Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

Originally posted by Trucidation

By developer do you mean programmer? Because I see nothing technically difficult in those objectives, over half of them are trivial chat addons. Hell, many of them are already in existing MMORPGs, scattered here and there. Give us a reason, what exactly don't you like instead of some vague "unachievable" crap.

The only thing I haven't seen is the dedicated staff part, because this is where most companies don't allocate resources. Then you wonder why the community turns to shit. That's because all the good players leave when they see they aren't getting any help, so you're left with the constant trickling in and out of the casuals and the griefers, which leads to the inevitable spiral of fail and closing of doors a year later.

 

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry at the responses to this article.  The author succeeded in placing the guilt by association on the entire roleplaying spectrum, simply because a few stick-in-the-mud roleperformers can't take it when someone interrupts their wedding.

I am sure that some of the items on the list are achievable and already existent in some MMO somewhere.  The biggies, however, were slipped into the list in disguise because the author knew that many self-important RPers would take no objection to them:

1) Dedicated event team:  Huh?  Why?  As soon as one minority gets dev attention, they will all want dev attention.  The object is not to make more work for yourself as a developer, it's to make less.  Roleplaying does that by entertaining itself, simply through application of game tools.  You make the tools for the sandbox, the roleplayers will play.

Why? Because they can crank out multitudes of various events in game, giving NPC cities "life" by holding festivals and carnivals, holding criminal trials of NPC (heck, even PC) characters, in general doing "daily life" events that would be "normally happening" in civilized settings of peoples. You can sit there and take it in a narrow focused, "doing the event for small groups of people" way, but you are only displaying a limited ability of thought/imagination. Nothing wrong with having this on top of the sandbox tools.

2) Item creation:  Huh?  Why?  Roleplayers should consider themselves a part of the game world and should use the same economy and crafting system that everyone else uses.  If you need a hundred special hats, you should craft them - assuming the game is sandboxy enough for that to occur.

Item creation falls in line with sandbox tools. The whole idea of giving players the ability to put their imaginations/roleplaying to work through the ability to create the appropriate props to facilitate it. Yes, a really in-depth, "wide view" crafting system chock full of non-combat aiding craftables would accomplish this too. The trouble is, outside of SWG and maybe ATITD, no game has come near this point.

3) Community specialist approval on all names:  No, completely unnecessary.  In a game with a significant roleplaying population, you just created several full-time positions for no real reason at all.  The better way is to simply not have names dangling in mid-air, or to make it so that /ignore makes someone completely invisible.

No, it's not. Players have proven time and again (and I know, I play on RP servers and I see them running around) that they are "creative enough" to come up with spellings and phrases to bypass the standard naming filter. Names should be names, for one. Not phrases or little cutesy plays on words (on an RP server that is). Even when games provide cultural information about the character races and give that races naming conventions, you still are guaranteed to see people who don't follow them. So no, if a company is willing to provide the staff to monitor this, and charge a few dollars more for characters on that server, then by all means it should be done. They make their money, their players are happy and players like you who disagree with it can play on a regular non-RP server. Win win.

The people who responded and said they thought the article was good fell into a trap and helped the author drive roleplaying out of the genre.  All the non-roleplayers reading this thread are going to look at the points made and the list of RP requirements, see the responses, and say... "Yup, that is way too much work for what it is worth."

No. Most people who agreed and have been playing MMOs for 5+ years and like the idea of RP servers have been requesting options like these for years and years. and as far as it being too much effort for what it is worth, the happiness of as many customers as you can achieve is very much worth the effort around 5 event team members and 2 community name specialist to implement this.

