| 155 posts found | |
|---|---|
|
7/12/09 7:25:40 PM#121
invoking my right to call you a moron |
|
|
Facing so many enemies at once... alright. 10... 100... 10000 - doesn't matter to me. I am right. That's all I need to go.
First, maye you kick in your brains before posting. If I wanted attention, don't you think I would post something that would catch more... positive response? It is sort of illogical to accuse me of doing this for the attention and at the same time bash me. Unless I were a masochist. You conclude from YOU on me! I do not seek attention, but I do not care if 10.000 call me a fool, when I think I am right and my cause is important.
To most things I don't care to respond, because many posters here showed such apparent lack of both intellectual faculty as well as emotional empathy, that discussing with them is as pointless as discussing with a cow. They just moo out the same thing over and over, they come here for an easy target, and I have no time to play their games. To some arguments who at least seem some rational mind behind I say this: a) Being a straight white male you have NO CLUE what it is not to be. It does take a certain step of empathy, and such things are not quite supported in straight white male America. Maybe you ask around ourside of "gods own country" how US is seen any why. May extend your horizon. If you care for understanding, that is. It takes a certain courage to step outside your narrow world and see things through the eyes of those who are different. b) Why is gay or queer kid unfriendly, when the words straight and hetero are ok? Why should kids be raised unknowing the existence of gay people? We exist. End of story. Like it or not, here we are, everywhere. Ok, not in Iran. Iran's President Achmadinejad has clearly said there are no gay people in Iran. But outside we exist. So what? If those words invoke dirty ideas, it is YOUR problem. When the Black people decided they did not like the N-word, it was their decision, and theirs alone. It isnt up to white people to decide how black people are to be called, no it is merely and alone for black people to decide this. And the same is for gay people. WE have the sole right to decide how we want to be called. We have NOT decided that queer or gay is bad, and you are to respect that. It is OUR name and thus it is OUR decision ALONE what is ok to call us and what isnt, just as it is solely up to black people to say how they want to be named and how not. c) Maybe you look at the MANY obscene depictions of women on game packages and in games and then come back and we talk about kid friendly again. Almost every game is FULL of sexual referrences, but god forbid when it is a male. Making females sexual objects is ok apparently, yes? d) Look at how many posts this thread got, and then tell me again, this entire thing is no issue. If it were, people would ignore it. The very mass of responses tells VOLUMES how much this apparently itches you. Yeah you pretend to be so smug over this "drama", but I tell you, you are frightened out of your pants! People laugh at what they fear and the fear what they hate. That is the core of this. If this was the harmless absurd event you claim, you would ignore it and move on. Nothing betrays a person's weak spot more than what he mocks, and in that I guess I hit you guys all square in the chest. Not that your macho attitude allows you to admit it ever. And yes, women can be macho too.
I don't expect you to understand. [Mod Edit]
|
|
|
7/12/09 8:06:24 PM#123
Firstly the term Queer is derogatory , maybe its not in the US , but any gay people i know get really pissed of if you call them queer. So your whole up in arms they dont want gay gamers is bullshit and you are actually the one who made a offensive name.
|
|
|
7/12/09 8:28:53 PM#124
Originally posted by Geriden Ummm...nope. Queer, unless you are referring to something as strange, is pretty much derogatory in the US when referred to the GLBT community. OP: Gay, straight...you were just being another young asshole trying to rock the boat. You were banned because your name was offensive...to the GLBT COMMUNITY! If you had talked about being gay in-game, and then gotten banned, I'd have sympathy, and in fact, would fight for your cause. A black man doesn't call his brothers "n*gg*r"; He will call them "My niggaz", referring to a common bond of struggle that black men share. There is a big difference between "N*gg*r" and "niggaz", and you would know that if you were an American; so shove that European superiority shite up your ass(and no, that wasn't meant as a gay reference, Mr Sensitivity). You were looking to cause controversy just to massage your own ego, not out of gay pride or whatever lie you might want to fabricate. Most of those in the gay community would disparage the fact that you used the word queer, which was used as much as "faggot" was by rednecks as they would beat gays in the south and elsewhere. How about YOU learn some of the history of GLBT culture in the US, before you try to argue such crap as is in your post. You are just another asshole trying to get a rise out of others. Well, congrats. Judging from the amount of posts here, it worked. |
|
|
7/12/09 8:47:12 PM#125
for the person that said you can sue private companies over the 1st Amendment. Techinically this is true. That the individual did was fail at actually reading the whole of the lawsuits.
