Originally posted by Fariic

Lineage 2 is FFA. 
Just because cities act as safe zones doesn't mean I can't attack everyone and anyone.
L2 is probably the closest comparison to DFO as far as MMO's go.  Both are FFA pvp games with an emphasis on clan vs clan warfare and territory control.

I love Lineage ][.  In fact, I still play it from time to time.   The karma system in Lineage ][ prevents it from being FFA and you know it.    Players that are not red in L2, will not drop items.   Players that are red in L2 will.   Items in L2 are MUCH more difficult to obtain and imporatnt in L2 than DFO and you know that too.   In DFO, all players drop all their stuff regardless of what the karma system in the game has color coded them.   In DFO, players who are Red can use Chaos cities and have full acess to supplies and the like, if they don't belong to a guild with a player made city.    In L2 you have what, 1 chaos town with no trainers?

Vanguard has a FFA server.

It did.   After 99% of us stopped playing because of the coding nightmare, I believe they merged servers and the FFA was changed to RvR.   I could be wrong; but due to the horrid fate of that game, I really haven't kept up.   

Wasn't there FFA PvP in AC?  Never played, but I thought people were saying there was a server or something that was.

I didn't mean to suggest FFA PvP has never existed.   I was speaking to what's currently available within a reasonable period of time.     Siege Perilous in UO is FFA, and I highly recommend it, but it's a 12 year old game.  Yes, AC was FFA and the best game I've played next to UO, but only on the Darktide server and even there, loot drops were limited to number of items which varied by level, and could be protected by filling ones inventory with junk.

And I'm not wrong about hamlets. 
People have been making suggestion after suggestion about ways to make hamlets viable.
The last time I logged in was less then a month ago and most of the hamlets I went to were empty, with broken or entirely destroyed banks.  People are complaining about not being able to easily defend or maintain a hamlet, and that large city controlling clans are taking them over to keep them out of others control and then abandoning them; only using them as places to bind for seiges.

Just because your clan is using one doesn't mean that the magority of them are being used for there intended purpose or functioning properly.  In three months I came across one that actually had a resource node placed in a hamlet.  My clan farmed it empty on a regular basis and the hamlet didn't even belong to us.  This has been another big complaint by players, the inability to place things like walls to keep others out of the hamlets; making placing objects pointless as they are either farmed empty by other clans almost continuosly or destroyed on a regular basis, and requiring the controlling clan to farm endlessly just to maintane the hamlet. 

 

Rather than trying to debate you on this, as we have different views, I'd like to remind you that DFO is very much a player created content type of game.     The politics and territory focus changes over time.    The game that began with huge zergs forming is evolving.   Zergs have been defeated, new ones born, small guilds that were squashed have gained respect and are resurfacing.   After the initial E-Peen "I can own you" few months of play, more and more players and guilds are looking for quality PvP, not Zerg vs Zerg.  As such, Hamlets are becoming far more respected as places smaller guilds can call home, and finding them viable.

Regardless of what many on this forum claim, DFO is absolutely a Sandbox, and many of the complaints, outside of game mechanics, can be addressed in game by the players.    Many, including some of my own friends, don't want to deal with it.  Frankly, I think they've become soft from all the theme park instant gratification games we've been fed year after year.   Then there are a good number of my friends who love DFO, and we've gone out of our way to ensure we  play the game how "we want to" and not how others believe we should.   The fact we've been successful in doing just that, and leveling our skills not by macroing, but by actually fighting, is a testament to the fact this game is a Sandbox and is what you make it.

 

Cheers -CC

Originally posted by junzo316

This is funny.  In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back.  The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary.  Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.

 

It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....

junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun.  The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about.     The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy.   It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone.    There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.

Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start.  You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city.  All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.

-CC

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Originally posted by junzo316

This is funny.  In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back.  The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary.  Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.

 

It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....

 

junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun.  The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about.     The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy.   It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone.    There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.

Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start.  You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city.  All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.

-CC

Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank  rince and repeat.

Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is  use the enemy bank.  It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off  but  all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the  enemy bank to siege the clan stone.

Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.

Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game.  oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials.   Pointless.

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Originally posted by junzo316

This is funny.  In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back.  The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary.  Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.

 

It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....

 

junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun.  The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about.     The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy.   It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone.    There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.

Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start.  You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city.  All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.

-CC

My apologies, you are correct.  It was to acquire the shard, not the actual building of the city.

Originally posted by maxnrosy

Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank  rince and repeat.

Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is  use the enemy bank.  It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off  but  all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the  enemy bank to siege the clan stone.

Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.

Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game.  oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials.   Pointless.

If you are serious about having a discussion, just throwing stuff out like that with absolutely no context can be very misleading.   In your first paragraph you make it sound as if the ore, wood, stone, etc. one harvests magically goes from ones inventory to a bank.     Resource nodes one can access from the safety of town are extremely limited and give very little, with timers of 3-hours before they can be used again.    To gather resources, once MUST leave town.    When you are out of town, good luck getting back with your harvest; it's a risky venture, less risky if you have clan members and friends around to watch your back.

I agree with you that using an enemy bank to take or put stuff in is rediculous.   That should be changed.  No argument.

The last paragraph about folks claiming to be hardcore leaves me in the dark.   I didn't know there was some E-Core competition taking place.     DFO is what it is, and the aspect of it most people love is its wide open nature, ability for players to pick their own friends and enemies, as opposed to most games that are Realm vs Realm, and that death has meaning, and isn't just a quick trip back to a bind point.   I've outlined in a few threads/posts what the risks are.   If they aren't meeting your desired level for danger to have fun in a game, then let us know when you find that game.   I'd be interested to hear where you land.

-CC

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Originally posted by maxnrosy

Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank  rince and repeat.

Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is  use the enemy bank.  It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off  but  all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the  enemy bank to siege the clan stone.

Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.

Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game.  oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials.   Pointless.

 

If you are serious about having a discussion, just throwing stuff out like that with absolutely no context can be very misleading.   In your first paragraph you make it sound as if the ore, wood, stone, etc. one harvests magically goes from ones inventory to a bank.     Resource nodes one can access from the safety of town are extremely limited and give very little, with timers of 3-hours before they can be used again.    To gather resources, once MUST leave town.    When you are out of town, good luck getting back with your harvest; it's a risky venture, less risky if you have clan members and friends around to watch your back.

I agree with you that using an enemy bank to take or put stuff in is rediculous.   That should be changed.  No argument.

The last paragraph about folks claiming to be hardcore leaves me in the dark.   I didn't know there was some E-Core competition taking place.     DFO is what it is, and the aspect of it most people love is its wide open nature, ability for players to pick their own friends and enemies, as opposed to most games that are Realm vs Realm, and that death has meaning, and isn't just a quick trip back to a bind point.   I've outlined in a few threads/posts what the risks are.   If they aren't meeting your desired level for danger to have fun in a game, then let us know when you find that game.   I'd be interested to hear where you land.

-CC

Trust me  once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up.  when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat.  The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks.  Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot. 

Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there.

Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.

Originally posted by maxnrosy

Trust me  once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up.  when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat.  The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks.  Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot. 

Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there.

Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.

You make some good points.

Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes.   I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff.    Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out.   This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time.    Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads.    So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.

I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk.       There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.

The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from.  That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game.    It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death.     Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one.   I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^  lol.

-CC

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Originally posted by maxnrosy

Trust me  once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up.  when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat.  The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks.  Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot. 

Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there.

Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.

 

You make some good points.

Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes.   I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff.    Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out.   This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time.    Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads.    So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.

I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk.       There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.

The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from.  That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game.    It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death.     Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one.   I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^  lol.

-CC

Many things can be suggested to make it a better game.

Right now many people are complaining that each player ends up becoming a carbon copy of each other, while now extentions to spells were added,  its a matter of time that someone makes up a build and everyone follows suit.

With a game with so many  skills other rules should be applied to the game to actually make each character.

For example. If people would like to specilize in casting. Int can be a modifyer on which every 2 points of int reduce 1 str. Also raiding your magic skills high reduce the ability to use full plate gear. Thier dmg with spells can get a slight dmg increase at the price of a  melee dmg decrease.

