Originally posted by Hydroblunt

 Try Anarchy Online.  Some classes are committed to tank/healer/dps but most can play multiple roles.

In World of Warcraft you have:

4 classes that can only DPS (Warlock Mage Rogue Hunter)

2 classes that can DPS, tank, or heal (Paladin Druid)

2 classes that can DPS or heal (Priest Shaman)

2 classes that can DPS or Tank (Warrior Death Knight)

And with talent specs and the dual talent spec feature... ummm... how much more do you want? 

*HINT* don't play a Warlock/Rogue/Mage/Hunter if you want to be able to fufill multiple roles.

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

 I hear alot of people saying they are tired with the old set up of "tank dps heal" that whole situation. Well i've been thinkin about it for a while. and honestly I can't think of any other way to do it. So would some of you like to tell me what you had in mind?

(Keeping in mind it has to work in a grouping enviroment)

I like the group roles, tank, dps, heal, is usually fun when nicely done but, if you dont want this old set up you go for skill based characters. A good example is Ultima online, or little more modern Oblivion. This kind of systems are usually hard to balance, you need to avoid people being able of maxing all so it's still fun but dificult.

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

 I hear alot of people saying they are tired with the old set up of "tank dps heal" that whole situation. Well i've been thinkin about it for a while. and honestly I can't think of any other way to do it. So would some of you like to tell me what you had in mind?

(Keeping in mind it has to work in a grouping enviroment)

Man to man marking like in sport.

Most classes will have a way of locking one mob - maybe melee, maybe a mez or root, maybe a pet. CC type skills will be one mob at a time i.e they're not one-off spells they're continuous, using mana per turn. So examples:

examples:

3 warriors, healer, nuker vs 3 melee mobs = 3 melee players charge in and hold one mob each, healer heals, nuker nukes, drop one at a time, no problem.

or - warrior, ranger, healer, enchanter vs 3 melee mobs = warrior and ranger charge in and hold two mobs, warrior will eventually solo kill mob, ranger can hold mob for a while but will lose eventually because of weaker armour, enchanter mezzes 3rd mob and goes to help warrior kill his target and the healer keeps the ranger alive, then the warrior/chanter come back to kill ranger's mob, then lastly all get the mezzed one.

or - if the healer is a heavy armour type maybe it's better for warrior, healer and chanter to lock a mob each while the ranger shoots arrows - kills the warrior's one first while the healer keeps healing himself.

or - maybe 4 nukers vs 3 melee mobs, maybe nukers are one of the few classes with no special "lock" ability apart from just meleeing, which they suck at - all they can do it get beat up. However maybe they have a continuous shield spell for melee which takes mana each turn plus more for all the damage it has to soak up - so in melee against similar level mobs they're in trouble as their shield spell they have little spare mana left for offensive spells however if they just defend and maintain their shield they can survive a while - so tactics for them might be three nukers charge in with their shield spells active and lock a mob each in melee - 4th nuker nukes. Maybe win, maybe not.

There's endless possibilities of different tactics depending on group make-up which would hopefully reduce the holy trinity effect in games as the holy trinity effect greatly handicaps grouping imo, especially at higher levels. Obviously it would be even better  if the mob group AI worked the same way with their rogue stealthing behind your chanter breaking the mez he put on their chanter who immediately mezzes your healer.

Aggro would have to be more proximity based rather than damage/healing (which I think is more realistic anyway) and both players and mobs need the equivalent of a taunt type effect which can physically lock a player/npc and force them to focus on them. So a mob warrior can charge you and lock you in the same way in games now a warrior char can force mobs to focus on them.

I don't know much about American football but from what I've seen it would be a bit like that with the melee classes (and pet classes) being like the blockers and the support classes being like  the quarterbacks. Who the blockers and quarterbacks were would depending on the makeup of the group.

one thing I do like about the updated AI, and smarter mobs/boss's is that it would take care of 2 things. 1st being all the guides online. I don't use em, and i'm not a fan of them. 2nd would be it would make content way more "replayable"...in WoW once you've done a dungon/raid once......NOTHING EVER changes!.

Originally posted by Dewm

 

one thing I do like about the updated AI, and smarter mobs/boss's is that it would take care of 2 things. 1st being all the guides online. I don't use em, and i'm not a fan of them. 2nd would be it would make content way more "replayable"...in WoW once you've done a dungon/raid once......NOTHING EVER changes!.

