I rarely post on mmorpg.com, but I was just stopping by to say: wow. I don't care anyway since I was never a Darkfall obsessor on either side and have no intention of playing the game until 1) Aventurine becomes legitimate, which would take years and is unlikely to ever happened, and 2) offers a free trial. In the past, all the arguments meant nothing...AV's defenders would fall back on "the game isn't out yet, AV hasn't taken any of your money," which was true...and although AV deserved criticism for unethicalness, the whole pre-release Darkfall debacle should never have been as big a debate as it was due to that fact the defenders fell back on. Now however, that former fact is no longer true. Peoples' money have been taken.

What is being argued here? That players should have demanded AV sign thousands of contracts with the exact details of the future transfer options? How much does anyone want to bet that the same people defending AV's malice towards their customers in this case, would have argued such a thing would be "unrealistic" and "unsound"...which would be true, but it seems to have been the only other alternative in which the players could have acted reasonably and be treated fairly. Therefore if that one was unsound/unrealistic, then the other option, AV acting responsibly and using the common english language to explain what they were actually going to do (or, actually do it in a way that didn't require further explanation, aka. not requiring players to repurchase).

I guess if AV had asked for $1,000 to transfer a character, these defenders would be using the same argument "hey they told the truth, they said they would TAKE CARE of their customers and offer them a transfer option." And I guess the same argument would be used if they offered a free transfer of the character but then DID NOT ALLOW THE CHARACTER TO ACTUALLY BE PLAYED, just looked at. "Hey, he was still transferred!" I can hear being said.

The discussion in this topic is a truly sad demonstration of society's continuing defense of injustice and persecution of those that argue against injustice. This is what irritates me, not the Darkfall/AV discussion specifically. And because of these people, others have to put up with the continued repeats of injustices such as this, rather be in the mmorpg genre, the gaming industry in general, or the whole free market and other areas of society, because those creating the injustice are not held accountable.

SuperFreeza

Originally posted by chokepoint

 

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Originally posted by Wardrop

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Originally posted by chokepoint

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Originally posted by Ozmodan

 

Typical Aventurine, promised a free transfer, then backed out of it.  Can't trust them to keep any promises.  As to the cheating and exploiting, it is still prolific, soon as they patch one exploit, players find 3 more. 
Aventurine has to be up there for one of the worst MMO companies in the genre.

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They never said it would be free. The problem here is not Aventurine, it's people like you who do not read what is said.
Back on topic, how is the NA release going? Seems like the opposite of the horribad EU launch this time, nothing but happy gamers.
 

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Accually it was on the closed beta forums and on the main forums. So it people like you that dont even play the game that allow companies to pull this type of switch on its player base.
Again, i choose with my wallet. and the wallet is god.

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This is what they actually said:

 

 

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"Players in North America are welcome to participate in the European Launch. The plans for US servers aren’t finalized at the time of this announcement. We will offer the option for character migration to US servers for N. American players who wish to use it. We have had people playing without problem from all over the US and Canada. That being said, our servers are located in Germany and distance does affect ping-time."
------
"Our first release is the European release. The North American release will follow as soon as possible but not until a few months later. We’re allowing players from N. America to participate in the European release due to this fact. Of course we’ll make some allowances for these players if they would like to move to the US server when it launches."
------
"They're right after the European servers, but not soon enough for a lot of players to wait. We don't have a solid date to announce on a N. American server and that's why we're allowing N. American players the option to play on the European server. Ideally we would have loved to be able to launch world-wide but we just don't have the resources to do it right."

---

 

Now try reading carefully. Nowhere does it say free.

Don't go blaming the company just because you have a problem with reading.

 

But you see, they are a company who is providing us a service. They are legally required to inform us of ALL CHARGES before we buy the game. Sure, they did not say they were going to be free - but they did not say that they were going to cost something - and that is the major problem. That is something they are required by law (in america, at least) to prevent fraud. By them choosing to not inform us, they commited fraud - which is why the credit card companies are already aware of the problems when you talk to them and immediately offer a refund when they hear the name Adventurine.

