To templarga:

I'm not writing the game completely off. I first need to verify the validity of this thread claim via some official source. However, if the news check out to be correct, I refuse to P2P Pay to Play a game that also contains an item mall. I recently returned to EQ2 and quit soon after for this very reason. As far as I'm concerned, they can take my money via model A or model B, not both. Companies that opt for both take none.

To cukimunga:

RMT on top of a regular subscription will not happen no matter what. It will happen only when/if the customers of these companies tolerate it. Personally I'm not willing to tolerate it. As I said in other posts, they can bill me a subscription fee, which can be higher than todays standards (like EVE is doing) or they can release the game with no subscription fee and an item mall. Not both.

Originally posted by Senadina

I know it sounds awful, but we don't really know what "Cryptic Bucks" are. If it is RMT, why use some fictitious form of currency?  I am dubious but....I need more info.

Yes, let us wait for detailled info before we say anything.

Yes, it is vague. The reason I jumped right to RMT is because of the name actually.

In LOTRO the coins had an in game name, one that follows the lore (which I have now forgotten). They were also advertised to 'unlock' a special item in game.

Cryptic Bucks sounds much more like RMT currency. Like Aeria Points or GCoins. They are advertised to 'buy premium in-game items' as well. That sounds like a great definition of RMT itself. It may be the simple fact Cryptic typed it up badly and it is like LOTROs tokens.

There WAS an official forum post about this, I saw a thread pointing to it but apprently it has been deleted :/

Cryptic needs to stop being so... cryptic about thic Cryptic Buck.

PS. Yes, I had to use a pun, I mean look, it's right there. It wants to be used.

If RMT is the future it is a very sad future.  Players should never be allowed to spend more money to advance anything in an MMORPG.  It's just wrong, and makes for a very shallow and lame game.  I refuse to play any game with RMT that isn't simply fluff items.

Originally posted by ProfRed

If RMT is the future it is a very sad future.  Players should never be allowed to spend more money to advance anything in an MMORPG.  It's just wrong, and makes for a very shallow and lame game.  I refuse to play any game with RMT that isn't simply fluff items.

I agree 110% with you. This is where I draw the line with RMT. IF person X wants to buy the glowy hands power, or the 3 seat sofa or the pointy hat that looks cool, then by all means go for it. It is something they want and they are willing to spend the money, then they should have the right to do so.

However, the line is drawn when they can spend money on something that gives them an advantage over me in game. All of the sudden the game is no longer about player skill or anything of the sort, its about who has more money and is willing to spend it.

So I hate RMT that involves gear, new areas or zones, leveling potions, etc....

To give you an idea, I will admit to something that I am kinda ashamed of. I play the SIMS. There I said it. My wife wanted the Sims 3 and I kept peeking over her shoulder and got so interested in the game, I ran out and bought it. It is a fun game and I can waste many, many hours playing it. See, this should say something about the state of the MMO market.....a hardcore, former EQ, 10 year vet of MMO's is playing the Sims! :)

Anyway, they have Sim bucks. Its a lot like I-Tunes where you purchase cards or put in your CC info and can buy and download stuff for your Sims. At first, before my wife bought the game, I looked into it and was PISSED beyond believe. I mean it is EA so it should be expected but I thought they were going overboard with it.

My thoughts were that they would make the essential things you Sims need to survive (toliets, stove, refrigerator, bed), would need to be bought. Or they would give you only the crappy ones in game and you would have to spend Sim cash on the good ones.

Well the more I looked into it, everything you can buy is just simply fluff. It might have a different look or pattern but that is it. There is nothing that can really be bought that changes the game, its just all fluff. So it is okay in my book.

And actually, in the long run, its better than buying a $20-30 Sims "Stuff" pack every 3 or 4 months that has 90% of the stuff is crap and you don't want. At least with this, I get to pick and choose and you can but A LOT for $20.

I have the same feeling towards MMO's just 10000 times more (since in the SIms it is single player and you are not competing with others in a dynamic game world). If its fluff, its fine with me. If it directly effects the gameplay or helps to make one character better over another, then I take exception.

And I will say this right here and now : If the Cryptic bucks allow you to purchase game enhancements, where one player gets a decided advantage over another just because they spend some real money, I will go and cancel my pre-order. And I can guarantee you, I will not be the only one.

Haha I dabble in the Sims some also.  I agree 100% with Prof on this one as well.  A truly great immersive MMORPG with a massive world... the type of MMORPG that we dream of getting lost in will never be created with a RMT model. 

RMT are fine with me as long as they are limited to two things:

1) Fluff. New outfits, glowing special effects, whatever.

2) New content.  Things that would normally be in an expansion back but broken up and sold individually.

However I would not play a game that sold items, exp potions, or other things that give players an advantage going through existing content.

Also there needs to be good value for the cost.  If for $30.00 you would normally get 4-5 new zones in an expansion pack I will not buy a single zone for $15.00.