Not to get nitpicky, but in just about every game ever created, nothing ever really changes when it comes to a boss or dungeon.  HL2 is basically the same every time.  God of War is the same.  Mario was the same.  Sonic was the same.  Final Fantasy was always the same.  Maybe in RTS games things change a little, but not really.   Its still the same map and the AI reacts in basically the same way.  Even in open world games like Stalker or Fallout3, the only difference is where the enemies are coming from.  The strategy is still the same.  The base layouts and world is the same.  So I don't get your beef?  You expect a dungeon or boss to be completely different every time?  Thats a bit unrealistic, right?   Thats what PvP is for.  You never really know what a person is going to do.  If its AI, its just AI, and it has to be programmed to be stupid enough for you to win.  Otherwise, whats the point in playing.  FIghting against a boss that just whips out some random ability that one shots everyone whenever it feels like it is not FUN or challenging.  Its just cheap.  Cheap AI is the WORST kind of AI.  Anyone coming from the the 16-bit days knows what cheap bosses and deaths are about=) 

The onyl way for things to be so different is randomly generated "stuff", but you can keep that crap.  Random content ALWAYS sucks compared to scripted content and you can still see the patterns hidden in whats supposed to be random;)

By the way, heroic versions of dungeons in WOW are NOT exactly the same as the normal versions...just for clarification=)

Originally posted by Josher

Not to get nitpicky, but in just about every game ever created, nothing ever really changes when it comes to a boss or dungeon.  HL2 is basically the same every time.  God of War is the same.  Mario was the same.  Sonic was the same.  Final Fantasy was always the same.  Maybe in RTS games things change a little, but not really.   Its still the same map and the AI reacts in basically the same way.  Even in open world games like Stalker or Fallout3, the only difference is where the enemies are coming from.  The strategy is still the same.  The base layouts and world is the same.  So I don't get your beef?  You expect a dungeon or boss to be completely different every time?  Thats a bit unrealistic, right?   Thats what PvP is for.  You never really know what a person is going to do.  If its AI, its just AI, and it has to be programmed to be stupid enough for you to win.  Otherwise, whats the point in playing.  FIghting against a boss that just whips out some random ability that one shots everyone whenever it feels like it is not FUN or challenging.  Its just cheap.  Cheap AI is the WORST kind of AI.  Anyone coming from the the 16-bit days knows what cheap bosses and deaths are about=) 

The onyl way for things to be so different is randomly generated "stuff", but you can keep that crap.  Random content ALWAYS sucks compared to scripted content and you can still see the patterns hidden in whats supposed to be random;)

By the way, heroic versions of dungeons in WOW are NOT exactly the same as the normal versions...just for clarification=)

Sure, you can only program in so many random events, but that doesn't mean it's not better than only having one. Boss spawn locations is one. Trash mob spawn/ambushes  like City of Heroes is another one.

You can make AI support,attack, defensive in nature and give them multiple abilities as well. That can add to the randomness of an encounter if you have multiple mobs.

What takes away from encounters the most is the traditional tank,healer,dps roles.    Taunt removes any randomness of attacks by the mobs. AE crowd control removes any randomness. 

AE damage takes away from much of the randomness when coupled with taunts and ae cc .

Timed encounters can be a good idea. Having multiple scenarios where a boss or army can move/perform any one of four actions based on a random role and depending on that action the group must act accordingly to beat that boss/army. Combine that concept with a timer and lack of taunt/ae's/ cc   and I think you could have more exciting A.I.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Dewm

 

one thing I do like about the updated AI, and smarter mobs/boss's is that it would take care of 2 things. 1st being all the guides online. I don't use em, and i'm not a fan of them. 2nd would be it would make content way more "replayable"...in WoW once you've done a dungon/raid once......NOTHING EVER changes!.