The lawsuits are called SLAPP (strategic lawsuits against public participation): (1) involve communications made to influence a government action or outcome, (2) which result in civil lawsuits (complaints, counterclaims, or cross-claims), (3) filed against non-governmental individuals or groups (4) on a substantive issue of some public interest or social significance." These are used against companies all the time for restricting people from saying or doing stuff on private property like work, forum boards, etc. Unfortunately due to 'Eastern Railroad Presidents' Conference v. Noerr Motor Freight, Inc', 'United Mine Workers v. Pennington', and 'City of Columbia v. Omni Outdoor Advertising Inc'. The rulings on these lawsuits has changed in the US Supreme Court. The Court held that SLAPPs should be dismissed in all cases except those in which the target's activities are not genuinely directed at gaining favorable government action. So if you are sueing a company for some political reason...you fail. If you are sueing because the site is a 1)PUBLIC forum open to all and 2) the site blatently censors, discriminates, or harasses you, you can sue. forum boards that force you to join first before posting or are for only a select group that has to elect to join through acceptance of a verbal or non-verbal agreement (as in you have to go to a certain place at a certain time to participate) are excluded. So the game is not a public forum...you must join and accept their rules. These protect them from censoring you as they wish so long as the game remain private. So there is your case law *whip crack* on your government civics classes that some of you should do more than read the cliff notes at. |
|
|
7/12/09 8:49:54 PM#126
Originally posted by Elikal
Good for a laugh. But I think this issue speaks to a more general problem. The homosexual community is diverse. Some will happily label themselves queer while otherwise will take offense to it. And so companies like Cryptic err on the side of caution. To an extent it is silly, but it's possible to enjoy the game without bringing sexuality, sex, politics or religion into the game - and bringing any of the aforementioned into the game is potentially going to upset someone else. |
|
|
7/12/09 8:59:56 PM#127
Originally posted by Elikal Honestly, I doubt you speak for the entire GLBT community. As a matter of fact, I KNOW you don't because some members of the community have posted here that the term is insulting to them. You speak for yourself and that is fine. However, you AGREED to the Terms of Service and the Code of Conduct when you signed up to play Champion's Online. They have the right to put any words they want into their "you cannot use these words" filter. Heck, if I was them, I would add noob, newb, pawn, anything ending in orz, WOW, World of Warcraft, wow-killer, wow-copy, and a whole bunch of other terms too. It is up to them. If you do not like you do not have to play. Champions Online, like every game or forum, is a private community and as such, they can make the rules. As long as those rules do not violate federal or state law, it is okay. For example, you move into a community with a Homeowner's Association. That HA says you cannot have a blue trashcan or a red mailbox. You can get mad all you want but you, by signing that HA and moving into that community, agreed to abide by the rules. You have very little legal leg to stand on. The same applies here. You may think its your choice to name your character what you want but it is not. You give up that right by playing the game and clicking on that TOS/COC. This why games that are directed towards kids (like Wizard 101) has a set name generator. This is their way of making sure every character has a name that they approve. My advice to you is that if you are truly this upset, you should speak directly to Champion's Online developers and take up your argument with them. Posting about such a major issue on a general gaming forum gets you nowhere and the debate will go in circles with no resolution. |
|
|
7/12/09 9:02:08 PM#128
I can't believe this thread is still going. |
|
|
7/12/09 9:02:52 PM#129
Originally posted by Nicksd That's whats going through my mind. Currently restarting World of Warcraft :/ |
|
|
7/12/09 9:06:45 PM#130
It doesnt take a genius to figure out queer has been deemed a derogatory term. Would be little to no different than trying to name yourself a nigger because your black. This post is nothing more than making a big deal over nothing and is a huge reason why "straight" America views most gays as nothing more than attention getters. |
|
|
7/12/09 9:14:11 PM#131
Originally posted by wayubb
i think gay parades hurt your cause as gay people more then it helps, tbh.... you should avoid those in my opinion... go google search "gay parade" , it looks like the circus |
|
|
7/12/09 9:20:06 PM#132
Originally posted by Elikal Ummm, who elected you the GLBT president? You do not speak for me....I speak for myself and I find the word offensive. You were wrong. Cryptic was right. Thread can close now... |
|
|
7/12/09 9:20:49 PM#133
I can't believe this thread is still going. |
|
|
7/12/09 9:30:31 PM#134
Originally posted by Vinterkrig
i think gay parades hurt your cause as gay people more then it helps, tbh.... you should avoid those in my opinion... go google search "gay parade" , it looks like the circus
I have an uncle who is gay as can be, but he hates gay guys who dress up in tight clothes and parade around their homosexuality like it was a fasion statement rather than a sexual preferance.
