Originally posted by Krewel

Avery stated (out of his ass again, ofc) that supposedly the majority of players are not farming tier 2 raids or are not even level 80 yet. But after reading the global chat for 5 minutes you can see pugs forming for every possible raid dungeon. That doesn't even happen in WoW (at least not for Ulduar 25). After 15 months it is safe to assume that AoC players are doing tier 2 raids with their eyes closed. And suggesting that players do not have tier 2 on farm yet after FIFTEEN months can only mean that Avery is underestimating the playerbase to a hypocritical degree.

Seriously, pugs for the endgame raid content means that the game really needs more content and, possibly, more difficult bosses. And when sieges are broken (and they are), players can only do PvE raids anyway.

You do realise your kinda spinning things a bit mate. I'd also like to point out dozens and dozens of people with given feedback NOT to make bosses harder. Heck there are several large threads on the test server forums about it.

When I state about the majority of players at this point in time are under 80 I have two things with this. AoC.yg.com and what the game director tells us. What do you have? an over blown, over proportioned statement suggesting that everyone is raiding on 5 mins of chat. Nice. I am seeing Craig tell us this, and I believe the guy, and we have some metrics from the database site.

Sorry but everything from in game time, to forums, to pm's, to hardcore different mechanic players (PVP and Raiders) points to that raiding is not as popular as you seem to make it own to be. I am in a position where there is a lot of contact with the community and all I am saying is no everyone does not have Tier 2 on farm status I am sharing that truthfully from experience that is all.

Do I see people asking for raids / PUGs. Yep it is popular because maybe it can be fun?

Do you have Tier 2 fully fleshed out?

I know I don't :)

Part of that is from the borked structure of raids in the past.

Look the OP is a raider, he loves raids, wants to see more raid content, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think that raiders should be well supported in functioning and challenging encounters where it is hard to get the goods. Some of them right now ARE to easy.

AoC is not Wow and is not WoW raids. That casual approach is there at the high end, and is becoming more popular.

I am confident that the average AoC player doesn't have hours to do a raid.

Oh really? What is there to do at endgame if not doing the exact same thing that you do in WoW (since AoC is a complete copy of it), only with much less content? You have raids and you have 3+ months of grinding pvp xp to get to level 5 and that's it. There are also sieges but since Funcom doesn't take that part of the game seriously, obviously players don't either. Sure, when Apocalypse comes, there will be lots to do in AoC, but until then there's BRC and mini games till your eyes pop out.

And Morrison telling us what the true state of the game is by informing us the majority of players are not even 80 yet? 'Cuz FC never lied to us before, right?

The yellow gremlin database shows that people prefer to grind pve epix more than grinding pvp levels, and that includes the best pvp guilds. That alone proves the fact that a pvp player won't find a suitable home in AoC at lvl 80, not for a long time (maybe in 1.6, but that isn't even on testlive yet).

Mind telling what this "casual" approach at endgame might be, or for that matter, at mid-game? Standing in Old Tarantia and spouting proverbial nonsense global (oh wait, they do that already). WoW has long ago found many ways to satiate this casual approach to endgame, especially with WotLK, but can't really see what AoC has done in those terms. Collecting social pets and vanity gear? A poor attempt to copy WoW, at best.

Originally posted by Krewel

Oh really? What is there to do at endgame if not doing the exact same thing that you do in WoW (since AoC is a complete copy of it), only with much less content? You have raids and you have 3+ months of grinding pvp xp to get to level 5 and that's it. There are also sieges but since Funcom doesn't take that part of the game seriously, obviously players don't either. Sure, when Apocalypse comes, there will be lots to do in AoC, but until then there's BRC and mini games till your eyes pop out.

And Morrison telling us what the true state of the game is by informing us the majority of players are not even 80 yet? 'Cuz FC never lied to us before, right?

The yellow gremlin database shows that people prefer to grind pve epix more than grinding pvp levels, and that includes the best pvp guilds. That alone proves the fact that a pvp player won't find a suitable home in AoC at lvl 80, not for a long time (maybe in 1.6, but that isn't even on testlive yet).

Mind telling what this "casual" approach at endgame might be, or for that matter, at mid-game? Standing in Old Tarantia and spouting proverbial nonsense global (oh wait, they do that already). WoW has long ago found many ways to satiate this casual approach to endgame, especially with WotLK, but can't really see what AoC has done in those terms. Collecting social pets and vanity gear? A poor attempt to copy WoW, at best.

wow, the truth comes out in this post.

looks like wow invented the raid, pvp, and sieges folks...guess the mini pvp game too

and the casual approach to endgame is doing everything you do, just not 10 hours a day seven days a week.

i dont get you logic in seeing proof theres no sutable home for a lv 80 pvper in aoc...that my friend is the most insane thing youve said yet. 