 

Not to get nitpicky, but in just about every game ever created, nothing ever really changes when it comes to a boss or dungeon.  HL2 is basically the same every time.  God of War is the same.  Mario was the same.  Sonic was the same.  Final Fantasy was always the same.  Maybe in RTS games things change a little, but not really.   Its still the same map and the AI reacts in basically the same way.  Even in open world games like Stalker or Fallout3, the only difference is where the enemies are coming from.  The strategy is still the same.  The base layouts and world is the same.  So I don't get your beef?  You expect a dungeon or boss to be completely different every time?  Thats a bit unrealistic, right?   Thats what PvP is for.  You never really know what a person is going to do.  If its AI, its just AI, and it has to be programmed to be stupid enough for you to win.  Otherwise, whats the point in playing.  FIghting against a boss that just whips out some random ability that one shots everyone whenever it feels like it is not FUN or challenging.  Its just cheap.  Cheap AI is the WORST kind of AI.  Anyone coming from the the 16-bit days knows what cheap bosses and deaths are about=) 

The onyl way for things to be so different is randomly generated "stuff", but you can keep that crap.  Random content ALWAYS sucks compared to scripted content and you can still see the patterns hidden in whats supposed to be random;)

By the way, heroic versions of dungeons in WOW are NOT exactly the same as the normal versions...just for clarification=)

Well first off I wasn't saying that we had that updated AI now. I was saying IF we could get it, things would change. Second. some game do have better AI (not a MMO) but look at the AI in halo3 compaired to halo....much smarter.

And I wasn't asking for some boss to have "random" abilitys. Give him the same abilities. Ever notice in WoW that all the boss's skills are on a timer? "Oh no we have 10 seconds before he AOE's again" well imagine if it wasn't on a timer....he just did it when A. he had enough mana B. he was low on health and it was a last ditch defence C. when the party was at there weakest.

That would change things up a big.

Originally posted by Dewm

Well first off I wasn't saying that we had that updated AI now. I was saying IF we could get it, things would change. Second. some game do have better AI (not a MMO) but look at the AI in halo3 compaired to halo....much smarter.

And I wasn't asking for some boss to have "random" abilitys. Give him the same abilities. Ever notice in WoW that all the boss's skills are on a timer? "Oh no we have 10 seconds before he AOE's again" well imagine if it wasn't on a timer....he just did it when A. he had enough mana B. he was low on health and it was a last ditch defence C. when the party was at there weakest.

That would change things up a big.

Bosses would man handle people , hehe=)   The anwser is simple though.  If people didn't use mods that "HELPED" them beat the bosses and didn't follow step by step FAQs, but instead figured out the strategies all on their own, everything would be a lot more difficult.  Beleive me, I'd like AI to get better, but sometimes you have to watch what you wish for.   People want games to get harder, yet when they do, its really amazing the hoops they'll jump through and tools they'll use to make them easier.  They say one thing and do the complete opposite.  Funny right?

Yes, Halo3 had better AI than Halo, but even Halo had better AI then almost every FPS out there at the time.

As long as you stick to the basis of aggro and damage absorbsion and healing you can't do anything but the Tank, DPS and Healer set up.  The only other thing you could do is make everyone a hybrid but come one that is boring, I mean would anyone want to play a game where every one can do anything at any given time?

But if you think about changing the core gameplay, where damage avoidance is key, through taking cover or blocking and dodging however you want to do it and changed the way mobs work, ie not aggro based but more intelligent, you already make the tactic moot.  That isn't to say defensive characters or healers are now moot too, they can still exist but they would play different roles, just look at other games like TF2, they have a variety of roles to play but also do not do the tank, DPS, healer thing, consequently they are also more twitch based games, which I think you have to move toward to get away from the typical RPG team balance.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

As long as you stick to the basis of aggro and damage absorbsion and healing you can't do anything but the Tank, DPS and Healer set up.  The only other thing you could do is make everyone a hybrid but come one that is boring, I mean would anyone want to play a game where every one can do anything at any given time?

But if you think about changing the core gameplay, where damage avoidance is key, through taking cover or blocking and dodging however you want to do it and changed the way mobs work, ie not aggro based but more intelligent, you already make the tactic moot.  That isn't to say defensive characters or healers are now moot too, they can still exist but they would play different roles, just look at other games like TF2, they have a variety of roles to play but also do not do the tank, DPS, healer thing, consequently they are also more twitch based games, which I think you have to move toward to get away from the typical RPG team balance.

In a game that is skill based who says anyone can do anything at any given time?  Developers would still  need to tailor the characters to not be able to spec all skills. You can also add feats like in D&D such as traps, acrobatics, etc. 

