This is confusing news....Mythic helping Bioware...hmmm.   While we're at it why not let Kim Jong council Obama on how to reinvigorate our declining economy???  

Attention EA middle manager types....stay out of Biowares way! Let them create the game and you take notes.  If you want to send some MMO experts to help, bring someone from WOW or EVE online....They created Worlds....Warhammer was a soulless experiment in mindless emo-ness.

On a side-note, I have thorougly enjoyed this thread, here are some of my highlights...."Nerd Rage," ....."stevie wonder helping superman across the road"....and "emo sith and jedi totlers"...laughed my $$$ off.  Thank you all and well done sirs.

Mythic is likely to have a lot more experience in departments such as server architecture, net code, etc etc - what's all this whining about oO

WAR turned out to  be a dissapointment for some/many (over-hype anyone?) - doesn't mean Mythic is not an overall competent Game Studio.

Originally posted by Lasastard

Mythic is likely to have a lot more experience in departments such as server architecture, net code, etc etc - what's all this whining about oO

WAR turned out to  be a dissapointment for some/many (over-hype anyone?) - doesn't mean Mythic is not an overall competent Game Studio.

Haha...I've been trying to explain this point exactly, but too many people think Mythic took over BioWare is started developing SWTOR from scratch...it's not like BioWare's hand pick devs are not even in charge of making the game because they are now using Mythic for advice

I pray Mythic has no say in anything beyond perhaps server coding/architecture. Their game design skills stink (See DAOC and WAR).

Yes, I played both. From the start. WAR was a bit more polished, but in the end, endless PvP grinds? That's not an end game for me... DAOC? It was so horribly flawed at the beginning that I couldn't stand it for more than a couple of months.

The only thing I want Mythic doing for Bioware is taking cofee orders and lunch runs.

I assume that WAR is now losing money so as many people as possible are being taken off that are being reassigned to TOR.

Originally posted by eric_w66

I pray Mythic has no say in anything beyond perhaps server coding/architecture. Their game design skills stink (See DAOC and WAR).

Yes, I played both. From the start. WAR was a bit more polished, but in the end, endless PvP grinds? That's not an end game for me... DAOC? It was so horribly flawed at the beginning that I couldn't stand it for more than a couple of months.

Mythic's skills at coding server is even worse than their design.

Just see how servers CAN NOT handle a 100 vs 100 battle on a Realm versus Realm game... and how laggy it is, or rahter the server just crashes.

While other MMO's could handle more people fighting that weren't RvR games.

About all the negativity, being negative pays off these days, since only like 20% of the MMO's are successful since the release of WoW. That monster isn't done yet, there probably wont be any other game that will kill it, it will kill itself in time though.

Lets hope its just assistance with some specific MMO related coding stuff. Things where Bioware lacks the experience. As long as Bioware handles content and artistic direction, I dont mind.

Warhammer is currently the 2nd most successful MMO developed in North America next to WoW.

Bioware has never made an MMO. Most of their online experience comes from Neverwinter Nights where the bulk of the content was created by players. Though their RPG's are top notch.

Some other tidbits you may not know:

All of the technology used to build and maintain ToR has been licensed from other companies. The engine, the tools to develop the game, the GM tools. Even the customer service tools. Bioware didn't make any of it. And maybe this is a good thing as they were able to focus on just building the game.

At E3 it was stated that 1/3 of the games voice acted dialoug was complete. There is as much spoken dialoug in 1/3 of ToR as there is in the ENTIRE Sopranos series. That's huge.

DAOC was a great MMO....

Originally posted by archer75

Originally posted by hembot

Actually WAR sucks because it didn't live up to its own hype via failed promises and actually turning out to be a WoW clone. Many of us were expecting DAoC meets Planetside type of PvP. The Ebb and Flow. The strategy and tactics. The idea that you were progressing the campaign more than your own toon.

 Did you WAR fanbois ever even make it to a city siege? When totally awesome epic climax involves sitting in the same spot spamming AoE for 6 hours because only enough defenders to fill out 2/10 instances is what you are working for all those months you get the impression that any shared ideas coming out of Mythic are something less than a boon to the Star Wars IP.

 

That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons  of why people left .

The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying  on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat.  Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.

I saw that coming a mile away.

I smell a paid employee by Mythic here. You seem to be ignoring the fact that WAR drove a huge advertising / hype campaign with the tag line "War is Everywhere!" which means War is Everywhere on 2/50 servers (IR and DC when I quit), completely lopsided due to pop imbalance and You have to be on the 1 T3 or T4 zones in either server that isn't empty.