For the people saying there will be free transfers you only have to wait 3 months - check again. They specifically said "for a fee".

Besides, this is a seperate issue, because in what you pasted you could see that they straight up told us we will be able to change servers "when it launches" - not 3 months later. As you could tell by the number of players in game dropping dramatically as soon as they madea their announcement, a very large portion of the population quit the game becuase they would not have even bought the game if AV did not hold back this information for months.

You can try to defend them if you want, but no matter what you say, it still does not change the fact that they do shady business practices by not informing us of the information that would prevent us from playing, and by not informing us of the "possible" additional costs before release, they commited fraud.

People talk badly all the time about Blizzard and SOE, but even they never stooped this low.

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Originally posted by chokepoint

 

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Originally posted by Wardrop

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Originally posted by chokepoint

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Originally posted by Ozmodan

 

Typical Aventurine, promised a free transfer, then backed out of it.  Can't trust them to keep any promises.  As to the cheating and exploiting, it is still prolific, soon as they patch one exploit, players find 3 more. 
Aventurine has to be up there for one of the worst MMO companies in the genre.

---

 
They never said it would be free. The problem here is not Aventurine, it's people like you who do not read what is said.
Back on topic, how is the NA release going? Seems like the opposite of the horribad EU launch this time, nothing but happy gamers.
 

---

Accually it was on the closed beta forums and on the main forums. So it people like you that dont even play the game that allow companies to pull this type of switch on its player base.
Again, i choose with my wallet. and the wallet is god.

---

This is what they actually said:

 

 

---

"Players in North America are welcome to participate in the European Launch. The plans for US servers aren’t finalized at the time of this announcement. We will offer the option for character migration to US servers for N. American players who wish to use it. We have had people playing without problem from all over the US and Canada. That being said, our servers are located in Germany and distance does affect ping-time."
------
"Our first release is the European release. The North American release will follow as soon as possible but not until a few months later. We’re allowing players from N. America to participate in the European release due to this fact. Of course we’ll make some allowances for these players if they would like to move to the US server when it launches."
------
"They're right after the European servers, but not soon enough for a lot of players to wait. We don't have a solid date to announce on a N. American server and that's why we're allowing N. American players the option to play on the European server. Ideally we would have loved to be able to launch world-wide but we just don't have the resources to do it right."

---

 

Now try reading carefully. Nowhere does it say free.

Don't go blaming the company just because you have a problem with reading.

 

 

But you see, they are a company who is providing us a service. They are legally required to inform us of ALL CHARGES before we buy the game. Sure, they did not say they were going to be free - but they did not say that they were going to cost something - and that is the major problem. That is something they are required by law (in america, at least) to prevent fraud. By them choosing to not inform us, they commited fraud - which is why the credit card companies are already aware of the problems when you talk to them and immediately offer a refund when they hear the name Adventurine.

For the people saying there will be free transfers you only have to wait 3 months - check again. They specifically said "for a fee".

Besides, this is a seperate issue, because in what you pasted you could see that they straight up told us we will be able to change servers "when it launches" - not 3 months later. As you could tell by the number of players in game dropping dramatically as soon as they madea their announcement, a very large portion of the population quit the game becuase they would not have even bought the game if AV did not hold back this information for months.

You can try to defend them if you want, but no matter what you say, it still does not change the fact that they do shady business practices by not informing us of the information that would prevent us from playing, and by not informing us of the "possible" additional costs before release, they commited fraud.

People talk badly all the time about Blizzard and SOE, but even they never stooped this low.

Uh, yeah, they did. Selling me the Trial of Obi-Wan expansion and then a week later telling me the game will be drastically changed. Changes that they knew about for months in advance. Changes they knew that had a high possibility of me not buying the ToOW expansion and even canceling my account. That's fraud to a degree.

Granted, after some jumping through hoops they gave us a few days window to get refunds, which I did and then promptly cancelled my accounts (3) after my expansion charges were refunded (3).