Another interesting read from you and while there are some areas i disagree with, your writing style puts across your points in a decent manner

Having played a few MMOs on RP servers, some policed heavily some not, I do agree having a team of CS who understand the ruleset and likely minds of players on these servers is a good thing, not having a OOC channel at all isnt such a important thing

While dev run live events are great (and pretty rare) i guess this comes down to how many servers are running, if its 2 or 3 sure live events are possible and really a needed thing in many games both on the RP and normal servers, if the game is a "success"/running many servers i can sort of understand how dev live events are going to be harder to achieve without some sort of backlash from the community as a whole - player run events on the other hand should be more supported, there are some great minds out there for fun,interesting, deep etc etc storys/games which giving the players the right tools would be a huge benefit to the game

The players can and often do take pride in the RP servers, so having a team of CS checking all player/guild names really is not needed, let the players find the rule breaking names and report them surely this would be a much easier system

I also think a player volunteer CS program is under estimated by most of the dev companies, while that doesnt appeal to me, in those games who have it, it seems to be a very good way of bolstering the CS/storytelling etc in a semi offiicial way, which works very well

I wont nit pick at the article anymore but thanks for your views and some insider information from a few company "big wigs"

I'm going to stray a bit from the articles - Yes gaming itself is an escape as is RP, but.....

   If I were to apply my focus to how much gear I can get or how fast can I buff my stats to kill the next guy then what's the point? I could do that at home on a console. After watching many gamestyles and players the RP gamers actually tend to be the most mentally stable group unlike the players who are all about the gear and PVP. Yes, RP is about gear to the extent of "If I were this character what would he be wearing, carrying, doing". Can't tell you how many times I've seen  "hardcore gamers" (loose term)  fly into a rage for no reason or get discouraged because they didn't get immediate gratification. From experience that type of gamer typically has no drive in life itself and seeks an easy way to get ahead without having to do anything. You could assume teenager, but I've seen grown men who definitely fit this category living in mom's basement or the faux bachelor pad crawling with cockroaches. Physical fitness is out of the question and their attitudes are miserable.

After reading both articles in the end isn't it RP really about immersion in something we can't truly experience in this reality? Something any gamer is really doing when they sit down at a system or console.

  The RP players I've met aren't all "care bears". Some in fact experience the same rage issues as hardcore gamers, but they at least are expressing the anger in a healthy way through a character in a fantasy world (RP is used succesfully in the psychiatry field). They experience the same excitement in character building as  other gamers, but it's more a matter of satisfaction in seeing this new beings life fulfilled rather than gratification and let's move on to the next perk. Yes RP servers are great because the naming is more restrictive, the channels are less cluttered, if you're not rp'ing you can beremoved from most servers on excessive reports and no not everyone will approach you and go all "care bear". In fact  it takes a while of popping up on some servers before anyone does notice you.

Both articles did what they were supposed to and evoked an emotional reaction from many. Do RP servers require more work and maintenance or don't they? I feel they do and some of you expressed valid points on other servers where they don't. I feel it helps as a solid foundation for fledgling RP servers to do such though to attract the type of player on that server. I also believe RP players are the most financially beneficial in the long run for a company. They tend to have such level of involvement with a character that they'll keep returning years later to check in on them like an old friend (or mental baggage deposit depending upon your state of mind). They tend to be dedicated gamers rather than flitting off to the next FPS for achievements. Someone should do an article though on how these things play out internationally. A number of games (LOTRO,Conan,Witcher,etc)  that have a strong history and RP focus tend to do extremely well overseas and in the UK where they may see marginal success in the US. Is it just that we're shallow minded Americans in the end and lack the maturity and emotional intelligence for quality gaming?

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Why? Because they can crank out multitudes of various events in game, giving NPC cities "life" by holding festivals and carnivals, holding criminal trials of NPC (heck, even PC) characters, in general doing "daily life" events that would be "normally happening" in civilized settings of peoples. You can sit there and take it in a narrow focused, "doing the event for small groups of people" way, but you are only displaying a limited ability of thought/imagination. Nothing wrong with having this on top of the sandbox tools.

