Is it me or do those world graphics and characters models other then a close up of you look out of focus. Do you have your graphic setting on low? No AA or AF?  Is it the conversion to JPG? The way they look in those screenshots I'm not impressed at all.

Originally posted by Thaenei

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by popinjay

Nice review.

 

I don't see not being able to PvP as a gamebreaker at all before 20. I'm usually figuring out my characters the first few levels anyways and coming up with beginning tactics against static mobs. Also, you don't have even half of the total skills you will be using for endgame PvP at level 10 or whatever so that's pretty stupid for someone to say it's a "gamebreaker".

 

 

Anyone playing Warhammer for the first two tiers (from level 1-20) will tell you that game is extremely fun. Then those same people will tell you all the PvP you do in the last two tiers (from 21-40) is like sleepwalking. Boring, slow, buggy, crashing, no enemies, etc etc etc etc... with no relief in sight from that time onward until you quit your subscription.

 

I'd rather have a game that started out without PvP, but kicked ass in the end where everyone will eventually be spending ALL of their time in the game anyways fighting loads of other people, with ALL their PvP skills available.

 

 

 

I would suggest anyone wanting to PvP "from day at level 1" stick with that piece of crap WAR. AION doesn't really need your type of gaming skills and whining. There are already over 4 million people playing AION, so you, your guild, your grandma or anyone else who don't like it don't have to play it.

 

 

You also don't have to log on here to tell us that either because we won't be heartbroken, lol. It's not like AION is going to crash or something in six months because it won't have your $15/month or the other 5 people still left in your old WAR guild. You and the other 150k people in Warhammer can have fun rerolling alts constantly down there.

 

 

Except now... you have to do it on less servers. WAR just shut down MORE servers this past week. AGAIN. (what are they down to now? Seven?)

 

 

How's that for day 1, level 1 PvP games?

 

Ok, how the feck is being able to pvp from level 1 in ANY WAY connected to the failure at higher tiers in WAR??!!?

You just said that "Anyone playing Warhammer for the first two tiers (from level 1-20) will tell you that game is extremely fun." So?!?!?! Wtf?! Why the heck shouldn't Aion be "extremely fun at lower levels" as well instead of this collosal farty PvE bore that you have to grimly fight your way through?!

Are you dumb or someting? Am I missing something here? Or are you?

As a PvPvE mmo Aion is an extremely boring, linear one and is a total fail at lower levels. Utter fail because it's not what it says on the box. THERE IS NO PVP AT LOWER LEVELS. IN A PVP GAME. NONE. You grind giant clams ffs so you can maybe, sometime in the future, maybe, if you grind enough clams do the fecking thing that you bought the game for. How the HELL can be this considered a good thing?!?!?

I bought the damn CE preorder for Aion because the endgame looks a fantastic improvement over the failure that is WAR's endgame. However, the leveling process is a total failure as far as I'm concerned. THERE IS NO PVP IN THE LOWER LEVELS. Wtf?!! If that is normal to you guys in a game that is supposed to be PvP centred then I am really left speechless.  What the hell? No PvP in a PvP game? WHAT?

Even WoW, the king of PvE, has BGs from level 10 and you'll be able to level through them... It is simply ridiculous that the new PvPvE game has NO option of leveling through PvP, none whatsoever. And what is even more ridiculous are the fanbois defending this so blatantly obvious flaw in the design.

This is the first time in my mmo career that I seriously considered renting leveling services. IT IS STUPID, JUST PLAIN STUPID. 

 

a quick look at the most famous asian grinder "lineage 2"  from the same company (i think there is a trial period available and the client for downbload) could have spared you this "expierience".

as i had the "pleasure" to try out lineage 2 there is not much i expect from ncsoft :)

 

 

If you hated Lineage 2, you were just too carebear to compete, on any level, in a hardcore game. Lineage 2 was good because it wasn't easy. It weeded out all the idiots and people who want a free ride, such as yourself, in the begining... which was a saving grace for Lineage 2.

