Originally posted by trancejeremy

Two comments:

I have well over 250 hours invested into my highest level character, and he's only 44.  Maybe if you have someone power leveling you, you could reach it in 5 to 10 days. But even with the new xp curve (which does help) I doubt it. Then again, I apparently don't have the tolerance for grinding that some do (hard to believe, since I've played Korean games). But I have almost none of my grinding deeds done (except the return to bree one)

The quests stop being interesting (and numerous) around level 20. (I discovered this after buying my lifetime sub, sadly).  This also (at least for me) was when I was basically playing the game alone, since the numbers of other players dropped off after the trial area.

I would suggest subbing, but don't buy a lifetime sub unless you have a lot of money, or you've played from 20-30 without disliking the game (since the rest of the way to 50 is a slog like 20-30)

Dude, why do you keep posting that there are hardly any quests after 20?  If you are 44 head to Foreschel there is a ton there you can do.  More than you will need to hit 50.  There are also quests in western Angmar and a handful in eastern Misty Mountains.  If you are willing to actually group, even more than that opens up.

As for how long it takes to level, I was sure that you were full of it.  Logged on and did some "played" on my toons.  Sure enough, all of them had insane hours in compared to what it would have taken in something like RoM or WoW.  The thing is, I was having so much fun on them I didn't even realize the hours I've put in since launch.   

The thing I love about LoTRO is that, to my tastes, the journey really is worth savoring.  My main has more than a month played now (something like 1100  hours played).  I've never hit half of that in any other MMO without getting bored out of my skull.

Now, I don't want to knock your review, because I don't really have any problems with it.  What I am going to say is that without having been through Moria, it is all fluff.  Because Moria is the meat and potatoes of LOTRO now.  You by far spend the most time there while playing LOTRO, and I'll tell you, it's nothing like the rest of the game.  Well, actually, you could just level all your toons to 50 and stop.  Then it might remain fun for a while.

Honestly, in order to do a full and fair review of LOTRO, you need to get a toon through Moria and legendaries, and relics, and more legendaries, and relics, and radiance runs, and more radiance runs, and failed watcher runs, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium.  Because honestly, if you play the game to max level, which getting to 60 is super easy, the game really slows down.  Now, bear in mind that the reality of LOTRO is that the game is wonderfully fun to level to about fifty -something, but beyond that, it's time to make an alt and repeat.

Lastly, I want to say that even though I am negative about LOTRO, I honestly do like the game.  There aren't many pve mmorpgs out there that I enjoy more.  To a point.  And that point is when I enter Moria.  Then I feel like I have entered a Korean grind-fest or an old EQ Frenzied Ghoul camp, well probably a combination of the two.

Something I would like to add: I found Moria to be very enjoyable and only as "grindy" as I chose to make it.

I understand the whole radiance-gating thing, but lets face it - right now radiance gear is required for *one* raid...that you can choose to ignore...I mostly have. It's too early to tell if Turbine "got the message" and will listen to all the complaints about the radiance gear, if when the next big expansion hits you simply don't need the radiance gear for the new raids, then it will cease to be an issue. (And honestly that is what I expect to happen, most of my characters are decked out in crit-crafted gear and Lothlorien/late moria quested stuff and I'm having no problems in the newest raids just released)

I strongly dissagree that SoA was better than MoM.. I actually think its the opposite, most things are much better now than it was in SoA but some people just like to look back with rose-colored glasses. Seems to me most of the old devs are still working in the game since its the same people posting on the forum.

I find the epic quests more interesting and better story than the old ones, leveling 50-60 is the best in the game, the end-game isntnace are better and are actually worth doing. Itemeization is much better now, PvMp is better and so on. The only thing lacking is crafting but its not that bad. The thing lacking have been QA and bug fixing. MoM was abit rushed out the door probably because of Wotlk

so MoM>>SoA in my opinion :)

You say we look back with rose-coloured glasses, I wonder what kind of colour your glasses are? 

Appreciate your comments, I will say that I did point out that I was not going to mention any aspects of the MoM expansion and in previous posts I explained I do not enjoy MMORPG's just for the end game, the expierence for me is that travel to the level cap, Having expierenced the majority of the game except the end game content I think it would be fair to assume I have a decent opinion of the game.

Originally posted by Yeebo

Originally posted by trancejeremy

Two comments:

I have well over 250 hours invested into my highest level character, and he's only 44.  Maybe if you have someone power leveling you, you could reach it in 5 to 10 days. But even with the new xp curve (which does help) I doubt it. Then again, I apparently don't have the tolerance for grinding that some do (hard to believe, since I've played Korean games). But I have almost none of my grinding deeds done (except the return to bree one)

The quests stop being interesting (and numerous) around level 20. (I discovered this after buying my lifetime sub, sadly).  This also (at least for me) was when I was basically playing the game alone, since the numbers of other players dropped off after the trial area.