He recently went to a homosexual convention with his "Husband" who is one of the more Paradie type, and after an hour and a half in front of like a few hundred people yelled "I hate you fags" and walked out. To this day he will never go back to one with his husband. He works on cars, he listens to rock and roll and he dresses like your average Joe. I had a gay friend who said "He doesnt LOOK gay" and I thought "how does that work?!" Do I have to Dress a certain way to look straight? My uncle is a proud homosexual and has voted against many bills trying to be passed to get rid of certain rights for gays. To me he is a "Real" gay person, he doesnt have to flaunt it to be gay, he doesnt have to go on forums and make posts like this to get extra attention, I know if I told him about this he would laugh and find it appauling.
This also reminds me of an actor who was a guest on Conan o Brian. He started off saying "Conan Im straight agian!" and he goes on to say about how back in day it was "Sheik to be gay, now its too common, its not fun anymore". Which is what happened alot of people saw it as a trend, that doesnt mean there isnt real gay people out their, there is tons, but the media and the ones who post things like this, give them all a bad image.
-Jive
|
|
|
7/12/09 9:34:19 PM#135
Two words. Drama Queen Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA, LOTRO... |
|
|
7/12/09 9:34:21 PM#136
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Lol. I wonder what all those people there were thinking when he said that. |
|
|
7/12/09 9:39:20 PM#137
Originally posted by Nicksd
Lol. I wonder what all those people there were thinking when he said that.
most likely "wow, even our own kind hate us" |
|
|
7/12/09 9:50:29 PM#138
It is a story whose topic may be know to you. Banning gay people from MMOs. The story is simple enough. I created a character called "Qweer Cop", looking like a Cop. Now my character was forcibly renamed, telling me it was harrasment against sexual orientation. Before you get your knickers in a knot over what you perceive to be a personal slight, feel free to remove the fishbowl from your head. The GMs and/or CMs don't know you from any other faceless gamer in the game. You are one out of, what, hundreds? Maybe thousands? How do they tell you apart from a griefer trying to get a rise out of people? The simple answer, as always, is that they can't, and rather than spend hours trying to agonize over whether or not to make an exception for one, little person, they simply decide to do the sensible thing: apply the rules to you as equally as to everyone else. You may mind the irony, that a gay gamer (me!) is "protected" from being harrased by calling himself gay. You may or may may not share my idea of freedom that I can call a character as I want, but pretending to protect ME, by banning my own self-descption is in every way the height of absurdity. Except that a video game isn't a soapbox for your rhetoric. They have to water down a whole lot of things in order to satisfy the sensibilities of the most people. This is exactly what happened here. Rather than trying to create double standards about who can use certain words or terms or whatever, they just said, "Hey, no making character names that reference sexuality. Move along." The fact is, you just have a chip on your shoulder and want to be exceptional. Sorry, but if you wanted to be shout your pet cause to the world, there are just about exactly one ho-jillion forums, chat rooms, and organizations out there for you to do that at. If you honestly play video games for any reason other than pure entertainment, I can not help but think you are in store for even more disappointment later. I posted a post in the Beta Forum, *kindly* and *reasonably* asking that it was wrong to forbid my character to be named like that. The Tems of Service just mention usage of sexual orientation is only forbidden, when it is used in a derogatory way, which I as gay gamer myself, can't. I mean I AM GAY. Prove it. Prove you are gay to someone who can't even see or hear you. Prove you are even a man using just text in a chat interface. You know all those stories about people posing as the opposite sex, about people getting into RL drama because they have little MMO cyber-affairs and never mention they are married with two kids, etc.? There's a reason that stuff happens. It's because (gasp) nobody can prove they are anything online. It's all smoke and mirrors. So once again, we come back to the lowest common denomenator. You can't prove anything about being gay and not being some random douchewaffle trying to offend