Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Sigilaea

Which brings me to my question for you. Let's say for a moment this game is amazing in every aspect. It surpasses your expectations in every way and it is so much fun, you consider taking some sick time to stay home and play it. Now let's assume this same game has an RMT vendor in one of the cities. Are you saying you would forego all of the fun you were having because of it? Would you stop enjoying your hobby because there is an NPC selling a "Super Mega Bastard" power-up for $5?

 

 

If I was paying a monthly sub fee and they introduced items that I wanted (whether fluff or progression-related) for additional fees, yes I would stop playing.  That's part of the reason I no longer play CoX, Vanguard, and EQ2 in fact.  Actually the services in Vanguard weren't even items that I wanted, but rather player-to-player sales, but I left over the principle (and I really loved that game, still miss it). 

Let the John Smedleys and Jack Emmerts of the world take a bit of a pay cut if the profit margins are really as tight as they claim.  Somehow I think they'll survive better than the customers they're continually looking to squeeze.

If RMT is going to be in the game, I don't feel like I should be charged monthly.  I have a real problem with the way this industry is bending over backwards to find new ways to charge the customer, and at the same time refusing to offer them anything new or substantially improved enough to warrant the extra cost.  I realize I'm probably in the minority on that, but that's just the way I feel about it.  It sucks that these guys are spending so much time and energy innovating on payment models instead of game mechanics.

 

I think RMT is coming to all games so you can protest but I believe it is inevitable.  So you are no doubt gonna stop playing MMOs with your attitude.  I think the distinction will be how RMT items fit with the rest of the game.  In free games the RMT items will be the games only revenue so they are gonna be heavy handed and make them part of the game.  IE you are gonna need to buy RMT stuff it won't be an option.  In pay games I think the RMT items will be optional and more perk items not required items.

Fact is all these games are businesses and the people running the games want to make as much money as possible.  SoE has clearly shown  that people will buy fluff items and it doesn't really adversely impact the subscriber base.    I know a few vocal people make a lot of fuss over it but generally it isn't having any impact other then to make money.  At the fanfaire they said the amounts of money from RMT was very significant and beyond expectations.

So it is coming and 2-3 years from now all games will have it.

and the gaming community will be worse off for letting it happen, I learned a long time ago that Humanity is mostly sheep.  You, the average gamer, will let this happen. So sad.

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by ethion

Personally I think that all games will be adding RMT systems over time.  I think that many of them will keep the RMT to things that don't have a direct impact on the game or that players don't need to buy to be able to play the game.  I'm thinking it will likely follow the path that SoE has set.  SoE has RMT in eq2 but it is mostly items like appearance equipment, furniture, pets, etc.  Mostly status items.  The only thing they sell that impacts the game are xp potions.  While these let people level up faster I'm not sure I see it as a big deal.  They give out quite a few xp potions and let people get a boost from having multiple 80s.  

The one area that they do give out useful items is in the LON card game.  Thats where they kinda cross the line giving out random useful items.  Again they are mostly cosmetic but some of them have useful abilities.  Things like cool looking mounts, illusions, feather fall, and now an item that lets you repair your gear once per day.

That said I don't really find any of these things have an impact on my playing the game.  The LON thing is kinda cool cause they give out free cards pretty frequently and you have a chance to get items.  I have gotten maybe 5-6 items over time.  It is kinda a nice little surprise.

But the bottom line is the RMT system as it is setup in EQ2 has no impact on game play that leaves people who don't buy things feeling like second class citizens.  As long as RMT system in pay games follow that model I'm ok and frankly I see all companies doing that in time.

This is VERY different then RMT systems in Free to Play games.  In these games they sell items that you must have to really compete or in some cases even be effective in the game.  I agree whole heartedly about any game that requires me to pay should not require me to do RMT to be able to play the game.  That would be crossing the line.

the statement in the interview mentioned "anything in-game".  Anything implies more than fluff.

There's a new post at the official forums, by Jack Emmert: 

"I know everyone has questions about microtransactions – what are they, how much are they, etc. I’m sorry we didn’t post something earlier; we’re really heads down in development right now. We’re going to release a WHOLE lot of information in the very near future about not just about microtransactions, but pricing in general. That said, here’s some basic principles about microtransactions to at least answer some of your concerns:

1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.)
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.

I promise we'll read this thread, note any questions, and answer them more in depth soon. Heck, I'll try to answer the easy ones today/tomorrow/this week."

