo friendly games on the market by far... other then raiding you never need to group to advance in WoW.

Any game that uses the quest grind model is a solo friendly game.

WoW has two types of progression. The XP progression where you gain levels and gear progression which typically starts once you reach max level. In other words, once you reach max level with your character, you continue progression but along a different route.

While XP progression in WoW could be accomplished completely solo, once you've reached max level you're faced with two options:

1. Retire the character.

2. Continue progressing the same character through gear.

The only way to do option 2 is via a group or raid.

WoW is also very endgame oriented and leveling is just a means to reaching the 'real' game.

In other words, WoW is solo friendly only for the beginning portion of the game and once you reach max level, it does a complete 180 and becomes a group only game.

Lets be frank here. Leveling only purpose is to teach new players and players that reroll classes so, that at end game they can better master the rails of that class and know what they need for the play style they are after.  I'd hardly call leveling a new character a game.

In the end all that matters is end game. If it didn't then people would just end up rerolling all the time or just quit playing. Oh wait., they already do that.

Saying that end game is reserved only for people that like to group all the time is bullshit and you know it.

Really what do you need to group for? Raids and Dungeons and some exps and dungeon consist Bosses..Big fucking deal.I have a high lvl character..If one of the guildies need something and i am bored as hell he will party me and solo on his own.In the mean time i kick ass in the dungeons by my self with out some idiot ,must have to stop for every reason under the sun..I can finish a dungeon faster at higher level and still get what gear needed for the guildie; then it is to group.Or i just might help with a player quest that forces players to group to go there.Of course i charge a fee too..:P What can i say first time players who wants to go in a dungeon.haha But they keep the gear.I am not that much of a prick like some players are..:P

Another true fact.When War hammer came out.There were allot of players who thought that the game was pve..It just goes to show that allot of players per-fer to go solo, then to hang around with turkeys...

So it obivious you dont need to group to kill creatures at low lvl or med. lvl..Allot will group for just Exps,/Raids,Dungeons..I have a guild that i join..I chat and sometime help others with there dungeon quest..After that they go back to solo..Really to group is a waste of time, unless you are in a game that REQUIRES to group all the time..But hey that game won't have many players either..

Last but not least.If they want players to group, they will have to make where everyone gets there feet wet from lvl 1 to what ever.Everyone must take part in doing something and not stand around with there thumb up there ass..Until the game makers can come up with better ideas..Grouping still suxs and that is my opinion..

Edit MOD

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Lastly, aside from commenting on the post above I wanted to add that I believe that there's something really wrong with those of you anti-group people out there and you should seek immediate help. Either you're a big fat chicken#$%! Care Bear or you spent too much time being shoved into that locker in high school and got so used to being alone that you pee yourself from nervousness when you are around others. Worst of all, your also the most likely to go postal. So do us all a favor, strap on a diaper and try grouping and maybe it'll save some lives! 

So just because I enjoy playing a GAME a certain way, something is really wrong with me?

OK, I'll play that game. I think something is wrong with people who only want to group. They are obviously suffering from fear of being independent and self-sufficient. They have an overwhelming need to rely on others to help them with everything they do.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (DSM IV) calls it Dependent Personality Disorder.

See? I can play that game too.

 No, there are TWO things ruining MMOs today.

First are the developers themselves. They just lost all imagination and thinking outside of the box(hate that term but hey whatever). Out of the hundreds of games listed on the left how many are brining in new players and keeping old players to sustain the MMO market? Maybe 10-20? Out of hundreds? That's a terrible percentage.

Second are the crybaby bitches on both sides about soloing or grouping. Why can't people solo and do wtf they want without being bashed by groupers? Why can't groupers do wtf they want without soloers pissing and moaning about what they get? Both sides are just jockeying for position and eventually MMO developers will feel like they can't make either side happy and just say "Fuck it no one is ever happy. Let's just make something else."