If you take a world of idiots in a PvP game, what do you get? You get all the people who realize they're just terrible, and join together and the pvp is uninteresting. In Lineage 2, you get people who actually enjoy the hardcore pvp, and participate and are good - sometimes 150+ vs 150+ people at castle sieges... which is much better pvp than any game that I've seen. So what if there IS a grind (which they have eliminated most of recently, and even before that over the past few years it's gotten a lot easier, so stop hating on a game without having your facts), it just makes the risk/reward for pvping that much more sweet.

On a side note: there is, infact, pvp pre-20. Sure, it's like playing on a WoW PvE server pre-20, having to consent to duels or consent to being tossed into a BG, but that's why this game is so great. You aren't thrust into a world where high levels can just stand around and gank you and kill you, you actually have time to learn your skills, get your feel for the game, and when you actually have a chance of surviving against people in pvp you venture into the Abyss. Sure, you can still get ganked by lvl 50's at lvl 20, but at least you have people AROUND you that are also lvl 50's, and will assist you.

If you haven't played either game, you really have no business bashing it (or talking it up for that matter), and it really sickens me to see people relate this game to any other game on the market. It's not just some copy of another game in any way. Stop hating on something because you lack the skill to play it. At least, that's what all nerds care about right? Being skilled in their MMO of choice and making virtual worlds bow before their might? I know I sure do :)

Originally posted by Zeppelin4

Is it me or do those world graphics and characters models other then a close up of you look out of focus. Do you have your graphic setting on low? No AA or AF?  Is it the conversion to JPG? The way they look in those screenshots I'm not impressed at all.

Probably the conversion to jpg, and perhaps the site resized the picture automatically and screwed it a bit. Just take a look at the chat box, and it's pretty obvious...

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

Hey I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking you, because I wasn't. It was in general, the mini-rant was directed to the group of people who keep on trashing one part of the game whilst overlooking everything else. They take everything for granted and overlook all the positives thinking along the lines of "yea well, that's the minimum they had to do", which is true, however when compared to other recent games, it's relatively extremely good. You're actually closer to a fanboi than anything in my eyes lol.
I actually agree that the first 20levels are lacking as I said, and adding some sort of PvP goes a long way in rendering the early levels fun.

---

Not sure why you felt you had to apologize to him. He's actually the one who flames others. It was civil until he went on a rant for some reason about PvP.

I'm sorry AION wasn't made to his liking, but they didn't make it for him personally. If Koreans know anything, they know PvP and I'm sure they weighed pros and cons about Pvp being available at level 1. They thought it was stupid apparently (as do I) because at levels 1-20, you don't even have much of a character. You are going through tons of gear, acquiring new skills/spells every other level and constantly developing new tactics. They'd rather allow gamers to play the game than worry about getting ganked at level 8.

Only some morons who like getting their rocks off that way are all upset that they as a level 11 guy can't camp on level 5s. Please. AION is building towards the endgame conflicts which makes perfect sense. Pvp at hour 1 is stupid in any game (other than Guild Wars where you can have basically almost all your skills from the start by bypassing all the leveling up).

If people want to gank, go play Darkfall, lol. Or go fall asleep in Warhammer, TCoS, or Shadowbane (whoops). AION has a different focus and so far, just about everyone who plays it isn't crying about "no PvP at level 1, boohoo". Warhammer as a game is a good example of people putting the cart before the horse and by the end of the year, it will probably be down to 4 servers or dead. I suggest the crybabies go play around with elves and dorfs while they still can instead of ranting here about trivial things in AION.

So, I managed to take my 1 gig file and smack it down to a smaller size :3

I lost about 500% screen size so right now I'm working on another format and conversion method that may hopefully get you a nice sized screen and quality image.

But here is a mini version of the fun:

http://www.box.net/shared/scp0vcdznc

---

Originally posted by gakule

On a side note: there is, infact, pvp pre-20. Sure, it's like playing on a WoW PvE server pre-20, having to consent to duels or consent to being tossed into a BG, but that's why this game is so great. You aren't thrust into a world where high levels can just stand around and gank you and kill you, you actually have time to learn your skills, get your feel for the game, and when you actually have a chance of surviving against people in pvp you venture into the Abyss. Sure, you can still get ganked by lvl 50's at lvl 20, but at least you have people AROUND you that are also lvl 50's, and will assist you.