I would suggest subbing, but don't buy a lifetime sub unless you have a lot of money, or you've played from 20-30 without disliking the game (since the rest of the way to 50 is a slog like 20-30)

 

Dude, why do you keep posting that there are hardly any quests after 20?  If you are 44 head to Foreschel there is a ton there you can do.  More than you will need to hit 50.  There are also quests in western Angmar and a handful in eastern Misty Mountains.  If you are willing to actually group, even more than that opens up.

As for how long it takes to level, I was sure that you were full of it.  Logged on and did some "played" on my toons.  Sure enough, all of them had insane hours in compared to what it would have taken in something like RoM or WoW.  The thing is, I was having so much fun on them I didn't even realize the hours I've put in since launch.   

The thing I love about LoTRO is that, to my tastes, the journey really is worth savoring.  My main has more than a month played now (something like 1100  hours played).  I've never hit half of that in any other MMO without getting bored out of my skull.

 

Claiming there are no quests after 20 is just blatantly wrong! Between the Lonelands and North Downs getting to low 30's is a breeze, even if you only solo. If you don't know where to go to get quests, you are not reading them or paying attention. Stop lying or get better informed.

 The models in AC2 looked pretty bad azz.

   Great article that cuts to the chase on what makes and breaksLOTRO. I had the opportunity to beta (Ran trial not long after again to see the improvements and seriously considering the lifetime subscription - any LOTROsource members out there still?) and found they did an excellent job of capturing the Tolkien universe. Artistically it is a beautiful game and you must at some point turn all of the settings up to understand.

   I always start by testing soloing in any game and can say you will be well occupied if you choose this path. At a certain point it almost becomes essential to join a fellowship. In fact a group of co-workers joined and the biggest problem they ran into was maintaining their fellowship for the quests, but as a fan of RP as well one fellowship dissolves as our downtrodden heroes head home to their plump hobbit wives and cihldren another forms (<--Though I could never bring myself to play a hobbit).

   I do agree that character customization and appearance is a sore spot.  For anyone who ever had an opportunity to try Earth and Beyond I felt that provided the most rounded ability to modify character appearance from a variety of nonsense free and nonsense hair styles to scars, tattoos and other facial features to a weight and height slider. If they could make that kind of revision so players can get a better feel of immersion in the experience they might have something more.

    What they did do that was brilliant was add the option for a lifetime membership. The one thing that often sickens me is the moneypit that MMOs have become. For one flat lifetime fee you can jump in and play any time and if you do play the game more than 3 years which some have at this point you've made up for that investment.

    They have so much more they can tap into that's Tolkien related including some loose ends. Tolkien was huge on maps, song, poetry, heraldry, epic battles, etc. Crafting should be unique , incredible in appearance and design and definitely not the simplified system found in other MMOs(runes, ornate carvings, etc).

     Please remember though that as they are dealing with Tolkien Enterprises they do also have a large number of constraints/confines they must work within.

Originally posted by daeandor

Now, I don't want to knock your review, because I don't really have any problems with it.  What I am going to say is that without having been through Moria, it is all fluff.  Because Moria is the meat and potatoes of LOTRO now.  You by far spend the most time there while playing LOTRO, and I'll tell you, it's nothing like the rest of the game.  Well, actually, you could just level all your toons to 50 and stop.  Then it might remain fun for a while.

 

Honestly, in order to do a full and fair review of LOTRO, you need to get a toon through Moria and legendaries, and relics, and more legendaries, and relics, and radiance runs, and more radiance runs, and failed watcher runs, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium.  Because honestly, if you play the game to max level, which getting to 60 is super easy, the game really slows down.  Now, bear in mind that the reality of LOTRO is that the game is wonderfully fun to level to about fifty -something, but beyond that, it's time to make an alt and repeat.

 

Lastly, I want to say that even though I am negative about LOTRO, I honestly do like the game.  There aren't many pve mmorpgs out there that I enjoy more.  To a point.  And that point is when I enter Moria.  Then I feel like I have entered a Korean grind-fest or an old EQ Frenzied Ghoul camp, well probably a combination of the two.

I tend to agree with you that the current end game isn't as good as the old 50 end game.  I pretty much hate the radiance system.  However, I thought leveling 50-60 in Moria was a hell of a lot of fun.  It's one of the most impressive "dungeon" settings I've ever encountered in an MMO.    Worth the price of entry just to see it, some of the zones are simply stunning.

Given how long it takes to actually reach the cap, a player that enjoys the levelling game has at least a few months of really awesome content in front of them.  I have a guy that's only up to 52.  Did a "played" on him and it was around 350 hours (!?). My main has so many hours in it's embarrassing. 

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that there is more to LoTRO than the crappy grindy Moria endgame (i.e., the stuff they expect you to do when you hit 60).  If you are still digging it around the mid to late 20s, it's well worth seeing it out to the cap.  You are in for a treat. 