Plate armor should give a reduction in movement or  take a high toll on stamina and only those who focus on melee weps and armor get a modifyer to counter the movement reduction and stamina loss. Ths means others can use plate but at a cost. 2 points in str can buff 3 points in sta and vit but lose 1 point in int and agi. losing 2 points in agi does cause a reduction of 1 point in vit and stam to balance it out.

People who focus in archery  can get a slight movement  but that doesnt give them the ability to sprint faster than other people when using leather armor or non full plate gear.   While they will sprint at the same speed as everyone else they  can get a bit of distance when not sprinting . 2 points of agi also buffs 1 point to vit n stam

now thats just thinkng out loud.  The easy way would be if your skilling up melee every 2 points it reduces 1 point of archery and magic. In other words make some skills reduce others so people can specialize, yet have the other abilities, just not exceed at everything.

Originally posted by javac   

yeah, cause blizzard hasn't been double-charging people to switch from EU to NA and back for the last 5 years... Oh wait, they have. blizzard don't even give you the option to transfer chars EU <-> NA either, you just have to buy a whole new client plus all the expansions again.

Blizzard doesn't allow the transfer because it is IMPOSSIBLE WITH DIFFERENT PUBLISHERS.

Unlike Darkfail, with the lying PR manager, who's just going to charge people for copy and pasting their information.

EDIT: Did anyone notice that the patch notes were smaller than the bullshit notice?

Originally posted by maxnrosy

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Originally posted by junzo316

This is funny.  In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back.  The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary.  Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.

 

It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....

 

junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun.  The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about.     The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy.   It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone.    There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.

Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start.  You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city.  All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.

-CC

Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank  rince and repeat.

Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is  use the enemy bank.  It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off  but  all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the  enemy bank to siege the clan stone.

Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.

Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game.  oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials.   Pointless.

While I am a strong proponent of localized banking and I do believe that it would increase the risk and lead to a better economy, I think you are making a rather broad generalization when you say the game currently has absolutely no risk at all due to the banking system. 

The reality is, unless you've found a way to carry your bank around with you in your backpack with you, you are going to run into gankers who can kill you and take your stuff before you get back to a bank. 

Again, just because materials are cheaper, it doesn't mean that they are free. 

Granted, this game is not as hard on the players as EVE.  But on the other hand, you have to remember:  it's NOT EVE.

EVE in a fantasy setting would be an awesome game, but I never expected Darkfall to be EVE.  Neither should you.

These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP  everywhere.

Great job on the expansion AV. 

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP  everywhere.

 

Great job on the expansion AV. 

the amount they added to the game barely qualifies as a large patch much less expansion.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP  everywhere.

 

Great job on the expansion AV. 

 

the amount they added to the game barely qualifies as a large patch much less expansion.

I wouldn't care if they called it tiddlywinks.  If what they added makes the game fun, then Darthraiden still makes a good point.

true and im happy that yall enjoy this game that much.

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP  everywhere.

 

Great job on the expansion AV. 

 

the amount they added to the game barely qualifies as a large patch much less expansion.

 

I wouldn't care if they called it tiddlywinks.  If what they added makes the game fun, then Darthraiden still makes a good point.

I am all for game improvements.... but when someone says "These huge expansion"  and is serious about that statement after reading the patch notes......... its a good patch, it sounds like it will help the game......... but in no world is that a huge expansion.
 

thats the major problem people who are watching the game have with these fanbois. Their choice of words. Its clear to everyone who isnt one of the 3-4 fanbois that this is a moderate patch, mostly cleaning up currently existing issues, with a few extra elements added. But the fanbois insist its the biggest bestest expansion to hit since ever.

Darkfall has some actual merits, but instead of pointing them out in a  civilized way they rabidly defend every single thing AV does. Its pathetic.

Darkfall needs to get its act together and release a free trial a few weeks before Mortal comes out. Otherwise they simply wont recover.