I just want soloers and groupers to STFU and play the game the way they want and not think or worry about what everyone else is doing!

Originally posted by seabass2003

 No, there are TWO things ruining MMOs today.

First are the developers themselves. They just lost all imagination and thinking outside of the box(hate that term but hey whatever). Out of the hundreds of games listed on the left how many are brining in new players and keeping old players to sustain the MMO market? Maybe 10-20? Out of hundreds? That's a terrible percentage.

Second are the crybaby bitches on both sides about soloing or grouping. Why can't people solo and do wtf they want without being bashed by groupers? Why can't groupers do wtf they want without soloers pissing and moaning about what they get? Both sides are just jockeying for position and eventually MMO developers will feel like they can't make either side happy and just say "Fuck it no one is ever happy. Let's just make something else."

I just want soloers and groupers to STFU and play the game the way they want and not think or worry about what everyone else is doing!

Because the groupers cant find anyone to group with because the rest of the players are soloers...

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Originally posted by Marcus- I'll go out on a limb here, and say soloers want gear just as good as everyone else, because (as an example), if I as a soloer, meet you (as a raider?) with much better gear, in a pvp situation, and you hand me my butt, not because you were better skilled, but had better gear, well, where does that put me? Other than holding my butt? How long do you think i will continue to pay a monthly fee for that? As for why a soloer would want as much content, how long do you think i am going to pay a monthly fee after i run out of content? In a nutshell, getting killed in PvP because i cant aquire the gear thats neccasary to compete, or standing around because i have run out of content, is no longer fun, and thats why i play $15 a month.

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Originally posted by Demonshank
The gear is there for you. Why can you not go earn it like the person who owned you did? Again, the gear is there for you too. Nobody stops you from earning that gear. Are you special?

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Originally posted by Marcus-
Special? No.
But I don't see myself paying $15 a month for something i don't enjoy doing.
Apparently there are a lot of people who play MMOs who feel the same way. So many in fact, game design is changing.

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Well then, Fuck you Burgerking! Have it your way is ruining MMO's!! I hope you're happy. Marcus- is serving up whoppers all over this forum. He wants it his way! He doesnt care if it isnt conducive to the fundamental multiplayer design. He is paying his money and come hell, or high water, he and his radical soloists, will create such angst within the community that the developers will appease his demands.

Special? Nah, not at all. Well I pay my $15 to accomplish goals created by the developers, not enter their game and demand my own rules. Gear(rewards) is easy to attain. Simply by earning what you're UNWILLING to seek by designed methods, it should put me well above you in terms of strength and power. If you see me coming, better RUN(dont walk) the other way, cause im gonna kick your measly butt all over the place with my deserved power.

Originally posted by hoopty

Really what do you need to group for? Raids and Dungeons and some exps and dungeon consist Bosses..Big fucking deal.I have a high lvl character..If one of the guildies need something and i am bored as hell he will party me and solo on his own.In the mean time i kick ass in the dungeons by my self with out some idiot ,must have to stop for every reason under the sun..I can finish a dungeon faster at higher level and still get what gear needed for the guildie; then it is to group.Or i just might help with a player quest that forces players to group to go there.Of course i charge a fee too..:P What can i say first time players who wants to go in a dungeon.haha But they keep the gear.I am not that much of a prick like some players are..:P

Another true fact.When War hammer came out.There were allot of players who thought that the game was pve..It just goes to show that allot of players per-fer to go solo, then to hang around with turkeys...

So it obivious you dont need to group to kill creatures at low lvl or med. lvl..Allot will group for just Exps,/Raids,Dungeons..I have a guild that i join..I chat and sometime help others with there dungeon quest..After that they go back to solo..Really to group is a waste of time, unless you are in a game that REQUIRES to group all the time..But hey that game won't have many players either..

 

Last but not least.If they want players to group, they will have to make where everyone gets there feet wet from lvl 1 to what ever.Everyone must take part in doing something and not stand around with there thumb up there ass..Until the game makers can come up with better ideas..Grouping still suxs and that is my opinion..