Blaming players is a cheap and worn out tactic. You can blame layout, keep design (repetitive hello?), lack of NPC's etc. I mean if you're going to sit here and tell me it's the players fault that they don't want to traverse the same stale terrain without even having to avoid patrols or sit staring over a cliff waiting for a dude to pop by every 15 min. you can just keep your opinions to yourself. Relying on players to make the game fun is the sign of a weak game for all but the most hardcore. The lack of fun didn't come from rolling pugs or getting rolled by premades. That's where player strategy and tactics come in. If you need tactics just to find a fight then the point stands that the developers don't know what the hell they are doing.

And if you don't think I gave it an honest shot there were many times I logged on with only an hour to play and it was either take the que for SP or go hunt in open RvR. I chose oRvR 99% of the time and at least 75% I didn't see anyone whether in WB or solo. So apparently I "made fun" but it didn't happen so it's my fault and everyone else's fault to. That's the most retarded perspective I've ever encountered but its one that really came alive when WAR came out. Why? Because people are so desperate for players to achieve for them what devs should have.

Originally posted by mcbride2156

This is confusing news....Mythic helping Bioware...hmmm.   While we're at it why not let Kim Jong council Obama on how to reinvigorate our declining economy???  

Attention EA middle manager types....stay out of Biowares way! Let them create the game and you take notes.  If you want to send some MMO experts to help, bring someone from WOW or EVE online....They created Worlds....Warhammer was a soulless experiment in mindless emo-ness.

On a side-note, I have thorougly enjoyed this thread, here are some of my highlights...."Nerd Rage," ....."stevie wonder helping superman across the road"....and "emo sith and jedi totlers"...laughed my $$$ off.  Thank you all and well done sirs.

Not to completely de-rail but I think Obama is doing just fine ruining our economy on his own. Although I hear the used game market spikes in these times. I should break out my WAR acct and try to sell it on Craigslist :P

SW and Trek and Gamer Nerds are pretty hardcore and have inflated egos attached to someone else's accomplishments. Which is why you don't want to get in a forum fight with them but you can take on 5 in real life. I know. I'm a gamer. 5 of us couldn't take on this dude who was fishing.

consdering I hated Daoc, and Warhammer, this does not bode well, they might have well said they were getting help from SOE.

I sure hope they reconsider.

Originally posted by hembot

Originally posted by archer75

Originally posted by hembot

Actually WAR sucks because it didn't live up to its own hype via failed promises and actually turning out to be a WoW clone. Many of us were expecting DAoC meets Planetside type of PvP. The Ebb and Flow. The strategy and tactics. The idea that you were progressing the campaign more than your own toon.

 Did you WAR fanbois ever even make it to a city siege? When totally awesome epic climax involves sitting in the same spot spamming AoE for 6 hours because only enough defenders to fill out 2/10 instances is what you are working for all those months you get the impression that any shared ideas coming out of Mythic are something less than a boon to the Star Wars IP.

 

That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons  of why people left .

The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying  on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat.  Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.

I saw that coming a mile away.

 

I smell a paid employee by Mythic here. You seem to be ignoring the fact that WAR drove a huge advertising / hype campaign with the tag line "War is Everywhere!" which means War is Everywhere on 2/50 servers (IR and DC when I quit), completely lopsided due to pop imbalance and You have to be on the 1 T3 or T4 zones in either server that isn't empty.

Blaming players is a cheap and worn out tactic. You can blame layout, keep design (repetitive hello?), lack of NPC's etc. I mean if you're going to sit here and tell me it's the players fault that they don't want to traverse the same stale terrain without even having to avoid patrols or sit staring over a cliff waiting for a dude to pop by every 15 min. you can just keep your opinions to yourself. Relying on players to make the game fun is the sign of a weak game for all but the most hardcore. The lack of fun didn't come from rolling pugs or getting rolled by premades. That's where player strategy and tactics come in. If you need tactics just to find a fight then the point stands that the developers don't know what the hell they are doing.

And if you don't think I gave it an honest shot there were many times I logged on with only an hour to play and it was either take the que for SP or go hunt in open RvR. I chose oRvR 99% of the time and at least 75% I didn't see anyone whether in WB or solo. So apparently I "made fun" but it didn't happen so it's my fault and everyone else's fault to. That's the most retarded perspective I've ever encountered but its one that really came alive when WAR came out. Why? Because people are so desperate for players to achieve for them what devs should have.

I wish I was paid! that would be great. However, it isn't so.  War is everywhere in that you have scenerios, you have orvr, keep battles, fortress battles, city battles. War is indeed in every aspect of the game. At least the gameplay option is there. It is a core mechanic.