This would allow for a larger puzzle element to encounters, like  hey we need someone who can pick a lock,, or dude, can you jump up there and get that lever??

Getting rid of traditional tank/healer/dps roles and taunting ae mechanics is something developers and financiers are just not willing to do rightnow because it will take time, effort, and risk.

Originally posted by johnspartan

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

 Try Anarchy Online.  Some classes are committed to tank/healer/dps but most can play multiple roles.

 

In World of Warcraft you have:

4 classes that can only DPS (Warlock Mage Rogue Hunter)

2 classes that can DPS, tank, or heal (Paladin Druid)

2 classes that can DPS or heal (Priest Shaman)

2 classes that can DPS or Tank (Warrior Death Knight)

And with talent specs and the dual talent spec feature... ummm... how much more do you want? 

*HINT* don't play a Warlock/Rogue/Mage/Hunter if you want to be able to fufill multiple roles.

No, you don't get it.  Try the game, it's exponentially deeper than WoW ever was or ever will be.  You're tied to your spec in WoW.  In Anarchy Online, even before the perk system (aka specs), most of the classes could fill in roles that are either tank, healer, dps, hybrid, utility/support or CC.  Most groups did not have a pure tank & pure healer, which always requires a certain specialization and certain classes(es).  As opposed to WoW and most MMOs, where no matter the class, you need a primary tank & primary healer. It truly is a game of skill instead of class.

The reality is that most of the playerbase wants the basic linear tank/heal/dps classes and group compositions.  They don't want to think too much.  The people that do not, well your choices are limited but if Anarchy Online is ever revamped, I would definitely suggest it.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

As long as you stick to the basis of aggro and damage absorbsion and healing you can't do anything but the Tank, DPS and Healer set up.  The only other thing you could do is make everyone a hybrid but come one that is boring, I mean would anyone want to play a game where every one can do anything at any given time?

But if you think about changing the core gameplay, where damage avoidance is key, through taking cover or blocking and dodging however you want to do it and changed the way mobs work, ie not aggro based but more intelligent, you already make the tactic moot.  That isn't to say defensive characters or healers are now moot too, they can still exist but they would play different roles, just look at other games like TF2, they have a variety of roles to play but also do not do the tank, DPS, healer thing, consequently they are also more twitch based games, which I think you have to move toward to get away from the typical RPG team balance.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I hate Tank, healer, DPS.

People standing in one stop hitting of few buttons over and over. A fully ranged gun based RPG is something I would love to see. Mass Effect, basically.

The biggest difference, as you said is damage absorption. How many people in a real fight would want to take damage? If someone is shooting at you, you move or shoot them first.

I would rather see classes that are about different ways of doing damage: sniper, explosives, big guns, crown control, debuffs, traps. And to have little or no healing at all. So no one takes argo. Everyone tries to avoid damage and everyone dishes it out.

Personally I am not tired of the tank/heal/cc combination.  I enjoy it quite well when it's implemented properly.

It works, and it's simple enough for anyone to do it -- yet complex enough that only few master it.

Reading the rest of the ideas on the thread.. well... Splitting up classes with abilities one class should have to others is even more of a disaster.  No one can say with a straight face that EQ2's 20+ classes work properly.  You should not have to have 3 different types of healer in one group to be 'one complete' healer. 

Skills such as AA or skill trees are a false choice.  99.9% always selects the 'best' skill tree, so there really is no dynamic or player chosen route.  You're either spec one way, or self gimp yourself -- even to the point of being excluded from raids/groups.  Hence class balance which relies entirely on those "best" speced characters, and you have your default role defined already by the abilitys and not the player.

Whats needed is a revival to go back to the basics and improving on the world around them.  That lack of focus is one of the main reasons I have left MMO'ing indefinately.  I do not find WoW, nor EQ2 an improvement from launch +2 exp EQ.  I consider both stagnant and done by EQ 4 years prior, and in some cases a step backwards.

 I am tired of the DPS mentality, in which consist of spaming buttons to gain another 10 DPS to the parse have taken over games.  I speak specifically of EQ2 where all that matters is DPS, DPS, and more DPS.  Gone are the days of strategy, planning, and reliying on player skill.  Gone are the days of community being built by chatting with each other, as they are to busy spamming their numerous skills or spells.   Just DPS the mob down, and if you can't drop it, go get more DPS or spam harder. 