*disclaimer: Not defending AV.

For those of you who are twisting things around saying we were not scammed, we simply do not know how to read, here are my thoughts.

1) Adventurine INVITED NA customers to play on EU1 until NA1 launch. NOWHERE was it stated we would be BUYING EU1 and than have to  BUY NA1 once it was launched.

2) Adventurine made it very clear at the time that the client would allow for ONE CHARACTER PER SERVER. 

By inviting NA players to play on EU1 until NA1 launched, and by stating the client would allow for ONE CHARACTER PER SERVER, and than at the last minute changing it to ONE CHARACTER PER CLIENT, Adventurine has in fact lied to us. 

This is not an issue of people not comprehending how to read. The issue is deception. When you deceive someone into buying a product stating that it is one thing  (one character per server) and than tell them it is something different (one character per client)  AFTER they have bought it this is called FRAUD.

I had fun in this game, a LOT of fun. I give credit to Adventurine for how far they have come in stabilizing the game since launch. I think for PvP centric games Darkfall has the potential of being one of the greatest games yet. But as soon as they told us we would have to pay for another client I cancelled my sub. I will NEVER pay for a game twice when I was told one character per server, no matter how good the game gets.

For those of you stating people just don't know how to read, this isn't rocket science, quit twisting things around.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Originally posted by chokepoint

 

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Originally posted by Wardrop

---

Originally posted by chokepoint

---

Originally posted by Ozmodan

 

Typical Aventurine, promised a free transfer, then backed out of it.  Can't trust them to keep any promises.  As to the cheating and exploiting, it is still prolific, soon as they patch one exploit, players find 3 more. 
Aventurine has to be up there for one of the worst MMO companies in the genre.

---

 
They never said it would be free. The problem here is not Aventurine, it's people like you who do not read what is said.
Back on topic, how is the NA release going? Seems like the opposite of the horribad EU launch this time, nothing but happy gamers.
 

---

Accually it was on the closed beta forums and on the main forums. So it people like you that dont even play the game that allow companies to pull this type of switch on its player base.
Again, i choose with my wallet. and the wallet is god.

---

This is what they actually said:

 

 

---

"Players in North America are welcome to participate in the European Launch. The plans for US servers aren’t finalized at the time of this announcement. We will offer the option for character migration to US servers for N. American players who wish to use it. We have had people playing without problem from all over the US and Canada. That being said, our servers are located in Germany and distance does affect ping-time."
------
"Our first release is the European release. The North American release will follow as soon as possible but not until a few months later. We’re allowing players from N. America to participate in the European release due to this fact. Of course we’ll make some allowances for these players if they would like to move to the US server when it launches."
------
"They're right after the European servers, but not soon enough for a lot of players to wait. We don't have a solid date to announce on a N. American server and that's why we're allowing N. American players the option to play on the European server. Ideally we would have loved to be able to launch world-wide but we just don't have the resources to do it right."

---

 

Now try reading carefully. Nowhere does it say free.

Don't go blaming the company just because you have a problem with reading.

 

 

But you see, they are a company who is providing us a service. They are legally required to inform us of ALL CHARGES before we buy the game. Sure, they did not say they were going to be free - but they did not say that they were going to cost something - and that is the major problem. That is something they are required by law (in america, at least) to prevent fraud. By them choosing to not inform us, they commited fraud - which is why the credit card companies are already aware of the problems when you talk to them and immediately offer a refund when they hear the name Adventurine.

For the people saying there will be free transfers you only have to wait 3 months - check again. They specifically said "for a fee".

Besides, this is a seperate issue, because in what you pasted you could see that they straight up told us we will be able to change servers "when it launches" - not 3 months later. As you could tell by the number of players in game dropping dramatically as soon as they madea their announcement, a very large portion of the population quit the game becuase they would not have even bought the game if AV did not hold back this information for months.

You can try to defend them if you want, but no matter what you say, it still does not change the fact that they do shady business practices by not informing us of the information that would prevent us from playing, and by not informing us of the "possible" additional costs before release, they commited fraud.

