Originally posted by DarkPony

 

Wow, you must be pretty thick skulled to keep on ignoring the point the OP is making again and again and you even try to spin the table on him/her. Repeat after me; the lesser of two evils is still an evil. Some people, like you, personally, would happily choose the lesser and move on with life. Others, if they have the opportunity not to choose either of them, will move heaven and earth to do so.

In your, very flawed reasoning, every wrong in the world loses it's meaning when put next to a bigger wrong. Where does that line of thought lead us? Shrugging off the killing fields of Cambodia and Stalin's brutal reign because of the fact that there has been a holocaust? 

Next to being aware of the absurdity in that, you should really understand that perceiving injustice is subjective. To be honest, I once have been more shocked by hearing about a shopkeeper being stabbed very close to my home, than reading about another planecrash somewhere on the other side of the world.

Also it is a little pathetic to try to win the argument by going personal on people because of the examples they give. It won't distract me from realizing you fail to grasp the core of the issue.

the full scope of my point can and has been made and it exists on more than one level using this simple example

Its the slave taking a prinicpled fight becuase he was promised one tool over another while ignoring the fact that he is a slave and that is the larger issue.

This example goes much deepeer than just gaming.

 ADDED: at this stage in the world you are lucky to have ANY game you like to play let alone one that lies.

but again, lets quit and move on please.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by solarine

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

....

I am someone that is no where near as morally bankrupt as you.

.... 

 

Oh come on, *you* also show a good bit of moral bankruptcy in this thread: You judge people you probably don't know for things you cannot and should not be sure of. On the virtue scale, that scores pretty low for me. It is ironic that you're actually trying to set yourself on a high horse with this.

You're like the new generation of journalists who confuse personal conclusion with facts and readily pass judgment.

So, I suggest you start with the man in the mirror.

 

 

 

lol as should you my friend, as should you. However, I do not see how judging another to be morally bankrupt because they do not think Murder, Child Molestation and theft are big deals make me morally bankrupt. I am far from perfect, never claimed to be perfect. Understanding that Murder, Child molestation and theft  are big deals makes me farther from Morally bankrupt than someone that does not consider them big deals though. I will continue to hold that opinion lol. It is odd that you jump on me for judging Seancad only after he judged me. And I judged him based on the fact that he thinks murder, child molestation and theft aren't really that bad which I would assume means you agree with him?

Damn, and I thought the song reference would make it clear...

I was talking about you judging the likes of Michael Jackson, not some other poster. He has died with a lousy reputation due to the allegations, but we have no way of knowing how true they are. Yet so many people assume they have undeniable facts,when they don't. My bit about journalism had a lot to do with that: Sadly, nowadays, even the journalists do this - pass judgment on people or institutions without knowing the full facts. Go on assumption. I see them do it. It's certainly not a virtue. 

And for clarification, there's no way I'm going to agree with that other poster if he thinks murder, child molestation and theft are "small potatoes" in the grand scheme of things. It'd be really hypocritical of me to "jump on you", as you say, for such a small thing as passing judgment and then see some dreadful crimes unimportant.

It's just that I'm not a believer in reputation lynching without undeniable facts. Actually, working in the media, you can see it's a form of perverted entertainment in itself. 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

Wow, you must be pretty thick skulled to keep on ignoring the point the OP is making again and again and you even try to spin the table on him/her. Repeat after me; the lesser of two evils is still an evil. Some people, like you, personally, would happily choose the lesser and move on with life. Others, if they have the opportunity not to choose either of them, will move heaven and earth to do so.

In your, very flawed reasoning, every wrong in the world loses it's meaning when put next to a bigger wrong. Where does that line of thought lead us? Shrugging off the killing fields of Cambodia and Stalin's brutal reign because of the fact that there has been a holocaust? 

Next to being aware of the absurdity in that, you should really understand that perceiving injustice is subjective. To be honest, I once have been more shocked by hearing about a shopkeeper being stabbed very close to my home, than reading about another planecrash somewhere on the other side of the world.

Also it is a little pathetic to try to win the argument by going personal on people because of the examples they give. It won't distract me from realizing you fail to grasp the core of the issue.

 

the full scope of my point can and has been made and it exists on more than one level using this simple example

Its the slave taking a prinicpled fight becuase he was promised one tool over another while ignoring the fact that he is a slave and that is the larger issue.

This example goes much deepeer than just gaming.

 ADDED: at this stage in the world you are lucky to have ANY game you like to play let alone one that lies.

but again, lets quit and move on please.

yawn kinda boring without Darth Raiden going Berserk  bout DF topics

Originally posted by solarine

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by solarine

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

....