---

Ty for posting some truth. We can only hope those that are into this (someone in this thread) who likes to gank and use "Level 1 pvp" as an excuse can only find a game they are truly happy with.

I suggest they go try Warhammer. They are looking for a few good "uber leet madz skillz" players who can pvp from level 1 all the way to level 40 and RR 80.

It seems they've lost most of their regulars to AION already, lol.

So after recieving a warning of "You have been playing for 5 hours, please take a break for your health" I decided I should quit for a while and come back here.

I found an area that let me quest solo safely, I had accidently ignored it. I have a new rule in Aion, don't skip Campaign Areas, do them in order. Trust me, it helps....ALOT.

Also I'd like to mention that money flows like water in this game. I have never dropped below 20k Kinah and I have yet to need to grind for Kinah. Also the exp given from quests is pretty heft :D

I also noticed you get a tiny tiny bit of experience everytime you use your gathering skill. So you die hard crafters don't have to worry, your mind numbing gathering will payoff.......slightly :P

There is also a nifty taxi program, and an-insta teleport program. Well more like a stewardess who straps you to a bid ethereal bird and a guy who teleports you......both cost relatively low amounts of Kinah.

Lets see.....hmmm.....Oh Yes! So far I have found that the things that drop off mobs are very good compared to quest drops. And I actually like this :D You wanna know why? Because in the real world, when some random guy saves my kitten in the tree, I don't give him my great grandpapy's Excalibur. I don't even give him anything, especially if that is his job :P

Oh and dieing, it hasn't been that bad so far, its a relatively low amount of Kinah to get your indebted experience back. Also I went on once and started grinding just to see if you can negate the exp with new stuff, nope, it just moves the indebted stuff up, like this:

------new-----||||||||||||indebted|||||||||||||||||

*grinds*

--------------------------new------||||||||||||indebted||||||||||||

Kinda cool, so if you can't afford to pay for it back now, you can later, and nothing is lost ^.^ Cause after you pay, it looks like this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

And well I'm gunna go shave and what-not then hop back on.

Sorry for the annoying reposts >.<

Okay, before I log back on here is a large, soundless version of that video.

http://www.box.net/shared/g294fduf6p

Originally posted by Mirrim

As a grandmother, I'd just like to say that Aion gets my seal of approval. ;P

Hi Granny! Not far behind ya! It is awesome!

*pout* I couldnt join in on the closed beta this weekend :-(   Amazon said that I needed to preorder at least 5 days before the beta event in order to receive a beta key for this weekend.  Hopefully ill be able to play next week or ill be really upset and preorder somewhere else.

It sounds like everyones really enjoying the game so far, I wanna see what all the commotion is about :lol:

The only thing I don't get about all the hate of no PvP 1-20 is that 1-20 takes, like, no time at all to do. I know that might not be a valid excuse but aside from that I just don't think characters are fleshed out enough at the lower levels. I mean lvl 1-10 PvP is just silly (really, it is) and lvl 10-19 I still don't think you have enough skills until 16/19 to make it interesting. I think that, sure, for us players who might get the hang of our class fast it would be kind of nice to have some lowbie PvP going on (even though again 1-10 wouldn't make sense at all, so we'd be talking about 10-19 here) but I just think it's better in the long run to let the normal players get used to how their character plays.

That being said idk how much they could really do 10-19. I mean I guess they could do rifts if they really wanted but I just don't know if it'd be worth it.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Electriceye

 

Hey I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking you, because I wasn't. It was in general, the mini-rant was directed to the group of people who keep on trashing one part of the game whilst overlooking everything else. They take everything for granted and overlook all the positives thinking along the lines of "yea well, that's the minimum they had to do", which is true, however when compared to other recent games, it's relatively extremely good. You're actually closer to a fanboi than anything in my eyes lol.
I actually agree that the first 20levels are lacking as I said, and adding some sort of PvP goes a long way in rendering the early levels fun.

---

 

Not sure why you felt you had to apologize to him. He's actually the one who flames others. It was civil until he went on a rant for some reason about PvP.