Originally posted by crunchyblack

Originally posted by Krewel

Oh really? What is there to do at endgame if not doing the exact same thing that you do in WoW (since AoC is a complete copy of it), only with much less content? You have raids and you have 3+ months of grinding pvp xp to get to level 5 and that's it. There are also sieges but since Funcom doesn't take that part of the game seriously, obviously players don't either. Sure, when Apocalypse comes, there will be lots to do in AoC, but until then there's BRC and mini games till your eyes pop out.

And Morrison telling us what the true state of the game is by informing us the majority of players are not even 80 yet? 'Cuz FC never lied to us before, right?

The yellow gremlin database shows that people prefer to grind pve epix more than grinding pvp levels, and that includes the best pvp guilds. That alone proves the fact that a pvp player won't find a suitable home in AoC at lvl 80, not for a long time (maybe in 1.6, but that isn't even on testlive yet).

Mind telling what this "casual" approach at endgame might be, or for that matter, at mid-game? Standing in Old Tarantia and spouting proverbial nonsense global (oh wait, they do that already). WoW has long ago found many ways to satiate this casual approach to endgame, especially with WotLK, but can't really see what AoC has done in those terms. Collecting social pets and vanity gear? A poor attempt to copy WoW, at best.

 

wow, the truth comes out in this post.

looks like wow invented the raid, pvp, and sieges folks...guess the mini pvp game too

and the casual approach to endgame is doing everything you do, just not 10 hours a day seven days a week.

i dont get you logic in seeing proof theres no sutable home for a lv 80 pvper in aoc...that my friend is the most insane thing youve said yet. 

 

 

This game very  much follows the wow  progression of leveing, solo to the lvl x and do instance then repeat to cap.  the second the PVP has been crap in aoc and always has been since it was never full tested in beta as they told to go F off about anything about PVP hence why i havent  touch that gameplay spear of  AOC (last i hear  sieges still cuase  massive  red line and zone crashs)

Originally posted by crunchyblack

Originally posted by Krewel

Oh really? What is there to do at endgame if not doing the exact same thing that you do in WoW (since AoC is a complete copy of it), only with much less content? You have raids and you have 3+ months of grinding pvp xp to get to level 5 and that's it. There are also sieges but since Funcom doesn't take that part of the game seriously, obviously players don't either. Sure, when Apocalypse comes, there will be lots to do in AoC, but until then there's BRC and mini games till your eyes pop out.

And Morrison telling us what the true state of the game is by informing us the majority of players are not even 80 yet? 'Cuz FC never lied to us before, right?

The yellow gremlin database shows that people prefer to grind pve epix more than grinding pvp levels, and that includes the best pvp guilds. That alone proves the fact that a pvp player won't find a suitable home in AoC at lvl 80, not for a long time (maybe in 1.6, but that isn't even on testlive yet).

Mind telling what this "casual" approach at endgame might be, or for that matter, at mid-game? Standing in Old Tarantia and spouting proverbial nonsense global (oh wait, they do that already). WoW has long ago found many ways to satiate this casual approach to endgame, especially with WotLK, but can't really see what AoC has done in those terms. Collecting social pets and vanity gear? A poor attempt to copy WoW, at best.

 

wow, the truth comes out in this post.

looks like wow invented the raid, pvp, and sieges folks...guess the mini pvp game too

and the casual approach to endgame is doing everything you do, just not 10 hours a day seven days a week.

i dont get you logic in seeing proof theres no sutable home for a lv 80 pvper in aoc...that my friend is the most insane thing youve said yet. 

 

 

You don't have to be Sherlock to see AoC follows the exact same vertical line of progression as does WoW and offers almost no alternative to it. No, WoW did not invent raids, pvp and other things, I have never stated it so, but the problem is WoW has been offering constant influx of raids and pvp stuff for the last 4 years and AoC does almost nothing to actually offer some sort of an alternative to a player seeking new challenges. You have tier 1, tier 2, soon (one year?) there will be tier 3, etc. You have pvp levels, now there are only 5, soon there will be 10 of them. I mean, is there truly a difference?

There is no suitable place for a pvper in AoC (right now and for the last 15 months) because there is a lame system inside it called PvP XP, which means grinding players at graveyard for 3+ months in order to reach pvp level 5 for one set of pvp gear for your class. Vanilla WoW had that with the ranking system where players had to stay online for 6hr per day, ganking each other's asses until someone reached grand marshal or warlord and got the best stuff possible. In AoC you only have a couple of mini games to gain pvp xp, otherwise it's ganking in Kheshatta or Commons District.

For a game that boasted to become the next best thing in guild vs guild pvp it sure offers very little, especially considering the fact that sieges are after 15 months not only completely broken, but also not worthy to bother about them in the long run. Ironically, WoW offers much more, which tells you a lot. Remember that promise about 1500 sets of armor in the game? Well, there is only ONE set of pvp gear in the game right now. And guess what? It does not even have set bonuses, so why is it a set in the first place?

Tier 3 raids were just confirmed to be included in the next update cycle (1.06) in the july version of the GD letter. Personally it suits me just right as our guild still have our hands full in Tier 2.