Originally posted by lornphoenix

OK I'll touch on JGE and BP here.

1st off BP from what I seen and read looks more instanced then JGE.

Open a menu, pick a mission, and you are whisk away to it instantly... well after a short load screen, but still.

What worries me about JGE is Battlespace. The instance PvP zones, your arena like PvP.
I worry that Battlespace is going to kill Open RvR PvP in the contested area, kinda like Scenarios did in WAR.

 

Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.

In that case I would advise you to quit mmo's and hanging around in mmo forums. Afterall what's the point for you then? The time you waste hear you could do better stuff.

Originally posted by Draccan

I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine.

But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster?

SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo.

Who care whether it is a MMO by some definition when it can be a good game. And people say there is no innovation/change in the market. It will push SP elements into MMOs. That is new.

JGE - is like EVE without all the things that makes EVE great. Player economy won't be the same. It will be heavily instanced. PvP is arena like. Sure it appeal to the joystick crowd, but without depth it looks like meh..

And the casual PvE crowd who wants a space game.

All in all there is little to be excited about. At least not if you are looking for a massive - in-depth game.

Well, i am looking just for a GOOD game and it sounds like there are some good games in the list. Certainly TOR has teh potential to be good, or even great.

 

DCUO - Most anticipated. Wouldn't care if it had EQ 1 models/animations, love the DC universe and have waited long to play IN it.

JGE - Built a cockpit for this one. Might be the only MMOG worthwhile until next year.

SWTOR, STO - Have a long way to go, don't want to think about them.

MO, ER, BP - Like what I see, just waiting for a beta invite.

FE, HUXLEY, AION - Pass.

Also highly anticipating what's coming from 38 Studios, Red 5 Studios and Carbine Studios.

Originally posted by acidworm

DCUO - Most anticipated. Wouldn't care if it had EQ 1 models/animations, love the DC universe and have waited long to play IN it.

JGE - Built a cockpit for this one. Might be the only MMOG worthwhile until next year.

SWTOR, STO - Have a long way to go, don't want to think about them.

MO, ER, BP - Like what I see, just waiting for a beta invite.

FE, HUXLEY, AION - Pass.

Also highly anticipating what's coming from 38 Studios, Red 5 Studios and Carbine Studios.

 

 

thanks for the last sentence.  copernicus looks interesting especially considering who is involved.

Originally posted by Draccan

I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine.

But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster?

SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo.

JGE - is like EVE without all the things that makes EVE great. Player economy won't be the same. It will be heavily instanced. PvP is arena like. Sure it appeal to the joystick crowd, but without depth it looks like meh..

Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...

MO - Word on the street is that is is bad in a big way. The whole "pay for beta" and "we will releash it unfinished" is pretty bad, I think. Some will be happy - but certainly not a game of perfection coming out.

CO - this is just an update (copy paste, says some) of COH. I like the comic book graphics, actually. But again with no villain side from the get go, no real pvp, I see little incentive to play it. Slapping Villains on as an afterthought is just not a good or stable idea. For COH I had already gotten tired of it before COV came out.

EaRi - This is the one I really would like to like. On paper it got all the right things. Game videos though show it is still far from being great when it comes to combat. I am still keeping an eye out, though. Hopefully they can do something with this.

DC - this is just not going to fly. The game videos released look completely lackluster. And there is nothing in what they have released that looks anything but a boring theme park. It will flunk way more than CO, that at least have a cohesive style (hate it or love it)..

FE - Fallen Earth has some cool concepts, sandboxy elements. But the graphics look like something of the mid nineties. Like the first Rainbow 6 game. I can't get excited with something that looks worse than the average games for my iPhone. Also word on the street is pretty, pretty, PRETTY bad...

STO - after going in and out of development, I am kinda sceptical. Still to early to call, but I can't see any way that this can work and be true to the IP. With cockpits it will be  a mess. With pure spaceships like JGE it will not be Star Trek. I think this is a hit and run attempt to milk the IP, but let's be fair - we have no clue yet.

Huxley - pay pr. month to play Counterstrike? Hmm.. I don't think so. From what I have seen it lacks the depth and massiveness to make it an mmo worth paying a monthly fee for.

Black Prophecy - JGE-like game. I hope it will have more depth than JGE seems to have. Less instances, more open world, more hardcore pvp. I haven't followed it too much. We shall see..