What Darkfall needs the most, is fans who play, but actually understand the issues in the game that caused people to leave. They dont need the rabid fanboi'ism.

Originally posted by steamtank

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP  everywhere.

 

Great job on the expansion AV. 

 

the amount they added to the game barely qualifies as a large patch much less expansion.

 

I wouldn't care if they called it tiddlywinks.  If what they added makes the game fun, then Darthraiden still makes a good point.

I am all for game improvements.... but when someone says "These huge expansion"  and is serious about that statement after reading the patch notes......... its a good patch, it sounds like it will help the game......... but in no world is that a huge expansion.
 

 

thats the major problem people who are watching the game have with these fanbois. Their choice of words. Its clear to everyone who isnt one of the 3-4 fanbois that this is a moderate patch, mostly cleaning up currently existing issues, with a few extra elements added. But the fanbois insist its the biggest bestest expansion to hit since ever.

 

Darkfall has some actual merits, but instead of pointing them out in a  civilized way they rabidly defend every single thing AV does. Its pathetic.

Darkfall needs to get its act together and release a free trial a few weeks before Mortal comes out. Otherwise they simply wont recover.

 

What Darkfall needs the most, is fans who play, but actually understand the issues in the game that caused people to leave. They dont need the rabid fanboi'ism.

Perhaps you are perceiving "fanboiism" where there isn't any.  It seems pointless to dicker over the semantics of what to call these game improvements.  Did they add stuff that's not already in the game... yes.  So in a sense it did "expand" on the game. 

I left the game a month ago because I felt that they needed to improve content.  I felt that there needed to be more depth to make the players participate in the world outside of tower radius.  Since then, I've kept my eye on their patches and what they are doing about content.

I think this current "game improvement" (whatever you want to call it) has brought me closer to coming back than any of the previous ones.  I'm really waiting to see a more complete review or player impression before making a decision. 

That being said, as someone keeping an eye on things, I do like comments such as the ones that Darthraden made.  They don't have the feeling of fanboism in them to me.  But they give me some information that I'm looking for:  that the game seems to be more fun and more populated.

To be honest, I feel that the people who argure about whether to call it a patch, expansion, game improvement, or whatever, and then throw around words like fanboi or hater if someone uses the wrong word only serves to stifle the posters who would otherwise give out decent feedback about the game.

Originally posted by steamtank

I am all for game improvements.... but when someone says "These huge expansion"  and is serious about that statement after reading the patch notes......... its a good patch, it sounds like it will help the game......... but in no world is that a huge expansion.
 

 

thats the major problem people who are watching the game have with these fanbois. Their choice of words. Its clear to everyone who isnt one of the 3-4 fanbois that this is a moderate patch, mostly cleaning up currently existing issues, with a few extra elements added. But the fanbois insist its the biggest bestest expansion to hit since ever.

 

Darkfall has some actual merits, but instead of pointing them out in a  civilized way they rabidly defend every single thing AV does. Its pathetic.

Darkfall needs to get its act together and release a free trial a few weeks before Mortal comes out. Otherwise they simply wont recover.

 

What Darkfall needs the most, is fans who play, but actually understand the issues in the game that caused people to leave. They dont need the rabid fanboi'ism.

Darkfall doesn't NEED to release a free trial before Mortal comes out.    DFO is actually out, has been receiving regular patches and recent feature additions making it a much better game than it was at release.  New players on the new NA server are going to have a much better time than we did when we started because the mobs and drops are far superior and the game is just much better on the aggregate.     Mortal is in the hype stage.    I hope it's awesome because I love good games, but it can just as easily be crap; who knows.

I don't know about the 3-4 fanbois you reference, but I do know about the 6-12 avid DFO haters who troll this board on a daily, if not hourly basis, posting negative comments on every thread.     At least a fanboi enjoys a game.   I'd take a room full of fanbois over a room full of hate mongers any day of the week and strongly agree with Journey, that the avid negative posters flooding this board with hundreds of the same points over and over and over, do syfle constructive discussion and information.