As you pointed out, these are simply game events that make the setting more real.  If a company wants to go to the expense of an event team to increase the verisimilitude of their game, that is somewhat different than events aimed purely at groups of dedicated roleplayers.  While certainly dedicated roleplayers would benefit from the increased verisimilitude, saying that such would be a requisite for their gameplay is going way too far, and the events would really be more of an enticement for the rest of the playerbase to become more dedicated to realism and roleplay.   Some of these events could be done via structured coding that is randomly spawned, without the need for a human event controller.

In this thread, we're talking about the things that are manditory for roleplay to be worthwhile.  Remember?

Item creation falls in line with sandbox tools. The whole idea of giving players the ability to put their imaginations/roleplaying to work through the ability to create the appropriate props to facilitate it. Yes, a really in-depth, "wide view" crafting system chock full of non-combat aiding craftables would accomplish this too. The trouble is, outside of SWG and maybe ATITD, no game has come near this point.

Again, is this manditory?

No, it's not. Players have proven time and again (and I know, I play on RP servers and I see them running around) that they are "creative enough" to come up with spellings and phrases to bypass the standard naming filter. Names should be names, for one. Not phrases or little cutesy plays on words (on an RP server that is). Even when games provide cultural information about the character races and give that races naming conventions, you still are guaranteed to see people who don't follow them. So no, if a company is willing to provide the staff to monitor this, and charge a few dollars more for characters on that server, then by all means it should be done. They make their money, their players are happy and players like you who disagree with it can play on a regular non-RP server. Win win.

A roleplayer dedicated to realism in their stories would ask why it's even necessary to have nametags.  In the real world we go by appearance, people do not wear nametags everywhere they go.  In the 3D graphical, highly customizable worlds of modern MMOs it seems to me that we have reached the stage where nametags should be dropped alltogether and you should have to ask someone their name in order to get it.

IMO, you are asking for something here that actually detracts from roleplay, and is most certainly not a requirement.

No. Most people who agreed and have been playing MMOs for 5+ years and like the idea of RP servers have been requesting options like these for years and years. and as far as it being too much effort for what it is worth, the happiness of as many customers as you can achieve is very much worth the effort around 5 event team members and 2 community name specialist to implement this.

Not everyone has agreed to these requirements in this thread.  I've been playing online roleplaying games for almost 20 years, and I don't agree.  If you and others who have agreed feel that these items are actually requirements for a successful roleplay experience, then know that I and a few others stand apart.

Just as a general response to a lot of posts in this thread, I think many roleplayers here don't really understand the current nature of MMOs anymore.  They are acting like wet, uncomfortable puppy dogs that have been kicked out into the rain temporarily and are making small noises so that their masters will realize it and let them back in.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, MMOs are big business.  The design team and art budgets are astronomical.  Subscribers can range into the hundreds of thousands of people, and even that is considered a failure.

This web site is not about little Mom and Pop roleplaying shops.  It's about the focus of a massive industry that could get even larger, if it doesn't castrate itself.  I think the future is roleplay and realism.  Others think it is commercialism and pecking orders.  The truth is that without the realism and roleplay, the commercialism and pecking orders simply immitate a life that most of us already know and dislike.

I disagree with the article.

Personally i think that any MMORPG that has a significant ammount of shards/servers absolutly needs a dedicated roleplaying server, otherwise finding other people to roleplay with becomes pretty much impossible. And roleplaying is really not a solo activity.

And no you don't need everything on that list, not even close. You need a server that has "Roleplay" in the name, and you need GMs that will intervene if anyone actively harasses roleplayers. As long as the roleplaying community is large enough, it will happen on it's own.

Yes people who can't stand a word of OOC on any channel, or who will have a seizure if they see IPWNYou hunting boars in the distance, will never be satisfied, but there's plenty of people who realise that just as MMO combat is not D&D dice combat, MMO roleplay is not the same as D&D roleplay, you need to chill a bit and have fun pretending to be your character, and not expect other people to play along with your scripts.

The only game that can cater to Roleplaying fans are games exactly like NWN and NWN2.   This is the only game at retail that really caters toward Roleplayers.  Why exactly?