 

I'm sorry AION wasn't made to his liking, but they didn't make it for him personally. If Koreans know anything, they know PvP and I'm sure they weighed pros and cons about Pvp being available at level 1. They thought it was stupid apparently (as do I) because at levels 1-20, you don't even have much of a character. You are going through tons of gear, acquiring new skills/spells every other level and constantly developing new tactics. They'd rather allow gamers to play the game than worry about getting ganked at level 8.

 

 

Only some morons who like getting their rocks off that way are all upset that they as a level 11 guy can't camp on level 5s. Please. AION is building towards the endgame conflicts which makes perfect sense. Pvp at hour 1 is stupid in any game (other than Guild Wars where you can have basically almost all your skills from the start by bypassing all the leveling up).

 

 

If people want to gank, go play Darkfall, lol. Or go fall asleep in Warhammer, TCoS, or Shadowbane (whoops). AION has a different focus and so far, just about everyone who plays it isn't crying about "no PvP at level 1, boohoo". Warhammer as a game is a good example of people putting the cart before the horse and by the end of the year, it will probably be down to 4 servers or dead. I suggest the crybabies go play around with elves and dorfs while they still can instead of ranting here about trivial things in AION.

Well PvP is only one of the things they could add in the early levels to make things more interesting and add some variety to 1-20 game play.

Aion needs it, you should acknowledge that much at least, it needs some variety during those early levels as it's extremely linear, you basically follow the same path through the same zones to do the same quests. It's one of Aion's issues, minor for some, major for others and even gamebreaking for a few, especially altoholics.

It doesn't have to have PvP at the get-go, but maybe adding some sort of cool new dungeon at around lvl15. It would work wonders, or some taste of PvP at lvl10+, be it through instances or whatever, it doesn't have to be ganking. Some of WAR's scenarios were very fun, and I wouldn't mind if they added a couple for lvls10-20.Even though it won't be telling or extremely balanced, it would doubtlessly be fun and kill the boring routine of the early levels.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by gakule

 

On a side note: there is, infact, pvp pre-20. Sure, it's like playing on a WoW PvE server pre-20, having to consent to duels or consent to being tossed into a BG, but that's why this game is so great. You aren't thrust into a world where high levels can just stand around and gank you and kill you, you actually have time to learn your skills, get your feel for the game, and when you actually have a chance of surviving against people in pvp you venture into the Abyss. Sure, you can still get ganked by lvl 50's at lvl 20, but at least you have people AROUND you that are also lvl 50's, and will assist you.

---

 

Ty for posting some truth. We can only hope those that are into this (someone in this thread) who likes to gank and use "Level 1 pvp" as an excuse can only find a game they are truly happy with.

 

I suggest they go try Warhammer. They are looking for a few good "uber leet madz skillz" players who can pvp from level 1 all the way to level 40 and RR 80.

 

 

It seems they've lost most of their regulars to AION already, lol.

Lol, popinjay I think you completely missed the point of "pvp from level 1" both in concept and what you perceive the player who is attracted to that to be like.

Actually the "uber leet madz skills" players are bound to be more into Aion than WAR... Those are the PvP-ers who left WAR because it is too soft for them. In fact they are more at home with ladder systems and ganking that WoW's PvP, however limited it is otherwise, provides better for them.

I consider myself a typical WAR player at this day and age and I'm a casual friendly "carebear PvP". I enjoy my PvP more than anything else but not because I get to wtfpwn anybody or show off my madz skills. It is more akin to what you have in recreational sports - I don't play it to prove myself or give anybody any pain. I do it because it is fun - I play to win but not to hurt and in fact there is a very lively and friendly inter-faction forum activity on our server. The destros and orders have tremendous friendly respect for each other, just like what you'd have between two teams in a local recreational sport club.

I detest ganking and I'm a-priori agains death penalties because I feel they create unnecessary aggro and frustration for the players. The friendliness you get in WAR is second to none in mmos that I played so far - even your enemies are your pals and everybody in your faction is a buddy. I really hope Aion will be able to create such an atmosphere with inter-faction rivalry and all however I really fear this won't be the case precisely because the "uber leet mad skills" players want their "enemies" to "hurt" and their "leet skillz" (read gear)  to be "earned"... for whatever reason that I cannot comprehend. Yes, I'm a PvP carebear and pride myself of it - in some other day I'd probably be called a "sportsman".