others. So you get an impersonal whack of the rod of authority, and they don't even have the decency to ask pretty please if you'll consider renaming, maybe after they bring you breakfast in bed. It must have been terrible to realize you weren't nearly as important as you thought you were. I can call MYSELF as I want. Freedom of Speech in USA used to be an absolute, but apparently in 2009 it just means "Freedom of Speech to say what I agree to". There goes the land of the Free. Obviously you either haven't completed high school, or you have a lamentable ignorance of your rights as a citizen of the U.S. "Free speech" means that the government isn't allowed to infringe upon your ability to speak your mind to the public. However, you make a classic mistake in assuming that the internet is somehow a public forum. Allow me to rectify this assumption: it isn't. Forums, chat rooms, etc., all are privately-owned segments. Unless the government rubber stamps the funding, administration, and policies of Champions Online, they have no truck in what the company running it decides to do. Let me simplify this one for the kids at home. Visiting a message board like this one is like visiting someone's house. If you go there and insult and belittle the owner, he can't have you arrested or fined for it. But he can damn sure kick you out, or refuse to give you milk and cookies. Your rights do not supercede the rights of others. You can proclaim you are gay all you want... but the minute you ask for special treatment, you aren't asking for equality. You're asking for privillege. Freedom of speech automatically comes with the freedom to ignore things that are spoken. You exercised the former, and Champions Online exercise the latter. You don't like it, you can always quit playing. That is also your right: the right not to associate with people that truly offend you. I am ired about the fact they forbade "Qweer Cop" - I used a hero called "Qweer Avenger" in City of Heroes for YEARS, and not a single moment anyone cared. Then go play that game. Let your money do the talking. Trying to make a federal case out of a video game puts you right on par ethically with Jack Thompson. Nor is the word "Queer" genuinely sexal, as if I had called the char "Assbang Anvenger". It is a matter of identity. And it was a simply fun char, either way. The matter is, when in a forum a reasonable debat isnt just locked, it is deleted, and all the effort from both side are nullified.
Except that it is sexual in nature, by your own admission. You used it out of fun, got banned like people who use it to be offensive, then suddenly it was personal? You just want to have your way. That's all there is to it. Everything else is justification to get a name that nobody else of any other sexual orientation is allowed to have anyway. The hypocrisy of the entire OP is starting to tell as we go along here. I understand most of you won't care. I know most of you won't care rat's ass about my pain about being made invisivle and being harrassed by a company. But even tho I know they will likely win and I won't, I must fight this fight. It is to acknowledge what I am - what we gay gamers are. We are once more forbidden even our very own name!
Oh, I care, actually. I care that a few gamers are using my freaking hobby just to parade around their personal issues so that they can try to make me care. Because I sure as hell don't pay every month to get preached at. If I wanted some anonymous stranger to tell me how bad of a person I was and then ask to be paid for the privilege, I'd just assume go to a Baptist church and drop a few bucks into the collection plate. As for your internet activisim, I refer you to the wise words of Penny Arcade (with the most pertinent statement in bold): "People seem to think that by posting in threads and agreeing with other people they are changing the world. They are not. They are posting in threads online. The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. Being outraged online is a form of entertainment, and refreshing a thread to receive a hit of consensus packs the thrill of genuine activism without requiring any sweat." And tho it may not credit me as a serious or sober person by your definition - I spit my hate of despise against Cryptic. Hell's own fire is not as hot as my anger against you. Know that I am entirely honest and serious in saying this: from the depth of my heart I wish Cryptic curse and doom. If you want, I can buy you a phone card. You know, so you can call someone who cares. |
|
|
7/12/09 10:05:48 PM#139
Originally posted by Vrazule
Prove this. I call bvllsh1t on this.