Because player made worlds using the building tools NWN offers allows people to create and really change the world.  Want to start a band of rebels that take down the militia the main city?  That is all possible in player made worlds who can change things at will.

So I will agree, That there really is no sense in MMORPG's having Roleplaying servers, especially since they don't enforce roleplay.  Roleplaying should be an actual community within the server itself, not a whole seperate server that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

As you pointed out, these are simply game events that make the setting more real.  If a company wants to go to the expense of an event team to increase the verisimilitude of their game, that is somewhat different than events aimed purely at groups of dedicated roleplayers.  While certainly dedicated roleplayers would benefit from the increased verisimilitude, saying that such would be a requisite for their gameplay is going way too far, and the events would really be more of an enticement for the rest of the playerbase to become more dedicated to realism and roleplay.   Some of these events could be done via structured coding that is randomly spawned, without the need for a human event controller.

In this thread, we're talking about the things that are manditory for roleplay to be worthwhile.  Remember?

Again, you continue to think from the frame of view of aiming at small groups of "dedicated roleplayers" and I'm talking from the point of "services" available to any roleplayer on a RP server. I'm not concerned about other servers (as adding such functions to all Regular PvE and PvP flagged servers would be pointless. Players there for the most part don't look for those extras and just want to "play a game". And again, I don't think you can list anywhere in this column where I stated Sanya's list was manditory for anyone. I stated that it is a doable list (which it is) and that such a list of options would entice me to spend more for a monthly subscription than the standard $15. I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one who would do so, which was proven by others in this thread.

I understand you may be content with structured coding, but I and others think it's time for companies to begin implementing more human generated dynamic content. Human company paid employees who go over story arcs with the writing team and the take on roles as key players in the game world and help drive the story.

Again, is this manditory?

For you, no. For others it is something that is desired as we are just plain tired of riding rails from quest hub to quest hub doing the same kill quests ad infinum. MMOs for the most part are hack-n-slash, tear things down over and over. Paying more attention to the building/creation things (and no, I'm not talking your typical crafting of items that aid in combat), and more positive, non-destructive cooperative gameplay mechanics and systems is sorely missed in this genre.

Is this manditory? No, not in every game. But as it stands, it isn't in any game in a cohesive and broad manner. Worlds should be made like this to offer more options and if some don't want to participate in them, then they have the current crop of games to fall to for play.

A roleplayer dedicated to realism in their stories would ask why it's even necessary to have nametags.  In the real world we go by appearance, people do not wear nametags everywhere they go.  In the 3D graphical, highly customizable worlds of modern MMOs it seems to me that we have reached the stage where nametags should be dropped alltogether and you should have to ask someone their name in order to get it.

IMO, you are asking for something here that actually detracts from roleplay, and is most certainly not a requirement.

Nametags...if a game is going to use them, then I stick by what I have said above. I'm not against a game doing away with the tags above player's characters. It would be nice to be able to click a button which allows a player you have targeted to click on you moving forward and have a pop-up that displays you name, sure. Of a practical nature, however, companies would need to incorporate valid methods to identify players for harrassment reports and TOS violation reports, etc. Names are an easy way to do it currently. If they continue to be something that you assign at generation and something that can be displayed, then on an RP server that has naming convention rules, it needs to be enforced. 

And again, the server isn't intelligent enough to see the little cutesy plays on words/phrases players try to use. Only another human being can and if a company is offering the naming convention feature, then it should make good on that promise/offer' implementation.

Not everyone has agreed to these requirements in this thread.  I've been playing online roleplaying games for almost 20 years, and I don't agree.  If you and others who have agreed feel that these items are actually requirements for a successful roleplay experience, then know that I and a few others stand apart.

I doubt you will find anything on this earth that everyone will agree on. I've never had an expectation to have everyone agree with my viewpoint, lol! That's absurd. What I have said, though you have interpretted in your own way, is that the items offered in Sanya's list are for me (and it seems others) "terms" for a roleplay server that I would indeed like to see in play. That list generates in me a feeling of the creation of an environment in which I would like to game/RP in. I never said anyone else had to agree with me or that this is the only way to do it. I just stated that I liked it. Pure and simple.