 

Edit MOD

 

 

The main problem here isn't Raiding or grouping to raid. The problem is group content monopolizes cutting edge progression and has a hell of a lot more content stuck with it then any solo content out there.

I can progress faster with a fresh character at end game just running bgs solo get semi good grade gear to in enhance my pvp effectiveness then i ever could with pve raiding. Also my professions in some mmorpgs are held hostage and once capped there isn't any way to turn  a buck unless i am a raider. Believe it or not i use to be an officer of a top raiding guild that raided Uladar and frankly i am just sick of the crap that needs to go into raiding where i found playing on my own most of the time was more enjoyable.

In wow Dailies do not give you tokens to get cutting edge progression grade items. It gets you a shitty mount or a useless pieces of junk that doesn't enchance your character.

Heck Blizzard is getting really nazi even when it comes to 2 people maxing out their sets for arena and moving weapons and shoulder item to be able to only be receive if you are in 3s and 5s with a x amount of Personal rating.

This shit isn't fun for everyone. It's flat out annoying.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Lastly, aside from commenting on the post above I wanted to add that I believe that there's something really wrong with those of you anti-group people out there and you should seek immediate help. Either you're a big fat chicken#$%! Care Bear or you spent too much time being shoved into that locker in high school and got so used to being alone that you pee yourself from nervousness when you are around others. Worst of all, your also the most likely to go postal. So do us all a favor, strap on a diaper and try grouping and maybe it'll save some lives! 

 

So just because I enjoy playing a GAME a certain way, something is really wrong with me?

OK, I'll play that game. I think something is wrong with people who only want to group. They are obviously suffering from fear of being independent and self-sufficient. They have an overwhelming need to rely on others to help them with everything they do.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (DSM IV) calls it Dependent Personality Disorder.

See? I can play that game too.

Hey man, don't go postal on me  

Oh, and by the way, I believe the site mixed up your avatar with Hoopty's!

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Lastly, aside from commenting on the post above I wanted to add that I believe that there's something really wrong with those of you anti-group people out there and you should seek immediate help. Either you're a big fat chicken#$%! Care Bear or you spent too much time being shoved into that locker in high school and got so used to being alone that you pee yourself from nervousness when you are around others. Worst of all, your also the most likely to go postal. So do us all a favor, strap on a diaper and try grouping and maybe it'll save some lives! 

 

So just because I enjoy playing a GAME a certain way, something is really wrong with me?

OK, I'll play that game. I think something is wrong with people who only want to group. They are obviously suffering from fear of being independent and self-sufficient. They have an overwhelming need to rely on others to help them with everything they do.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (DSM IV) calls it Dependent Personality Disorder.

See? I can play that game too.

 

Hey man, don't go postal on me  

Oh, and by the way, I believe the site mixed up your avatar with Hoopty's!

Poor attempt at trolling on your part, bro.

Originally posted by Demonshank

 

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Originally posted by Marcus- I'll go out on a limb here, and say soloers want gear just as good as everyone else, because (as an example), if I as a soloer, meet you (as a raider?) with much better gear, in a pvp situation, and you hand me my butt, not because you were better skilled, but had better gear, well, where does that put me? Other than holding my butt? How long do you think i will continue to pay a monthly fee for that? As for why a soloer would want as much content, how long do you think i am going to pay a monthly fee after i run out of content? In a nutshell, getting killed in PvP because i cant aquire the gear thats neccasary to compete, or standing around because i have run out of content, is no longer fun, and thats why i play $15 a month.

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Originally posted by Demonshank
The gear is there for you. Why can you not go earn it like the person who owned you did? Again, the gear is there for you too. Nobody stops you from earning that gear. Are you special?