I am someone that is no where near as morally bankrupt as you.

.... 

 

Oh come on, *you* also show a good bit of moral bankruptcy in this thread: You judge people you probably don't know for things you cannot and should not be sure of. On the virtue scale, that scores pretty low for me. It is ironic that you're actually trying to set yourself on a high horse with this.

You're like the new generation of journalists who confuse personal conclusion with facts and readily pass judgment.

So, I suggest you start with the man in the mirror.

 

 

 

lol as should you my friend, as should you. However, I do not see how judging another to be morally bankrupt because they do not think Murder, Child Molestation and theft are big deals make me morally bankrupt. I am far from perfect, never claimed to be perfect. Understanding that Murder, Child molestation and theft  are big deals makes me farther from Morally bankrupt than someone that does not consider them big deals though. I will continue to hold that opinion lol. It is odd that you jump on me for judging Seancad only after he judged me. And I judged him based on the fact that he thinks murder, child molestation and theft aren't really that bad which I would assume means you agree with him?

 

 

Damn, and I thought the song reference would make it clear...

I was talking about you judging the likes of Michael Jackson, not some other poster. He has died with a lousy reputation due to the allegations, but we have no way of knowing how true they are. Yet so many people assume they have undeniable facts,when they don't. My bit about journalism had a lot to do with that: Sadly, nowadays, even the journalists do this - pass judgment on people or institutions without knowing the full facts. Go on assumption. I see them do it. It's certainly not a virtue. 

And for clarification, there's no way I'm going to agree with that other poster if he thinks murder, child molestation and theft are "small potatoes" in the grand scheme of things. It'd be really hypocritical of me to "jump on you", as you say, for such a small thing as passing judgment and then see some dreadful crimes unimportant.

It's just that I'm not a believer in reputation lynching without undeniable facts. Actually, working in the media, you can see it's a form of perverted entertainment in itself. 

 

Ahh, I see what you mean and understand. R. Kelly would have probably been a better example.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

Actually no. You would end up paying $5.00 more to transfer and a month's subscription as compared to $50.00 and an included month for a new account. Where exactly does the $40.00 number come from? I need a link.

Not sure if you still need that source zymurgeist, but this transfer price information comes directly from the north american Darkfall website, it was provided by Tasos in the news section of forumfall.

www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Respit

 

Ok.

So tell us, how is anyone supposed to make a decision on what to do?

Considering that noone knows what the transfer fee or restrictions will be?

 

Or is this just another of AV's "my way, or the highway" moves?

 

honestly and I do not mean this in spite or to start a fight but it is very much the truth.

 

I really think you guys might want to consider getting a better job. This whole "its an extra $50!" and "how many accounts should I get!" is really kind of silly.

I spend more than $15 a day on food for christ sake!

Well, I do mean this with spite.

Stop trolling.

Anytime someone brings up any valid point, you endlessly troll it if SEANMCAD finds it a trivial concern for SEANMCAD .

Typically claiming ignorance along the way.

Again, I'll ask you, why do you find such difficulty accepting other people's valid concerns, even if you don't see it that way?

I guess the "my way, or the highway" rang true afterall.

Phish...

Originally posted by Respit

Well, I do mean this with spite.

Stop trolling.

Anytime someone brings up any valid point, you endlessly troll it if SEANMCAD finds it a trivial concern for SEANMCAD .

Typically claiming ignorance along the way.

 

Again, I'll ask you, why do you find such difficulty accepting other people's valid concerns, even if you don't see it that way?

 

I guess the "my way, or the highway" rang true afterall.

 

Phish...

make it simple for yourself and do what I have been doing and block.

you are now blocked (and no you are not alone). if you did the same then you wouldnt have to worry about me.

Originally posted by Routver

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

Actually no. You would end up paying $5.00 more to transfer and a month's subscription as compared to $50.00 and an included month for a new account. Where exactly does the $40.00 number come from? I need a link.

 

Not sure if you still need that source zymurgeist, but this transfer price information comes directly from the north american Darkfall website, it was provided by Tasos in the news section of forumfall.

www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php

 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

There's nothing about transfer prices on there

Originally posted by TenBlue

Originally posted by Routver

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

Actually no. You would end up paying $5.00 more to transfer and a month's subscription as compared to $50.00 and an included month for a new account. Where exactly does the $40.00 number come from? I need a link.

 

Not sure if you still need that source zymurgeist, but this transfer price information comes directly from the north american Darkfall website, it was provided by Tasos in the news section of forumfall.

www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php

 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

 

There's nothing about transfer prices on there

You're right.I guess I mistook the 3 months option for the transfer price

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Respit

Well, I do mean this with spite.

