Originally posted by billie

pss. if you are interested, the ACTUAL Disciples of Christ sent missionaries to pursue saul in his ministry to the gohim (gentiles) correcting them that saul did not preach an accurate version of Christ's Teachings! this is documented in sauls 'epistles' to those gentile churches (can be found in the nt)

Are you talking about the Jesuits? Is the Epistle you're referring to Galations? Haha, bud, you got yourself in the wrong debate. I won't derail the thread here, but I'll just wait for your response..

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

 Sure, it wasn't the 'first' copy, but it doesn't matter.

You can say this about the whole of the cannon.

Unfortunately it really does matter the 10 commandments, like all western biblical cannon's, have no original to point back too.

It's like a Federal Reserve that never had a Gold Standard. When talking about the foundation of all creation just taking it on faith that these documents existed and say what you claim is fail by any measure.

Actually, its completely different than the federal reserve.

We have over 6,000 manuscripts, the oldest being (either the dead sea scrolls or Sinaiticus) saying the exact same thing, all of which point to an original copy. Of course, the grammar structure is different and different translators used different words, but if you compare every version against every other one, the same meaning in nearly every verse is the exact same.

Completely different than the Federal reserve.

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Originally posted by MarleVVLL
...We have over 6,000 manuscripts, the oldest being (either the dead sea scrolls or Sinaiticus) saying the exact same thing, all of which point to an original copy. Of course, the grammar structure is different and different translators used different words, but if you compare every version against every other one, the same meaning in nearly every verse is the exact same...

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Is this intentional deception?
One of the most important contributions of the Dead Sea Scrolls is the numerous Biblical (Old Testament, OT) manuscripts which have been discovered. Until those 1947 discoveries at Qumran, the oldest manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures were copies from the 9th and 10th centuries AD by a group of Jewish scribes called the Massoretes. Now we have manuscripts around a thousand years older than those. The amazing truth is that these manuscripts are almost identical! Here is a strong example of the tender care which the Jewish scribes down through the centuries took in an effort to accurately copy the sacred Scriptures. We can have confidence that our Old Testament Scriptures faithfully represent the words given to Moses, David and the prophets. ref
It is the JEWISH scriptures that somewhat maintain content after the elohist & Yahwist redactions of the 8th-6th century BC.

The greek/latin/english versions of the nt do not exhibit this same congruity (whole chapters and books are missing between them.)
Modern "christanity" is not based on these old jewish scriptures, it is founded on the dogma of saul (aka paul) with it's atonement and grace scam replacing actual explicit orthodox jewish LAW. In fact modern "christanity" does about everything it can to separate itself from judaism; continuing that age-old hatred for all things jewish.
It always amazes me when i tell people Christ was a Jew and see their disbelief! Much moreso that his name was Joshua (Yeshua) and not jesus!! They always respond that is NOT what it says in their nt nor what they were preached at in church.

You rely on these later anonymous nt "scriptures" (e.g all four records of the Gospel: Mat, mark, luke, John) because you remove G and Christ from the picture, relying instead on the dogma of saul and modern dictates of a corrupt clergy. Intentionally misrepresenting that dogma of saul as bona fide teachings of Christ... NEVER specifying that is what saul preached vs this is what Christ taught! you scam people ALL of it (i.e nt) is what Christ taught. You are not faithful to Christ and especially not obedient to the ONE that sent him.

That nt seems to omit that Christ and G STILL exist!! You have no desire whatsoever to get verification from the top, rather just parrot what man has written (talmud, nt, recitation) replacing the Law passed down from G; but then again since you are not a jew you do not really care about Torah nor the 10 Commandments and the other +600 rules in the OT since they are for Jews, not 'christains.' (just like saul preached, ignore all that OT stuff he has a new religion for you guys!)

And when it is pointed out you are not even using the correct Name for Christ ("in his name"!!), nor his actual Teachings, you just ignore that and thump your nt to back up your agenda that justifies persecution of the current undesirables.

Nice timeline brings into even sharper focus that apparent intention of the early Christians to remain Jews, in the fullest sense of that word, for decades after Yeshua's murder. The differences of opinion between James, called the Brother of Christ, and paul seem now to have been dominated by this specific dividing line. Paul wanted to include non-Jews, and to allow modifications to Jewish Laws to accommodate them (e.g. no circumcision required) while James and his followers still considered themselves Jews, intended for their sect to remain Jewish, and expected their members to all be Jews. One can predict, on the basis that paul's faction won through the catholic apostlic church, that Christian writings have also been purged of this earlier tradition. It also explains why the "Church in Jerusalem" seems to have died out without a whimper. James and Mary and most of the unknown members of that church were literally cut out of the history of Christianity by later church fathers who purged the Christian literature as surely as the Roman destruction of Jerusalem purged much of the Jewish literature.

fyi, the romans murdered over half of the world's Jewish population, hitler murdered less than one quarter.

I think it's relevant to also point out that the generally accepted image of Jesus is long hair and a beard, something like this...

The only reason people believe he looked anything like that is because of the turin shroud. As for the shroud itself science has placed its gracious hand on this peice of fabric and the evidence that it's actually Da Vinci is quite striking.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5706640/Turin-Shroud-is-face-of-Leonardo-da-Vinci.html

K, I'm not willing to debate this subject in the open, as I've done it 10 times before.

I will say this, though:

Christianity is not Pauline theology. Christianity is not a heretic sect of reformed Judaism. Christianity is the FULFILLMENT of Judaism. The early Christians PROVED Jesus to be the Messiah FROM the OT Scriptures and promises. Sure, western Christians are mocked, and rightly so, but that does not disqualify the Truth of Christianity (or fulfilled Judaism).

If you are serious in wanting a debate, let's take it to a PM, as this is getting off topic anyways.