Key word: "mostly".

Lame.  SO DAMN LAME.  

Sink or swim without me. As for it's coming so get used to it.

Not for me it's not. Day I pay for a box and a fee and this crap is the day I close down all MMO accounts and start something else. They can make money of an idiot because my mother didn't damn well raise one.

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Sigilaea

Which brings me to my question for you. Let's say for a moment this game is amazing in every aspect. It surpasses your expectations in every way and it is so much fun, you consider taking some sick time to stay home and play it. Now let's assume this same game has an RMT vendor in one of the cities. Are you saying you would forego all of the fun you were having because of it? Would you stop enjoying your hobby because there is an NPC selling a "Super Mega Bastard" power-up for $5?

 

 

If I was paying a monthly sub fee and they introduced items that I wanted (whether fluff or progression-related) for additional fees, yes I would stop playing.  That's part of the reason I no longer play CoX, Vanguard, and EQ2 in fact.  Actually the services in Vanguard weren't even items that I wanted, but rather player-to-player sales, but I left over the principle (and I really loved that game, still miss it). 

Let the John Smedleys and Jack Emmerts of the world take a bit of a pay cut if the profit margins are really as tight as they claim.  Somehow I think they'll survive better than the customers they're continually looking to squeeze.

If RMT is going to be in the game, I don't feel like I should be charged monthly.  I have a real problem with the way this industry is bending over backwards to find new ways to charge the customer, and at the same time refusing to offer them anything new or substantially improved enough to warrant the extra cost.  I realize I'm probably in the minority on that, but that's just the way I feel about it.  It sucks that these guys are spending so much time and energy innovating on payment models instead of game mechanics.

I'm with you in that minority.

Add me in that minority.

Those who want to be literally scammed for automatically generated virtual items that were supposed to be part of the whole game access, go on.

But there will always be a game suitable for me, and that me is the reasonably justified prices kind.

If you developers want money so badly, do different things like Guild Wars, that charged us for content and not monthly fees, and also gave lots of options like extra storage, character re-customization. I want content and not virtual e-peen with my money, and I don't want to have my fun vision obstructed because of the others huge e-peens.

 Nothing on Amazon.com about this

EDIT ; Nvm i see the 5 cryptic bucks, i just dodnt see the wings item. 

Originally posted by ethion

 

I think RMT is coming to all games so you can protest but I believe it is inevitable.  So you are no doubt gonna stop playing MMOs with your attitude.  I think the distinction will be how RMT items fit with the rest of the game.  In free games the RMT items will be the games only revenue so they are gonna be heavy handed and make them part of the game.  IE you are gonna need to buy RMT stuff it won't be an option.  In pay games I think the RMT items will be optional and more perk items not required items.

Fact is all these games are businesses and the people running the games want to make as much money as possible.  SoE has clearly shown  that people will buy fluff items and it doesn't really adversely impact the subscriber base.    I know a few vocal people make a lot of fuss over it but generally it isn't having any impact other then to make money.  At the fanfaire they said the amounts of money from RMT was very significant and beyond expectations.

So it is coming and 2-3 years from now all games will have it.

Only if the sheeple bend over and take it.  I guarantee if nobody subscribes or people quit games that introduce RMT, companies will take notice.  They aren't monopolies and we don't have to give them our business.  TBH if RMT is limited to fluff, then I probably won't care, but as soon as people can buy the Sword of a Thousand Truths with RMT...I'm out.  I'm not poor or cheap.  I've had 2-4 subs running for the last 4 years.

What Sony game even has a healthy enough subscriber base to form the opinion that RMT doesn't hurt their subs?  When was the last time any SOE game even published their subs?  SOE also said they got positive feedback over NGE (sorry to open that can of worms lol).

Originally posted by tapeworm00

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by ethion

Personally I think that all games will be adding RMT systems over time.  I think that many of them will keep the RMT to things that don't have a direct impact on the game or that players don't need to buy to be able to play the game.  I'm thinking it will likely follow the path that SoE has set.  SoE has RMT in eq2 but it is mostly items like appearance equipment, furniture, pets, etc.  Mostly status items.  The only thing they sell that impacts the game are xp potions.  While these let people level up faster I'm not sure I see it as a big deal.  They give out quite a few xp potions and let people get a boost from having multiple 80s.  