-CC

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Darkfall doesn't NEED to release a free trial before Mortal comes out.    DFO is actually out, has been receiving regular patches and recent feature additions making it a much better game than it was at release.  New players on the new NA server are going to have a much better time than we did when we started because the mobs and drops are far superior and the game is just much better on the aggregate.     Mortal is in the hype stage.    I hope it's awesome because I love good games, but it can just as easily be crap; who knows.

I don't know about the 3-4 fanbois you reference, but I do know about the 6-12 avid DFO haters who troll this board on a daily, if not hourly basis, posting negative comments on every thread.     At least a fanboi enjoys a game.   I'd take a room full of fanbois over a room full of hate mongers any day of the week and strongly agree with Journey, that the avid negative posters flooding this board with hundreds of the same points over and over and over, do syfle constructive discussion and information.

-CC

There are a lot of things that DF probably doesn't need, but what could a trial hurt? I think the main complaint you will see repeated by critics in these forums pertain more to AV then the game itself. Not to say the game doesn't have critics, but that AV's bigger concern is getting people to trust them enough to open their wallets. MO, on the other hand, has taken a very different approach to PR and community relations and as such, people seem more willing to risk a few dollars to give it a go.

A free trial would possibly snatch up those fence sitters and give them a feeling of investment in the game to the point that they would rather continue playing DF then go start over in MO. It's just good business sense. Surely, there are logistics to work out such as; how do you keep an alliance from using an army of trials as meat shields or similar scenarios.

Bear in mind, this is not a case of DF has these features and MO doesn't (or vice versa). It seems the audience for both games overlaps a bit and there a players who could be happy in either game. These are the players that DF should be trying to capture previous to MO going live.

Just my thoughts on it though. As with anything, your milage may vary.

Originally posted by ChinaCat

You make some good points.

Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes.   I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff.    Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out.   This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time.    Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads.    So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.

I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk.       There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.

The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from.  That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game.    It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death.     Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one.   I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^  lol.

-CC

Thats only because Aventurine decided to go the short route with their programming. Instead of making a hunter gatherer (ie: harvester) actually roam about the landside or go tree to tree, to gether their resources.....   like in Vanguard, UO, EQ2...   they decided that ONE tree is good enough.  Then they idiodically place a suitable tree in the middle of the town..!  (Why bother having harvesting in the game, if you're going to make it so easy and carebear...?)

Secondly, Global banks or regional... doesn't matter, because equipment doesn't matter, nor does death. Dieing is the best way to get back to your bank. Death has no penalty itself, so 3 months into the game and you have 20x replica's of your favorite armor/supply kit. Dieing is all about bank organization, nothing more.

The Full Loot in Darkfall is a pointless selling feature. When I quit the game, I had 12k in gold and 6~9 complete sets of armor and equipment....   and I rarely looted or was a money whore. So even just 2 month in, money and equipment was pointless. I had enough and was so abundant, they our banks couldn't hold any more, it was crazy.

No amount of Tasos will fixed a fundementally flawed game. It's a core issues that plagues the whole game.

Originally posted by mklinic

There are a lot of things that DF probably doesn't need, but what could a trial hurt? I think the main complaint you will see repeated by critics in these forums pertain more to AV then the game itself. Not to say the game doesn't have critics, but that AV's bigger concern is getting people to trust them enough to open their wallets. MO, on the other hand, has taken a very different approach to PR and community relations and as such, people seem more willing to risk a few dollars to give it a go.

A free trial would possibly snatch up those fence sitters and give them a feeling of investment in the game to the point that they would rather continue playing DF then go start over in MO. It's just good business sense. Surely, there are logistics to work out such as; how do you keep an alliance from using an army of trials as meat shields or similar scenarios.

Bear in mind, this is not a case of DF has these features and MO doesn't (or vice versa). It seems the audience for both games overlaps a bit and there a players who could be happy in either game. These are the players that DF should be trying to capture previous to MO going live.

Just my thoughts on it though. As with anything, your milage may vary.

I agree. A free trial would most likely sell a lot more account. It do cost some money for the bandwidth but with just a few more new players they would still earn money on it.

As I see it, the only reason to not have a free trial is if you have something to hide.