Did you ever take a government class? They teach you on day one that the Constitution is the Law of the Land. The entire purpose of the Supreme Court is to defend and interpret the Constitution and the court system is to ensure everyone abides by it as well. Anything that a corporation or individual does that is un-constitutional can be challenged and taken to court, doesn't matter if it's on a bulletin board or in a computer game or in the confines of your own home.
I would love to see you take something like that into a court of law.
Alright, if we have to play this game, the Constitution is the law of the land, but it normally respects the rights of private property. These virtual worlds are private property, and as such, by signing the TOS, you agree to the rules of this property, and thus agree to play by their rules.
But, you cannot truly apply the rules of the constitution to the rules of a virtual world or virtual property, and the US courts of law really have no precedent in dealing with such. So your whole arguement of trying to apply what you learned in government class does not really apply here, now does it?
If you are going to bring an arguement like this up as a matter of fact, you need to provide facts/links, not just some statement of, "Did you ever take government class?"
Yeah, I took government, and guess what cupcake, MMOs were not mentioned. They must have just forgot that chapter, right?
So seriously, talk to the guy who had his character name banned, you two go to a court of law, present your case, and come back here and tell me just how far you got with the constitution and the name change.
Here is your fine line, the slippery slope as it were with the law of the land, my final foray into your game of applying the constitution to this arguement and please tell me the social importance of being able to use a name in video game that many might find offensive or dare I say, obscene (I mean, since you obviously want to argue Freedom of Speech, you must be all for him using that name):
Obscenity
However, this function is not the reason why obscenity is outside the protection of the First Amendment, although the Court has never really been clear about what that reason is.
Adjudication over the constitutional law of obscenity began in Roth v. United States,1082 in which the Court in an opinion by Justice Brennan settled in the negative the “dispositive question” “whether obscenity is utterance within the area of protected speech and press.”1083 The Court then undertook a brief historical survey to demonstrate that “the unconditional phrasing of the First Amendment was not intended to protect every utterance.” All or practically all of the States that ratified the First Amendment had laws making blasphemy or profanity or both crimes, and provided for prosecutions of libels as well. It was this history that had caused the Court in Beauharnais to conclude that “libelous utterances are not within the area of constitutionally protected speech,” and this history was deemed to demonstrate that “obscenity, too, was outside the protection intended for speech and press.”1084 “The protection given speech and press was fashioned to assure unfettered interchange of ideas for the bringing about of political and social changes desired by the people .... All ideas having even the slightest redeeming social importance—unorthodox ideas, controversial ideas, even ideas hateful to the prevailing climate of opinion—have the full protection of the guaranties, unless excludable because they encroach upon the limited area of more important interests. But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance.”1085 It was objected that obscenity legislation punishes because of incitation to impure thoughts and without proof that obscene materials create a clear and present danger of antisocial conduct. But since obscenity was not protected at all, such tests as clear and present danger were irrelevant.1086 |
|
|
7/12/09 11:47:20 PM#140
Originally posted by Wyldsong Though it didn't make it to court, someone did threaten Blizzard with legal action after they banished her character for publicising a gay guild on a recruitment channel, because, they claimed, she was violating the ToS simply by using the word "gay" in a public channel. The view that Lambda legal took was that an online world qualified as a place of business and that argument seemed to hold weight. Blizzard reversed their position, apologised to the player and wrote the incident off as an unfortunate misinterpretation of their ToS by some of their staff. I don't agree with the OP's position - because as stated earlier in this thread, I think it's possible to enjoy the game without bringing sex, politics or religion into it, and in too many cases those things will cause offense to other players. |
|