The one area that they do give out useful items is in the LON card game.  Thats where they kinda cross the line giving out random useful items.  Again they are mostly cosmetic but some of them have useful abilities.  Things like cool looking mounts, illusions, feather fall, and now an item that lets you repair your gear once per day.

That said I don't really find any of these things have an impact on my playing the game.  The LON thing is kinda cool cause they give out free cards pretty frequently and you have a chance to get items.  I have gotten maybe 5-6 items over time.  It is kinda a nice little surprise.

But the bottom line is the RMT system as it is setup in EQ2 has no impact on game play that leaves people who don't buy things feeling like second class citizens.  As long as RMT system in pay games follow that model I'm ok and frankly I see all companies doing that in time.

This is VERY different then RMT systems in Free to Play games.  In these games they sell items that you must have to really compete or in some cases even be effective in the game.  I agree whole heartedly about any game that requires me to pay should not require me to do RMT to be able to play the game.  That would be crossing the line.

the statement in the interview mentioned "anything in-game".  Anything implies more than fluff.

 

There's a new post at the official forums, by Jack Emmert: 

"I know everyone has questions about microtransactions – what are they, how much are they, etc. I’m sorry we didn’t post something earlier; we’re really heads down in development right now. We’re going to release a WHOLE lot of information in the very near future about not just about microtransactions, but pricing in general. That said, here’s some basic principles about microtransactions to at least answer some of your concerns:

1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.)
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.

I promise we'll read this thread, note any questions, and answer them more in depth soon. Heck, I'll try to answer the easy ones today/tomorrow/this week."

 

Key word: "mostly".

 

Well now, I guess they heard us.  However, there is the word mostly ... eradicate that word and say only fluff and I will reconsider buying this game.  that is my opinion.

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by tapeworm00

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by ethion

Personally I think that all games will be adding RMT systems over time.  I think that many of them will keep the RMT to things that don't have a direct impact on the game or that players don't need to buy to be able to play the game.  I'm thinking it will likely follow the path that SoE has set.  SoE has RMT in eq2 but it is mostly items like appearance equipment, furniture, pets, etc.  Mostly status items.  The only thing they sell that impacts the game are xp potions.  While these let people level up faster I'm not sure I see it as a big deal.  They give out quite a few xp potions and let people get a boost from having multiple 80s.  

The one area that they do give out useful items is in the LON card game.  Thats where they kinda cross the line giving out random useful items.  Again they are mostly cosmetic but some of them have useful abilities.  Things like cool looking mounts, illusions, feather fall, and now an item that lets you repair your gear once per day.

That said I don't really find any of these things have an impact on my playing the game.  The LON thing is kinda cool cause they give out free cards pretty frequently and you have a chance to get items.  I have gotten maybe 5-6 items over time.  It is kinda a nice little surprise.

But the bottom line is the RMT system as it is setup in EQ2 has no impact on game play that leaves people who don't buy things feeling like second class citizens.  As long as RMT system in pay games follow that model I'm ok and frankly I see all companies doing that in time.

This is VERY different then RMT systems in Free to Play games.  In these games they sell items that you must have to really compete or in some cases even be effective in the game.  I agree whole heartedly about any game that requires me to pay should not require me to do RMT to be able to play the game.  That would be crossing the line.

the statement in the interview mentioned "anything in-game".  Anything implies more than fluff.

 

There's a new post at the official forums, by Jack Emmert: 

"I know everyone has questions about microtransactions – what are they, how much are they, etc. I’m sorry we didn’t post something earlier; we’re really heads down in development right now. We’re going to release a WHOLE lot of information in the very near future about not just about microtransactions, but pricing in general. That said, here’s some basic principles about microtransactions to at least answer some of your concerns:

1) Microtransactions enable us to have a larger development team
2) Microtransactions are mostly aesthetic (costume pieces, pets, etc.)
3) If a microtransaction does have any sort of in game effect, then it can be also be earned in game.

I promise we'll read this thread, note any questions, and answer them more in depth soon. Heck, I'll try to answer the easy ones today/tomorrow/this week."

 

Key word: "mostly".

 

Well now, I guess they heard us.  However, there is the word mostly ... eradicate that word and say only fluff and I will reconsider buying this game.  that is my opinion.