DPS is what killed the genre for me.  It's all about how much damage I can contribute instead of all the other skills I've learned through the years.

There are other ideas that can revitalize the genre totally non class related. 

How about a mix of static and non-static randomly generated zones and dungeons, player built towns, player invented skills/spells, etc.  Surely technology exists in which dungeons can be randomly generated and discovered only breifly from a quest for a group or raiders, that are mostly unique and have random events placed through -- so no event is ever entirely the same.  Couple that with casters researching long lost spell and fragments found during dungeon crawls and placed in a town library that the effects are defined by the player that discovers it, and is named after them.  Towns that are created and populated or even destroyed by the player population.  A mmo in which even simple actions such as a single dungeon crawl impacts the your city and thus the world.

Imagine a player based city in which a dungeon crawl results in rescuing an NPC along the way, who is so grateful he'll return to your town as a merchant or quest giver.. pointing other groups in the direction of another undiscovered location rumor he heard of or offering a unique city item, thus increasing exploration in a rewarding way.  Or that same person you rescued is actually the dungeon boss sending you on quests that increase his/her power, and when the time is right calls his minions to destroy your city thus prompting an immediate raid to rescue the city against him and his npc's.

A dynamic world that is always different from one day to the next, and certainly not the same on other servers.

Reinventing the wheel does nothing.  If it's not broken, don't fix it.  However creating a new wheel can result in unlimited potential.  MMO's are attempting to reinvent the same wheel with classes, and havn't created a new wheel in years.  It's time to focus on a dynamic world, and not a dynamic class for those that want to be uber tank/healer/dps all rolled into one.

Originally posted by Gilanthas

Personally I am not tired of the tank/heal/cc combination.  I enjoy it quite well when it's implemented properly.

It works, and it's simple enough for anyone to do it -- yet complex enough that only few master it.

Reading the rest of the ideas on the thread.. well... Splitting up classes with abilities one class should have to others is even more of a disaster.  No one can say with a straight face that EQ2's 20+ classes work properly.  You should not have to have 3 different types of healer in one group to be 'one complete' healer. 

Skills such as AA or skill trees are a false choice.  99.9% always selects the 'best' skill tree, so there really is no dynamic or player chosen route.  You're either spec one way, or self gimp yourself -- even to the point of being excluded from raids/groups.  Hence class balance which relies entirely on those "best" speced characters, and you have your default role defined already by the abilitys and not the player.

Whats needed is a revival to go back to the basics and improving on the world around them.  That lack of focus is one of the main reasons I have left MMO'ing indefinately.  I do not find WoW, nor EQ2 an improvement from launch +2 exp EQ.  I consider both stagnant and done by EQ 4 years prior, and in some cases a step backwards.

 I am tired of the DPS mentality, in which consist of spaming buttons to gain another 10 DPS to the parse have taken over games.  I speak specifically of EQ2 where all that matters is DPS, DPS, and more DPS.  Gone are the days of strategy, planning, and reliying on player skill.  Gone are the days of community being built by chatting with each other, as they are to busy spamming their numerous skills or spells.   Just DPS the mob down, and if you can't drop it, go get more DPS or spam harder. 

DPS is what killed the genre for me.  It's all about how much damage I can contribute instead of all the other skills I've learned through the years.

There are other ideas that can revitalize the genre totally non class related. 

How about a mix of static and non-static randomly generated zones and dungeons, player built towns, player invented skills/spells, etc.  Surely technology exists in which dungeons can be randomly generated and discovered only breifly from a quest for a group or raiders, that are mostly unique and have random events placed through -- so no event is ever entirely the same.  Couple that with casters researching long lost spell and fragments found during dungeon crawls and placed in a town library that the effects are defined by the player that discovers it, and is named after them.  Towns that are created and populated or even destroyed by the player population.  A mmo in which even simple actions such as a single dungeon crawl impacts the your city and thus the world.

Imagine a player based city in which a dungeon crawl results in rescuing an NPC along the way, who is so grateful he'll return to your town as a merchant or quest giver.. pointing other groups in the direction of another undiscovered location rumor he heard of or offering a unique city item, thus increasing exploration in a rewarding way.  Or that same person you rescued is actually the dungeon boss sending you on quests that increase his/her power, and when the time is right calls his minions to destroy your city thus prompting an immediate raid to rescue the city against him and his npc's.