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Originally posted by Marcus-
Special? No.
But I don't see myself paying $15 a month for something i don't enjoy doing.
Apparently there are a lot of people who play MMOs who feel the same way. So many in fact, game design is changing.

---

 

 

Well then, Fuck you Burgerking! Have it your way is ruining MMO's!! I hope you're happy. Marcus- is serving up whoppers all over this forum. He wants it his way! He doesnt care if it isnt conducive to the fundamental multiplayer design. He is paying his money and come hell, or high water, he and his radical soloists, will create such angst within the community that the developers will appease his demands.

Special? Nah, not at all. Well I pay my $15 to accomplish goals created by the developers, not enter their game and demand my own rules. Gear(rewards) is easy to attain. Simply by earning what you're UNWILLING to seek by designed methods, it should put me well above you in terms of strength and power. If you see me coming, better RUN(dont walk) the other way, cause im gonna kick your measly butt all over the place with my deserved power.

Heres the thing sunshine.. read slow, and maybe you'll catch on...

I  join Game A, and it doesn't  cater to my MMOs needs, thats ok, i really don't mind, I'll go try another. I don't go apeshit all over the boards, becuse outside of MMOs, I have a wife, a daughter, a great paying job, you know... a life.

Hey, lookie here, Game B has what I need, perfect! Heres my $15.. and I play along happy as a clam

Apparently, game A is seeing a lot more folks go to game B, so what does Game A do? Fold up and go home? I don't think so Mr Rocket Scientist.

hrmmm?

Don't blame me skippy, blame your precious game A

Originally posted by Demonshank

 

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Originally posted by Marcus- I'll go out on a limb here, and say soloers want gear just as good as everyone else, because (as an example), if I as a soloer, meet you (as a raider?) with much better gear, in a pvp situation, and you hand me my butt, not because you were better skilled, but had better gear, well, where does that put me? Other than holding my butt? How long do you think i will continue to pay a monthly fee for that? As for why a soloer would want as much content, how long do you think i am going to pay a monthly fee after i run out of content? In a nutshell, getting killed in PvP because i cant aquire the gear thats neccasary to compete, or standing around because i have run out of content, is no longer fun, and thats why i play $15 a month.

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Originally posted by Demonshank
The gear is there for you. Why can you not go earn it like the person who owned you did? Again, the gear is there for you too. Nobody stops you from earning that gear. Are you special?

---

 

 

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Originally posted by Marcus-
Special? No.
But I don't see myself paying $15 a month for something i don't enjoy doing.
Apparently there are a lot of people who play MMOs who feel the same way. So many in fact, game design is changing.

---

 

 

Well then, Fuck you Burgerking! Have it your way is ruining MMO's!! I hope you're happy. Marcus- is serving up whoppers all over this forum. He wants it his way! He doesnt care if it isnt conducive to the fundamental multiplayer design. He is paying his money and come hell, or high water, he and his radical soloists, will create such angst within the community that the developers will appease his demands.

Special? Nah, not at all. Well I pay my $15 to accomplish goals created by the developers, not enter their game and demand my own rules. Gear(rewards) is easy to attain. Simply by earning what you're UNWILLING to seek by designed methods, it should put me well above you in terms of strength and power. If you see me coming, better RUN(dont walk) the other way, cause im gonna kick your measly butt all over the place with my deserved power.

Reasonable post but, I have one question for you. How the hell are you going to group when no one is playing mmorpgs ? You want to go back to how things where before EQ ? Be my guest.

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by heartless

 

So just because I enjoy playing a GAME a certain way, something is really wrong with me?

OK, I'll play that game. I think something is wrong with people who only want to group. They are obviously suffering from fear of being independent and self-sufficient. They have an overwhelming need to rely on others to help them with everything they do.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (DSM IV) calls it Dependent Personality Disorder.

See? I can play that game too.

 

Hey man, don't go postal on me  

Oh, and by the way, I believe the site mixed up your avatar with Hoopty's!

Haha ..At least i got one...