At least number 3 makes it more OK than before. Sure, some people are gonna grind while others just take out their Visas and pay up, but at least it's not required. Even then, it should be entirely cosmetic stuff in the store. Otherwise there's no clear reason why not to go ahead and rush to the end game - missing gear from content? Just buy it. I hope they reverse their decision and make it entirely cosmetic stuff.

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by ethion

 

I think RMT is coming to all games so you can protest but I believe it is inevitable.  So you are no doubt gonna stop playing MMOs with your attitude.  I think the distinction will be how RMT items fit with the rest of the game.  In free games the RMT items will be the games only revenue so they are gonna be heavy handed and make them part of the game.  IE you are gonna need to buy RMT stuff it won't be an option.  In pay games I think the RMT items will be optional and more perk items not required items.

Fact is all these games are businesses and the people running the games want to make as much money as possible.  SoE has clearly shown  that people will buy fluff items and it doesn't really adversely impact the subscriber base.    I know a few vocal people make a lot of fuss over it but generally it isn't having any impact other then to make money.  At the fanfaire they said the amounts of money from RMT was very significant and beyond expectations.

So it is coming and 2-3 years from now all games will have it.

 

Only if the sheeple bend over and take it.  I guarantee if nobody subscribes or people quit games that introduce RMT, companies will take notice.  They aren't monopolies and we don't have to give them our business.  TBH if RMT is limited to fluff, then I probably won't care, but as soon as people can buy the Sword of a Thousand Truths with RMT...I'm out.  I'm not poor or cheap.  I've had 2-4 subs running for the last 4 years.

What Sony game even has a healthy enough subscriber base to form the opinion that RMT doesn't hurt their subs?  When was the last time any SOE game even published their subs?  SOE also said they got positive feedback over NGE (sorry to open that can of worms lol).

It is true that they will only do this if it makes them money without hurting subs.  But as long as they stay with the fluff approach it won't hurt subs and it will generate extra revenue.  So honestly any company not doing this would be running on less revenue.  Now they start selling items that are useful like weapons and armor and stuff that is better then what is in the game or even comparable and I'll be lining up at the door leaving just as quick as possible.

But if they follow the SoE model we see so far in eq2 then I don't care and probably even like it if it adds some revenue which turns into more content.

Originally posted by elderotter

shhhhhh, don't ruin the moment.

 

oh ok ;)

It's a game dumass, do you really need to show what a gutter-slime you are to embarass you're self on a forum related to hours of useless time spent?

More then likely you're time would be better spent being arrested in a white-supremeses rally or some other vile pastime that reflects on the lack of moral ethics you display on a daily basis.

Have a Nice day =)

I don't know why I'm responding to the Nazi but....Just because I can afford to pay for items, doesn't mean I enjoy getting ripped off. A monthly fee AND microtransactions is just greed and highway robbery. But if you enjoy being screwed, go ahead. I look for value for my money, and only those who don't have to work for their money can be so cavalier with it. The rest of us want to feel we are being treated fairly, and that has nothing to do with being cheap, just being smart. OH...look who I'm responding to. Enough said.

it's another way for the company to make money from ni haos.

and another way for ni haos to "launder" in game money.

The paranoia is pretty bad around here. There are two ways they could go about doing microtransactions.

1. They use subscriber money to develop costume pieces and other stuff that they try to sell to you. In this case you are essentially double paying for anything in the shop. That is greedy.

2. They use money earned from microtransactions to add things that otherwise never would have existed in the game. In this case the subscriber money has no effect on anything in the shop. The items for sale never would have existed without microtransactions. This is expanding the game without ripping off subscribers in any way.

Considering that we will never know the financials behind the system it really comes down to a 'glass half empty' or a 'glass half full' way of thinking about it. I trust Cryptic more than most developers and don't think they are going to rip me off.

Where as the sub fees they just shred and use for stuffing? Any game that has any sort of MT limits "free" content. And by free I mean content we paid 50 bucks for then 15 bucks a month there after.

the point is that with only p2p you can do x new things but if you have mt in parallel you can employ more people and in the end provide people with x new things through subscription plus y new things through mt. obviously you can argue against that by saying they will still only produce x and simply only provide x-y through subscription, but you have no way of knowing what they actually do without inside financial knowledge.

The game isn't even out yet and they are planning MT. how much of the original content will we be charged extra for now? Also, why are they so worried about extra stuff at a time when they need to focus on the standard stuff for release. Either way, it's fueled by greed and either it takes away from the dev team or they took away from original content to stock the MT store.