 I think it is a given that it is RMT.  And it's just a question of whether it is fluff or 'real' items.  I'm going to guess and say it is both, but end game items will probably better.  If it is not RMT, I think Cryptic would have said by now.  CO isn't PvP, so I'm not sure how I feel about it.  

I probably won't play long if you need to pay extra money to feel competitive.

I wouldn't mind if allfuture mmo's go this route. 

Well, I cancelled my pre-order. I am very dissapointed with the lack of clarification about how this RMT/MT will work, I can only see a couple of scenarios:

1). Game is riddled with ingame RMT which affects gameplay, Cryptic know this and so are not going to say anything publicly in the hope that they garner more box sales, knowing that there will be a large number of people who get disgusted with a sub+RMT and leave.

2). It is just stuff like character renames, a small selection of fluff/cosmetic items etc. Whilst I still hate this with a passion I may just be able to put up with it. But if it affects the gameplay in anyway then I'd be out. I'm guessing that this isn't the likely option, Crypic must know that if it is just fluff then they would be best announcing it now on the forums to calm the RMT anger down a bit.

Anyway, the point is that we're all left guessing and I am not preapared to put down any money till we find out what the crack is, I ain't falling for another Bill Roper turkey (I may be an ex Hellgate London Founder, but don't tell anyone ). Flipping Sub+RMT is going to kill MMO gaming, mark my words, if this takes of it will kill any hope of us ever seeing a decent MMORPG again, we will be left with mindless themepark crap MMO's  all designed around how to maximise RMT revenue, the gameplay direction will be driven by men in suits looking at financial forcast spreadsheets rather than games designers trying to make gameplay fun.

I love how people jump to conclusions and get all worked up without knowing any solid info.

Well, in a way that is Cryptics fault. They seem unwilling to say anything on their own official forums about this, yet Bill Roper is happy to go and do exclusive interviews with TenTonHammer and discuss these Cryptic Bucks, then the interview is put on an area of the site where you need to pay for a premium subscription to see it.

Even the thread on the official boards regarding RMT has this morning been 'moved' to the german section of the forum!

Regardless of whether you are 'for/against/not bothered' about RMT, this is just not showing much respect for the customers logging into the offical site for information. I'm still 50/50 on whether to get this game, I cancelled my pre-order until we get more info, it doesn't mean I won't get it if this all turns to be worrying about nothing.

well I am glad I waitied before ordering it. I will continue to wait until it is clarified. RMT games will not get my support.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Better get used to it.  RMT is the future of all MMO's, they are becoming too expensive to not try and maximize revenues

They already make a nice profit with the current subscription business model.  Anything else is just plain greed or a method to make up for shoddy workmanship.  Either way, companies deserve to fail if they make crappy games, not get to go on life support with RMT.

If this is the future of the genre, then they have a nasty surprise in store for themselves.  It's like pay-per-view charging you a base 10 bucks for cable access to a prize fight, then cutting out key parts unless you pay an extra premium.  No one is stupid enough to tolerate that kind of business model, yet they seem hell bent on doing it with MMOs.

They will end up alienating many current players and will only push away any potential customers who already view this industry as a rip off or waste of money.

Just because the secondary industry is making money off of hardcore / addictive style gamers, doesn't even remotely mean the main stream MMO gamer, let alone the main stream gamer would ever tolerate it as the primary business model for the genre.

One more game I will scratch off my list to try. Will not pay a monthly fee and have an item shop tacted on no matter what types of items are in it.

From the STO Forums by a Cryptic Dev in regards to Cryptic Bucks.

"Cryptic has never given customers the ability to bet better gear with cash... costumes... extra character slots... rocket boots... yes... but nothing that effected balance"

Since I found it on another un-nameable at this time forum I cannot provide my linky, by do a search for Cryptic Bucks on the STO and CO forums and you will find this quote bandied about.

I have ABSOLUTELY no issue with paying for some costume parts instead of unlocking them. They have already stated all the costume parts are in the game to be found and unlocked, my assumption is, this is for the lazy or overly specific heroes who do not want to unlock a costume piece. Buy it instead of unlock it.

Alexis

*smiles*

Originally posted by EricDanie

 "Premium in-game goods", HAHAHA.

I hope they explain that, will we see the first MMO with monthly fees and item malls? Way to rape people's pockets and generate money, it's sad to see MMOs going the make-the-most-money-out-of-players route instead of sticking to the service monthly fee or innovating with the asian hour plans.

Sorry, too late. EQ2 already have a lot of items in a shop. Nothing that really matters, mostly expensive junk like skins and furniture but it is still annoying.

And it looks like others are implementing the same thing, seems to me like MMO devs wants to ate the cake and keep it at the same time. But they better not sell anything useful because the same time they do that they will be ganked by all the F2P games.

As I see it, I will play Guildwars 2 for a long time once it comes out, no monthly fees or itemshops, just what the game costs when you buy it.