People talk badly all the time about Blizzard and SOE, but even they never stooped this low.

Uh, yeah, they did. Selling me the Trial of Obi-Wan expansion and then a week later telling me the game will be drastically changed. Changes that they knew about for months in advance. Changes they knew that had a high possibility of me not buying the ToOW expansion and even canceling my account. That's fraud to a degree.

Granted, after some jumping through hoops they gave us a few days window to get refunds, which I did and then promptly cancelled my accounts (3) after my expansion charges were refunded (3).

*disclaimer: Not defending AV.

Well, AV sold us something different from what was in the FAQ's at release as well. From "hundreds of dungeons" to "800+ spells", to housing.

Thing is, they did everything I mentioned ON TOP of that.

Then as a cherry on top, they do not even give us refunds.

That's kind of my point - if they did something bad enough that players are canceling their accounts to their business practices, then that just shows how badly AV is messing up considering their business practices are even worse.

Besides, if they -really- wanted to accomodate the NA players, they could have simply gave us refunds of our copy for a copy of the NA version. At least that would show they are trying to "accomodate us at the NA release" like they said they would - because making us pay again to play the first 3 months is completely unacceptable.

Hell, in most MMO's, its rare that new players will even stick with the game for more then 3 months - now they screwed the players so that by the time they get their PAID transfers, they now have to hope that by the time they can do the transfer their friends are still playing. Sucks for them,  but I'm proud to say that I am no longer in the group of players who pays to support this game.

I hope the rest of the players realize the truth about the company they are dealing with before they get screwed again. If you ignore all the signs and continue defending the game after what they did to you, you are asking for what you have coming to you.

Originally posted by lvlanoob

For those of you who are twisting things around saying we were not scammed, we simply do not know how to read, here are my thoughts.

1) Adventurine INVITED NA customers to play on EU1 until NA1 launch. NOWHERE was it stated we would be BUYING EU1 and than have to  BUY NA1 once it was launched.

2) Adventurine made it very clear at the time that the client would allow for ONE CHARACTER PER SERVER. 

By inviting NA players to play on EU1 until NA1 launched, and by stating the client would allow for ONE CHARACTER PER SERVER, and than at the last minute changing it to ONE CHARACTER PER CLIENT, Adventurine has in fact lied to us. 

For those of you stating people just don't know how to read, this isn't rocket science, quit twisting things around.

This kind of behavior really isn't any surprise to anyone who followed Aventurine during the game development.   They treated the community like garbage, why would anyone expect them to treat their players any better.

MMORPGs are more than just the game.   Moreso than any other genre, they are about the company behind the game.    There were those who kept saying  Darkfall should be judged solely as the game and not let Aventurine taint those opinions.   This shows how the game and actions of the company are too closely linked to try anything like that.  

As for AV defenders twisting around the truth and not being able to read, sadly, that comes as no surprise either.  

i read a couple weeks ago that those of us who want to still play the game. i do not. it's a joke. 

but for those who do. will be able to transfer to NA server but not for 2-3 months as they what to give new players a chance to get up in levels so they don't get ganked by all the high leveled characters from the EU servers. 

so you only have to re-buy the game if you want to play this month with a new character.

i've gone back to the long time most fun i've had everquest. with the new lvl 51 server with 50 aa's  . pvp is fun but not when it's 100% warhammer pvp was more fun then darkfall.  darkfalls pvp should be faction race based. not anyone any time. even when crating in a city, that was just dumb.

the city should have npc guards that can one hit hill players who attack there own race. then i'd come back. i did like the open character system. but nothing will ever compare to asheron's call character delelopments

As others have already mentioned. Purchased the game, now the developer wants all NA players to buy the game twice. The most disappointing aspect of this is waiting for a game for years. Even going so far and playing Mount and Blade in beta to get use to the combat system only to have a company try to pull a fast one. Even without my issues with the company, I would be most concerned with how empty the server will be after the first week. The game world is much to large for the interest in whats left of the player community.