Stop trolling.

Anytime someone brings up any valid point, you endlessly troll it if SEANMCAD finds it a trivial concern for SEANMCAD .

Typically claiming ignorance along the way.

 

Again, I'll ask you, why do you find such difficulty accepting other people's valid concerns, even if you don't see it that way?

 

I guess the "my way, or the highway" rang true afterall.

 

Phish...

 

make it simple for yourself and do what I have been doing and block.

you are now blocked (and no you are not alone). if you did the same then you wouldnt have to worry about me.

Too funny.

Sorry, I don't block people just because I don't agree with them. Else you would have been blocked long ago.

Worry about you?

Not hardly. I have "bigger fish to fry", than to worry about you.

I'll look forward the warning email I am sure to receive for bullying. No, wait, wrong person...

Originally posted by Guillermo197

LOL! This is a scam. No matter how you put it.

You either have to pay an outragious transfer fee of $40 and have to wait 3 months for it or you pay another $50 for a new NA account. You either lose $100 or $90 for a game like this, with a first class liar in charge.

Second, if they had a NA publisher, then they would be in charge of the money transactions in NA! Period!

That is how publisher deals work!

Here in Europe with LOTRO it's Codemasters that charges you and shows up in the transactions. Not Turbine.

Here in Europe with WAR it's GOA that charges you and shows up in the transactions. Not EA Mythic.

Here in Europe it's NcSoft Europe that charges you for their games. Not NcSoft Korea!

The fact that Aventurine SA (wich is registered in Greece/ EU) charges you means there is no NA publisher. Period! Hence, they didn't even bother to create a US entity of Aventurine.

And seriously, I think we can put a very safe bet that the NA server is standing in a EU data center as well.

(or in the utmost situation, altho highly unlikely, they just ordered some rack space at a US data center and dropped some hardware there that's remotely handled by them from Greece. Making it highly suspicious anyhow).

I dont think it was a scam, at least not originally.

The most likely is that they had a publisher, who backed out. And since they now are in deep they don't inform the players that they are managing things themselves. If another company was managing the US servers it would be logical (but not nice) that you need a special version, like with Warhammer.

And since they need the money they are hoping people will just buy the US version also if they keep things quit, even if they know that they sooner or later will be forced to transfer characters for free.

But they must have rented a server in the US and run it on remote, otherwise a simple IP tracing  would prove things and they would loose all US players without actually saving money, they are not that stupid.

I wouldn't call it a scam, but the things sounds un ethical anyways.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

You can't compare necessity to entertainment first off. I do see your point though, some people do not see the need to be responsible with there money. My Daughter has trouble with that but I am assuming it is because she's 14 and me and my wife are trying to work with her on it. Accepting paying again for something you've already paid for isn't something I can do in good conscience and I am doing fairly well finacially.  I mean the economy in the US is crap at the moment and a good bit of that stems from the lack of control on individuals, company and goverment spending.

Seeing how many find this kind of thing acceptable though kind of makes one wonder about the future.

 

MO is charging some where around $70 of a beta test license and people are jumping all over it

ONE blue ray = $40 (2 hours max of entertainment)

come on, lets just stop this sillyness its stupid. Games are cheap. Costs less than an afternoon of golf for christ sake.
 

I have never payed that much for a blue-ray.  Where do you shop?  bendover.com

Not advertising DFO wasn't enough.

Significantly limiting the availability of DFO wasn't enough.

Providing a beta and allowing the beta players to post thoughts, videos and such, was not enough.

Gamers that obsessed about DFO bought it; played a game that needed more development.   Some left and complain to this day, and some are happy like myself.     Now that we are 5-months from EU release, update is you can play on NA release on day 1 if you buy a new account, "or" you can transfer from EU to NA in 90-days for an as yet, undetermined fee, if any, and certain restrictions likely unknown due to understanding balance at the time of transfer.

The criminal is not AV, but the player so anxious to play a game they failed to wait for more information to determine if it was worth it, or worth it to wait, or not worth it at all.   You'd think DFO was the only game any one has ever bought and didn't like.   The fact is, the state of DFO yesterday at NA release is awesome.      All those playing are having fun, and then there is every one else, many of whom using message boards to vent their anger in any direction possible, but at themselves, when in reality, the anger is a total and complete waste of time.

-CC

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Not advertising DFO wasn't enough.

 

Significantly limiting the availability of DFO wasn't enough.