Just last night I re-subbed to see what they've done since Moria's release. I left not long after the expansion released because the end-game to me was not what I was hoping for.

My hope is they've added some more less "grindy" end-game content to keep the casual gamers happy. I'll try to remember to post here about my opition of whats become of LOTRO.

Wish me luck!

Originally posted by shakermaker0

Appreciate your comments, I will say that I did point out that I was not going to mention any aspects of the MoM expansion and in previous posts I explained I do not enjoy MMORPG's just for the end game, the expierence for me is that travel to the level cap, Having expierenced the majority of the game except the end game content I think it would be fair to assume I have a decent opinion of the game.

And that's why I have no qualms about your review.  It is true, LOTRO is a great journey.  Sure it can be bland if you are not drawn to the storyline, but if it even remotely interests you, it is excellent.

Well I read the guys blog. I have a lifetime sub.

I have to say he would have been correct if he was talking about SOA. I  don't think he had any of the mines of moria.

I agree its hard to make money in the game until you hit the level cap, once your there making money is easy as theres nothing left to spend it on.

However once you reach 60 and if your not in a raiding kin theres nothing left to do. The game at that point becomes a grind of dailies to get gift boxes and or grow weapons.  To meas the game seams to be getting a lot of attention from wow players and that is sad, if I wanted to play wow I would have played it, and now with all the new wow players playing lotro the counity has went to the dogs.

I don't play for the end game so this doesnt really matter to me

Originally posted by shakermaker0

I don't play for the end game so this doesnt really matter to me

I dont play for the end game either, but eventually you will get there. Then what? You start an alt, like me? How many times are you willing to do that? I stopped at five...

Well I am on my 7th toon who is level 30 atm , and the question then becomes what then when I get that one to 60.  Like I said I been playing since beta a2. All 5 of my toons were all 50 before moria. Getting to 50 and yes even 60 was quite a journey and very fun. However now  4 of 7 of my toons are completely geared up with rad gear.  I need a lot more content, and there is no more content, just repatable grinds.  Were suposed to have an increase in level cap. So hopefully theres more content other than mines of moria.

I wish for the days of SOA when crating meant something, you wanted crafted stuff. You loved the economy when 5 gold meant you worked you tail off. now days I can make 20 gold off a 2nd age huters bow out of one of the gift chests.

I think its a great game, but they made leveling super easy. you can go from 1-60 in a week non stop or two weeks if you take some breaks.

So the question become how many times a week do you want to run turtle, or gear gated instances. 

I believe the game is has some of the greatest graphics of any game out there.  The rude npc's need to be replace with more likable voice overs.  Its a great game for the new kids on the block but eventually after you get all sevel toons to 60 you will become board but thats just IMHO.

My question is if your not into the end game, I guess your just into leveling. If you can level 7 slots in less than 6 months what do you do then?  I was really not trying to put the op down. I was just trying to say the end game is not all cracked up the way that a lot of us old timers would like to see. Something that I see less and less of is the old timers, and they  being replaced by the new kids on the block. Retention seams to be a problem thus the continual welcome back week ends.

im not sure if exist a way to re organize and make crafting something that worths, even for high level players...

in my opinion, despite the fact that i love the game, the radiance is something quite not necessary, at least  not now...

worse with weapons. theres no reason to craft a sword or bow 50+ once exist legen weapon..

 i dont know why made a supreme tier for armor and weapon crafters...thanks they didnt put radiance stat in the rings :)

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the last two posts rather a lot.

I have 3 characters at 60th - all geared out almost exclusively in the best possible crafted gear. I just don't care about the watcher raid enough to do all the radiance runs...and it doesn't matter...All three are performing just fine in the new 3-6 man instances and I really don't miss the radiance stat at all.

I also can't help but think that people have just a bit of "rose tinted glasses" syndrome when looking back at SoA. I remember having multiple 50ths pre-MoM...you sat around doing basically nothing; you worked on the occasional "Book" line of quests, farmed stuff for deeds/faction and raided the Rift to fill out gear sets....over and over, with the occasional other raid tossed in. Which seems to me about exactly the same to where the game is at now...only there are actually more raids to choose from and more side bits to grind or not as you choose.

Originally posted by ericbelser

I also can't help but think that people have just a bit of "rose tinted glasses" syndrome when looking back at SoA. I remember having multiple 50ths pre-MoM...you sat around doing basically nothing; you worked on the occasional "Book" line of quests, farmed stuff for deeds/faction and raided the Rift to fill out gear sets....over and over, with the occasional other raid tossed in. Which seems to me about exactly the same to where the game is at now...only there are actually more raids to choose from and more side bits to grind or not as you choose.

Yep, they sure do.  That and the fact I made a poor server selection was the reason I quit the first time.  Just not enough to do at level 50 for my taste.