Sounds like a good single player MMORPG but that seems to the norm for MMORPGs these days.

Originally posted by markoraos

Lol, popinjay I think you completely missed the point of "pvp from level 1" both in concept and what you perceive the player who is attracted to that to be like.

Actually the "uber leet madz skills" players are bound to be more into Aion than WAR... Those are the PvP-ers who left WAR because it is too soft for them. In fact they are more at home with ladder systems and ganking that WoW's PvP, however limited it is otherwise, provides better for them.

I consider myself a typical WAR player at this day and age and I'm a casual friendly "carebear PvP". I enjoy my PvP more than anything else but not because I get to wtfpwn anybody or show off my madz skills. It is more akin to what you have in recreational sports - I don't play it to prove myself or give anybody any pain. I do it because it is fun - I play to win but not to hurt and in fact there is a very lively and friendly inter-faction forum activity on our server. The destros and orders have tremendous friendly respect for each other, just like what you'd have between two teams in a local recreational sport club.

I detest ganking and I'm a-priori agains death penalties because I feel they create unnecessary aggro and frustration for the players. The friendliness you get in WAR is second to none in mmos that I played so far - even your enemies are your pals and everybody in your faction is a buddy. I really hope Aion will be able to create such an atmosphere with inter-faction rivalry and all however I really fear this won't be the case precisely because the "uber leet mad skills" players want their "enemies" to "hurt" and their "leet skillz" (read gear)  to be "earned"... for whatever reason that I cannot comprehend. Yes, I'm a PvP carebear and pride myself of it - in some other day I'd probably be called a "sportsman".

Well, the whole concept of Aion is build around RvR PvPvE. You might still enjoy those parts of Aion, but the dark side of open world PvP is not going to be for you. When you see a red player in this game, you should prepare yourself accordingly. They are most likely trying to kill you because it is beneficial to do so. It is RvR warfare. It is not going to be fair. They will use every advantage and deception in order to annihilate you.

You compete for relics, fortresses and so on. This is a dynamic PvP aspect that impacts the game world. If you are victorius, you get access to bonusses and special content as a reward. There really is very little room for non-competitive players in an environment like that because you are most likely going to be a hinderance.

You can keep using your Ad Hominems to "illustrate" your point, but the truth of the matter is that Aion is not aimed at the players of your type. The end game is designed for players who enjoy competition and get excitement from it. Not for those looking for a relative safety of consensual PvP, you prefer to call carebears.  I could go on and explain some general differences between mentality of Asian and Western players because this was designed for the Asian market, but you can google those differences. 

If you still did not get my point, just consider this, you do not have to play every game that comes to the market. I certainly won't. If the game is not fun, I will stop playing it. Just like I will do with Aion, if it is no longer entertaining.

rvr, pvpve, lol. thats so last decade, its almost as if daoc never existed. seriously though, if this game has nothing more to offer than upgraded graphics on a tired old game, i really cant see it going anywhere, in korea maybe. but.. elsewhere ?? doubtful.

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by markoraos

Lol, popinjay I think you completely missed the point of "pvp from level 1" both in concept and what you perceive the player who is attracted to that to be like.

Actually the "uber leet madz skills" players are bound to be more into Aion than WAR... Those are the PvP-ers who left WAR because it is too soft for them. In fact they are more at home with ladder systems and ganking that WoW's PvP, however limited it is otherwise, provides better for them.

I consider myself a typical WAR player at this day and age and I'm a casual friendly "carebear PvP". I enjoy my PvP more than anything else but not because I get to wtfpwn anybody or show off my madz skills. It is more akin to what you have in recreational sports - I don't play it to prove myself or give anybody any pain. I do it because it is fun - I play to win but not to hurt and in fact there is a very lively and friendly inter-faction forum activity on our server. The destros and orders have tremendous friendly respect for each other, just like what you'd have between two teams in a local recreational sport club.