Blaming players isn't a worn out tactic. It's fact. Though not entirely the way you think and I think you took what I said alittle bit out of context so I'll try to clarify. In a pvp game your content IS the other players. The people you fight and the people you fight with. That's a fact. You can't have pvp without them. No matter how you look at it you need those players to do the same content you are doing. Because as you know, you can't pvp by yourself.

However the game should be designed in such a way that it encourages people to do that pvp. I always knew from the beginning that as people leveled their mains and alts that eventually the rvr in the lower tiers as well as the PQ's would dry up. That's just common sense. At some point people are done leveling and want to focus on the endgame so you just won't have many people in the lower tiers anymore.

I don't know how they could revitalize rvr in the lower tiers. Maybe you have some ideas to offer? Perhaps a henchman system such as in guildwars? If there aren't going to be a lot of players in those tiers anymore you will need NPC's to help make up the balance.

I never said YOU didn't give it an honest shot. I said most of the people who quit did not. But I would say that's true for most MMO's.  Personally I hate learning a new MMO and tend to drop them fast and go back to what I was playing. Though I am good at seeing through the hype and what I want a game to see it as it really is. But most, not all, get hung up on their own personal hype, some personal vision they created a game to be after hearing about it that exists in their own minds. And then they bash it endlessly when it doesn't live up to that mythical personal hype(not saying that's you).

This game is coming along perfectly in my book and doesn't need ANY involvement from others who may pollute it with ideas that my corrupt its current direction.

Its the FIRST time I've not had a single gripe about the path a forthcoming game was taking - every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for and then due to the interference of gamers/publishers/bean counters/marketing it derailed into the same old tired morass that just about every other mmo has become with game play I refuse to waste my time and money on.

Allowing the ideas/ideals of a another developer whose concepts for an mmo deviates entirely from what Bioware has done thus far is a REAL cause for concern and I must say my steadfast resolve for this game is for the first time starting to become shaky.

I see another Asheron's Call 2 happening here.  With AC 2 struggling....Turbine won a contract to develope LOTR.  Turbine moved resources toward creating LOTR and totally shutdown AC2.  Could this be a sign for the end of WAR in a similar setting?

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Originally posted by hembot

 

 
Not to completely de-rail but I think Obama is doing just fine ruining our economy on his own. Although I hear the used game market spikes in these times. I should break out my WAR acct and try to sell it on Craigslist :P

 

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Really, so the fact that unemployment is skyrocketing is good?
The fact that obama's cabinet members said the stimulus packages were failures, that is good?
The fact that the government now owns more once private companies, that is good?
Here is a little fact for you government jobs DO NOT MAKE MONEY (this is not an argument about good vs bad gov., its a fact outright).
The creation of value is left up to entrepreneurs, china the communistic state understands this.
Obama's system IS IN THE DIRECTION THAT KIM JONG CURRENTLY UTILIZES. Governmental control and spending.
However, there are other states that formally used this almost solely its name is China. Wow how is China doing today?
CHINA IS DOING A BETTER JOB, AT JOB CREATION AND BUSINESS ENTERPRISE THAN THE US.
So if obama would take a few tips from the current state of china on economics i would be a happy man, because the more control individuals (as a people or state in whole [ie all of them]) have the more rich they are and the more rich their nation is and the more rich the lazy ass people who do nothing that leech off them are. This is an economic fact that is well established, despite more recent attempts of hack economist.
 
That being said i fear that these boards are filled with a lot of illogical ideologues. After all what western p2p mmos are totaly dominating WAR, wow ... I mean as # of subs go wars not that bad off. But no matter what it will never be good because the core of its combat system is whack.
But nothing was done to war to warrant hate of it, other than it wasn't the next wow. Did Mythic go through and massive change the game ruining it for the current players (infact they done a great job of upgrading and improving it), they didn't release a patch (nge nge nge) that made the game a new game, they didn't change the direction trying to balance 2v2 pvp ruining the pve experience over and over and dumbing down all high end pve content so those who don't want a challenge could do everything the people who do like challenges do.
 
 

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Originally posted by imershon

 

This game is coming along perfectly in my book and doesn't need ANY involvement from others who may pollute it with ideas that my corrupt its current direction.
Its the FIRST time I've not had a single gripe about the path a forthcoming game was taking - every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for and then due to the interference of gamers/publishers/bean counters/marketing it derailed into the same old tired morass that just about every other mmo has become with game play I refuse to waste my time and money on.
Allowing the ideas/ideals of a another developer whose concepts for an mmo deviates entirely from what Bioware has done thus far is a REAL cause for concern and I must say my steadfast resolve for this game is for the first time starting to become shaky.