As I've said before, in my view RP servers on just about every game have been unsupported game mechanic-wise and live team wise. Sanya's list bolsters that support (giving more tools for RPers to implement the events they imagine as well as having a live team to drive the storyline through in character interaction) and adding 5 event team members and 2 community team members per RP server (and most games only have 1-2 RP servers as is) is not going to "break the bank" of the company. Especially if they are charging more/month for access to those servers.

 

Roleplay in MMOs has nothing to do with all that bullshit you think is required. RP has functioned without it in the past - The key is a game based on freedom of choice and interaction. If a game is on rails then there's no significant roleplaying to be had.

"Customizable faction and resource objectives run the risk of increasing complexity."

Oh noes, heaven forbid that the players be required to think!

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

...and adding 5 event team members and 2 community team members per RP server (and most games only have 1-2 RP servers as is) is not going to "break the bank" of the company. Especially if they are charging more/month for access to those servers.
 

 I'll refrain from readdressing the rest of the post, but you might want to go back and notice that you replied to a post of mine where I was posting in reply to someone else.  It has gotten us on different wavelengths.

Assuming 7 people can handle the needs of 5,000 to 10,000 people on a roleplaying server cluster, you are still looking at more than a $20/month subscription just talking gross salary and benefits.

Events also have many other problems associated with them, the most noteworthy being latency, customization to the players, participation, and additional art/engineering needed to pull them off.

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

...and adding 5 event team members and 2 community team members per RP server (and most games only have 1-2 RP servers as is) is not going to "break the bank" of the company. Especially if they are charging more/month for access to those servers.
 

 I'll refrain from readdressing the rest of the post, but you might want to go back and notice that you replied to a post of mine where I was posting in reply to someone else.  It has gotten us on different wavelengths.

Assuming 7 people can handle the needs of 5,000 to 10,000 people on a roleplaying server cluster, you are still looking at more than a $20/month subscription just talking gross salary and benefits.

Events also have many other problems associated with them, the most noteworthy being latency, customization to the players, participation, and additional art/engineering needed to pull them off.

Well I'll chime in that before something really irritating happened I was on "The Interest Team" for Ultima Online.  Each server had a dedicated volunteer team Seer, Elder, Troubs, Ancients (supervisors) and there were two Interest Game Masters (paid employees) that did all the back and forth between the volunteer teams and "the company".

I'm not going into why that went away to long and off topic and wasn't really related to The Interest Team regardless.

Its already been done as far as having dedicated groups on every server, that did server specific content.  As well as Official Events that were the same for all servers (run by IGM's with help from Volunteers).

As to the topic.  You know what the biggest problem with RP servers is?  They magnify the problem that pisses me off the most with MMO's.  You have this wonderful ToS/Eula thing that you agree to... and its like a contract.  Yet its a one sided contract... If they choose to enforce it then you might get a ban.  Yet they don't usually enforce it.

RP servers have higher petition rates because people want the ToS/Eula enforced.  I know its an amazing concept and all.

Roleplayers are NOT 10% of the gaming population (that's pvp actually).  Roleplayers who actually ask for a dedicated RP server may make up 10% of the RP Community.  We never had "role play" servers in UO and there was more role-play going on in UO than I've ever seen on a "rp server".

Then again that's just me and my experience.  I haven't worked for a company in that industry since late 2005 when I started my current company... so the numbers may have changed.

UO had a great rp community.  I was a counselor and I had some good friends who were seers.  They managed to put on some truely unique events.  Unfortunately a few had to ruin it for the many because of labor dept. rules.

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

...and adding 5 event team members and 2 community team members per RP server (and most games only have 1-2 RP servers as is) is not going to "break the bank" of the company. Especially if they are charging more/month for access to those servers.
 

 I'll refrain from readdressing the rest of the post, but you might want to go back and notice that you replied to a post of mine where I was posting in reply to someone else.  It has gotten us on different wavelengths.