 

All in all there is little to be excited about. At least not if you are looking for a massive - in-depth game. I am not looking for real life simulators as some might say - merely an in-depth game that offers everything the technology can bear. We have the chance to have real, large online games where you can build up and tear down worlds - and all we get is games that take us by the hands in their little IP theme parks. OR we get "hardcore" games like Darkfall that essentially just is bad development and bad ideas in the sense that to me (!) there is nothing hardcore about full loot ffa pvp either in an environment stripped of any pve or world content.

There is a big lack of intelligent design, great stories built upon massive worlds. I would play EVE which I respect a lot, if it just didn't feel boring to me.

I guess the class of 2009 - 2010 will not be a major one to remember...

 

I AGREE  %100 PERCENT!  IT'S TIME FOR GAME MAKERS TO WAKE UP TO THE POSSIBLITIES AND KICK START THIS GENRE WITH SOMETHING FRESH.  AND GAMERS, IF YOU ARE FED UP WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF GAMES, DON'T BUY THEM!  THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUT UP WITH CRAP ANY LONGER.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.

Seems the majority of players are not used to any pvp other than instances. I'm not for open pvp in the pve areas, but open pvp zones which are huge and freeflowing to add to the pvp experience instead of boxing it in. Think about it, was it more fun to sit in your room and play cop/robbers , cowboys/indians in your room or outside when you were a kid?

To answer the OP"s question.

Aion - if  PvPvE is as similar to Daoc as I'm reading.

Earthrise - I am really looking forward to.

DC Online-  Love the artwork, love the characters (GreenLantern owns all) , the game play looks smooth, but group vs group combat is an afterthought. I just think the idea of people running around playing heroes and villains and not having PvP'rs fight back and forth over territory and resources at the core of the game is flawed.

Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement.

Alright, so the "industry has failed" you.  What do you do now?  You go out and fix it.  Startup your own MMO.  Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive.  You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit.  Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions.  You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns.

However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen.  You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source.  Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...

Originally posted by Nessin

Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement.

Alright, so the "industry has failed" you.  What do you do now?  You go out and fix it.  Startup your own MMO.  Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive.  You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit.  Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions.  You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns.

However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen.  You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source.  Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...

I really really hope the highlighted comments were complete sarcasm.

Title should be industry has failed ME (ie you), and nothing else.

Originally posted by Greenie

Originally posted by Nessin

Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement.

Alright, so the "industry has failed" you.  What do you do now?  You go out and fix it.  Startup your own MMO.  Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive.  You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit.  Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions.  You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns.

However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen.  You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source.  Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...

 

I really really hope the highlighted comments were complete sarcasm.

Eh, the complete idiot part was a bit much.  I just get incensed over the people who mis-managed their money.  But it wasn't sarcasm.  If you've maintained a good credit line and have the drive, you could easily get a startup company going.  A collection of like-minded individuals with the skills to develop a MMORPG would be easy to maintain and support in the current environment.

And if you're refering to the loan part, well I've got you beat there.  I've actually had to get a loan recently, and had a couple friends go for various types (mostly real estate and/or construction) and gotten money no problems.  We all had good credit and our ducks in a row, so banks were more than happy to loan us money.

Nah I couldn't care less about the complete idiot part. Call him whatever you want. lol

But to start up a studio takes a huge financial investment. Just the licensing alone for software properties is monumental when you figure you have to get a license for every employee using it. At least that's how it worked at my friend's engineering firm for some of the CAD software.

On top of that, you've got servers , salaries, other hardware, working environment. The start up costs aren't something people nowadays are going to just get a loan for, at least it's not as easy peasy as you make it sound.

How many people do you plan on hiring?  Even if you say ok we'll hire 5 people and they'll work for peanuts what they usually would say $25k a year.   That's $125k a year you're spending in salaries for 5 people. How fast do you think they'll design an MMO ready for release to start earning money??

If MMO companies were so easy to start up, they'd be all over the place like fast-food chains and the bigboys wouldn't rush products to the market in order to recoup their investment. Every day that MMO doesn't release they're losing a ton of money.

I was referring to that, not the OP being an idiot.

when you say "us" who are you actually referring to? you certainly do not speak for me and theres a few titles in there im looking forward to trying out. go piss and moan somewhere else and dont include everyone in your crybaby ramblings.