A dynamic world that is always different from one day to the next, and certainly not the same on other servers.

Reinventing the wheel does nothing.  If it's not broken, don't fix it.  However creating a new wheel can result in unlimited potential.  MMO's are attempting to reinvent the same wheel with classes, and havn't created a new wheel in years.  It's time to focus on a dynamic world, and not a dynamic class for those that want to be uber tank/healer/dps all rolled into one.

Tabula Rasa had it right, but none of you fuckers played it. I never got to try out the sniper before it closed down.

For this to actually work though, it would probably need to be more twitch based, which I think games should be. I hate fighting in rpgs like this -> Ok, hey, a mob one level higher than me... *Goes to beat it up* Ok, not too hard, wait, two more were attatched to it, I can't win this now... there is no way. I can't run, becaues their teather is too far, and I can't do anything to kill them fast enough.

In more twitch based games, you have more possibilites to actually pull crap other games can't. Like, being actually able to run and kite/dodge damage. Or hit them faster than they can try and recover, or even use the shield as a twitch based thing, where you have to raise it for it to be effective. The dice rolls/set numbers makes most games slow, and pre-determined from the second you start the fight.

Anyways, would love for a twitch based mmo. Hellgate london was great imo with this (I don't care what you classify it as, I loved it). Sure there were tanks (Guardians), but you didn't have to have them to do anything. Plus, they weren't useless at dps. If you were any other class, you pretty much had to try and dodge/use cover to avoid damage, mostly only the guardian could run in head first soaking damage for other to have an easier time killing things. But he wasn't invulnerable and could be killed just as easily as anyone else with the right combination of enemies.

Still. We need more twitch based games with rpg elements.

It realy isent that hard to do away with the Tank and spank scenario. You just have to change how the game playes.

1. You could go shooter, like a Gears of War online, where you could pick up your wounded team mates before they bleed out
2. You could do a Assassin creed type setting where you have to dish out damage to heal yourself.
3. You can make it twitch based and let peoples reaction times and real life skill determine the outcome. In the Original AOC Melee fighters IRL skills realy did make a diffrence for example, to bad FUncom made caster and healers the game would have been a master pice if they just made it pure Melee.
4. If you make a Mecha, fighter pilot, or Ship combat game you could have totaly diffrent types of combat. That do not have to fall back to the tank and spank scenario.
5. If you  had abilities like parry for others, jump into cover, spot weakness, active Block,  push out of the way, duck, evasive maneuvers, Catch arrows or staunch bleeding. You could have Melee fights that could the feel of Hector VS achilles in the movie Troy.

To make a long list short these are just examples I can come up with 10 more at the top of my head. But in the end the basic machanic is that you have to keep yourself alive but still have to rely on others to hold your back. Using active manuvers like Parry for others, pick you up when you get downed, push you out of the way or just kill the threat before it gets to you.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

 The only other thing you could do is make everyone a hybrid but come one that is boring, I mean would anyone want to play a game where every one can do anything at any given time?

 

Oh just every casual/soloer on this forum...

Originally posted by protoroc

Originally posted by CactusmanX

 The only other thing you could do is make everyone a hybrid but come one that is boring, I mean would anyone want to play a game where every one can do anything at any given time?

 

Oh just every casual/soloer on this forum...

Very easy to get rid  of the tank, heal, nuke dynamic in a solo game. Give everyone access to every power at max level, and let them all solo, because you can do everything yourself, no need for other players to kill mobs, unless now and then you zerg a mob, in othe words several people group and wack the mob at the same time, no real coordination required.

And you seriously think a twitchy MMO without classes, or with everyone being a DPS/selfheal hybrid, is going to be more popular than the current systems?

Step 1 is coming up with a new idea

Step 2 is making it work

But the problem is Step 3, selling it.

You cant sell much just for being different if you just cut away half the game and claim its fresh and new. I dont think there is an even remotely large enough audience who dislikes the current MMO gameplay enough in order to make a game which has to reinvent the wheel, and will subsequently not hold a candle to the polish and content of run-of-the-mill games, a success.

You guys are automatically assuming you just get a different gameplay system, but with the same sophistication and evolution of current MMOs. Well, newsflash, you wont. Which is why right now nobody makes one of these.