I detest ganking and I'm a-priori agains death penalties because I feel they create unnecessary aggro and frustration for the players. The friendliness you get in WAR is second to none in mmos that I played so far - even your enemies are your pals and everybody in your faction is a buddy. I really hope Aion will be able to create such an atmosphere with inter-faction rivalry and all however I really fear this won't be the case precisely because the "uber leet mad skills" players want their "enemies" to "hurt" and their "leet skillz" (read gear)  to be "earned"... for whatever reason that I cannot comprehend. Yes, I'm a PvP carebear and pride myself of it - in some other day I'd probably be called a "sportsman".

Well, the whole concept of Aion is build around RvR PvPvE. You might still enjoy those parts of Aion, but the dark side of open world PvP is not going to be for you. When you see a red player in this game, you should prepare yourself accordingly. They are most likely trying to kill you because it is beneficial to do so. It is RvR warfare. It is not going to be fair. They will use every advantage and deception in order to annihilate you.

You compete for relics, fortresses and so on. This is a dynamic PvP aspect that impacts the game world. If you are victorius, you get access to bonusses and special content as a reward. There really is very little room for non-competitive players in an environment like that because you are most likely going to be a hinderance.

You can keep using your Ad Hominems to "illustrate" your point, but the truth of the matter is that Aion is not aimed at the players of your type. The end game is designed for players who enjoy competition and get excitement from it. Not for those looking for a relative safety of consensual PvP, you prefer to call carebears.  I could go on and explain some general differences between mentality of Asian and Western players because this was designed for the Asian market, but you can google those differences. 

If you still did not get my point, just consider this, you do not have to play every game that comes to the market. I certainly won't. If the game is not fun, I will stop playing it. Just like I will do with Aion, if it is no longer entertaining.

Oh I don't have anything at all against competition and all. And of course if I see a destro wandering around the RvR lake (or a PvE zone, ofc) I'm going to gank the bejezus out of him and he'll do likewise if he catches me unawares... and then we'll have a good laugh about it in the forums.

See the point? You don't have to hate your opponent - just like you're not out to "hurt" your neighbor when you go for a game of basketball or tennis or whatever. In WAR you do compete but you generally do not "hate" and that's what it managed to accomplish magnificently. In fact you tend to be much more harsh with your allies (though degrees of magnitude less than what is the norm in "friendly" PvE raiding games) because they ARE supposed to help you out so we can all win. You can't be really angry against your opponents because that's what they're supposed to do - try to stop you from winning. That's the kind of atmosphere I'd like to see in Aion.

Again, I have nothing against competition - in fact that's why I prefer PvP much more than PvE. Aion's concept and endgame seem very interesting and enjoyable - much better thought out than WAR's PvP endgame for certain - however there are some things about it that I don't like and which seem to push it towards the masochistic/sadistic "you have to WORK in order to PvP" and "PvP has to HURT in order to be enjoyable - you have to feel the HURT of your opponent and you have to FEAR being hurt" which I frankly find extremely childish and even disturbing. When I play Risk with my pals I don't feel the need to hurt them in any way and yet I do play to win, no holds barred and using all the dastardly tricks I can think of... and we all have a good laugh afterward - which is the whole point of the thing for me.

See the point? You don't have to hate your opponent - just like you're not out to "hurt" your neighbor when you go for a game of basketball or tennis or whatever. In WAR you do compete but you generally do not "hate" and that's what it managed to accomplish magnificently. In fact you tend to be much more harsh with your allies (though degrees of magnitude less than what is the norm in "friendly" PvE raiding games) because they ARE supposed to help you out so we can all win. You can't be really angry against your opponents because that's what they're supposed to do - try to stop you from winning. That's the kind of atmosphere I'd like to see in Aion.

I can see your point, but that is up to individual players. I have not played WAR enough to comment on your "friendly" environment. Because quite frankly the game was not for me.

Again, I have nothing against competition - in fact that's why I prefer PvP much more than PvE. Aion's concept and endgame seem very interesting and enjoyable - much better thought out than WAR's PvP endgame for certain - however there are some things about it that I don't like and which seem to push it towards the masochistic/sadistic "you have to WORK in order to PvP" and "PvP has to HURT in order to be enjoyable - you have to feel the HURT of your opponent and you have to FEAR being hurt" which I frankly find extremely childish and even disturbing. When I play Risk with my pals I don't feel the need to hurt them in any way and yet I do play to win, no holds barred and using all the dastardly tricks I can think of... and we all have a good laugh afterward - which is the whole point of the thing for me.