Assuming 7 people can handle the needs of 5,000 to 10,000 people on a roleplaying server cluster, you are still looking at more than a $20/month subscription just talking gross salary and benefits.

Events also have many other problems associated with them, the most noteworthy being latency, customization to the players, participation, and additional art/engineering needed to pull them off.

Ahh, so it would seem. Well, what's a forum without some wavelength crossing, eh?

As to those 7 people and whether they could handle it, I see no reason why not. It's not like those 5-10K players are going to be online at the same time...ever. And  there's always those people being the brain children behind the events and pulling other devs in that are available to aid/play storyline figures as needed. And I don't think I'll jump into the  salary/benefits argument. Unless you are in the relative position in a company there is no way to know what that would cost. What I do know is that other companies in other service industries add "premium services" for a few dollars more and allocate staff members in a greater amount than 7-10 and manage ok. I'm sure an MMO company would as well.

As far as the event problems you mention, they aren't. They are convienent counter points on which to draw from for the purposes of an argument, sure. The only thing involved here is a little more work and effort on the part of a service provider to provide another level of service. None of the challenges listed are worthy of a "cold fusion-esque" mantel as some here try to make them out to be.

Enjoyed the article! Wow look at the responses!  Wonderful job Sanya.

I would consider myself a casual roleplayer. (SWG was a blast!). I love the depth that it can potentially add to a game.

At times it can be more than a little annoying. (try explaining IM's in a role play setting). Having a high level character is more challenging due to the fact that these people do not always place a high emphasis on learning game mechanics. Oh and lets not forget the oversexed, gender ambiguious, harlet that is always trying to flirt with you when all you want to do is get a guild that can RP and has some aspiration of raiding.

That out of the way.  There are times when I actually prefer standing at the local tavern engaging in improv to the nearest dungeon crawl.  I agree with what many of you are saying about establishing ground rules for social enteractions.  How many low level characters have come up to you as a role player claiming some sort of royalty and demanding subjectation?  

"Pardon me M'Lord, but can we please set some peramiters for our iambic pentameter?"  Rathbone.

But hey, sometimes you can even have some fun messing with those individuals.

 ~R~

I must say I relly enjoyed article. I am so called "Casual RP Player" and I have only 2 people on my ignore liste, and both of them are Ninja Looters *winks*

Anyhoo, I just dont get one thing... Why people who dont want RP choise RP servers... its like Hey I dnon't like Meat but I'l order Hamburger in McDonald... You dont like PvP? You dont pick PvP servers. You dont like RP? Why you pick RP server?

Most games in our time got servers marked as RP - Maybe people dont know what RP means, and think its some kind of cookie?

Originally posted by Horusek

Anyhoo, I just dont get one thing... Why people who dont want RP choise RP servers... its like Hey I dnon't like Meat but I'l order Hamburger in McDonald... You dont like PvP? You dont pick PvP servers. You dont like RP? Why you pick RP server?

I'll try to answer this... I don't really RP but I love the RP community, I find that most of the community is really friendly compared to a normal server and a pvp server usually has a horrible community. I don't usually talk to anyone while I play MMOs anyway though so no one would know that I wasn't an RPer so I guess 'the silent one' is my role =D. I also like RP servers because the audience has a more mature persona and are very helpful.

It is also very rare that I see people being utterly rotten to one another in general world channels, the community conversations do not look like I am reading comments on a youtube video (those are always negative)

So to all you RPers out there I sincerly thank you for helping better the experience found in the MMO world ^^;

Frankly, I think in early going many nonroleplayers pick roleplaying servers just randomly.  I live in Richmond, VA, and downtown's Main Street is one way.   You'd be surprised how often a car is going the wrong way despite all the signs.  And this a real life driver on a real life street potentially putting his real life in jeopardy.   Gamers aren't always even that alert.  And, generally, most players know that RP server rules are never enforced so they don't care too much.