 

Providing a beta and allowing the beta players to post thoughts, videos and such, was not enough.

 

Gamers that obsessed about DFO bought it; played a game that needed more development.   Some left and complain to this day, and some are happy like myself.     Now that we are 5-months from EU release, update is you can play on NA release on day 1 if you buy a new account, "or" you can transfer from EU to NA in 90-days for an as yet, undetermined fee, if any, and certain restrictions likely unknown due to understanding balance at the time of transfer.

 

The criminal is not AV, but the player so anxious to play a game they failed to wait for more information to determine if it was worth it, or worth it to wait, or not worth it at all.   You'd think DFO was the only game any one has ever bought and didn't like.   The fact is, the state of DFO yesterday at NA release is awesome.      All those playing are having fun, and then there is every one else, many of whom using message boards to vent their anger in any direction possible, but at themselves, when in reality, the anger is a total and complete waste of time.

 

-CC

Venting anger has been proven to be very therapeutic, so people do it, much like you just did.

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Host ns1.globalnetoptex.com
Location US US, United States
City Redwood City, CA -
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ISP Global Netoptex
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Latitude 37°47'42" North
Longitude 122°24'94" West

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

I am upset about finding out I did not get what I was told I was paying for. I am upset that in order to get what I already paid for I must now pay again. Sure degree matters, just ask all the Dark and Light players that were charged twice for clients and subscription fee's.  I will point at that there was a scam several years ago where a guy was selling Copper engravings of  Abraham Lincoln for 5$ plus shipping and handling. What people recieved after paying there 5$ plus shipping and handling was a penny which was technically a copper engraving of Abraham Lincoln. There were numerous people that fell victim to this scam and felt the need to get the proper legal agencies involved. The person was arrested, tried, convicted and forced to return the money.

A scam is a scam regardless of the amount involved. If you wish to discuss the degree then lets do that. You see, I will say that only 100k people paid for the DFO EU client (Which is low in comparison to the actual number) and I will say that Half are/were NA (This is prior to the NA server being launched, where many EU's had trouble ordering due to the CC only payment method). So 50k NA players bought the EU client after being told they can have 1 char per server.  Now lets say that the client only cost 50$. See we low balled everything intentionally in order to keep people from jumping up and shouting "you made those numbers up". I know I made them up, and they are intentionally lower than the actual numbers.

Thats $2,500,000, if you wish to discuss the degree of the scam there it is. They scammed the NA players out of 2.5mil. You asked for a reply, so there it is.  

 

fair enough now I would like to make two points on this subject.

1. you have limited amount of time in your life so when you select to a principle to fight for it also means there is another principle you are not fighting for. So when you fight for a minor injustice you are by default saying that this injustice is more important than others. This is basically the law of opportunity cost. Now speaking personally out of all the injustices out there I would not select this one (speaking for myself).

  So your saying that fighting this minor injustice is a waste of time due to more important matters to fight for, yet its not a waste of time to fight the fighter of this minor injustice. Is there not more important matters for you to attend to? We all choose the battles that we fight. For you to say that this guys battle is insignificant, yet, actually take the time to respond to this insignificance, makes you a fucking hypocrite.

2. Now, as a subject you have far less options and power then I think you are really fully conscious of which is a much larger issue than this game could ever be. Now, given that reality you as a subject have limited choices for making your life better. I strongly suggest that if you find a specific game that you like better than DF that you go play that game. If not, my advice to you is to continue playing and find a greater cause to limited your life experience over.
For the most part that is my say on the subject matter ?
 

   Now, as a subject, you have far less brain power then I think you are really conscious of. Which is a much larger issue than this fighting the fighter of a minor injustice. Now, given that in reality, you as a subject, have limited choices for making your life better. I strongly suggest that if you find a specific " fighter of a minor injustice", that you like better than GrayGhost70, that you go annoy him. If not, my advice to you is to continue to spout nonsense and find an even more minor injustice to seek out and harass that person instead.  For the most part, that is my say on your retardation.

   

or in other words, get over the unfairness of being charged twice for a pen and use that time to fight larger issues.

Or in other words, get over the fact that someone is fighting a battle that you do not deem worthy and go find a battle you wish to fight.

seriously why do you guys bother with sean, he is a bigger troll than those who always have something negative to say

<Mod edit>
The day you start making purchases on prinicples is the day you really need to learn more about companies that most of you clearly do becuase this aint nothing baby.

really us trolls where originally wrong, the game is not vapourware. (its actually pretty good)

but yeah agree with sentiments. Aventurine are complete asshat morons who are reapetively ripping off their few fans.