There should be risks and rewards. I do not like approach like WoW takes on PvP. Once you add a layer or risk to the game, people have to use more imaginative tactics to win because the risk taking is a part of the equation. Only part where I felt excitement is WoW*s PvP was with equally matched Arena moments and even then it was a lot less than I have felt in games like EVE, where your adrenaline truly start pouring in. Why? Because there is a risk involved, you have a chance of losing something of value.

Now, there is nothing wrong with your playstyle either. I just enjoy it a lot less. I strongly believe that risk and reward is what makes PvP exciting. If you remove either from the equation, it becomes rather meaningless.

Originally posted by thexrated

See the point? You don't have to hate your opponent - just like you're not out to "hurt" your neighbor when you go for a game of basketball or tennis or whatever. In WAR you do compete but you generally do not "hate" and that's what it managed to accomplish magnificently. In fact you tend to be much more harsh with your allies (though degrees of magnitude less than what is the norm in "friendly" PvE raiding games) because they ARE supposed to help you out so we can all win. You can't be really angry against your opponents because that's what they're supposed to do - try to stop you from winning. That's the kind of atmosphere I'd like to see in Aion.

I can see your point, but that is up to individual players. I have not played WAR enough to comment on your "friendly" environment. Because quite frankly the game was not for me.

Again, I have nothing against competition - in fact that's why I prefer PvP much more than PvE. Aion's concept and endgame seem very interesting and enjoyable - much better thought out than WAR's PvP endgame for certain - however there are some things about it that I don't like and which seem to push it towards the masochistic/sadistic "you have to WORK in order to PvP" and "PvP has to HURT in order to be enjoyable - you have to feel the HURT of your opponent and you have to FEAR being hurt" which I frankly find extremely childish and even disturbing. When I play Risk with my pals I don't feel the need to hurt them in any way and yet I do play to win, no holds barred and using all the dastardly tricks I can think of... and we all have a good laugh afterward - which is the whole point of the thing for me.

There should be risks and rewards. I do not like approach like WoW takes on PvP. Once you add a layer or risk to the game, people have to use more imaginative tactics to win because the risk taking is a part of the equation. Only part where I felt excitement is WoW*s PvP was with equally matched Arena moments and even then it was a lot less than I have felt in games like EVE, where your adrenaline truly start pouring in. Why? Because there is a risk involved, you have a chance of losing something of value.

Now, there is nothing wrong with your playstyle either. I just enjoy it a lot less. I strongly believe that risk and reward is what makes PvP exciting. If you remove either from the equation, it becomes rather meaningless.

 Risk and reward are fine by me. However the "hurt" is problematic. A very mild example is the death down time. If it's 30-60 seconds then it's fine by me because you have the risk of not being there where the rewards are, your team has a greater chance of loosing etc but you're still not waiting excessively. Longer down times turn into a punishment - because you're not playing the game, you are doing something boring, like running across the damn continent, while you are paying the game with your money and time in order to have fun.

The same thing goes with, for example, xp penalties for pvp death.. in a game that you can gain xp only through pve. Basically if you want to play pvp you get punished by having to do something you may not want to and that is pve.

You can have risk and rewards without actually going out of your way to actually punish players. I have no problem with my character being punished but what I object to is me, as a player, being punished by the game.

I hadn't payed any attention to Aion until a few days ago. But the mmo I was planning to play seems to have gone down a dark road.

But Aion has good vids, is already a success overseas and apart from the TR debacle, I've had good experiences with NCSoft. So I pre-ordered and got myself into the beta this weekend.

It's pretty much what I expected. Standard EQ style game, but for the first time since WOW, I'm playing an mmo that feels finished. No bugs, no lag, no gameplay issues. It's delightful.

I suspect I won't see anything other than 'standard fare' until later in the game - the pve is everything you're used to - but I'd happily recommend this game to anyone who has enjoyed EQ \ WOW style mmos.