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What ?
You mean you read like 5 articles about a game in alpha and its your perfect game?
Welcome to 30% of the other mmos already released. Don't believe ask a DF fanboy (there is only like 100 left in the world but hey, ask a former one. It is not hard to find them this forum is filled with them after all they were the shock troopers of mmorpg forums, now they are just a roaming band, unlead, and lost; but still willing to spit hate). Shadowbane, there is another one, lorto, AoC, vandguard, shall i keep type the number of games that sounded wonderful to hundred of thousands of people, when they felt that "every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for".

The reason the games "go bad" from when they are talkign about it towhen it goes gold, is not outside interference, the reason is because its easy to talk a big game but hard to produce one.
TOR is 100% in its big game category (this is not a flame, this is the facts). It maybe setting up to be a wonderful mmo or it may not be. Honestly, TOR has massive issues that people rarely address at this point because we (the fanbase/consumers /etc.) don't know all that tor is PLANED to be. But for point, what about pvp any mmo without a good pvp system will not be a wow killer, they can do well w/o one but not close and w/o a good pvp you lose many players right their. At the heyday of pvp in wow more were playing wow's end game pvp then the end game raids (they have made it so bad this is no longer true). Wows pvp was always bad tho. But in games like doac pvp was end game, and the best end game to date in any mmorpg. That is just one issue that bioware has not largely addressed, i believe they have some ideas but are still uncertain themselves what they will do pvp-wise if at all.
Ill finish saying don't take a used car salesman's word for it, test drive it yourself.

Hm.

I have enough faith in Bioware that they wont let Mythic screw things up.

They aren't blind, there are quite a few short-comings WAR had and they will not implement anything that will hurt the game.

But in all fairness, at this point they wont change the game as I'm sure they're closing in on closed beta. At the most this will just be addition PvP content. But Bioware is full of incredibly talented game designers, I have no doubt they'll make the best game they can either way.

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Originally posted by rebelhero1

 

...
They aren't blind, there are quite a few short-comings WAR had and they will not implement anything that will hurt the game.

...

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This is the proof of my point.
Bioware are already implemented things poorly and things that will hurt TOR. There is no doubt unless they are making the perfect game, which does not exists.
Most posters are posting in a way as to say that the game currently is very good will few faults, BUT THE GAMES NOT EVEN IN BETA YET SO THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY DILUTING THEMSELVES. As the current state of the game has issues (as it should).

Currently the CONCEPTS that bioware has shared about SWG sound good. Nothing more and this could mean that already the game is a steaming pile of ..... . It is probably not, but you don't know. Even those people playing it for development don't know ultimately the end product of all the components they are working on. Even in early to mid closed beta it is hard to tell what will be short-comings and what will be wonderful by the release date.
Im sorry if i am being aggressive, but come on people TOR in its current forum CANNOT be a god game (as its still being made, most of the classes are not even set in stone/released). So to make statements like Bioware did a great job on this game seems a tad preemptive.

Furthermore, you cannot say what effect mythic will have, but i can tell you this for certain:  IN GAMES WITH LARGE AMOUNTS OF CONTENT, BIG WORLDS, TONS OF STORY LINE, THE MORE PEOPLE YOU HAVE WORKING ON THEM THE BETTER.

So when i hear mythic is going to be working on it is say thank god because the chances that TOR will be a very good game just went UP by 20%.

And most logical people would realize this, so why has 90% of the posters on this thread missed it? Come on people if im attempting to make a epic game with a ton of concepts in it, you better believe that im gonna ask for and use a 20%-35%-50%-70% staff increase (even more so when they all have mmo game creation experience). Its a no brainer and here the mmorpg starwars and failed mmorpg haters cannot seem to understand that they were just given a gift. No instead they want to flex their e-disatification in the most illogical and misguided ways so that the entire community can know one simple fact, they didn't care for warhammer.

Truely sad, and i believe this thread proves why mmo companies should not listen to their customers, because they simple have no clue what they are talking about. (Some do and i figure mmorpg has more than not, but well this thread may be proof otherwise).

My friend, I was referring to them not implementing any shortcomings of WAR.

And perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to say peoples opinions have little value here. MMO companies should very well listen to their customers. Who the hell is going to buy the game if they don't?

And one more thing, Bioware hasn't released much information regarding TOR, you have no idea what they've put in it that could "hurt" it besides a few videos, planets and classes. And I think they're doing pretty good with that.

And no said they've "done" a good job, it's they're "doing" a good job.

We're just expressing how much we're looking forward to it and our support for it and our faith in Bioware.

I really loathe people like you, think you know everything. bah.

And please, quit making up so many statistics.




Good day.

Regardless, i think its a good thing, hopefully it will be :)