Some definitely look for RP servers for the mature base of players there, whether it's an official or unofficial server, but not all by a longshot.  There are also a few bottomfeeders who'll head to RP servers just because they assume RPers can't compete and they'll dominate or be able to grief with aplomb.

Over time on unofficial servers most folks filter out who didn't really want to be there and more folks filter in who discover it.  There's a do-it-yourself mentality in these communities that lends itself to both tolerance and longevity.  Official servers seem to crash and burn as bitter disappointment in the developers on high and their failure to enforce rules sets in.  These places tend to get depressing and weaker as time goes on.

Sanya,

 Great article.

You officially win "Dana Massey". You may do with him what you will.

I will say this again.   I believe that if a game is designed right, people will unknowingly roelplay.   I have seen it in games like Planetside and EvE.   The very game seems to allow people to just be themselves pretty much and the game seems to create an atmosphere where people start to act and behave a certain way while playing and so do how they talk when in game.   The players start to create a game lingo and behaviors that is just part of the game and that to me is the best form of roleplay.   

In games like Vanguard or Lord of the Rings or WoW there is no real game mechanics in place to cause people to behave or to talk a certain way.   Only those that wish to really do try to roleplay.  Like how you greet someone or say goodbye and what not.   I do believe though that if these games added more fluff type RP game mechanics and did some other fine tuning to the game in what people can do and how they do it - you'd see more people roleplaying and they would just think it was part of the game.

Sanya did a good job with this article - though I think it was made to take the sting out of Dana's.   That's OK though.   Your's is the article we should have gotten in the first place.

Originally posted by Teala

I will say this again.   I believe that if a game is designed right, people will unknowingly roelplay.  

 

You are incorrect in this generalization. There are some people who will always want to make it more of a game and less of a world.

The guy who wants to name his character "Bloodelfpally" will not press "Random Name" and pick a world appropriate name, so unless you force him to have no choice other than pre-selected names he will pick something anachronistic like a hybrid of his class/race.

He named his character Bloodelfpally because every version of Sephiroth he tried, even S3ph1r0th was taken.

If they accidentally think like their character would, it would be more an exception to the rule. If they were playing a Human Paladin of Light, Ninja looting and Kill-stealing is just as probable as if they were a darker version of paladin.

Unless you hamstring the freedom they have to choose their actions and what they say, you cannot convince that type of player to think and do what their character would do.

The trick/goal should be to satisfy those players with a place to be "Turdpumper99" and grind while they talk about Chuck Norris, without irritating someone who wants to feel like they are part of the world and that the people around them are part of the world and who want to do and say what their character would do rather than try to somehow design a game that would force players to take certain actions only.

I don't like ninja looters, I don't like l33t speek, I don't like grinding.

However, they are plunking down their money to pay and entitled to play that "way". The best analogy I have is rather than convince everyone never to smoke, is to just let smokers have a place to enjoy their choice.

 I think the idea of requirements for an RP server are awesome, but I also don't think that everyone should be forced to accept them.

I think that in addition to a vanilla RP server,  if they ALSO made a "Non-Twink" RP server, where with a few simple rules about what items could be equipped, what kind of enchants could be applied and how much gold you could carry, they could cut down on a lot of twinking, that would also be an awesome choice. That Non-Twink server would require the players to all pretty much earn their own loot and have enchants that are reasonable for their level, and they could only participate in a PVP league for non-twink servers. Sure, they'd have less people in the que to play, but I think that aside from the name L3g0las, what probably ruins my fun most of all, is the 19s BG where its two kinds of players. The endless pvper who enjoys shooting fish in a barrel with his high powered one-shot kill and the rest of us who accidentally tried to enjoy the pvp battle at 19.

I am speaking about WoW specifically there, but it could be done in other games as well. WoW just has the more obvious Twink problem than any other game I've personally ever played. If you want to twink, fine..plenty of servers for it. But just give me one place, where I am facing people where its about skill, not his +100 HP enchanted hat.