Riiight because YOU are not excited the industry has failed US? Speak for yourself.

Originally posted by Greenie

Nah I couldn't care less about the complete idiot part. Call him whatever you want. lol

 

But to start up a studio takes a huge financial investment. Just the licensing alone for software properties is monumental when you figure you have to get a license for every employee using it. At least that's how it worked at my friend's engineering firm for some of the CAD software.

On top of that, you've got servers , salaries, other hardware, working environment. The start up costs aren't something people nowadays are going to just get a loan for, at least it's not as easy peasy as you make it sound.

How many people do you plan on hiring?  Even if you say ok we'll hire 5 people and they'll work for peanuts what they usually would say $25k a year.   That's $125k a year you're spending in salaries for 5 people. How fast do you think they'll design an MMO ready for release to start earning money??

If MMO companies were so easy to start up, they'd be all over the place like fast-food chains and the bigboys wouldn't rush products to the market in order to recoup their investment. Every day that MMO doesn't release they're losing a ton of money.

I was referring to that, not the OP being an idiot.

You make it work.  Do you think every successful business out there was started by a genius with deep pockets?  

I never said it was easy to build up a business, just that its easy to start one up.  Mainly because you can find people who will work for 25k, you don't need facilities if you can find a group of people who can collaborate online, or work at your own home if you're all local (a lot of software companies start up like that).  Licensing isn't all that expensive (relatively speaking) depending on what you need, you can easily keep it down to a few k per person.  Get creative and you'll realize a lot of expenses you immediately think of aren't necessary up front.  For example, servers and support hardware.  I could easily turn the very machine I'm typing this on into a server-side development box, or even the test box for pre-alpha development/testing.

In general anyone in a stable (hell, even some that aren't very stable) position in life can start up a company and make it successful in the sense that you can sustain the business on its own merits.  The problem is having a valid idea to work with and the willpower to go through with the risk.

The overall point is people complain about having the solution, and then don't do anything about it.  Either you have a solution and work on it, or you continue to complain and come off as nothing more than a nut job.  At least people who have issues with specific parts of a game can say they've found something their happy with it just need work.  Doesn't quite work when you say everything sucks and this is what we really need...

Originally posted by Nessin

You make it work.  Do you think every successful business out there was started by a genius with deep pockets?

No but I do think every successful business has had a revenue stream of some sort. To just jump in and make an MMO you dont have a revenue stream.  

 The problem is having a valid idea to work with and the willpower to go through with the risk.

The overall point is people complain about having the solution, and then don't do anything about it.  Either you have a solution and work on it, or you continue to complain and come off as nothing more than a nut job. 

Yea I agree with this pretty much 100%. But remember,, it's not easy for people to risk everything. It's hard enough to hold on to what you've got.  But your point is well-taken.

Originally posted by Draccan 

But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster?

No.

And for the record I have no special favorite - I await them all eagerly.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lornphoenix

OK I'll touch on JGE and BP here.

1st off BP from what I seen and read looks more instanced then JGE.

Open a menu, pick a mission, and you are whisk away to it instantly... well after a short load screen, but still.

What worries me about JGE is Battlespace. The instance PvP zones, your arena like PvP.
I worry that Battlespace is going to kill Open RvR PvP in the contested area, kinda like Scenarios did in WAR.

 

Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.

Oh I don't have any problem People enjoying them. I like BGs and WG in WoW and Scenarios in WAR myself.
Problem comes when that is the only things people do... leaving the Open World RvR areas empty... thus pointless.

Originally posted by Swanea

Title should be industry has failed ME (ie you), and nothing else.

He sure as hell doesn't speak for me.

I'm pretty happy with EVE atm but I am looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution, Black prophecy, Aion, and Champions online.

I'm the least worried bout Aion since i played it open beta. had great graphics, jaw dropping characters, but PVE was suck like every other MMO. but hoping pve gets better beyond early levels once i get wings and really hoping PVP is awesome

Champions online and Aion will probably be preorders for me. Really worried about champions. I never considered Cryptic a good game dev really. The good things bout city of heroes was really only the costume designer. The pvp had its good points even tho crytpic dropped the ball on it.

So aion is really only one i can see really being polished. CO sounds a bit rushed too me.